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UniversalMind
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 11 2008 : 7:47:42 PM
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Having read numerous articles and post's regarding mantra repetition on various site's and post's, i feel that i must give my advice, angle, point of view (which ever way you would like to look at it)on this subject. Some well meaning folk's go on and on about repeating the mantra intentionally! It is my experience through many years of meditation that if you begin the mantra naturally and gently it will undoubtedly repeat itself at regular intervals, there is absolutely no need for intentional repetition, this just keeps your mind thinking....as in intentionally...as in the level of the mind, not beyond! We are trying to go beyond the level of the mind!!!!! this is not natural meditation the mind is still ruling the roost, you are being fooled by the small petty mind! Using the mind to forcefully repeat a mantra is trying to get the mind to concentrate forcefully, you are heading nowhere fast! The mantra must and i repeat must be allowed to come thought at it's own pace and convenience, if not, your practice is a complete waste of time! I have intentionally made this post quite harsh because i feel so strongly about this issue. I would like controversial constructive argument because to be quite frank, a lot of people are confused about this issue. So let's get your opinions out there.
Good luck! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4375 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 09:14:02 AM
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Hi UniversalMind,
What a forceful post!
If you read the description of mantra meditation in the main lessons, you can see that it is about the intentional repetition of the mantra. Sometimes we find we are off the mantra, and then we gently, but intentionally come back to it. And when that happens, we intentionally, repeat it silently and inwardly again. 
I would not worry too much about being stuck at the level of the mind. Sometimes, when you are off the mantra, you will find that you are some-place quite different, and very beautiful. And then, when you realize you are off the mantra, you can pick it up again.
Christi |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4375 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 11:41:02 AM
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Here is the beginning of the story from:
http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
Yogani wrote:
"Once you have gotten comfortable, slowly close your eyes. You will
notice thoughts, streams of thoughts. That is fine. Just observe them
without minding them. After about a minute, gently introduce the
thought …I AM… and begin to repeat it easily and effortlessly in your
mind. If your mind wanders off into other thoughts, you will
eventually realize this has happened. Don't be concerned about it. It
is natural. When you realize you are not repeating the mantra, gently
go back to it. This is all you have to do. Easily repeat the mantra
silently inside. When you realize you are not thinking it, then
easily come back to it. The goal is not to stay on it. The goal is to
follow the simple procedure of thinking the mantra, losing it, and
coming back to it when you find you have lost it. Do not resist if
the mantra tends to become less distinct. Thinking the mantra does
not have to be with clear pronunciation. I AM can be experienced at
many levels in your mind and nervous system. When you come back to
it, come back to a level that is comfortable, not straining for
either a clear or fuzzy pronunciation."
After some time the mantra can begin to repeat itself automatically in the mind, but according to the instructions, the procedure of deep meditation remains the same- to come back to the mantra at whatever level it is at when we realize we are off it. If it is not there, then we think it, intentionally.
Christi |
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UniversalMind
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 12:35:27 PM
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Hi Christi,
I agree with the part about once the mantra is lost we can introduce it again gently! But this is a split second of recall and the mechanics of the mind mean that after a while it will do this itself anyway, due to the mind repeating. It is far from forcefully repeating the mantra which in my humble opinion is a forced concentration issue, even though it may not seem to be. We are trying to go (or not trying as the case may be)beyond the mind not get stuck in a mind made repetition. All we are doing then is splitting the mind into two!
Thanks again |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 12:59:05 PM
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Universal Mind,
Where in the above quote of Yogani's Lesson 13 does it say to "forcefully repeat" the mantra?
In Love,
CarsonZi |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 2:31:30 PM
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Hi,
Actually forcing the mantra is not a waste of time.It works quite well for japa but that is another ARGUMENT.LOL
L&L
Dave
p.s I'm not confused. |
Edited by - riptiz on Oct 12 2008 2:32:42 PM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 3:16:44 PM
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Universal Mind,
I arrived at the same conclusion that after the mantra has been introduced that "effortless" is much the same as "listening" to the mantra. I think everyone in their own meditation practice has a different way of trying to signal towards their experience with words but that it is fundamentally flawed to try to communicate one's techniques with words and hope for 100% fidelity. |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 6:52:33 PM
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From my experience, the mantra recall eventually becomes an Intent or Impulse of will, and that recalls the mantra at a subtle level, not at the verbal mind level. That's where the fuzziness of recall manifests, its not words or a sound, but a thought, a geodesic of mind.
