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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 17 2009 : 8:32:52 PM
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Hello everybody. I started meditating a couple months ago after finding this website, but I decided to stop taking the synthetic opiate I was on (suboxone) too fast and went through withdrawals and had to stop. I started tsking the medicine again, moved to Chicago for school, and have been meditating for several weeks now (about an hour once a day - it's hard for me to break it up with my schedule.)
Anyways, Sunday I noticed this weird pressure in my throat chakra, it has been coming and going, usually stronger after meditation. I can feel it right now. It is not an intense pressure (like some peoples I've read at their third eye) but it is lighter and feels more like something is pushing it in. What is this? Is it bad?
Another thing is when I come out of meditation my whole body feels light and is vibrating (not shaking) and my hands are magnetized (I can feel magnetism in between them). Is this normal? What are the reasons for this?
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 05:45:32 AM
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Hi BM,
The party line here is that 1 hour is way too much in one go and might be causing you an overload (and the symptoms you describe). Why don't you just stick to 20 min in the morning and try and squeeze in 10-15 in the evening (can be a challenge but with some discipline it is doable). Also consider adding 5-10 minutes spinal breathing (half page clear instructions here http://www.aypsite.org/41.html). This is supposed to go to great lengths to help overload symptoms.
Is it possible to reduce the dose of suboxone you're taking? Have you tried the AA 12 step recovery program that is a drug-free method for confronting additictions? Good luck, Lili
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 1:41:18 PM
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I did reduce the suboxone - I went from 2 pills a day to a half a day (and am planning on cutting down half every few days to quarter every few days until I am off.) I really didn't want to be on it anymore and since I didn't take it everyday I didn't think I would go through withdrawals. But I found out the hard way that they're worse than regular opiates because it stays in your system for 4 days whether you take it everyday or not and it just keeps piling up.
I didn't know that an hour would be that serious! I never am totally sure how long it is, but usually it's around an hour. I don't think it's overload though. The pressure isn't constant, it seems to come and go and when I notice it, I am not irritated or anything. I could not find anything on the internet about pressure in the throat chakra so I was hoping somebody here would know what's going on. And my whole body vibrates afterwards whether I meditate for 20 minutes or an hour. I was just wondering if that's normal and what causes my body to vibrate... I have no other symptoms of overload. I can start doing the twice a day again but the problem is my schedule is different everyday so I wouldn't be able to do the first 20 min in the morning (or at the same time every day.) Is it bad to not meditate at the same times everyday? What if I go over 10 minutes? Should I get a timer?
I want to add the SB soon but I am very scared to have a premature Kundalini awakening (especially with the suboxone!) I plan to add it after getting on a better and more stable schedule with the DM first... |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 2:19:25 PM
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Hi BelleMente.....
As you may or may not know, when I came to AYP in June of 08 I was on a 90mg daily dose of methadone. I had been on that dose for 4 years after about 4 years of IV heroin and methamphetamine addiction, which was following about 4 years of opiate experimentation.
Suboxone is different from methadone in that it has the opiate antagonist Naloxone in it combined with Buprenorphine. I'm not sure if downdosing off Subox is a lot different from methadone but I will tell you how I dropped my physical need for opiates using AYP and hopefully it helps in some way.
As you may know, the drugs given as legal suppliments for illegal opiates usually have a considerably longer half-life then other opiates (like heroin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine etc) and so it takes much longer for these drugs to be metabolized by the human system....this is why they are used as "maintenance" therapy drugs....you only have to take them once a day to remain out of withdrawals. This also means it takes longer to rid your system of these maintenance opiates. That means "slow and steady" is definitely advisable and going to for sure be more comfortable then quickly downdosing.
That said, here is what I did:
1. I spent 4 weeks doing Deep Meditation twice daily as prescribed.
2. After 4 weeks I added in the practice of Spinal Breathing Pranayama.
3. After 1 week of doing SBP I noticed that I was extremely high all day and was falling asleep at the wheel etc.
4. I started downdosing right about this time. I was on 90mgs daily, and for my first "dose drop" I took out 30mg's or 33.333% of my daily dose. Normally this would have put me into a terrible opiate sickness within a few hours of not taking my full dose. The withdrawals never came.
5. 1 week later I dropped another 30mgs off my dose. Still no withdrawal symptoms.
6. As I got lower and lower in dosages I started to drop a little less each time to ensure a comfortable detox. This worked for me.
7. It took me a total of 10 weeks to completely get off of my methadone dose and I had zero withdrawal symptoms. I have not done any opiates since that day, October 13th 2008, nor have I had any real desire to either.
Don't know for sure if an approach like this will work for you, but it can't hurt to try.
I know how painful opiate withdrawals are, so I hope you will have a painless and quick detox.
