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Naz
37 Posts |
 Posted - May 10 2007 : 08:44:38 AM
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In this topic I’d like to touch a number of issues related to the Sexuality, Sexual Stimulation and Sexual Desires (Wet Dreams, Emotional Energy Exchange) in the context of Spiritual Development.
The main idea I’d like to put forward:
Sexuality and its related phenomena are not conducive to Spirituality and higher Spiritual Wisdom in its pure sense
In simple words: Sex is bad, demonic, dirty, imbecilic and downgrading.
Nevertheless, sexuality and its related phenomena are there in our daily life and have their bearing on the minds of humans. Therefore, an understanding of their way of functioning along with their effects and causes is required to handle them competently.
Since this forum is mostly about the so called ‘sacred sexuality’, and nowadays one easily finds lots of literature (often based on the heritage of very ancient spiritual traditions) glorifying and extolling the spiritual side of sexuality, I’ll try and explain the spiritual bearing of the sexual emotions, the opportunities they provide for deeper spiritual insights and profound restructuring of the nervous system (which actually means the profound restructuring of the mind on all its levels), as well as the cost at which these effects are achieved and the serious spiritual drawbacks they involve, when produced through accumulation and sublimation of sexual energy.
For those of the readers who have regular sexual life (practice) and try to incorporate the Tantric principles into it, I can only approve it.
However, for those truly interested in the purest and most sublime spiritual experience, it should be remembered, that the sexual spirituality is the ‘lesser evil’, something one should be ready to fully (or almost fully, with the exclusion of rare special cases) cast away on some more advanced stage. To explain this, for example, if you can’t help following your sexual desires and have no power and purity of mind to get rid of them, better go the Tantric way. It is better to have the Tantric, spiritual sex, than have its lower forms. It is doubtlessly better to have the pre-orgasmic sex than simply waste your energy to get a temporary relief from the pressure of sexual energy. And it is doubtlessly possible (provided you have sufficient skill level of energy control) to stream the sexual energy upwards and have interesting results in terms of spiritual experience.
However, please mark it well: all the sexuality phenomena are ruled by the demonic group of energies. These are the energies capable of giving sharp insights and breakthroughs into the fabrics of the mind. But, unless properly balanced by the Sattvic energies, or by the Heavenly group, they inevitably enslave the mind and bind you to the darker, lower regions of reality.
Referring to the language of Astrology, stimulation of the sexuality related parts of the human body can be related to certain energies and energy combinations, which provides a clear view of the scope of effects sexuality is capable to bring about. Stimulation of sexually sensitive parts of the body will enforce the corresponding energies and promote all (not only the sexual) effects they are related to through the mechanics of our natal charts. These effects may vary from very bad through averagely neutral to quite good and positive ones. One should understand the mechanics of Samyama with celestial bodies to read and interpret them comprehensively.
For this short notice here it may be mentioned, that:
* Stimulation of male genitalia (specifically the Penis excluding the testicles) provides a boost to the Vrishcika (Scorpio) energy;
* Stimulation of the female genitalia provides a boost of Kumbha (Aquarius) energy;
* Stimulation of the anus provides a boost of Makara energy.
These three energies are the darkest and most Tamasic out of the 12 astrological energies. They are the most destructive, disintegrating and downgrading energies available in our world. Two of them correspond to Rahu (female vagina) and Ketu (male penis), and are very promptly characterized by the ancient sages as the vile demons attempting to devour the pure Sattvic luminaries (the Sun and the Moon).
It should also be noted here, that Samyama with certain astrological energies placed in certain Bhava positions is capable to make a person exceedingly libidinous and sexually virile, capable of accumulating powerful amounts of sexual energy and extending the sexual emotions and their related enjoyments and pleasures into superhuman (above ordinary human) dimensions. These excessive amounts of sexual energy are capable of producing far reaching breakthroughs in spiritual life, when directed to the upper regions of the mind world. Persons naturally inclined to this excessive sexuality and lacking the skills of other ways of energy control, may find the Tantra path very effective for their spiritual growth. I, nevertheless, would like to emphasize, that Spiritual Sex is no match for the more sublime and delicate techniques of spiritual growth. Given the proper knowledge and skills, a person having good, or excellent results with Tantric sex, would doubtlessly have hundreds times more profound integrated results, having learned to control his/her energy currents without involving (without emphasizing) the lower chakras and duality related (material) qualities.
This should be enough, I believe, for this message. More details can be provided further.
I can only add here, that having tried and tested I am happy to be on the path of celibacy. It has proven its immense value for the true clarity of mind and ability to extend and expand my vision, while retaining the balance of innocent mind.
Celibacy is not holding back the sexual desire. If you are struggling with your sexual desires and holding them back (avoiding the physical contact) to accumulate the energy, it’s not a true celibacy any more. Either you should correct your mind to remove the excessive dirty sexuality from it (and this is easily accomplishable with proper balanced Samyama), or maybe you should consider getting involved into some real sex and love emotions, in order to try what they can give you. I can assure you, they would not give you even the tiniest fraction of the bliss and serenity, a true celibacy is capable to provide. Yet, some people have to go a very long path to understand this. But remember always: True celibacy is, first of all, the celibacy of mind.
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Edited by - Naz on May 10 2007 09:04:15 AM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 09:58:33 AM
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I'm going to have to disagree based on every intuition I have, and being admittedly not very schooled on the esoteric canonology. However, your argument seems quite reminiscent of Christianity or other monotheistic religions, whose basis for the demonization of sexuality no doubt lies in the fact that reproduction was very demanding back then and they did not have reliable methods of birth control so premarital sex = good chance of having a kid you couldn't take care of and will probably die of the elements early on.