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 9:51:51 PM
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Hi UniversalMind,
I quite agree with you. This can't be over emphasised. To my understanding "gently introducing the thought(mantra)" as yogani puts it would be an "effortless effort" to find the mantra in the mind or just a gentle check to see if it's present. If the mantra is present or there's a sign of it, then we're good. otherwise we should effortlessly find it. This can be as simple and effortless as waiting for the mantra to come because when we wait for something, deep down we know what we're waiting for and that would be a very fine pointer to the mantra.
This is the instruction that I used for years. However, recently I just follow the joy/pleasure that comes from thinking of my mantra and then I'm gone. I might be violating the instruction here I'm not sure.
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UniversalMind
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 04:00:34 AM
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Hi Emil,
I completely agree with you. This definitely cannot be over emphasised. I am certain that if done incorrectly then you are wasting your time. The "effortless effort" as Yogani puts it is to my mind 100% correct, but by the time people practice their meditation it becomes an effort of repetition when after all "The goal is not to stay on it". Not all people do this of course but from what i have read on various web sites etc an alarming amount do.
Hi Carsonzi,
I didn't say that Yogani said forceful repetition anywhere, i was making the point that this is what a lot of people do in their meditation regardless of whether they read Yogani's instructions or not. It is through effortlessness that we get results as shown in practices like Samayama, just letting thing's gently be and become. Jo-Self calls it an impulse of will which defines it exceptionally well. I would strongly advise anyone who may feel as though their practice is an effort to maybe let the mantra do them rather than them doing the mantra! Do it a few times and see if the experience feels more correct, they having nothing to lose, if it doesn't feel right they could always revert back.
Thanks all, god bless |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2008 : 6:10:41 PM
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@universalmind
who is letting it be effortless ;), it's about the same trick anyway. Forcing or letting, watching or not watching, find the one doing or not doing this. There is no real difference. What I experience is, the mantra iam is some kind of mental spinal breathing pranayama, so it's something that brings about stimulation and cleansing. While doing this, in between the mantra intervals, the contrast of movement (mantra) to nonmovement let you dive deeper into silence. And the main effects seem to come about after meditation while resting or within the day after the stimulation/cleansing of the subtle channels within the subtle bodies.
All these methods are surely not a direct approach like watch your mind, watch whats happening now etc. These are more direct, but in the end who is watching anyway. The combo of energetic stimulation and investigating the question,"what is true" seem to work very well. Heightened awareness opens the door to easy realization. Who is realizing, I don't know, what is remaining, I don't know. Surely not a mental information of realization, more the real stuff itself, awareness (needs to be selfproven)=P |
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BlissInTheHeart
Germany
1 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 05:38:16 AM
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Hi there to everyone !
I am new here, having just found this web site yesterday. So please forgive me, if i am writing here something that was written here by somebody already.
I am not a user of the "I AM" mantra, but i am steadily repeating Gods name, in various forms. This is a very powerful method of purification. I continue now my spiritual path, from which i took a "break" for more than ten years, and within two months i could see the effects in my character, in my consciousness, and even in my body. (consciousness has become very subtil, airlike; and my skin has become extremly purified. Some skarces have dissapeared by "miracul", and my character feels "free" now.)
One thing i want to add here, and i think on the top of this thread somebody has mentioned this too. The most effective way of doing japa (that is the steady repeating of a mantra) is by doing this with love. Ramakrishna once said, that it is possible to realise God only by repeating his name with love. Then, after a while, you realise that the mantra is repeated by itself. It is like the experience of a nice song that you cannot get out of your ear. Even if your mind goes somewhere else (but nevertheless you should return the mind as soon as you are aware of it!) you relise that the mantra still kept on repeating. And sometime you feel, that you are not alone with your mantra. It seems that a whole chorus is repeating the mantra together with you. When this happens, and you do this with love, then according to Ramakrishna, Aurobindo and Sri Chinmoy (only to mention a few) the effect of the mantra will be the most effective. |
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Mantra repetition
