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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Nov 30 2007 :  12:10:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hi all,

Just some quick questions on amrita, the beads of pranic oil that roll down my head from the crown when I am in deep meditation. I have heard it said that these beads transform the body into a divine body, and that they cause the chakras to open fully.

My first question is : what is a divine body?

Second question: does this process really suspend the ageing of the physical body?

Third question: is it good to cultivate the flow of amrita during the time we rest the attention in the crown (if we are doing that practice)?

Fourth question: is this the "something else" that sexual fluids, food and air are turned into in the AYP lessons?

Hope someone can help.

Christi

Edited by - Christi on Dec 01 2007 10:33:21 AM

Shanti

USA
4842 Posts

Posted - Nov 30 2007 :  1:39:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Fourth question: is this the "something else" that sexual fluids, food and air are turned into in the AYP lessons?


Yogani talks about this in his Diet, Shatkarmas and Amaroli book and he has posted something from his book here.

When there is sufficient inner silence present via the daily practice of deep meditation, and then the breath and body are brought into the process via spinal breathing pranayama, asanas, mudras, bandhas, and tantric sexual methods, we will notice three things occurring.

1. An expansion of sexual energy from the pelvic region upward, with part finding its way into the GI tract.

2. The natural retention of air in the GI tract.

3. The interaction of food with the sexual essences and air in the GI tract.

The natural combination of these three elements in the digestive system through an emerging higher form of digestion gives rise to a new substance emanating from the GI tract, which permeates the entire body. Much of this penetration occurs as this substance enters the spinal canal and rises up through the chest cavity to the head. The highly penetrating and sometimes intoxicating substance produced in the GI tract has been given many names. A name prevalent in yoga is soma. The word soma also refers to a hallucinogenic plant, which is not what we are talking about here. In Taoism, the GI tract, when engaged in this higher functioning, is called the caldron, recognizing the alchemy that is occurring there three ordinary substances (sexual essence, air, and food) being combined to create an extraordinary substance that is a key to the process of human spiritual transformation.

The process continues in the head, with further refinements occurring in the brain, which lead to another substance being secreted through the sinuses, down through the inside nasal passages, into the throat and then down into the GI tract again, where it joins in the process already described. This recycling of subtle essences leads to even more refined processing in the GI tract. The substance coming down from the brain into the GI tract is referred to as amrita (nectar) in the yoga tradition. It can sometimes be experienced as a sweet aroma in the nasal passages and taste in the mouth.

The overall experience of this combining and transformation of substances, and the recycling of the resulting essences in the body leads to large flows of ecstatic pleasure throughout the body, and the radiation of energy beyond the body. This is why those who are advancing in spiritual practices are sometimes said to be radiant. There is a specific neurobiology behind it. In yogic terms, the body-wide radiance of ecstatic energy indicates the rise of the mythical quality of ojas, which is a greatly enhanced manifestation of vitality that is easily noticed by others.
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Jim and His Karma

2103 Posts

Posted - Nov 30 2007 :  11:32:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm wondering how post nasal drip enters into this. I experience a healthy stream of thin phlegm coming down my throat from my sinuses when I meditate, and sporadically during the rest of the day when trapped energy in my head moves down (this sort of clears with it...it's hard to explain).

It doesn't feel like allergies or anything like that...it's a clearing out feeling, not at all sickly, and it leaves my sinuses and brow feeling super-vibrant.

At first, I'd taste the stuff, figuring it was nectar. But I'm pretty sure it ain't nectar. Though neither is it any sort of nasty phlegm (I used to have allergies/bronchitis, so I know what that's like!).

Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Nov 30 2007 11:33:04 PM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Dec 01 2007 :  10:28:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Shanti,

Thanks for your reply. It does sound like this is what Yogani is talking about... although he doesn't mention these beads of oil being secreted from the crown and rolling down the outside of the head. I have never experienced a secretion from my sinuses into my throat.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Dec 01 2007 :  10:30:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jim

quote:
I'm wondering how post nasal drip enters into this. I experience a healthy stream of thin phlegm coming down my throat from my sinuses when I meditate, and sporadically during the rest of the day when trapped energy in my head moves down (this sort of clears with it...it's hard to explain).

It doesn't feel like allergies or anything like that...it's a clearing out feeling, not at all sickly, and it leaves my sinuses and brow feeling super-vibrant.


This sounds more like the substance Yogani refers to as amrita in the DSA book. When it happens, do you feel like it is having a purifying effect on your body?
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yogani

USA
5162 Posts

Posted - Dec 01 2007 :  10:42:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi:

Radiance of spiritual vitality through the outer skin, which may or may not have a detectable physical component, is described by the term "ojas," mentioned at the end of the quote Shanti gave above.

