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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 8:25:52 PM
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I am a little unclear, you say he limits his sex to the genetil area only and he does this whiie watching porn? Or does he just watch porn to see how he feels about it?
I am love, I am peace, I am joy, I breath free, I thank the teachers, I am of the one, the same one as you
I am Neil |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2008 : 09:40:45 AM
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Hi Goddess,
quote:
Goddess:
Now, I'm quite lost as I don't know if he truly went beyond this desire or if he's still repressing it...
quote:
Ananda:
actualy what you just mentioned is very possible if it comes naturaly; A lot of examples are given like sri Ramakrishna and his disciple swami Vivekananda..
You can be sure that your husband is not in the Ramakrishna/Vivekananda class.
quote:
David:
Why would someone want to transcend sexual desire? There are all sorts of ways this can be wrong-headed.
Yes, for us lesser mortals, in the vast majority of cases, it is.
According to Elisabeth Haich, the cessation of sexual urge occurs naturally when the practitioner has opened up the higher nerve and brain centers and creative energy is being expressed from there. They just don’t think in terms of sex anymore.
Is that possible? Hard to conceive it.
She says the bhakti of an individual may motivate them to be celibate and practice yoga exercises in order to hasten this happening and they would go through a transitional period where sexual desire gradually diminishes to nothing as they successfully transform uplevel their expression of creative energy. During this time, the practitioner would be doing every thing they could to facilitate this upward movement. Think, "monk."
This does not include watching porno movies and/or being in a relationship and being insensitive to the needs of your half.
This would be the "wrong headed" part.
This effort will be futile if they are not totally honest with themselves with regard to their sexual instinct and what they really want.
However, she states that if this occurs when they are in a relationship, there is something wrong. Far better to live a normal healthy sex life based on true love in this situation and follow the left hand path. Per Mikkiji's example, this can be quite fulfilling.
(This is also described in Yogani's Secrets of Wilder book.)
And if they are watching stimulating porno movies, this will cause the energy to move into the lower channels again. Which shows the bhakti is not that intense.
Doubt you would find Ramakrishna/Vivekananda watching porn.
Why? Because they are so far beyond physical sex. They are no longer sexual beings. They are not physical beings. In their consciousness they are no longer a half seeking another physical being to unite with and become whole. They are not projecting their energy out into the physical world to find temporary physical completion. They have successfully redirected it inward to find permanent spiritual wholeness. They have become whole, they have found their completion inside.
They are completely disidientified with their body. Being a body just is not part of their self concept, if they still have a self concept. The notion is completely foreign to them.
They are no longer under the compulsion of the sexual urge because they have successfully channeled it into the higher centers. It is no longer projected outward in the vain attempt to achieve wholeness. They feel complete within. They are spiritual beings. For them, food and sex are only for the preservation and propagation of the species.
I would bet that your husband is not in this condition.
quote:
Goddess:
When I say to him: how can you watch porno movies, even if it's for understanding and feeling what happens inside of you, how it affects your energy? How can you watch these movies? I felt so offended...
Understandable.
quote:
Goddess:
To me, those movies are for sick people... Sex for me is sacred...and it's now clear that my husband is not able to understand that this "sex" has nothing to do with what I feel...
For him, sex is just sex, and it's only for reproduction...
I doubt it. If this is so, then why is he watching porn? Why does he have any attention on sex, if that is all it is to him?
Does he feel the same way about food? In other words, food is only fuel and building blocks for maintaining the physical body, just as sex is only for the preservation of the species. Nothing more.
Obviously, there is a lot more to it, when it comes to us people who still have varying amounts of creative energy flowing out into the world at the level of finding physical completion. We human beings are far more complex and have a lot more mental variables than lower animals.
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Ananda:
so to be honest seeing a guy that watches porn and not wanna have sex with a chick, be sure there is something wrong.
Yes, it doesn’t add up.
To be consistent, and most of all considerate, your husband should sever your relationship and give you the freedom to find someone you are more compatible with and stop watching porn. He should not expect you to be faithful to him. You can be good friends.
Has he said to you that you should feel free to do this? I know you don't want this. But this refraining from physical love should be a mutual decision, don't you think?
Or, he can decide that he would like to be back in in a physical relationship with you again and express himself to you on all levels.
Just my perspective for what ever it is worth to you.
Hope it works out for the both of you.
Best wishes, yb.
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Edited by - yogibear on Sep 20 2008 3:46:38 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2008 : 7:00:32 PM
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Hi
quote:
They are no longer under the compulsion of the sexual urge because they have successfully channeled it into the higher centers. It is no longer projected outward in the vain attempt to achieve wholeness. They feel complete within. They are spiritual beings. For them, food and sex are only for the preservation and propagation of the species.