I agree with you that celibacy could and I'm sure does provide a serenity and "purity" of the mind that one who is often directed by thier sexual urges could only wish for...however, I do not feel sexuality is "demonic". That is to employ a dualistic notion...moreso, a very esoteric one. I do not think sexuality in and of itself is a bad thing, even non-reproductive sex. Like many things in this world it is something that is easily abused by human beings.
I admit sometimes I really do feel a tinge of something when I read about the Christian views of premarital sex and how sex creates an unbreakable bond between you and the person that you carry all your life...but then you could read the opposite elsewhere. There is something to be said about the average persons' need to discipline their urges if short of celibacy...but I think as with most things that provide pleasure they are not inherently good or bad. To imagine that God planted entheogenic drugs, provided us with sensitive tastebuds and the ability to cook, provided us with the orgasm, ect simply to "test" our "worthiness" of spirituality doesn't seem to make sense to me.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 4:20:12 PM
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Naz said:
In simple words: Sex is bad, demonic, dirty, imbecilic and downgrading.
Naz, I think you have to look at where that kind of talk is coming from. I don't think it is intellect, or spiritual intuition -- I'd say it is purely emotional, and we aren't talking about the best of emotions here. Let's put it this way: do people with healthy and fulfilling emotional-sexual lives talk like that? And if not, why not?
The priesthood of Christianity was full of talk like that centuries back. These were people who, as a result of the celibacy-imposing 'system' they were in, could not have healthy and fulfilling emotional-sexual lives. Since they were in charge of religion, they imbued the religion with negative emotional distortions with respect to sex -- distortions that are just never found in the sexually fulfilled.
I'm not happy to be giving a response that almost looks ad-hominem. It's not ad-hominem in a deeper sense though -- I wish you no ill and am not trying to win an argument with you. Rather, I don't want negative teachings like that against sex, rooted as they are always in personal psychological issues, to propagate and do the kind of harm that they did centuries back.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on May 10 2007 4:50:39 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 5:25:49 PM
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A controversial topic, for sure. David, while I agree with your post entirely, I'd just like to point out that sexuality is not sattvic...not even tantric sex. I think that may have been all that Naz was trying to say. Using words like "demonic" and "evil" does really mislead, though. |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 5:25:49 PM
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Sex, like certain drugs, seems to be such a grey area when it comes to Yoga and spirituality. I do not think deep down that there is a right or wrong on these issues, it's all about context.
Naz, if you would elaborate on your post in response mine and David's response, I would be interested in what you have to say on this issue. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 6:04:08 PM
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Scott said:
I'd just like to point out that sexuality is not sattvic...not even tantric sex.
Yes, I'd agree with that entirely too. Of course, sattvic is just an energetic classification in yoga, and non-sattvic doesn't mean 'impure', 'bad' or 'dirty'.
I think that may have been all that Naz was trying to say. Using words like "demonic" and "evil" does really mislead, though.
I think you are just being too kind to what she said and the way she said it. She made a little rant against sex, for whatever reason. You could say that there are some things that could be said with balance, about sex, which have some things in common with some things that were said in the rant. Fair enough.
Looks like the demons are out in force today, eh? 
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Edited by - david_obsidian on May 10 2007 6:09:21 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 6:33:21 PM
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David,
quote:
Of course, sattvic is just an energetic classification in yoga, and non-sattvic doesn't mean 'impure', 'bad' or 'dirty'.
I agree with that 100%. It's more like a spectrum, where tamasic is on one end and rajasic on the other, with sattvic smack dab in the middle. I'm not absolutely certain of this, because I'm not a yogic scholar or anything, but isn't sattvic always ideal to the yogi?
To be clear, what's ideal or detrimental to the yogi doesn't always correspond to what's right or wrong ethically.
quote:
I think you are just being too kind to what she said and the way she said it. She made a little rant against sex, for whatever reason. You could say that there are some things that could be said with balance, about sex, which have some things in common with some things that were said in the rant. Fair enough.
It's also fair to point it out when someone is being too dogmatic, as you did here. It does seem that Naz was being that way. I just always like to play the devils advocate for some reason.  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 6:47:06 PM
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Rape is bad, demonic, dirty, imbecilic and downgrading. Using sex to control people is too.
It is easy for people who have been a victim of such things to expand all of sex into that classification.
The other side of the coin is the bad, demonic, dirty, imbecilic and downgrading things that happen when people are coerced into believing that celibacy is the spiritual answer to these sex crimes. Read the news.
I think choosing a moderate, middle ground is more realistic for most people. If someone has so much bhakti as to be celibate for the right reasons, they probably won't think of sexual acts very much, talk about them, or judge them. Celibacy would come naturally, just as sex does.
The danger is in thinking celibacy makes you better than other people.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 02:10:05 AM
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Hm. Thank you for an interesting post, Naz. When I read your post, I could draw so many parallells to the "tantra - the map"-thread. I got the feeling you have read that thread and wanted to add info. Is that true, Naz, or is it just my idea?
We talked about the same issue there, but with other words. The road of leaving sexuality for higher love. That is what I see Naz's post is about, and that she favours the method of celibacy in mind, thought and action over the tantric method. That is actually exactly the dilemma I brought up in that tantra-thread, but with other words. Same, same but different expressions only, in my eyes. I also reacted on the words you reacted on, since I no longer believe in epithets like "good" or "evil" - rather I have adopted a perspective of "inhibiting or empowering spritiual development", and then words of that kind is not necessary. But I understand what is meant behind the words - sex is on the inhibititing side of the spectrum.