Lots of Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 18 2009 2:22:12 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4374 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 2:57:05 PM
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Hi BellaMente,
quote:
I didn't know that an hour would be that serious! I never am totally sure how long it is, but usually it's around an hour. I don't think it's overload though. The pressure isn't constant, it seems to come and go and when I notice it, I am not irritated or anything. I could not find anything on the internet about pressure in the throat chakra so I was hoping somebody here would know what's going on. And my whole body vibrates afterwards whether I meditate for 20 minutes or an hour. I was just wondering if that's normal and what causes my body to vibrate... I have no other symptoms of overload.
The pressure in the throat area is normal when the throat chakra is becoming activated. The vibrations throughout your body are caused by prana moving through the nadis. If the amount of prana being released increases then your body will start to shake at times. These are all normal symptoms of kundalini beginning to stir and purify the body... nothing to worry about. Eventually the nadis widen, and can carry a higher load of prana. When this happens, what was experienced as vibrations or shaking or heat, is experienced as ecstasy.
If you are just practicing Deep Meditation I would advise you to cut down to 20 mins at a time, as Lili did. Not because you are experiencing energetic overload now, but because you may well soon if you keep on going for so long at a time. Different people have different obstructions though so at the end of the day you have to work out what is right for you.
Adding Spinal Breathing into the mix can smooth things out, but it can also liven things up  so it could be worth introducing it slowly (maybe 5 mins after DM) and seeing how it goes.
All the best,
Christi |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 3:19:34 PM
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| Thanks Carson. Yes, I do remember in my first post that you were on the 90 mg of methadone a day. (I was actually planning on contacting you for more details about this, especially since I've been reading on your posts lately about your lack of desire for spiritual understanding which is something I live on!) Anyways, I definitely want to try the SB but I am just really scared about having a kundalini awakening when I am not 'ready'. However, if you were on that stuff for that long I know I have hope (I was under the impression that a kundalini experience causes psychosis if you have done drugs in your life because of the 'crystallizations in the astral body' that shatter from the pressure of the K.) I still don't want to start the SB until I have a stable practice in DM first though.... |
Edited by - BellaMente on Sep 18 2009 3:35:20 PM |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 3:26:37 PM
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Thanks Christi for clearing this up! I thought it had something to do with blockages/activation but I was not sure...
I will start doing the 20 min twice daily... but what happens if I go over a couple minutes? And is it important to do it the same time everyday? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 3:38:56 PM
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Hi BelleMente....
It hasn't been my experience that kundalini causes psychosis if you have done drugs, but it could be the case for some (although I highly doubt it would be the sole cause).
About going over in Deep Meditation for a few minutes....it's not a big deal until you start to notice uncomfortable symptoms either during or outside of meditation. I suggest that you pick up Yogani's Deep Meditation and Spinal Breathing Pranayam books and I suggest that you start by reading the lessons starting from the beginning here: http://www.aypsite.org/10.html .....
Hope this helps!
Love,
Carson |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 4:24:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
what happens if I go over a couple minutes? And is it important to do it the same time everyday?
Not a problem if you go over a few minutes /practice in different times. Practice whenever your schedule allows as long as you don't do your evening session too late, and leave a few hours for activity (any kind) between your evening session and sleep. It's not cut and dry--your stability and comfort should guide you. If you feel excessive discomfort you should pace yourself by reducing practice time. Spinal breathing should help balance your energy, but as you say better establish stable meditation routine and then add 5-10 min SB immediately before meditation, without a break b-n the two. For the suboxone guess Carson can advise as I have no experience using or getting rid of addiction so not qualified...Good luck... |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4374 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 5:08:37 PM
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Hi Bellamente,
quote:
my whole body feels light and is vibrating (not shaking) and my hands are magnetized (I can feel magnetism in between them). Is this normal?
I forgot to mention, there is a minor chakra in the palm of each hand. This isn't mentioned in the main lessons. When you put your hands close together (palms in), as you have noticed, there is a buildup of prana between the two chakras. This is also quite normal and is part of the purification process.
Christi |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 5:37:51 PM
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Hi Bellamente,
quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
I was under the impression that a kundalini experience causes psychosis if you have done drugs in your life because of the 'crystallizations in the astral body' that shatter from the pressure of the K.)
I'm not sure where you got that impression, but that impression is as false as it gets ... on so many levels, I'm not even sure where I'd start.
Suffice it to say that you can safely forget you ever heard/read that blatantly erroneous piece of misinformation.
Per my comments to you in the "Discarding The Maps" thread .... there's a LOT of misinformation on kundalini out there; your statement above is a perfect example (and "no harm, no foul" ... most of us don't necessarily have a good way to gauge the quality of information on kundalini, and other yogic/spiritual matters, until we've been at this for a while).
Kundalini is just a term, among many, from the world's wisdom traditions, for the energy of opening to the fulfillment of your own consciousness .... what you actually *are*; ultimately and inherently .... nothing can stand in the way of realization of y/our true nature.
If anything, kundalini is what causes *sanity*.