"Nectar" (amrita) coming down through the sinuses may or may not have a noticeable aroma or taste. The sweetness of it tends to be more noticed by contrast in the early stages, and then fades into the landscape, like so many of our symptoms do as we continue to favor the practice over the experience.

All the best!

The guru is in you.
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Scott

USA
969 Posts

Posted - Dec 01 2007 :  11:11:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit Scott's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Greatly revealing topic, thanks everyone.
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Scott

USA
969 Posts

Posted - Dec 01 2007 :  11:15:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit Scott's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
A question which is more for Christi than myself, at this point.

Is it worthwhile preserving these beads of ojas, by rubbing them back into the skin?
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Sparkle

Ireland
1457 Posts

Posted - Dec 01 2007 :  11:29:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sparkle's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't experience Amrita myself, but wondered if the practice of Netti would help.?

I noticed the few times I tried it, that there was a clarity and a change in the energy around the sinuses.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Dec 02 2007 :  12:26:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani,
quote:
Hi Christi:

Radiance of spiritual vitality through the outer skin, which may or may not have a detectable physical component, is described by the term "ojas," mentioned at the end of the quote Shanti gave above.

"Nectar" (amrita) coming down through the sinuses may or may not have a noticeable aroma or taste. The sweetness of it tends to be more noticed by contrast in the early stages, and then fades into the landscape, like so many of our symptoms do as we continue to favor the practice over the experience.

All the best!


Thanks for the reply.

So are these substances (both ojas and amrita) basically effect rather than cause in terms of practices? Are they just an interesting thing that happens on the path to enlightenment, or do they have a useful function which is worth cultivating them for?

Christi
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yogani

USA
5162 Posts

Posted - Dec 02 2007 :  09:46:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi All:

Soma, Amrita and Ojas are aspects of the process described in the DSA book quote Shanti gave above. Each is both effect and subsequent cause, like so many things in yoga are. Everything in yoga is connected within us.

Once inner silence is present from daily deep meditation, then pranayama (kumbhaka particularly), mudras and bandhas are the main stimulants for the energy circulation and radiance described, as are tantric sexual methods in support.

Jala neti (nasal wash) is a helper once ecstatic conductivity begins, as are all the shatkarmas (see the DSA book on that). But shatkarmas are not primary stimulators of ecstatic conductivity and radiance, or of the components of it we are discussing here.

Regarding preserving or rubbing in secretions of the skin, that is a matter of personal choice. For similar reasons, some people prefer to shower before sitting practices rather than after. It is a minor aspect of practice which will not make a big difference one way or the other. Once ecstatic radiance is occurring and ongoing, it will happen regardless of any external treatment. It is not primarily physical anyway.

It is best to regard all of these things as aspects of experience (which they are) and continue to favor the core practices that have brought them about. That is the best way to expand on the process of human spiritual transformation. Zeroing in on particular experiences excessively, to the exclusion of the primary causes of them, is a sure way to stall progress. It is a theme we return to many times along the way -- favoring the practice over the experience.

All the best!

The guru is in you.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Dec 02 2007 :  10:28:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani

Thanks for clarifying all that. I have never come accross such a detailed description of this process before. It is certainly an amazing process when it is happening (as you say... intoxicating). But I promise I will continue to favour the practices instead of spending hours producing oil and collecting it in jars!

I have noticed that I need to wash a lot more often recently. Not just this oil coming out, but a strange grey substance comes out as well, especially from my upper back.

I wonder what will happen next?

Christi

Edited by - Christi on Dec 02 2007 11:04:23 AM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Dec 03 2007 :  10:12:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani,

I think I just found out what happens next. I read a quote from Shivananda (of Shivananda Yoga) and he says that as the process of the production of ojas advances, the yogi no longer produces semen. Is this true? Does it mean that I will not be able to have any more children?

quote:
According to yogic science, semen exists in a subtle form throughout the whole body. It is found in a subtle state in all the cells of the body. It is withdrawn and elaborated into a gross form in the sexual organ under the influence of the sexual will and sexual excitement. An urdhvareta yogi not only converts the semen into ojas, but checks through his yogic power, through purity in thought, word and deed, the very formation of semen by the secretary cells of the testes or seeds. This is a great secret. Allopaths believe that even in an urdhvareta yogi, the formation of semen goes on incessantly and that the fluid is reabsorbed into the blood. This is a mistake. They do not understand the inner yogic secrets and mysteries. They are in the dark. Their drishti or vision is concerned with the gross things of the universe. The yogi penetrates into the subtle hidden nature of things through yogic chakshu or the inner vision of wisdom. The yogi gets control over the astral nature of semen and thereby prevents the formation of the very fluid itself.

Sivananda
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yogani

USA
5162 Posts

Posted - Dec 03 2007 :  11:22:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Yogani,

I think I just found out what happens next. I read a quote from Shivananda (of Shivananda Yoga) and he says that as the process of the production of ojas advances, the yogi no longer produces semen. Is this true? Does it mean that I will not be able to have any more children?

