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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 29 2005 : 10:26:36 AM
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Hi all:
From my email today:
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Q:
I have been doing meditation in the AYP method for the last 8 months. I still cannot keep my mind on the mantra. My mind wanders a lot and these days I cannot seem to meditate for than 10 mins.. my mind just wont co-cooperate. At the most I can keep the mantra for 6 or 7 secs...and then I am lost... come back..and maybe another 6 or 7 secs. Am I doing something wrong? How will I ever progress at this rate. Is this common... after 8 months to be meditating like a beginner. I have never been able to keep my mind on the mantra for more than 10 sec. and that had not improved in the least bit over the 8 months. However I could easily sit for 20 mins before but now after 10 my mind just wont go back to the mantra... my eyes open and my mind almost refuses to co-operate. I must be doing something wrong....How do I keep my mind on the mantra for more than 10 secs and how do I go back to my 20 mins?
A:
The object of meditation is not to stay on the mantra. It is to easily favor it when we realize we are off it. Big difference. Losing the mantra is the name of the game. With that, the mind goes to stillness. It might be for an infinitesimal second and then back into thoughts and feelings. The thoughts and feelings are the signal that it has happened, so they are a good thing. Then when we realize we are in thoughts, we just pick up the mantra again wherever we left off. We do not hang onto the mantra. It will go away and that is perfect. Neither do we hang onto thoughts and feelings. We do not hang on to anything. We do not analyze during our meditation. We just do the procedure.
I think the new Deep Meditation book is pretty clear on this. Maybe review it again. It is always good to have confirmation on what the practice is. The mind can make it complicated in 1000 ways. It always comes back to the simplicity of the procedure -- picking the mantra up when we realize we are off it. It may happen only once in a session. Or it may happen 100 times in a session. It doesn't matter. That is the procedure no matter what happens. And that is what will give us the result -- growing inner silence in our life.
If there is restlessness that makes if difficult to effortlessly pick up the mantra, we can stop and just be with the sensations for a few minutes. Just being with the strong sensations will help the purification that is going on to complete itself. Then when things settle down, we can go back to the mantra.
Make sure to take adequate rest before getting up after meditation. That is important. No matter how the purification goes in our meditation session, the test will be in how we feel afterward in activity. If there is some roughness in activity, then we may need to self-pace our practice a bit until things smooth out. It is all about purification and opening -- a process we are managing. It is not about sticking on the mantra or anything else except the easy procedure, and then going out and living our life normally in-between meditation sessions.
The number of months, years or decades we are meditating does not translate into more time with the mantra. The procedure will not change. Over time, the experience will change inside and outside meditation as our nervous system becomes more pure inside. Then we will lose the mantra even quicker! We will close our eyes and be gone into inner silence. It is not something we can judge or regulate. It will be what it will be. What we do have control over is how we meditate each day, and that is very simple, yes?
You are doing just fine. You will know when to inch your session time back up as the process of purfication smooths out. You are wise to keep the time tempered to suit the situation.
All of this is in the little blue book. Just let the process do its thing. Good things are happening. 
The guru is in you.
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2005 : 2:33:38 PM
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Once I asked a guru type guy who has been meditating since years. How does it feel in meditation when we advance, with respect to the thoughts. He told me that thoughts will still come but they come more quickly and go off more quickly. Just like quick flashes. Just like when we are travelling in the train, how the outside scenery quickly appears and disappears in the periphery while we read a book.
Genes are a result of karma RATHER THAN A CAUSE OF IT - Yogani |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2005 : 5:55:34 PM
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Yogani,
I have been meditating for a year and it seems to be working well, I have over this time come to experience more stillness and stability both during meditation and in daily life. You state that the procedure is working best when we regularly lose the mantra in thoughts and then pick it up again. And that the only thing we do actively during the meditation is to easily pick it up when we have lost it, and not try to create stillness or any space where the mind resides (even when doing the mantra) or have any expectation of stillness or anything else.
For me, if I only do the prescribed active part, then I have a tendency go into a concentration mode on the mantra where it rings continuously and I get absorbed into it, and no thoughts will come. The absorption could then easily become stronger and last for the rest of the 20 minutes, and then we lose the optimum way for the meditation to proceed. However, if I gently introduce the preference "let the mind be relaxed" as needed once in a while during the meditation then I can avoid getting into this concentration mode and then thoughts come and I pick up the mantra again. Is this introduction of relaxation allowed? |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 11:54:31 AM
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Hi Weaver:
It sounds like you are having good results with the mantra without interrupting the process to introduce the thought "let the mind be relaxed." So I do not recommend adding that extra thought, which is a move to less inner silence not more. It is not necessary to keep picking the mantra up over and over if you are absorbed in it. It is okay to be absorbed like that. It is not concentration. It is samadhi, which is absorption in inner silence.
In Patanjali's yoga sutra's it is a three stage process comprising the last three of the eight limbs of yoga:
1. Concentration - attention on an object (dharana)
2. Meditation - dissolving of the object (dhyana)
3. Absorption - pure bliss consciousness with no object (samadhi)
All of these are included in our easy deep meditation procedure. First we pick up the mantra (1). We don't try and keep it as a rock solid clear pronunciation -- we just easily repeat it inside, letting it go how it will to less and less distinctiveness (2). At some point we will lose the mantra completely (3). Then we will be out again on some thoughts or feelings and pick it up again (1). Or, if we stay in (3) for the entire session, that is fine. We don't have to deliberately pick up a thought to come out so we can pick up the mantra again. In fact, if we do that, we have had a thought already, and that is the time to pick up the mantra instead (1). We can do this in a very fuzzy way, with the mantra barely touched as a faint impulse. Wherever we left off in clarity of pronunciation is where we pick up the mantra again. That is the easiest, most natural and effective way to be going inward. It is highly efficient. As soon as we become passive in the process (like "observing" or "relaxing"), we are losing the natural inward momentum set up by the mantra procedure. It is not a plus to diverge in this way.