The misperceptions and misconceptions of ego .... and the misperceptions and misconceptions that *are* ego ... are the psychosis ... or, at the very least, the psychopathology.
Kundalini is a term for the combined energies/consciousness which take us from the insanity of thinking-dreaming we're partial to the reality of knowing we're wholeness.
"Having done drugs" is nothing more than a symptom of that fundamental misperception; every ego-mind attempts to fill in its misperceived gaps in some way ... every ego-mind self-medicates with something (i.e. sex, drugs, alcohol, career aspirations, valued opinions, cherished beliefs, relationships, pride, shame, anger, wanting, having, attachment, aversion, greed, hate, (faux) love, goals, regrets, hard work, laziness, attempted control, addiction, distraction, despair, hope, etc. etc. etc. .... you name it)!
"Having done drugs" just carries a certain stigma in certain circles (of ego-minds), and among certain ego-minds. The vrttis (memory impressions, including psychically-astrally and physically) from all activities of the ego-mind are the very thing that blocks awareness of true nature ... and are the very blocks eradicated by practices (i.e. no stored impressions, from drugs or anything else, are a match for yoga practices).
If you exercise, your muscles will grow; if you meditate and drop attachment to the conceptual, you will realize your true nature, and be liberated in this life.
"Yogash citta-vrtti-nirodhah" - "Yoga (Union; realization of true nature) is the cessation of mind-agitation" (including the agitation kicked up by the long term memory and conditioning of the body-mind, in any given moment).
(Yoga Sutras, I.2)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but:
There is absolutely nothing to be afraid of.
It's all too easy to be full of fear and full of doubt, especially if the opinions of other ego-minds have helped to generate the dream/concept of doubt, based on misinformation such as the line I quoted above, at the start of this post (about "astral crystallization", or whatever; there's no such thing; "astral" just means "non-physical form" ... the astral *can't* "crystallize" ... or at least not in a way that can't be melted/dissolved by meditation and other practices).
Practice wisely.
Self-pace as indicated by results and common sense.
Have fun.
Be happy.
(The last two are as important as the first two; being happy does more for vrtti/memory-impression dissolving than anything else except for yogic practices themselves .... and, from a certain view, being happy is a practice.)
"There is no way to happiness; happiness is the way."
~The Buddha
Practicing daily, not worrying, having fun, and paying no attention whatsoever to the conceptual (*especially* about kundalini) are the biggest favors you can do yourself.
Being trapped by the concepts of ego-mind will ultimately generate the only true psychosis ... best described as:
Being trapped by the concepts of ego-mind.
It's not kundalini you need to be afraid of.
It's being afraid of kundalini you need to be afraid of.
Please do *relax*. A lot of realized and/or significantly awakened people have done a lot of drugs in the past, and they end up just fine. The only people I feel truly sorry for are those with even-keel, normal lives. Why? In most cases, they don't have any impetus to wake up.
Those of us who've had bumpy lives (often of a type harshly judged by some of the more opinionated and deeply-dreaming ego-minds out there) are just seeking to escape the pain in the best ways we know how (ways that are often kinda crazy ... or more than kinda ... in retrospect).
We haven't done any harm to ourselves ("quote-unquote") that's not done by every ego-mind; vrttis (mind impressions/conditioning) are universal; it's only the details that vary ... and drug use, along with related memories/feelings/concepts ... are not worse or better than any other mind-impressions.
Cloud cover is cloud cover.
And, once we (those who've had .... non-boring  ... lives in one way or another) ... catch the scent of the truth ... and where/how it can be found (Y-O-G-A ...!!) ... we take all that "mis-placed" bhakti (with which we sought happiness where it can't be found ... via drugs, relationships, cherished beliefs, etc.), and we become a sadhana (yogic practices) laser beam .... and never look back, never doubt our new focus ... and most assuredly never regret it.
You're home.
You won.
You One!
(We all One)!
You just don't know it all the way yet.
The best way to *start* knowing it, is to stop worrying.
Kundalini is no more dangerous than your breath .... and a lot *less* dangerous than your thoughts.
I hope this helps.
Heart Is Where The AUM Is,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Sep 18 2009 6:47:33 PM |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 7:01:06 PM
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Thanks Kirtanman! I feel better hearing that, you are right. I just didn't want to take any chances on permanently messing 'myself' up. I actually read that statement on a website (and I have a book that has similiar material and it even goes further to say loud noises cause such crystallizations) and since I've read just about every site that talked about kundalini (I've been obsessed with it since summer) and most of them gave serious warnings and had horrible stories, I let the fear control me.. I actually was just reading what Yogani says about the dangers of premature crown openings and I think that is probably where people get most of the horror stories from. I actually sent a message to the guy that owned the website explaining my past and asking advice for how I can fix any damage done and he didn't even give me much information (although he did say he was deep into drugs, started spiritual work and had an extremely powerful awakening that caused psychosis, it was probably a premature crown opening.)