Hi Christi:

While Sivananda made many contributions in the field of yoga, his views on sexuality tended toward extremist.

It may be that sexuality can eventually be totally sublimated to spiritual processes for those who seek that, but this is certainly not a primary prerequisite for spiritual progress, or for reaching an enlightened condition. Whatever happens is in the hands of the aspirant, not a foregone conclusion that can be projected on us by others, no matter what their status is perceived to be.

Spiritual development removing the ability to have children is not a risk for yogis and yoginis, since the desire for having children is the underlying cause of having them!

The guru is in you.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2007 :  05:55:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani

quote:
Spiritual development removing the ability to have children is not a risk for yogis and yoginis, since the desire for having children is the underlying cause of having them!


Well, that is certainly a relief!

Thanks for your help.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Dec 22 2007 :  06:09:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani,

There were a couple more things I wanted to ask about in relation to these substances.

The first is that sometimes it seems as if I can feel a kind of fermentation happening in my stomach, and that this later (often only seconds later) results in the production of ojas at the crown/ third eye. Am I imagining this, or is it actually possible to feel the manufacture of these substances in the body?

Secondly, during meditation I often feel like I am filling up, like my whole body is becoming full right up to the top of my head. Is this the experience of soma rising or just an unrelated aspect of meditation? When this happens it is sometimes accompanied by a pressure from outside the body, all around me, pressing in.


Thirdly, I think I found out something about how this may relate to the production of the divine body. This quote is from a gnostic website:
quote:
Meshach, Shadrack, and Abednego are the Physical, Vital and Astral Bodies, and the fourth that emerges, which looks like a God, is the Christ.


It seems that a new body is formed beyond the etheric and astral bodies? Is this true?

Christi
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Jim and His Karma

2103 Posts

Posted - Dec 22 2007 :  10:26:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Some info on the stomach thing: http://www.aypsite.org/51.html
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yogani

USA
5162 Posts

Posted - Dec 22 2007 :  10:34:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi:

Yes, it is quite possible to notice the inner processes going on, especially by contrast when they are moving to new and unfamiliar levels. Each new development in the neurobiology soon becomes part of the landscape and we notice it no more than we would our heart beating or any other automatic process in the body.

I don't make distinctions between spirit bodies or sheaths much these days (they are classifications of the mind), so can't offer much on this or that body. What I can say is that human spiritual transformation occurs in parallel on every level from gross to subtle, and this is what leads to the natural integration of abiding inner silence, ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love in daily life. The mechanics are not there to distract from the result. You know, not getting too caught up in the scenery, or what's going on under the hood, and all that.

Of course, scientific research will delve into all of this someday, but that's a different thing.

For most of us, it is enough to know that good things are happening as a result of our daily practices, and we will notice plenty going on to verify that this is so. As we move on down the road, we will come to notice that nothing is happening while everything is happening. That's when self-inquiry comes in handy.

All the best!

The guru is in you.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Dec 26 2007 :  03:36:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani,

quote:
Yes, it is quite possible to notice the inner processes going on, especially by contrast when they are moving to new and unfamiliar levels.



That's good to know, I can stop wondering if I just have a problem with parasites (I'm in India at the moment).

quote:
I don't make distinctions between spirit bodies or sheaths much these days (they are classifications of the mind), so can't offer much on this or that body. What I can say is that human spiritual transformation occurs in parallel on every level from gross to subtle, and this is what leads to the natural integration of abiding inner silence, ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love in daily life.


I didn't think you would comment much on the creation of new subtle bodies! I guess I'll find out myself one day. When I do, maybe I'll also be a bit cagey about it.

quote:
The mechanics are not there to distract from the result. You know, not getting too caught up in the scenery, or what's going on under the hood, and all that.


I don't want to be accused of looking under the hood too much, but it is good to know what is happening sometimes. When I first noticed the beads of oil coming out of my crown, I was quite cool with it. But later, I noticed that they don't follow the laws of gravity (always flowing towards the feet whatever the position of the body), and that did unnerve me a bit. So little is written about this subject in the literature on Yoga, that it is good to get some confirmation of what is happening.

Thanks again for your help.

Christi
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kadak

79 Posts

Posted - Jan 02 2008 :  05:42:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit kadak's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi, I come a little late in this discussion, but in order to work properly, the "nectar" (which tibetans) call "white drop dripping" must drip in the central channel, or the main point is missed. The result are called the "four joys", one for each chakra (throat, heart, navel and secret chakra). Normally, when the white drop comes at the lower tip of the central channel, you experiment clear light of the meditation (after having seen the 7 signs of the winds dissolution), then you revert it to go upwards, and you experiment the inverted 4 joys, which are higher. But anyway, the 4th "normal" joy and those after, are all a variety of "great simultaneous joy" which has to be melted with the emptiness of the clear light to produce the "great simultaneous blissful wisdom". Which is only the beginning of the very long process to buddheity.
Tibetans are much looking under the hood and I think it is the right thing to do, because many people find themselves enlightened at ""great simultaneous blissful wisdom", which in fact is only the first step.
I already wrote posts about it, saying that this nectar is cold, and diminishes the heat of kundalini (for overheating people).