Actually it was informative to me, confirming my feeling that sexuality always draws you back to feelings, emotions, wounds and mind stuff - creating drama in my life. Even tantric sex. So I got very interested in the way of celibacy.
quote:
Celibacy is not holding back the sexual desire. If you are struggling with your sexual desires and holding them back (avoiding the physical contact) to accumulate the energy, it’s not a true celibacy any more.
This is making me very curious. What do you mean here, Naz? Can you elaborate? How can I without holding back sexual desire, and still have physical contact with a man go the celibate road that you recommend? Please, give concrete examples. What would my contact with a man look like mentally, sexually, physically, if I wanted to follow your model? |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 10:06:46 AM
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| I think Naz means that to be truly celibate you need to not even have the urge to engage in sexual conduct, it should come naturally. If it is something you actively struggle against and you still have the part of your mind saying "hey, go have sex" its not true celibacy, only in body not in mind. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 12:59:30 PM
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Hi Naz,
Thank you for your great description of the tantric path. I was just wondering though... I can't work out why you call this a criticism of sexual spirituality. You seem to be saying (if I read you rightly), that someone who still has the sexual urge and feels the desire to express themselves through that (to act it out) should do so, and that the best way they can do this is through tantric lovemaking (pre-orgasmic). But that when someone has transformed the energies to a point where they no longer feel sexual urges, or the desire to act on them, then a celibate lifestyle is preferable, celibate in act and in thought.
That does not seem like a criticism, but rather an affirmation.
Maybe you should re-title the thread "a discussion on sexual spirituality". Everyone on the spiritual path must transcend sexuality at some point, but words like: bad, demonic, dirty, imbecilic and downgrading could just make us feel guilty or sinful until we reach that point. In fact it is possible that the very association of sex with such concepts could create such negative energy in our minds that we never reach the point of transcending the erotic and rising into the ecstatic (as Yogani puts it).
How many priests or monks are trapped in this cycle. Suppressing their sexual feelings believing that they are of the devil, whilst limiting their spiritual development through that very act of suppression? Believing that they are doing something wrong everytime a sexual thought or feeling arises. That kind of attitude is likely to lead only to guilt and self-hatred, rather than to love and self-acceptance.
Why not simply say that sex is not the highest possible form of human expression and existence, and is not an experience of the pinnacle of human evolution, but whilst we still practice it (and feel it), we should enjoy it to its fullest potential, and at the same time, raise the energies of sex to transformational levels?
We might actually get somewhere beautiful. 
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on May 11 2007 2:02:30 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 10:06:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Naz
I’d like to touch a number of issues related to the Sexuality, Sexual Stimulation and Sexual Desires (Wet Dreams, Emotional Energy Exchange) in the context of Spiritual Development.
You said you intended to touch on the topic of wet dreams, but didn't. Would you kindly share about your current experience of wet dreams and how that relates to your views?
Thanks you very much for your consideration of my question. |
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 10:35:51 AM
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O.K. Thanks everyone for your replies. It was very interesting to read them. When people express their views on sexuality and related issues it’s actually quite insightful and helps understand their background better.
Out of the people who replied me there’s only Anthony who seems to be a new person to me and his replies look quite naive, from which I conclude that he wasn’t following the previous discussions I had here on Samyama issues. Everybody else has already spoken in my threads, it’s the same old people. I have an impression that there actually are not really so many active participants of this forum. It may be a few dozens tops. Don’t you guys think it would be a good idea for you to get together and meet physically once in a time with the people you talked to so many times? Think of it. An AYP Forum Party (or Conference, if you prefer that style)?
As to your answers…
Well, David, I thought you were smarter than that. At least I had that impression half a year back. I’m wondering, is it your ‘healthy and fulfilling emotional-sexual life’, that contributed to your mental development and spiritual sharpness so remarkably, or had I overestimated your discriminative level from the very beginning?
Don’t you feel I’m just playing with you? Giving some extra emotional flavour, so the dogs have something to bark at? Where is he actually, that loud and angry one, LeDog? Chasing the rabbits on the Fields of spiritual combat? Fighting the Ego (have I told you already, Ego actually enjoys to be fought with, it thrives when pushed hardly into a corner, because this ensures an opportunity for it to receive the maximum attention and engage into the never-ending conflict)?
Do you remember Mahesh’s words: “We don’t fight with the darkness, we just switch on the light”. That was actually quite a neat pointed one out of his aphorisms, very close to the Truth. I think Mahesh had a good start and his soul was a very high level one when he became a Guru. But the further he went into the material side of his expansion, the more he got tangled and degraded from his original spiritual level. His best and purest teachings were his first ones, made within the beginning decades. He also has a good skill to make a nice start for the things, even up till now. His best ideas are always to be found in his establishing speeches. Mars is his dominating energy: Tamasic and enslaving, but full of unshakable wisdom in its deepest roots. Sharply piercing into the new ways, balancing the luring half-truth with the candy wrapping of Maya, but always established in the origin. Have you traced the Drona’s fate in Mahabharata? That’s a very good example of the Mars dominated psyche…
But anyway, I’m going too far away from the topic…
So, what was it? Ah, the Sexuality?... I already feel somewhat bored with this topic… There’s so much of interest in the realms above it…
But, a few more words for the seeking ones. Why do some people find it so difficult to break free from it? Because the Tamasic energies called to life during the Sexual intercourse are very strong. They leave inscriptions on the stone of your soul which you would not erase in years and years (and maybe lives and lives) to come. Yes, it is true that your sexual partners stay with you for a very long time on the level of the mind. Especially your first sexual partners, as their sexual energy is untouched and innocent within the given lifetime (and they hardly have the energy control skills to reach to their relations from the previous lives; the God’s greatest blessing of forgetfulness is still on them, they don’t feel the weight of the incredible burden of millions of relationships they’ve already been into; they had been blessed to forget the habit of directing their energy into these relationships and have an opportunity for a new, better start, once more). Even if your time-limited physical contact did not seem to be specially strong or emotional, once you engage into physical sex with someone, there’s a habit developed on your Samskaras’ level for you to direct your sexual energy into connection with that person. You may realize your stronger energy connection only after some longer period of time.