I am home you're right, I've felt more comfort and acceptance here than anywhere else.
I'll stop worrying! Thanks everybody! |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 7:06:57 PM
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Thanks for your response Christi! I just posted a whole new thread on this topic not too long ago... I noticed today that closing my eyes, exhaling, and thinking influences this magnetism. How does this work? It seems to correspond to the brain (I would think of math and the energy would move to my left hand and I would think about art and it would move to the right). It was definitely interesting.
What are these minor chakras for? And why can I only feel those and not any other energy in my body or my other chakras?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4374 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 7:25:02 PM
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Hi Bellamente,
quote:
What are these minor chakras for? And why can I only feel those and not any other energy in my body or my other chakras?
The chakras in the hands seem to be useful for only one thing.... passing energy directly to others. It seems we are designed to help each other.
It is quite common for people to experience energy at the hands before they become aware of the other chakras in the body. Why this happens, I don't know.
Christi |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 18 2009 : 9:27:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
Thanks Kirtanman! I feel better hearing that, you are right. I just didn't want to take any chances on permanently messing 'myself' up. I actually read that statement on a website (and I have a book that has similiar material and it even goes further to say loud noises cause such crystallizations) and since I've read just about every site that talked about kundalini (I've been obsessed with it since summer) and most of them gave serious warnings and had horrible stories, I let the fear control me.. I actually was just reading what Yogani says about the dangers of premature crown openings and I think that is probably where people get most of the horror stories from. I actually sent a message to the guy that owned the website explaining my past and asking advice for how I can fix any damage done and he didn't even give me much information (although he did say he was deep into drugs, started spiritual work and had an extremely powerful awakening that caused psychosis, it was probably a premature crown opening.)
I am home you're right, I've felt more comfort and acceptance here than anywhere else.
I'll stop worrying! Thanks everybody!
Hi Bellamonte,
Cool -- good to hear!
Quick clarification: when I said "you are home" ... I didn't mean "with AYP" .... I meant: there's enough clarity/bhakti active within *you* ... that you won't fall all the way back into the dream, unless you let conceptual thinking *completely* obscure any common sense clarity *and* you don't practice.
Meaning: as long as you *do* practice, and don't let any crazy ideas (kundalini-related or otherwise) cause you to form opinions about anything related *to* practices ... that, combined with the ever-opening reality of loving consciousness that is what kundalini actually is, and what you (and each and all of us) actually are ...... will bring you to the full knowing that you're home, just fine.
As In: I didn't say:
You made it home!
Or
You're at home!
I said:
You are home.
There's nothing outside you that can mess you up, because ultimately ... there's nothing outside you.
And, regarding "quality of information" ... sounds like you literally learned a good lesson; most of us have had to learn the same one, at one point or another, regarding something related to yoga/spirituality.
And that lesson is:
Go with experience.
Anything taught by AYP can and will be verified in your own experience, and/or can be currently verified in the experience of (at minimum) at least a few people, here.
Much of yoga is like that ... a well-known quote by kirtan artist Dave Stringer is:
"Yoga is not about belief; it's about practice."
Genuine yogis and yoginis are like people confirming the benefits of physical exercise ("you'll feel better, your muscles will grow, you'll have more energy ... try it, you'll see!")
Certain others who discuss yoga, meditation and/or kundalini (or anything else that can fall under the headings of "spiritual" or "metaphysical") ... do so from a standpoint of distorted conceptual belief//mental prejudice .... and/or a combination of limited experience and imagination.
There are enough people who've experienced a full (or full enough) kundalini/awakening process ... and who essentially cite the experience/process as positive .... that there's no reason to spend any time or effort on the scared or scary ones.
I'm sure that back in the early days of modern fitness, somebody somewhere ran ten miles the first day, got horribly sore muscles, and decided they had astral crystal in their .... running shoes .... or whatever.
People have been experiencing the full process of kundalini/awakening for the entire history of human kind.
People who've taken a lot of drugs have been experiencing the full process of kundalini/awakening for the entire history of human kind.
It's all too easy for conceptual imagination to jump in and say "But *my* situation is different; *my* drugs were {drug x, drug y, drug z}, and such-and-such guru says such-and-such astral kerwhackiness results!"
And to that, all I can say is:
Conceptual limitation is the *entire* problem ... the best thing you can do, other than daily practice itself .... is to ignore *all* conceptual limitation.
Liberation from conceptual limitation *is* conceptual limitation.
In yogic science, the root of all illusion and bondage is known (in Sanskrit) as Apurnammanyata - the concept of non-wholeness, or stated more simply, the fundamental thought (stored in conditioned memory at every level) "I am not whole."
Knowing that, you can rest assured that anything which would lead you to believe there is any kind of a barrier between yourself and knowing your true wholeness ... is incorrect. and has arisen as a result of that fundamental illusion, and can be safely ignored.
You are whole.
Enlightenment is real.
Enlightenment is all that's real.