Edited by - kadak on Jan 02 2008 05:58:23 AM
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Echo

United Kingdom
48 Posts

Posted - Mar 30 2008 :  12:15:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit Echo's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi peeps! This is a cut and paste of part of an email that I sent to Yogani.

Lots of strange things happen during practice, but I follow the AYP line and treat them all as "scenery". However, a couple of meditations ago, a couple of things happened that at the time I didn't give much thought to, until last night as I was reading "Kundalini Tantra" by Swami Satyananda Saraswati.

I did the 10 minutes of Spinal Breathing, then moved into the meditation. It seemed to go well in that thoughts were few, mantra like a faint pulse and there were those moments were you get to where there are no thoughts at all until you realise that you have stopped breathing. For some reason I then tried Khechari (just stage 1). Now, it's not something that I usually do and it didn't seem to make much difference, so I stopped it. Soon after that, I noticed a lovely clear feeling in my throat, like a very nice cool mint feeling, more like a vapour than a liquid. It lasted long enough for me to think, "Wow, that's nice. What is it? ..better get back to the mantra". Then my meditation kind of shifted. I felt as if I didn't exist, that yes the mantra was going on, but I wasn't doing it, what was I? I tried to explain it to my wife by saying that I felt like I was no-thing rattling around inside a brain. There were no thoughts, but I was there. Everything seemed clear, but I didn't know who, what or where I was!

So, anyway, after a short while, I moved on to my Samyama, then ended the meditation, and forgot about the scenery.

Of course, I gave all this little thought, but then I read on page 99-100 of "Kundalini Tantra" about Khechari and amrit. I then read what it had to say about the effect of amrit.

"When you sit for meditation the mind is perfectly still, it can not move and you can not think. There is shoonyata, an experience of total nothingness. If you are practicing mantra, you feel that somebody else is practicing and you are only witnessing it. ..........."

Then it clicked that perhaps the "abortive" Khechari, the "mint liquor" and the odd meditation were all linked.

I have only been practicing AYP for 4-5 months. Is it possible that I actually experienced a drop of amrit? Or was it just another odd bit of scenery?

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yogani

USA
5162 Posts

Posted - Mar 30 2008 :  12:22:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
And the reply:
--------------

Hi Echo:

Yes, that is a "taste" of the nectar cycle. If you search for nectar, amrita, soma and related terms in the AYP lessons and forums you will find discussions on it. Here is one I recall doing not long ago: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3204#27584 (check entire topic)

You are wise to let it go and carry on with practices and normal life.

Good things are happening. All the best!

The guru is in you.

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Echo

United Kingdom
48 Posts

Posted - Mar 30 2008 :  12:27:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit Echo's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
and my reply to the reply:
-------------------------
Hi Yogani

It's amazing when things happen that you can not discount as fantasy!

All the very best

Edited by - Echo on Mar 30 2008 12:27:53 PM
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Emil

Australia
138 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2008 :  04:10:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Guys,
A few years ago I came across a product called Amrit kalash Nectar. Produced by Maharishi Ayeruveda Company which is said to quickly change into Ojas in the stomach.. something like that.
Wondering if the association to the amrit nectar that you guys talk about as suggested by the product name really exists.

Thanks,
Emil
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Christi

United Kingdom
3642 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2008 :  07:08:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Emil,
quote:
Hi Guys,
A few years ago I came across a product called Amrit kalash Nectar. Produced by Maharishi Ayeruveda Company which is said to quickly change into Ojas in the stomach.. something like that.
Wondering if the association to the amrit nectar that you guys talk about as suggested by the product name really exists.

Thanks,
Emil



If I have understood the terminology right, Soma is the stuff produced in the stomach (lower torso) area, amrita is the stuff that drips down from the top of the head into the mouth/ throat, and ojas is the stuff that is secreted from the body, and trickles down outside the physical body. The production of soma is a prerequisite for the production of the other two as they are its transformed form.
Yogani has (I believe) hinted that one of the effects of amaroli is the increased production of soma in the stomach. I don't know anything about the product you refered to, but if drinking urine helps, then presumably other substances could also. Or maybe it contained someones urine. If it does, it certainly won't be the first time someone has bottled their wee and sold it.

Christi
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sushman

India
86 Posts

Posted - Apr 07 2008 :  05:55:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit sushman's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
It would be really funny :)

Paying for someone else's while one is wasting his own precious urine.
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