And once you have this connection, your and your partner’s minds are interweaved forever, whether you want it, or not. This is a connection you’ll finally have an adequate chance to break free from only when you leave this body. Have never heard? Orgasm is like a little death (that’s why it is capable to give new life). Only the physical death can fully compensate and wipe away the energy connections an Orgasm creates.
That’s why if you are going to engage into sexual relationship, most religions recommend to have a steady relationship with one partner (or several partners), rather that changing your partners like underwear. There’s more to it than just Sex. If you can’t help going into physical Sex, try at least to make it your engine for your thoughtful, long-term and deep spiritual value based energy connections with the other humans (your wife/husband, your permanent partner etc.) It is the spiritual/emotional value, which counts the most, not the physical side. And it is the inner, spiritual value of any relationship, which provides the most opportunities for your evolution and understanding of the energy world.
However, for an innocent mind (free from the bondage of lower sexual energy connections) many avenues are open. Such a mind has a flexibility and freedom unconstrained, unchained by the infusion of other conditioned individual souls with all their dirt, material aspirations, unresolved spiritual conflicts, fears, crimes, stress etc. An innocent mind is free to fly with the Gods. Gods create and procreate by will power only. By the power of Holy Spirit (think of the chaste conception of virgin Mary).
Relating to my private experience, I was unfortunate to have willingly entered a few sexual relationships in my younger years. At that time I had no purity of mind and wisdom to realize what will it deprive me of. All of these few relationships became a heavy chain around my legs in my subsequent attempts to reach the higher and more sublime energy realms. I had to drag my former sexual partners all the way long together with me, their energy lines were always together with me in my mind, and felt more and more of a nuisance the further I moved. Some of their material aspirations became inhibitive of my energy allocation style and dragged me down and away from the path I was trying to follow. I had to repay the energy exchange debts my Sexual Connections had created thousand-fold to become relatively free only after years of celibate practice. Even now, when my mind is clear of the sexual thoughts, a distant echo of past is always lurking somewhere in the darker corners of my soul. It is enough for me to accidentally trip over a few sex-related Samyama combinations in my research to call the Sex related Samskaras of this life back to my mind and have to spend another day or two cleaning the waves of dirt they arouse.
Also, speaking about my individual private experience, I shape-shift my mind at the pace unreachable by ordinary human. Any deeper and permanent energy connection with some other normal person would be like harnessing a horse together with an automobile. I think such a harness would be a problem and a great slow down both for the horse and for the automobile.
*****
Relating to my Samyama threads, it might be interesting for those who follow them, that I wrote my last messages on Samyama (may 9th and may 10th) with Mithuna energy activated in the 11th Bhava (incl. to 12th), then I changed the location of the Mithuna object to the 7th (incl. to 6th) and wrote the first message in the Sexuality related thread. And finally this last message is written with the Mithuna in the 3rd Bhava (incl. to 2nd), which I activated since yesterday afternoon. The changes are obvious for those who do have eyes trained to see the energies. The remaining 5 energies of the Heavenly group (Dhanu, Meena, Simha, Karka, Kanya) remained on the same positions (i.e. 9th incl. 10th, 5th incl. to 4th, 10th incl. to 9th, 4th incl. to 5th, and Lagna incl. to 2nd in the above order).
Good luck.
P.S. Christi, thanks for your input, yes you read me well and correct, but you don’t read me fully. Try to read between the lines. Also, you’d make a good spiritual teacher, you have the ability to see and emphasize the positive aspects of a person’s expression. That’s a valuable asset. But don’t get caught in the illusion of positive. Go deeper, criticize yourself and others, root out the imperfections of your soul, cast them away, having brought them to the light.
Anthony, it might be interesting for you. I NEVER willingly used any drugs in this life. I don’t use alcohol, tobacco, caffeine containing products and haven’t eaten meat, eggs and some other types of food for over a 15 years. However, I can boast many experiences and visions the users of entheogenic (hallucinogenic) drugs would not imagine in their wildest drug-induced dreams.
The shamanic ‘path of the warrior’ and its philosophy was one of the theories I found useful and broadly integrated into multiple levels of my spiritual approach. At some stage, however, I had to review the original materials these theories are based upon and to take the elements which do work for me, while casting away those mistaken and faulty ones (there are, unfortunately, many of such misleading and mistaken elements in the renderings I had a chance to get acquainted with, like e.g. Castaneda’s materials). I know how many people read these materials and how they make it their excuse and guide for using hallucinogenic drugs. And I can only laugh (if not weep) at the results they achieve. In terms of spiritual vision they are being deeply pathetic… Any strong drugs (incl. alcohol and tobacco) are related to the tamasic energies and have all the side effects I outlined as related to the sexuality. |
Edited by - Naz on May 13 2007 11:29:58 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 11:27:38 AM
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Hi Naz - I think it's fair to say that the active members on this forum participate in the discussions that they find interesting, and ignore the others. I've only skimmed your posts, but have read enough to know that your opinions, and the expressions thereof, are not compelling to me. Call me naive, if you haven't already. As for members meeting each other in person, what makes you think that we haven't? There are some of us who are very close friends, and who are in contact with each other regularly.