And you're home.
We're all home.
We're all AUM.
And Heart* Is Where The AUM Is,
Kirtanman
*Awareness of Inherent Wholeness |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 1:12:30 PM
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Any writings by Gopi Krishna or Yogani do alot to de-mystify the whole subject of K-Awakening, explain it in clear scientific languaage.
There is absolutly nothing to be afraid of at all.I had this same wariness and concern when i started this yoga thing.. In fact i am of the opinion that with AYP and the tools found here it could become a thing of the past,if only we had all this-AYP.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kundalini-E...ef=pd_cp_b_1
Or just read the Main Lessons.
There is so much murkiness,fear and mythology surrounding it. And most of it sadly is based on fear and ignorance.
Really you are home as K-Man put it,and the
"It's being afraid of kundalini you need to be afraid of."
It is basically fear of the unknown. There is nothing to be afraid of as it so much better understood.I had this wariness myself until i read Yogani's writings, and then it all clicked. There's even plenty of info. available here on how to remedy it.
Man/woman has been taking drugs for as long as they have been doing yoga practices.Though i do think since the 70's there has been a re-emergence of opioid abuse certainly in the west,particularly in urban places, though it is everywhere these days.And i am aware of the increased availability of pharmacolgical alternatives in the States as supposed to here in the UK.If you are a heroin addict here ,it is methadone or nothing. You don't get such a plethora of alternatives available. Though i daresay say even the legal status of heroin has to change as the current "war on drugs" is clearly not working, as is the legal posttion on it's availability( there have been very encouraging pilot-programmes/studies in some places of Western Europe. You see, I am of the opinion heroin should be legalised, addicts supported and supply taken out of the hands of gangsters and put back with doctors, where it belongs, supply adminsitered in a controlled fashion. That is besides the point but this occured in the 1920's & 1890's when heroin was prescribed to morphine addicts, so it is nothing new.We tend to come full circle every 30-40 years or so.The crazy thing is it's the Taliban that cultivates 90% of the H supplied to Western Europe.And who rubs shoulders with Hamid Karzhi/Afghan gov't, but the President of the US and their intellgience bureaus.George Bush for one--"war on drugs" is phony - it's huge irony that he is in bed with the people that cultivate the opium at the source considerinig the money he pours into the fight and all the rhetoric. Some folk say the drugs are there just to keep the underdogs in their place.And their may be some truth in that.Howeve our problem in the uk is atrocious,posssibly up to 3x i think that of the next illicit consumer ,France /or Germany.We seem unable to control our alcohol and drugs consumption ,though supposedly we produce a lot of independent creative types,free thinkers- i guess our country has this knack for producing these independents and eccentric types but also more debauched types . Must be our more "fractured" society)
Myself,i was lucky enough to take up a religious asana practice after tapering off a methadone script, and the cravings dissapeared completely.Must have been all that de-toxing.The re-wiring occured in the brain there and then.. And that was a good ten year love affair. I started shooting up about 97' but i've been clean since starting yoga 3yrs 10 months ago , and i so have moved well on from all of that nonsense.
Hope you find what you're looking for.
I hope we all find what we're looking for.
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 4:21:10 PM
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Okay, I am very happy to hear that I have nothing to worry about Kundalini causing me psychosis. I appreciate all of your responses. But maybe now one of you can give me some feedback on something else:
I've been interested in spirituality since elementary school. This need for spiritual understanding has led me into my study of physics. My passion is theoretical physics (my favorite subject being quantum mechanics of course!) and I have 2 years left until I graduate and another 4 years after that for my Ph.D. I've read a lot of these forums (as well as many other tales of awakenings) and I keep finding that awakened people have a hard time trying to conceptualize spiritual things. Many people seem to lose their drive for spiritual understanding and rather just live it and experience it in the now. This is awesome, and I would love to be there with them, however I kind of need this drive to stay with me if I am to finish my degree in theoretical physics. If I am unable to conceptualize things I will never be able to work on the theories I want to. (I am the type that makes sense of the universe in spiritual terms rather than physical - basically if there is not a spiritual explanation for physical phenomena I don't believe in the theory - as opposed to people that don't believe in spiritual phenomena because there is no physical explanation in theory.) My goal is to bring the spiritual to the physical whether these other stubborn close minded physicists like it or not! And to do this I am going to need to translate my spiritual understanding into mathematics and theory (I know that some things just can't be understood or solved but I am going to try my best.) So I need to know how serious this will be for me. Will I be able to continue on with my physics or will I lose my passion, interest, and mind with it all crashing down because of this lack of conceptualization?
Basically, I know the mind is the "devils playground" but damn it I need it to at least finish school! lol |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 6:47:33 PM
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You might want to check out a book called ' Sivananda Buried Yoga'( Sorry i've never read it though i do like the flowery language he uses, the buzz-words, space-time dynamics, applied principles of the theory of relativity, the matrix of dynamics etc http://www.yogavillage.org/sby.html)though you can read one critical review on the site here-http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3761
It's great you've started off with a spiriitual understanding which inspired an interest in quantum mechanics physics, moving towards something more conceptual-working in the opposite direction from usual like you say..