I would just like to voice the fact that a so called "physical relationship" is still a relating between two spiritual beings of light - whether we are conscious of it or not. When both are conscious of this fact, the whole act of touching Hearts can include a reverent touching/coming together in a physical sense also. The act of Loving does not have to mean search for wholeness through the other. It can be a way of joyfully expressing the wholeness we are already conscious of. Our aloneness (joy and love and clarity) can overflow into this beautiful act also.
It all depends on how tuned we are to the expression of That in the "other" (ourselves)......to the extent that the love expressed come from the innermost shrine......is a true devotion......to this extent is the physical act pure. Just as pure as being a monk refraining from sex due to his Bahkti.
Although I have never had a chance to practise Tantra with a partner .......and as such am very inexperienced in this matter......I do however know the devotion within my heart. I was married for 21 years and devoted to my exhusband though he was never into spirituality (he thought it was ....for fools only)......
For years I sacrifised what I considered to be my spirituality to save the marriage (he was a kind man and a good lover and showed love activly through taking physically care of his family).....but the more my heart turned towards That ......the more tuned to the moment....the more resistance came up in him......and slowly.....the marriage broke. My devotion towards the preciousness in him was not enough to wake him. The "lacking" relationship itself was the biggest cause of this turning inwards....so I will always consider him to be my greatest guru. Since...through his mirroring I was made aware of the fact that it was my perspective that was lacking....and this was much more crucial.....in direct proportion to whatever I considered to be a "fault" of his.......
It took many years until the inner devotion towards That reached the momentum where it became evident that there would be no more growth if we continued to stay married. This momentum came when the need to be true to What Is in every small detail in life was stronger than the need to preserve the emotional, financial and physical security of the relationship. All of this evolution happened within the marriage. By then, my attention was on the Shine in everything including him. I honestly and truly loved him by then - whether he was spiritually aware or not. One day, after a beautiful lovemaking (his honesty happened as a direct result of the lovemaking...I find that beautiful), he voiced a desire to separate....he said that maybe we should have separated some years ago. But he just couldn't do it. So I did it for both of us. Knowing that without the awareness of the Shine, I would not have been capable either. The divorce happened 3-4 years after the rising of ecstatic conductivity. And I am pretty sure that one of the contributions to the awakening of the Kundalini was the fact that I refrained from "just sex" with him. It was not a mental decision to refrain from sex. I just simply couldn't do it (my body was capable , but my heart was not....my heart cried when I tried it....so I stopped). For the last years of the marriage this ment making love about once a year - if that. And when it happened it was initiated by a coming together through leveling with each other......I would manage to engage him in honest comunication of where we stood as a couple.
So - after all this - you can ask, how can I know about Tantra...?
I don't.....but I do know what it is not.
I may be naïve, overly trusting and not knowledgeable of the high states of the authors quoted in this topic.....but I see Tantra.....as both a tool and a celebration.
A devotion....that is expressed through reverence for the spirit residing in every cell of the physical expression of Love....that which we term "the body".
Touching That in the "other" is never unpure.....whether the touch is "physical" or spiritual. On the contrary. Everything is spirit. So I view Tantra as a practise that can strengthen and sustain the balance of the masculine and feminine qualities in each and one of us.
One day I might get lucky enough to practise it....who knows  ....life is - after all - full of surprises 
Going to bed now......night All 
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2008 : 09:54:47 AM
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quote:
It took many years until the inner devotion towards That reached the momentum where it became evident that there would be no more growth if we continued to stay married.
During those years I told him on three different occations that I would have to leave him if we couldn't communicate on more than the sexual level. The truth turned out to be the exact opposite: We left each other only when we finally did connect.....and this connection was a direct result of the connection to the guru within. When I connected with That....I became fully visible. And he finally saw that we didn't belong with each other any longer. I don't blame him for not wanting to end the relationship.....he shunned the consequences of our changed stand with each other because it challenged his way of living in profound ways. Our values were very different by then....
I wrote a song last week-end....of these years. It is called "There's still time".....it isn't finished.....I fiddle around on the piano for the right chords. But the making of the song......was like a healing touch.
So thank you, Goddessinside, for starting this thread |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2008 : 03:36:07 AM
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Hi Katrine
Thank you for your very honest account of this part of your journey.
Katrine said:quote:
It took many years until the inner devotion towards That reached the momentum where it became evident that there would be no more growth if we continued to stay married.
I'm not sure that I understand this. To say that there can be no more growth because one is in a situation which is demanding or not in harmony with one's own lifestyle or one's own journey seems inaccurate to me.
If for instance your exhusband had become very ill and required a lot of looking after - would you have left. Could you walk away from someone who was, say in a wheelchair and needed constant attention.
Personally I would find this much more difficult than if the person was in their full physical health.
Why is this? - is it because I would feel guilty at leaving an ill person behind to fend for themselves, whilst I go off and look for greener pastures.