The guru is in you, me, and just about everyone else. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 1:49:36 PM
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Human sexuality ranges from the crude animal, brutish instinct for release(which can be ramped up in the most perverse way by a human being) to the highest most sublime physical expression of love between a man and a woman. As humans evolve, so does their expression of the sexual urge. At some point, there is more and more expression of sexual energy on a higher plane in the form of creative work than on the physical, at which point it is technically no longer sexual energy. The result of this upleveling is not a physical child but a brain child, i.e., some type of artistic, scientific or philosophic contribution. Further still is prophetic vision and higher states of consciousness beyond the experience of your average garden variety homo sap. And finally, the crowning conclusion of human evolution, the godman or woman(Christ being best known but most misunderstood of these rare creatures in the western world).
So, in this particular paradigm of human evolution we go from mineral to plant to animal to human to genius to prophet to godman. Seven octaves of creative energy which most every human being has the potential to express if their physical equipment is intact. With each rise of expression there is a refinement and an increased frequency of the creative energy or life force. The basic mechanism of this transformation is the frustration or blocking of physical release by whatever mechanism, whether purposely or simply by circumstance.
When a spiritual state is achieved there is no identification with form, especially male or female or time or space. The spirit has no sex. It is a whole. Life is here and now and no where else. As a human being increases the vibratory frequency of their life force, they experience these types of states more and more until they become permanent, i.e., the point at which the resistence of the nervous system has developed and activated to where it can withstand and continuously carry the increased load of the higher frequencies. Creative endeavor is a means of facillitating this as when a person becomes absorbed in their work they rise above time and space and sexual identity into the state of being. However, when they stop working they return to normal consciousness. So, physical/intellectual creative work, whatever we are inclined towards, combined with concentration, meditation and other yoga exercises is a path to evolving into higher consciousness.
This is the right handed tantric path and evolutionary model put forth by Elisabeth Haich in her book, "Sexual Energy and Yoga." (See Yogani's' booklist) She advocates that most people are not ready for celibacy as they are transitioning from the human to the genius levels and should lead a moderate, pure sex life based on love for their partner, until such time that they feel ready devote more of their energy to less sexual expressions.
She states that the frustration of the physical expression of creative energy before a person's nervous system is dimensioned for this results in perverted expressions, the most familiar example of this perhaps being the behavior of some catholic clergy. She does not offer any left handed techniques in this regard. She states that as we evolve, we will feel less and less desire for the physical expression of creative energy because spirit has no sex and the energy is at a higher level.
She states that there is no prohibition on a person operating at a higher level with respect to a healthy expression of their sexuality, just that there is naturally less inclination. People who feel the urge to evolve more quickly she advises to go for it following their own inner guidance. She quotes Shakespeare's classic line, "Nothing is good or bad, only thinking makes it so" in regards to all this. She states that we should strive for a healthy, systematic development.
She addresses the topic of siddhis calling it white or black magic and states that if the chakras are not activated with a parallel moral development, they can create great havoc for self and others. She states that celibacy is required for the most powerful expression of magic.
It all depends on what we as individuals want.
This is echoed by Swami Vivekananda in his "Complete Works(Control of Psychic Prana)." "...in all the religious orders of the world that have produced spiritual giants, you will find absolute chastity insisted upon." I don't know if he was a left handed tantric. He ate meat and smoked cigarettes. The meat eating due to the circumstances of living in the west. Best I can tell from his letters to his brother disciples he never broke his vow of chastity. When they heard that he was eating meat and worse while visiting the west, he wrote them a letter telling them not to worry about him in which he stated that while he did eat meat, he avoided any physical sexual expression. I don't think anybody can deny the immensity of his spiritual power. See the "Complete Works of Vivekananda."
Some of your comments made me think of these things, Nav, so I wrote this little book report as food for thought for everybody.
To me, Yogani's system and Elisabeth Haich's system have alot of overlap. The core is spinal breathing and meditation. There are slight variations in technique and different exercises; for example, Ms. Haich teaches coccyx to crown rather than perineum to third eye and inhaling down and exhaling up(perhaps you can comment on that, Yogani). She is perhaps more explicit and places greater emphasis on the conscious use of creative work as a means to upleveling the increased energy flow generated by the preservation and cultivation of sexual energy. Yogani advocates this, too, altho more tacitly( please correct me if I am wrong, Yogani). Read the book, "Secrets of Wilder." Wilder likes to run alot(physical creative work). Yogani fills in the gap with left handed tantric practices for people in the transitional stage(most of us here I think).
IMHO,I don't think we need to puritanically condemn sex. It just needs to be in put in its proper place and perspective, along with an honest assessment of our own inclinations. I get a mixed message from you, Nav. You seem to do both. Sex is a very normal part of being human and is not, inherently, dirty or degrading altho a human being has the capacity to make it so. What a great thing it is to have left handed tantra for those of us who want to evolve and are still experiencing the physical urge.
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Edited by - yogibear on May 13 2007 3:28:45 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 2:00:10 PM
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Welcome to the forum, Yogibear 
And thank you for the great post! |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 2:11:44 PM
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Welcome to the forum yogibear.