****My hunch is that i suspect the energy body could be a very lucrative & interesting area of research- very worthy IMO & Experience.. The problem to me seems to be the scientists don't have common instruments sensitive enough yet to detect the energy field,cosmis energy/prana but it is a reality acknowedged by physics.Sounds like you may have experienced such with your magnetic hands referred to in another post,so you are very sensitive which is a good thing.If one works with energy then it is unmistakeable.K entails an open sushuman nadi and i think quuantum physics might be able to shed light in the workings of the subtle nervous system.
There is certainly more than meets the eye,to the workings of the Universe ,for sure..,and the Mind/Body Matrix.
Yes we do give our beliefs far too much credibility over our experience. I heard Samadhi described as the experience of a complete Universe, in itself,literally and metaphorically
Superconcious states and human/spiritual evolution in one lifetime sound worth looking into.
And I could suggest that Kundalini, quantum physics and the energy body* might make a good thesis for you Ph.D.
It is very nice to have you here, Bellamente.
Are you doing practices,following AYP?
Sorry if i missed this somewhere.
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Edited by - Akasha on Sep 19 2009 6:58:51 PM |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 8:19:33 PM
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Yes I am following AYP, although my schedule makes it hard to cut the practice into twice daily.
It's not that I am trying to move towards something more conceptual, it is that I need to be able to retain this conceptualization or else I will not be able to work in theoretical physics. For example, it is a hot thing in physics right now to unite all fundamental forces (electromagnetic, weak, strong, gravity) and they cannot merge gravity with quantum physics. So they created this particle called a graviton. I don't believe in this graviton, and I was just arguing with my new physics teacher (a particle physicist) about this the other day (which was pretty funny because he kept coming up with arguments against my ideas and I kept disproving them hehehe he couldn't get me to budge!) Basically, I think they are going about this the wrong way. They think that forces are caused by 'virtual particles' (photons, gravitons, etc.) that interact and this idea I do not like. They are stuck on physical explanations. I think forces are caused by something else. But to be able to show that they are wrong I have to make up a better theory and to do this I need to be able to translate my idea of what forces are and how they work into physical terms (mathematics)... Another example is string theory. I like certain parts of it (higher dimensions, etc.) but there are certain parts of it I don't like (strings, the dimensions are rolled up very small and serve no purpose, etc.) and to be able to work on it I need to be able to conceptualize (my idea of dimensions) and translate this into theory / mathematics. So I need to retain both my desire/passion for spiritual understanding so I even care about this stuff and my ability to conceptualize it to work in this area, and I was wondering if this is going to be hard to retain when dealing with a kundalini awakening.
I do agree that it would be interesting to study and that IS the problem right now, not having sensitive enough instruments. (I also believe astrology works on an energetic level and of course I can't prove this because there is no device sensitive enough to test it.) This is another reason why I chose to go into theoretical physics instead of experimental - I wouldn't be able to study anything that I wanted to because of this restriction. Plus it takes money to have a lab and do experiments and you can't just experiment on whatever you want - you have to get grants or funding and get approved for this, which means whoever is funding you must think your experiment will be meaningful. (For example, I just asked my advisor if I can do my own experiment at the lab and he said I would have to find a faculty member interested enough in the experiment first and then it would have to be approved by the school. I didn't tell him what it was but I wanted to experiment mainly on kundalini and maybe schizophrenia and I doubt of course that I will be able to find someone interested let alone get approved by the school.) So I will not be able to do any experiments of my own until I am a theoretical physicist working on theory and making enough money to get my own lab!!! |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 9:52:56 PM
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Hi BelleMente & All,
quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
Yes I am following AYP, although my schedule makes it hard to cut the practice into twice daily.
It's not that I am trying to move towards something more conceptual, it is that I need to be able to retain this conceptualization or else I will not be able to work in theoretical physics.
There's a difference between being *able* to conceptualize, and being lost in and governed by the erroneously conceptual and the conceptually erroneous.
You'll find that as awakening unfolds, all abilities needed in order to consciously create, learn, develop, teach, etc. etc. etc. .... are fully available.
(As opposed to the "partially/haphazardly/inconsistently" availability that ego-minds believe they're restricted by.)
The parts of the ego-mind's "dream machine" that tend to fall away during kundalini/awakening, are those related to its limitation-based motivations and conceptual beliefs:
Do you want to be Rich? Famous? Successful? Well-liked? Accepted? Powerful? (Etc. Etc. Etc.) All of these are symptoms of the ego's dream of partiality.
What dissolves is the ego-mind's deluded sense of *need* for these things, and the (mistaken) idea that fulfillment can come from any of them.