In the end, concentration, meditation and samadhi are all happening in virtually the same place in the mind/body, blended with inner silence. That is where you appear to be in the process you described. It is the same mantra procedure going forward from there. No change is necessary.
Keep in mind that your meditations will not likely stay in this mode all the time. As purification advances, the experience will change. You may find yourself back out in surface thoughts at any time, like the original inquirer above. It is not a bad thing. And she can find herself in absorption at any time too. It is all part of the process of purification going forward. The experience will change over time. Guaranteed!
It is very important that the procedure with the mantra not change through all this. If we keep adjusting the procedure to what we think fits our experience in the moment, we will not have a stable and effective long term practice. And that is a big "uh oh."
Interestingly, samyama utilizes the same three limbs of yoga going in the reverse direction -- from inside outward. When we have developed to the point where we can have 1, 2 and 3 happening more or less in the same place (translation: some degree of resident inner silence), then we can initiate and release thoughts in inner silence and they will boomerang out, greatly amplified, through our nervous system and into the world. This is how stillness moves into action. It is a morally self-regulating process because neither ego nor negative intentions exist in our infinite field of pure bliss consciousness. As time goes on, this process of intentions flying out from inner silence becomes an avalanche of divine love flowing out from us into the world. And here we are!
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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darvish
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 3:16:54 PM
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I have an additional question regarding the mantra. Since the mantra is not coupled with the breath, I am curious at what kind of interval people are mentally saying the mantra. Do you say it very fast or every few seconds or so?
Also, where does one focus when repeating the mantra? Do you keep the eyes focused between the eyebrows and listen to the mantra in the headspace or could one drop attention to the heart area and repeat it there?
Thanks! |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 3:28:04 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Sometimes when I meditate my mind is quiet so I think the mantra, then my mind is quiet again with no thoughts, so I repeat the mantra again, it seems a bit mechanical and I don't feel the mantra going anywhere to quieter levels, the repitition is like the one before with relative silence in between. So the only noise is me saying the mantra. This seems odd to me, should I wait in the silence for thoughts to come up or just go back to the mantra even if nothing floats by? Maybe the idea is what you point out above getting the mantra to go to quieter levels?
Other times, I say the mantra and I go on a mini bliss-trip and am aware I am off of it but just can't bring myself back instantly without forcing, so I take the trip, then when I finish I do the mantra again. These are easier meditations where there is a flow here so it feels natural.
I know you have covered mantra meditation up, down and sideways in the lessons and with further elaboration in the new Deep Meditation book and the message is always come back to the mantra but in the 1st paragraph example, it feels a little contrived, any thought would be appreciated.
A
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2005 : 10:45:43 PM
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Hi Darvish and Anthem:
There is no set rhythm for repetition. Whatever is comfortable, and it can change according to purification going on. No set location for the mantra either. It can locate or not for the same reason. We do not favor any particular rhythm or location. If one happens, fine, but we do not hang on to it. We don't hang on to anything, not even the mantra at any particular level. We let the attention slide ever deeper into inner silence with the ever disappearing mantra. This is covered from quite a few angles in the Deep Meditation book.
On mechanical repetition of the mantra in silence, yes, letting it go to less is the way, and picking it up as less when we realize we have gone off it. We don't stop and watch when we know we can continue with the mantra. Btw, noticing characteristics such as these (and the knee-jerk analyses of the mind) are signs of the re-emergence of thoughts and, hence, the signal to go back to the you-know-what. 
The guru is in you.
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2005 : 12:00:59 AM
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Thank you Yogani for this description of the process. Today I let myself go along and become absorbed into the mantra, and I stayed with it in an easy way basically all the time. The interesting thing is then, as the meditation progressed, that the mantra became extremely faint and modified itself, and there was a great, tangible stillness around. Also, there were very faint thoughts but they didn't conflict with the mantra. I was still somewhat aware of noises from the outer physical surroundings but they didn't disturb much, since I never lost physical awareness.
Now, I had the notion before that it was beneficial (since someone had warned in the forum against getting into concentration on the mantra) to let the mind relax to a point where subconscious dream-like thoughts would come up with some regularity, and then pick up the mantra when this happened, somehow I thought that the mantra needed to be able to come down and purify the subconscious mind. When this happened I always became disturbed by any external noises, because of the need to relax the mind, and since physical awareness is lost temporarily. But this procedure is obviously wrong, and I am grateful to have this cleared up. |
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WhiteCrane38
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 4:03:18 PM
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I was glad to see this quote as i have had quite frequent episodes of fast thoughts racing through my meditation. Its more like fast vibrations actually that sort of break into peices here and there. But i have noticed that when these thoughts/vibrations calm down the stillness follows very easily, extremely nice and calm. So i would say it is an advantage to have them actually. I hope that this brings some comfort to the meditator who originaly emailed Yogani.
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WhiteCrane38
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 4:10:18 PM
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| I take it Yogani that when we are in Samahdi we are completely aware at all times, a realisation that we are within the silence? |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 5:30:25 PM
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quote:
...a realisation that we are within the silence?
Hi WhiteCrane, and welcome!
...a realization that we are the silence. Not an intellectual realization, but a permanent experience of that. It first comes as an experience of "witnessing," and expands from there.
The guru is in you.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 6:19:20 PM
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Hi Gents,
Just remember that if you are meditating in the manner that Yogani is describing that most meditations will be different and no two meditations will be the same.Whatever experiences you get are correct for you as an individual at that moment.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Procedure with Mantra