Lovely first post
Thank you for sharing |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 3:31:56 PM
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| Thanks Katrine and Richard. Good to be here. |
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 5:45:06 PM
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Yes, thanks Yogibear, also from me. A great post undeniably. One of the few here I find little to add to. I concur with almost everything in it. I like its style of expression. There are some minor issues I might criticize, but I don’t even feel like starting, as the general atmosphere and the ideas you put forward are so well balanced.
I wish I could write that kind of posts… But, alas, my mind is not capable of that. My predominant tendency is the one of criticizing, and that’s what I do, more or less successfully. That is what helps me go on and improve myself. I am finding the ‘bad’ (or, more exactly, the ‘unbalanced’, ‘faulty’) features of my own mind and try to replace them with better ones. I also do this with all my relationships and people (theories, ideas, beliefs etc.) I encounter. I am more capable of destruction than of construction. That’s my damnation. I give a kick and get a kick. And I repeat time after time, that what I do is not the best approach and one should prioritize the light and positive side, while letting the dark tendencies gradually transform and die away naturally, but even in the process of telling it and preaching it to the others I myself go the path of predominantly fighting the ‘bad’ things, rather than giving myself up to the light. Oops! That’s the best I can do. And that’s why I like to repeat: “I am not a teacher. I have an overgrown Ego. I wish only for my own egotistic progress and I can’t help despising others and looking at them from above (even though sometimes I am really quite below)”. It’s like in that song Michael Jackson was singing long time ago: “I’m bad, I’m bad. Really, really bad...”.
Does it sound like puritan Christian in the bad way (self-torture in the name of God) to you?
The posts like yours are what I am looking for and what I need to balance my approach. The things I discover in my deep spiritual research are of no (or of very little) value to the most (if not all) readers of my messages, including those positively minded and trying to help me. These discoveries are mostly out of their range of spiritual study for this and most probably for a few next lives. What I do here is mostly speaking out (releasing) into words the thoughts I dwell upon, as this helps me structure and review my own logic and mentality. I also do some of the ‘playing’ along the way, to get the replies and energy response of the readers, reacting to the things they are capable to read from my messages. These things they do read have mostly nothing to do with the things I am really occupying my mind with, but regardless of that I’m getting some energy readings and have a suitable material for contemplation and experiments. Posts like that of yogibear make me smile happily and bright up the bloody, burning horizon of the mental battlefield I constantly dwell on. Finally, there are some well-wishing, balanced people I am destined to meet on my path, in spite of all the destructive tendencies coming from me.
Thank you, God, for such people. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 6:23:25 PM
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| Hey there Booboo! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 03:30:58 AM
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Hi Naz
quote:
I wish I could write that kind of posts… But, alas, my mind is not capable of that. My predominant tendency is the one of criticizing, and that’s what I do, more or less successfully. That is what helps me go on and improve myself. I am finding the ‘bad’ (or, more exactly, the ‘unbalanced’, ‘faulty’) features of my own mind and try to replace them with better ones. I also do this with all my relationships and people (theories, ideas, beliefs etc.) I encounter. I am more capable of destruction than of construction. That’s my damnation. I give a kick and get a kick. And I repeat time after time, that what I do is not the best approach and one should prioritize the light and positive side, while letting the dark tendencies gradually transform and die away naturally, but even in the process of telling it and preaching it to the others I myself go the path of predominantly fighting the ‘bad’ things, rather than giving myself up to the light. Oops! That’s the best I can do. And that’s why I like to repeat: “I am not a teacher. I have an overgrown Ego. I wish only for my own egotistic progress and I can’t help despising others and looking at them from above (even though sometimes I am really quite below)”.
Wow Naz, what a remarkably open and honest post! Something has really shifted eh? Maybe venus just came out of the earth's shadow and saw the golden light of the sun .
Thanks for being so courageous.
Christi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 05:04:37 AM
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Hi Naz
quote:
I wish I could write that kind of posts… But, alas, my mind is not capable of that.
Well......your heart just did, Naz 
Thank you for being so honest.
quote:
And I repeat time after time, that what I do is not the best approach and one should prioritize the light and positive side, while letting the dark tendencies gradually transform and die away naturally, but even in the process of telling it and preaching it to the others I myself go the path of predominantly fighting the ‘bad’ things, rather than giving myself up to the light
Yes...
It is the very choosing one over the other that keeps me locked in the inner fight. If I choose light (which is really just another mental procedure....it still keeps me stuck in my head), then I turn my back to darkness. I disown myself. How then, can the darkness be transformed.....if I keep it out of touch with the light? The light is not apart from me.....it is not over there somewhere.....it is always right here. Here - where I am.
I don't have to choose darkness either. But it is crucial that I allow it. Since I am both.
If I allow the darkness in me to surface......if I can manage to stay open and not cast away and replace myself with something I judge to be better (which are always mental concepts)......then the very opening up to myself....this very allowance.... also frees the light to shine on whatever it is that surfaces. The light is in the openness. Openness and light is the same "thing".
You already face yourself, Naz. You are very courageous. The facing is all it takes. You don't have to replace yourself with something else. You already are this light.
If I can manage to look and allow myself (all of it) - the light will see to the rest. It can't be helped!
Thanks again for sharing!
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 10:03:05 AM
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Naz said:
Well, David, I thought you were smarter than that. At least I had that impression half a year back. I’m wondering, is it your ‘healthy and fulfilling emotional-sexual life’, that contributed to your mental development and spiritual sharpness so remarkably, or had I overestimated your discriminative level from the very beginning?
Actually Naz, I think it's more underestimation that is happening now rather than over-estimation earlier. But the details of that are off-topic.