You may still well end up rich, or famous, or "successful", or whatever-whatever .... but it won't be as a result of the *reasons* that the ego-mind had locked onto/locked itself into.
If a career in theoretical physics is what's authentic for you ... it'll happen ... and *everything* about kundalini/awakening will help you to excel in such a career .... either the academic portion, or the working portion.
Because .... as the (illusory) limitations of ego-mind and its (illusory) motivations fall away ..... so do illusory limitations in terms of capability.
Kashmir Shaivism teaches that realization ultimately involves "clarification of the conceptual layer" (Abhinavagupta); the Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) teaches the same thing, with slightly different phrasing.
Simply put: mind is the bridge which connects the formless absolute awareness (our true nature), with the universe of form (whether subtle or gross; mental or physical).
Ego-mind is a layer of conceptual cloud-cover, which obscures the original clarity of mind, and therefore (seemingly) its inherent access to the formless part of itself (awareness itself; the awareness "behind the mind", the actual intelligence reading these words, experiencing this moment).
Yogic practices, and kundalini/awakening *removes* this cloud cover.
The result is ..... beyond words. Infinitely.
One of the "perks" of realization (and/or advanced practice results; "what happens when" and "what is called what" are two very sliding scales) is access to the active phase of infinite consciousness, otherwise known as "pratibha" ... pure, universal intuition.
You may have heard of this under other names and terms .... many scientists and artists credit their great discoveries, or great works to it ... they worked for years or decades on something .... and then *Let It Go* .. and then, while on a walk, or resting or whatever .... "out of the blue" ... the answer came to them .... intuitively.
Realization is when you get that the "out of the blue" .... is *you*!
Seriously, though.
Adyashanti puts it nicely: "I know what I need to know when I need to know it."
And certain people, at least, have found kundalini/awakening and a career in theoretical physics to get along ... just fine.
I hate to be the one to break it to you (actually I *don't* hate it, at all .... that's just a fun way to say it .... ) .... but:
There's no bad news, in terms of the effects and benefits of yoga/awakening.
NONE.
Only benefits.
Not only more than you imagine.
More than you *can* imagine.
No kidding.
Imagination .... the ability to creatively conceive and conceptually create ... becomes your actual creative playground ... as opposed to the most insane, illusory slave-master consciousness ever managed to mis-identify itself with.
Einstein did some good work .... but at the end of the day, was blinded by his own scientific fundamentalism .... he was still a slave to the conceptual.
Imagine, if you will .... a theoretical physicist liberated from all conceptual chains ... and with access to-as the full creative imagination-reality of All That Is Now.
The discoveries possible by-through-as such a physicist are ... well ... limitless.
Might such a physicist be ... you??
Let us know.
And please notice: all these concerns are the worries of limited mind.
They're not bad ..... we all have them, until we don't, any longer.
They're just immaterial.
The way to turbocharge your practices and your results (of yogic practices) is to drop the that which *binds* you, conceptually ... all your ideas about ... well.... everything.
Physics .... even theoretical physics ... is about uncovering and articulating the actual (and now, per quantum physics and quantum geometry, and what-not, the potential, as well .... with potential forays into the original, once spirituality and physics sync up, just a bit more).
There are no conflicts between science and spirituality.
There are only conflicts between misunderstandings about science and spirituality.
And please notice: any concerns about kundalini are articulated by people who don't understand what they've experienced/are experiencing -- and who have not completed enough of the process to have clarity about it (and who may not, at least not anytime soon, if they remain confused).
Imagine a handful of people in the early days of physical exercise, warning others: "Exercise is bad, and scary! I used to do drugs, and I exercised .... and I got sore muscles ... all over my body!! I had major pain in my astral crystals! You did drugs, too? Poor you! Exercise will shatter your astral crystals!"
And I'm really not intending to belittle the person who gave you that advice -- I actually have compassion for them, and their misunderstandings.
All I can tell you, is: from where I sit (which is, solely: someone who has "AYP-ercized" daily for a few years) .... the analogy above concerning exercise *is* exactly analogous to the misplaced advice you got about kundalini.
This isn't my opinion.
This is my experiencing.
Like any other science ..... yoga was developed theoretically, and verified experimentally.
"Know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
Not "mentally accept someone else's claims about the truth" ....... "Know the truth".
Any of us who have completed enough of the process to have clarity *and* our own ongoing experimental verification, say:
There's nothing to worry about.
Practice wisely.
Self-pace as needed.
Have Fun.
Be Happy.
Liberation is real.
It isn't special.
It isn't exotic.
But it is liberation.
All the way home.
All the way here, now.
Heart Is Where The AUM Is,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Sep 19 2009 9:55:41 PM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 10:13:01 PM
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Hi Bellamente,
In my experience spirituality is based on faith, surrender and practices.
As a relative newbie to AYP (and my (very) limited understanding of reality) there is no way I could mathematically define the wild experiences that happen every day....It's like Zenos paradox...if you think you are making progress by getting halfway there everyday...you will never arrive.