Probably there would be guilt and probably lots of other stuff as well. Would I feel trapped - definitely.
Would I stay - yes, most likely. Would I grow in the staying - yes, definitely.
Can you give me a perspective on the difference between your scenario and the one I have painted - in terms of growth?
Thanks
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2008 : 2:47:49 PM
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To Yogibear and Katrine:
I'm gona be short: we had a conversation me and my friend about this x-movies thing...
According to what he said: he wanted to watch those movies to see what he feels, where his energy was being affected, and he also came to the conclusion that food was the major cause of this "low sexual expression".
He said that eating animal food takes the energy downward and it's easy to understand the behavior of people accordingly.
Again according to him, his energy came down, when he watch those movies, he felt a tension downward...
He concluded that food is the cause.
Yogibear, when you say: "Why? Because they are so far beyond physical sex. They are no longer sexual beings. They are not physical beings. In their consciousness they are no longer a half seeking another physical being to unite with and become whole. They are not projecting their energy out into the physical world to find temporary physical completion. They have successfully redirected it inward to find permanent spiritual wholeness. They have become whole, they have found their completion inside.
They are completely disidientified with their body. Being a body just is not part of their self concept, if they still have a self concept. The notion is completely foreign to them.
They are no longer under the compulsion of the sexual urge because they have successfully channeled it into the higher centers. It is no longer projected outward in the vain attempt to achieve wholeness. They feel complete within. They are spiritual beings. For them, food and sex are only for the preservation and propagation of the species.
I would bet that your husband is not in this condition.
Well, I think that my husband is in this condition, although it might be surprizing...
Anyway, today, things are clear to me:
No matter where my husband is today, on the spiritual level, I respect all his attempts and experiences, if those can allow him to grow...
My small "me" will get angry and frustrated if I know that he's still watching x-movies in my back again.
But today, I'm more mature and can overcome this negaative feelings (I think!)...
Also, I think I have much work to do with myself...
Instead of loosing time and energy on suspicion and negative behavior, it's far better to focus on my inner self realization. I think this is the best way to love my friend, cause it's out of question to think of anyone else... it's meaningless...
So, thanks to all of you, and my words today will be:
"I love you" is an illusion, it's false, we should say:"I'm sooooo full of love, would you like to share it with me?"
So each one of us should start from loving his self, and growing love inside to such a point that it becomes unbearable...
That's my wish today, at least for my self! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2008 : 3:51:16 PM
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Beautiful Goddessinside.
I really hope that things work out the way you explain them. It seems weird to me, but then again I seem weird to most people, so who's to say? I want to wish you the best in your endeavors towards self realization. Don't let anyone, including your husband take that drive away from you. Continue to use him as a mirror for yourself (as you seem to have been doing already) and you will continue to grow. You can't focus on HIS self realization, and he certainly doesn't seem to be focussed on yours, so I suggest that you as well, stay focussed on the end goal, and don't let him, or your emotions towards him get in the way. Your thread has helped me to see things I have been seeing poorly myself, so thank you for YOUR guidance. Best of luck. Keep us all posted!
In Love,
CarsonZi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 06:45:22 AM
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Hi Goddessinside
quote:
Instead of loosing time and energy on suspicion and negative behavior, it's far better to focus on my inner self realization. I think this is the best way to love my friend, cause it's out of question to think of anyone else... it's meaningless...
That is already a great realization
Just allow your emotions to surface.....don't repress anything. If you keep just noticing the suspicion...and whatever other feelings it might trigger in you......and in this way get to know it from inside out......what you call negative behavior (which is really just a knee-jerk reaction to alleviate the painful emotions) will gradually drop off. This is what understanding (silence/awareness) does.
quote:
So each one of us should start from loving his self, and growing love inside to such a point that it becomes unbearable...
That's my wish today, at least for my self!
That's beautiful, Goddessinside
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2008 : 08:41:01 AM
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Hi Goddess,
When I started to eat meat again, I noticed that I started to drive my car 5 mph over the speed limit again. I had more energy and I felt better.
In other words, I was more aggressive. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Speaking for myself, that is a good thing, right now anyways. It helps me to be more interested in the normal activities of daily living.
Good nutrition is very important.
quote:
Goddess:
No matter where my husband is today, on the spiritual level, I respect all his attempts and experiences, if those can allow him to grow...
Your husband is one very lucky guy!
Whatever form your relationship takes, I wish you both all the best,
yb. |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 04:09:44 AM
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Whatever form your relationship takes, I wish you both all the best,
Thank you dear...it have been supportive to share with all of you, my feelings.
Actually it was the first time I join an online forum.
My husband will travel to India in about 2 weeks to learn a new technique (Shoonya).
I will probably do the same in 2 months.
Till then, I send to you some of the beautiful sun rays from my country.
Peace and Love. |
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forced celibacy and mind games...