Don’t you feel I’m just playing with you? Giving some extra emotional flavour, so the dogs have something to bark at? Where is he actually, that loud and angry one, LeDog? Chasing the rabbits on the Fields of spiritual combat? Fighting the Ego (have I told you already, Ego actually enjoys to be fought with, it thrives when pushed hardly into a corner, because this ensures an opportunity for it to receive the maximum attention and engage into the never-ending conflict)?
Your original post isn't even directed at me at all. My insight for you is that you aren't just 'playing' with the forum in general, never mind me. It isn't as pure and good as you are pretending. Truth be told Naz, this is obvious. Why don't you actually start playing? Which means behaving as if people are not your enemies.
That is what helps me go on and improve myself. I am finding the ‘bad’ (or, more exactly, the ‘unbalanced’, ‘faulty’) features of my own mind and try to replace them with better ones. I also do this with all my relationships and people (theories, ideas, beliefs etc.) I encounter. I am more capable of destruction than of construction. That’s my damnation. I give a kick and get a kick.
Fair enough. In this case, you gave an undeserved kick to sexuality, and got a deserved kick in response.
If you are more capable of destruction than construction, I understand, and I don't mean that in a bad way. The practice of tearing down the inadequate can be very positive. But it isn't what you do it's the way that you do it. You have to choose your battles and fight them with skill. In the right place, at the right time, with the right attitude and motivation -- impeccably. That will make the difference between a real 'spiritual warrior' and a renegade soldier.
Anyway, let this skirmish pass us as a summer's cloud, and play on!
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 1:36:24 PM
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Thanks everyone.
There was a very polite and respectfully asked question from Bewell I haven't replied yet. So, let me deal with this first of all.
The Wet Dreams. Privately I had a very few of what can be called a full ‘wet dream’ and it was quite a long time back (actually mostly when I wasn’t a mature person yet). However, when (from time to time) I closely energetically relate with people who have excessive sexual energy and related thoughts, I do sometimes get somewhat overwhelmed with their energy and get an echo of that kind of experience. Since the mental plane is releasing and expressing the phenomena of the day life during the Dream State, in such cases I occasionally get what can be called an echo of a wet dream. I haven’t had an echo which I wouldn’t be able to deal with and calm down relatively easily within a few hours since many years. Within these years there were a few people I met who had very strong sexual energy. I felt their energy (was touched by it) and some extra excitement during a maximum of few days, but it never was even remotely capable to significantly influence any of my deeper energy levels and become a lasting phenomenon against my will. It went away, just like a passing breeze.
On the other hand, in my younger years, as I mentioned, I had a few sexual relationships I willingly entered. I did this mostly for experimental purposes and I always knew these relationships are not going to last for long. It was my mistake to have entered them (as from my current point of view). All of my partners were trying to extend and continue these relationships with all the efforts they were able to apply. I always felt bad afterwards about having given them a hope of something I knew in advance they would never receive from me – a lasting loving emotional relationship. During these relationships my mind was actually focused on the sexual issues and sexual energies for some time (a few of my younger years roughly, with maybe several months of more intense focus on certain persons). I used to feel and to intentionally strengthen and shape out the emotional energy exchange and sexual flavours I wished to add to my relationship with a certain partner (also during the Dream State). But in these cases I always had a level of energy control which allowed me to handle my sexual energy exchange the way I wanted. Be it during the Waking, or Dreaming, I never had the energy so much out of control as to get it into an undesired ‘Wet Dream’. I was able to direct all my energy to the sexual exchange (mostly remote, not physical sexual exchange, which allows accumulating considerable amounts of sexual energy in the related centers and makes the following time-limited physical contact explode with emotions and sharp experiences).
Generally to someone on ascetic path (practicing celibacy) and having the problem of the ‘Wet Dreams’ I can tell, that, in my current opinion, if the sexual energy overpowers you so much you can’t handle it in your dream state, it is still much better to have a ‘release’ in the ‘Wet Dream’, rather than engage into physical contact. A ‘release’ in the ‘Wet Dream’ is not a good thing and is a sign you have to work on your energy control skills, but it’s much easier to come over and balance out than a physical relationship with a real person. It does not create those deep and lasting Samskaras a real sex would bring about. It remains purely on the energy level, and can be fully compensated for on this level.
In the Hindu ascetic tradition you may find many references to great ascetics being eventually overpowered by the sexual energies of the higher levels during their ascetic practice. Like Visvamitra being seduced by apsara (the heavenly girl and danceress) Menaka. Or the Story of the Birth of Rishyasringa (the son of Vibhandak, the great ascetic), who was born from the semen released by his ascetic father under the influence of an apsara in the form of a deer female.
A general thread can be figured throughout the ascetic approach: go the path of celibacy and do your best to keep your mind pure and chaste; but if you are to lose the battle of balance with some stronger unchaste energies, fight your battle till the end, try and make conclusions and observations about why and how you'd lost your balance (or eventually your semen), so you can improve your results the next time. If you go this way, no extra sin of your own will be there to blame you for. The main thing is to move on the path you’ve chosen with all of your heart and mind intent on it. It’s not about winning or losing a single battle or two. It’s about gaining the skills to do better the next time. |
Edited by - Naz on May 14 2007 3:06:42 PM |
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 2:41:37 PM
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David, Thanks a lot.
Of course I am not playing with the forum or with you in the first place. I’m playing with my own mind. And of course, my ‘playing’ is neither perfectly pure nor perfectly good, which I also never pretended here. I occasionally try and make it possibly pure and good, or at least try and go into that direction, but as far as I remember my posts here, I’d always admitted myself being imperfect, impure, and full of ‘bad’ emotions. I’m working hard to get rid of them gradually in as far as I am able to.