IMHO it's all about outpouring divine love...which is hard to put in an equation...but (relatively) easy to experience though the AYP practices.
Looking forward to your contributions to the forum! |
Edited by - machart on Sep 19 2009 10:28:16 PM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 10:22:02 PM
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Hi BellaMente:
You might find this topic to be of interest, calling for more university-level integrated research on the process of human spiritual transformation, or applied spiritual science:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3267
Research in theoretical physics is not mentioned much in there, only because the focus so far has been more in human potential and health, which is where there has been growing funding coming from healthcare-related foundations.
That is not taking into consideration the considerable research in theoretical physics, which is well-funded in its own right, but not to the extent of tying in with research on consciousness ... yet.
In any case, you can count on AYP for moral support in your cause, if not much in the way of tangible resources. We are here, and that is about it. It isn't a small thing. Where else in the world can you find a diverse and fast-growing non-sectarian community dedicated to the practical application of full scope self-directed spiritual practices, with the primary emphasis being on flexible application of methods for developing repeatable results that anyone can achieve? Some may not call that applied science, but I do. It is only the beginning. Educational and research institutions are welcome to join in the far-flung project. We can all support the research while becoming enlightened.
Not to worry, if you have a passion for the work, the work will get done. The more inner purification and opening you cultivate, the easier it will be to observe the nature of reality first hand (in stillness) and explain it to others in the language of your chosen field.
Go for it!
The guru is in you.
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2009 : 10:53:08 PM
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Hi BellaMente,
In my experience, meditation doesn't cause a loss of mind, but rather a loss of attachment to mind. You should still be able to function, and in fact may function better because your thinking is more clear. Some people do go through a phase where they lose interest in intellectual knowledge/concepts, or even spiritual knowledge. I feel that it's just a phase we pass through when our relationship to thoughts changes.
The loss of interest in concepts comes because we see that they are not reality. Words are not truth, they only point to truth. When we begin to see this, we may feel the need to move away from intellectual knowledge and towards direct experience of reality. I find that after a while, we can come back to knowledge with fresh eyes and detachment. We can play with words, dance with concepts, but we see clearly that they are fiction.
I'm taking a Visual Culture class, which is completely conceptual. Rather than argue with the teacher and say "None of this is true", I am able to engage in the class discussions and understand the material. There is just a lack of attachment to the ideas. I even have an A in the class so far, and don't believe a word of it! 
Hope this helps.
Peace
cosmic |
Edited by - cosmic on Sep 19 2009 11:43:42 PM |
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2009 : 02:35:05 AM
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Thank you all for your responses!
Kirtanman and cosmic thank you for clearing that up for me. I am now totally 100% worry free! I promise!
Thanks Yogani! I read through the thread and think that an applied spiritual science department will definitely be a hit and I would love to help in any way I can. I know the funding will be more difficult but I can get some connections and find out what would have to be done for this. I do not know about the funding coming from healthcare related agencies (the pharmaceutical companies I know are the main funders for health care, at least for medical schools and departments, and I think they would rather continue making their drugs rather than competing with self-healing geared techniques.) I do agree it would have to be at a bigger university with more resources and more publicity. Whether everyone believes in it or not I don't think will matter (people get degrees in theology while most people do not even acknowledge a god.) And there are so many unusual and rare degrees nowadays it is surprising - and at major accredited universities - most of them don't even serve any purpose. At least applied spiritual science is geared towards research and has a scientific purpose - meaning there will be work - while there are popular college degrees that don't really have promising career outlooks (e.g. philosophy). I've read many studies on the effects of meditation published in journals with positive results so I know there is interest out there. (Also, there is a psychiatrist, Lee Sannella, that has worked on kundalini awakenings and would probably support this also.) I really am excited about the idea (I can even see some of the courses and material: scientific research methods, different religions/spiritual texts, quantum mechanics, AYP core principles/practices, maybe certain classes specializing in certain techniques, psychology classes on how the mind effects the body (my last college had that class) and another psychology class that studies in depth accounts of spiritual awakening (Gopi Krishna, Krishnamurti, etc.) It would be similar research to the reasearch done in psychology. I think there should be a lot of advertising and publicity once it starts going though.... I will talk to some people and let you know more information...
Do you have anything specific in mind - specific schools, classes, teachers?
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2009 : 11:22:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BellaMente
I read through the thread and think that an applied spiritual science department will definitely be a hit and I would love to help in any way I can.
Do you have anything specific in mind - specific schools, classes, teachers?
Hi BellaMente:
It might be better to continue this discussion in the research topic, so it won't get lost. I will copy your post and my reply over there. See here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#57226
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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BellaMente
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2009 : 5:06:57 PM
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| I still have the pressure in my throat coming and going. Does it take a while to be fully activated or is it getting blocked then activated, blocked then activated?? |
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Pressure in throat?
