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AustrianYogi
Austria
31 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 30 2008 : 08:12:29 AM
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Hello and Atma Namaste from Vienna, Austria!
I have some basic questions concerning deep meditation:
1) After favoring the mantra over days, weeks, month etc., will there be a time when we have to drop the mantra, for the aim of complete stillness? Because favoring the mantra is not complete detachment from the body, the senses etc., because there is still 1 thought: the mantra, and 1 thought is not 0, not complete stillness. When the mantra faints and faints, is it a part of the process to finally drop it, the mantra having become "scenery"?
2) At a certain point: How do enlightenment and scenery differ?
3) In deep meditation we favor the mantra to focus the (inner) senses on it. But my closed eyes want to be entertained: So during inner chanting the mantra, I visualize the words "T am". With open eyes it is easier for me to fix them at a ertain point, and I can concentrate better on the mantra, because slowly the energy from the calmed visual system flows to and feeds the concentration on the mantra. What about this?
Thank you very much,
Andreas |
Edited by - AustrianYogi on Mar 30 2008 08:16:39 AM |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2008 : 10:38:39 AM
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Hello from Prague, not that far away :)
1) No.
The mantra may get fainter and fainter and maybe somewhere along the way, there'll be complete stillness, BUT when you CHOOSE not to favor the mantra at any point when you realize you're off it, then that is not deep meditation any longer.
Deep meditation is a structured practice with given rules and some highly probable results. If you break the rules, it becomes a different practice and it might be less effective, or might work in a different way.
2) We use "scenery" as a necessary concept to explain deep meditation and to ensure that people don't get lost in their experiences along the way. That's all there is to it, I think. How is "scenery" different from another concept (enlightenment) doesn't matter. With practice, we can dissolve the question in our silence and carry on :)
3) I'd say consider it as any other sensory input or thought or distraction - back to mantra, again and again, no exceptions :) |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2008 : 10:41:31 AM
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Hello Andreas
Good questions 
Some suggestions to ponder:
quote:
1) After favoring the mantra over days, weeks, month etc., will there be a time when we have to drop the mantra, for the aim of complete stillness?
The whole reason I meditate is to....become more integrated outside of meditation. It is the life I live...here...within the ordinary day....that is gradually transformed by the practise. In meditation.....after some practise.....the mantra has a way of "fuzzing" itself (if you let it), so that the one meditating and the meditation itself melts together. I don't have to think about the mantra then (just say it) - only listen to it......and come back to it if I wander off. I - me - will not ever benefit from "dropping" the mantra. If i drop the mantra; then this very effort will cloud the stillness. All that will be beneficial for me, is the favouring of the gentle sound. It will always be like this for me.
This is not to say that merging with silence doesn't happen during meditation. It does. But it is always spontanious. And if you notice it, and start commenting on the stillness you are in, then immediately you cloud it. Stay still if it happens. You then are the mantra.
After having meditated for many years (and perhaps lives) (this is of course individual....some experience it sooner), this spontanious merging with stillness happens also outside of meditation. This is beautiful - for then it can impact all of life. But even after this happens, it is beneficial...and wise....and loving....to continue a daily practise. It is like a prayer that your heart is called to say.
This is an opinion, of course. But so far, it is true for my particular outcome - and I can only speak from that.
quote:
2) At a certain point: How do enlightenment and scenery differ?
I know nothing about enlightenment.....I don't know how it is defined in you.
But if you are asking: "How do awakenness and scenery differ?"
then....let's see...
First of all.....the "certain point" that you speak of....is always NOW.
When you are totally aware....to the extent that no commenting/judging is taking place...and no emotion is disturbing the silence.....then.....NOW the seeing happens. It is a state (not static, but vibrantly alive) of immense clarity that....lets...everything that is seen....explain itself. Everything is explicit.....the instant the seeing happens.....all that is to be understood....is immediately understood. Not in words.....but in depth.....it is just simply tasted. There is immense Joy...the essence that understands....is joyful - in and of itself. It is not that it is "taken" with what it sees (as in the object)......it is just in love with the very seeing itself. When finally understood - then it is also seen as emanating from the objects. However, the love that is the awakenness is what is always sought "out there" ....in the scenery.....but is never found there first. Things come and go before the Eye. But - no matter what you see....no matter how beautiful...how angelic.....nothing of it compares to the loving seeing itself.
And you are that.
quote:
3) In deep meditation we favor the mantra to focus the (inner) senses on it. But my closed eyes want to be entertained: So during inner chanting the mantra, I visualize the words "T am".
Well - we all have different cravings, don't we?......
What happens if you gently refuse to entertain the closed eyes? Do you become bored? Agitated?
Whatever it is....just stay with the "rebellion" until you can manage to favour the mantra again, Andreas. Watch the disturbance if you can't come back to the mantra. And then - the instant you can - come back. See?
It is the resonance of the mantra that is....making it possible for you to....be touched by silence. The resonance. Not the mental image. That is scenery. So....can you just favour the mantra? Can you favour it, although your mind craves otherwise?
That would be a blessing to you and all 
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2008 : 10:43:28 AM
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| We posted at the same time, tadeas.... |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2008 : 4:02:51 PM
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Tis a popular misconception to confuse silence with silence.
What this means? It means nothing. Now go into that nothing. Though don't think it actually means nothing. :) |
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AustrianYogi
Austria
31 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2008 : 07:47:43 AM
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Thank you for your answers, thank you for making it clear. Thank you.
Andreas from Vienna, Austria |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
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Deep Meditation - the Process