As to my ‘playing’, I experiment with my mind in the first place, and use the reaction of people to certain energy combinations as helpful laboratory equipment to measure and evaluate the results my energy modifications bring about. In that process I make my own mind an object of temporary transformations and, being interested in the objective evaluation of the energies at first place, I am ready to go as far as make my temporary expressions imbecilic, stupid, useless, promoting enmity and anger etc. I prioritize the broad experiment and not the temporary good or bad results I achieve in my transient relationships. That’s a natural way any researcher goes. A car designer can’t help crushing a hundred cars in tests and experiments to finally build one that is one level better than all the others. In spiritual terms this is a never-ending process of improvement through negation of mistakes.
When I speak to this (and many other) audiences, I don’t even bother trying to be nice and getting some positive reactions. I focus all my attention on the observation of the pure effects (both bad and good) or the subtle energy changes I always experiment with. Moreover, I told this already, I intentionally overemphasize the unclear, dark, or ‘questionable’ energy expressions to get a better view of them and have more material for research. It’s like intentionally injecting a virus into my own veins in order to better understand all the details and phenomena related to the disease I’m currently experimenting with.
If I really wanted to be ‘nice’ with everyone here, I could do much better than I currently do, you know this, David. But being ‘nice’ has a lower priority for me than being ‘wise’, being knowledgeable about both good and bad things and all their peculiarities.
Now, let me ask you a question.
What do you think requires more courage and ‘warrior’ skills:
* to do things in front of the audience which you know in advance the audience is going to heap dirt upon, to despise; the things you know would make you an idiot in the eyes of an audience; the things you know perfectly well would make the people your enemies – and all this just to test some of the theories (or even just small details of the theories) you find important on your spiritual path; or
* to humiliate oneself in front of the audience knowing in advance this is going to bring positive reaction and will do good to all your relationships with the people you humiliate yourself in front of.
Well, a warrior must be impeccable (as far as he/she can). But it is the impeccability related to following your chosen path, rather than impeccability required to make a good impression in the society. I’m not after the brilliant (seemingly spiritually perfect) facade of my soul. I’m after the inner perfection/wisdom, which, first of all, is the field of endless improvement, and which includes the profound understanding of all the imperfections and their functioning. |
Edited by - Naz on May 14 2007 3:34:19 PM |
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 4:28:49 PM
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Now, Christi and Katrine,
So nice to have your positive emotional support.
Yes, Christi, something has really shifted, or rather I came to the conclusion to make a next shift of energies I experiment with. Since today I switched off the Mithuna and Meena energies. If you remember, when I wrote that ‘open and courageous’ message, my Mithuna energy was in the 3rd Bhava incl. to 2nd. It’s a natural expression of this energy location. 3rd Bhava is about courage and braveness. But my observation was that for the Mithuna energy there’s actually a bit too much of this courage coming forth from this combination. The expression becomes unstable and tends to jump the gun. It has a few other serious drawbacks, typical for an energy not belonging to the lower plane being placed into the Dusthana.
Currently I feel it is the time to outline another three groups of the energies available within the 12.
There are 4 energies representing the mentality of pure castes.
These are the:
Dnanu (the Brahmin);
Simha (the Kshatriya);
Karka (the Vaishya) and;
Kanya (the Shudra).
There are another 4 energies representing the mentality of the mixed castes:
Meena (Brahmin/Vaishya);
Vrishabha (Brahmin/Vaishya);
Mithuna (Kshatriya/Shudra);
Mesha (Kshatriya/Shudra).
And there are another 4 energies representing the mentality of the outcastes (fallen mentality):
Tula (Brahmin degraded to Vaishya);
Vrishcika (Kshatriya outcaste, gains some unbalanced Brahmin-substitute qualities);
Kumbha (Shudra outcaste, gains some unbalanced Kshatriya-substitute qualities);
Makara (Vaishya outcaste, gains some unbalanced Shudra-substitute qualities).
From today morning I fully activate the first group of 4 energies. Feel the difference!
*****
As to those details you tend to like in my openness, I am sorry to say they are just incidentally getting into tune with your mental concepts of how spiritual evolution should be. It’s not that your concepts are bad, they are not. But you are not even getting close to the outer gates of the castle of my soul in your remarks.
For you, Katrine, if you be kind enough to accept my humble opinion, you are being hopelessly trapped into a simplified illusion of being on the deeply spiritual path. Your remarks are correct, in general. However, you underestimate the value of bringing the Light to the level of the Budhi. Yes, it’s kind of true that once you get in touch with some Light the transformation goes automatically, but it’s not that candy-like and all-round simple. You have to make effort to develop (build) a bridge between the Absolute (which is the source of Light) and your lower levels of mentality. You have to consciously rebuild, reconstruct and improve the structure of your Budhi, with the helpful infusion of Light you get in your transcending. Yes, once you catch some Light it’s like letting it go and following the flow. But it’s not like lazily bathing forever in the waves of the Light (if you are doing that, you are quite likely bathing in the waves of an illusion of being in the Light), it’s more like following the Light’s orders and directions. And these orders and directions can sometimes be quite demanding and hard to accomplish, might require a lot of logical work and mental (or even physical) effort on the lower planes of your inner world.
Basically, Katrine, I find your expressions very promising. You are going the right way, just move on. There’s lots of new things for you to discover and accomplish. Follow the Light, bring it into all the levels of your mind. Just don’t indulge into thinking about how great it is to be in the Light.
All the best. |
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A Criticism of Sexual Spirituality
