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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 11 2006 : 11:51:44 AM
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http://www.adyashanti.org
If you run into Adyashanti, and his wife Annie, in the grocery store (as a good friend of mine did, recently - yes, it was Whole Foods ...  ) - you're much more likely to have the impression of somebody's amiable next door neighbor, rather than having the impression of a spiritual teacher who is rapidly becoming known throughout the country, and throughout the world.
Most well-known Western "gurus" either follow an Eastern path, primarily - or develop their own system and philosophy (example: Gurdjieff).
In my experience, Adyashanti is unique - and a rare jewel among spiritual teachers, in that you don't have to be interested in yoga, eastern thought, God, or any specific flavor of God, to benefit from Adya and his teachings - you only have to be interested in reality.
And mean it.
Adyashanti doesn't initiate disciples, though he has many students who refer to him as their primary spiritual teacher.
He grew up in a regular home in the San Francisco Bay Area, and spent fifteen years practicing Zen Buddhism, at which time (as he describes it), "Oops -- I awakened out of Zen!"
If you've never been exposed to Adyashanti, I highly suggest visiting his site - specifically the Teachings section, and specifically the video clips and/or audio -- you can get a "feel" for him from those clips.
http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=teachings
I also highly recommend his book "Emptiness Dancing", as a solid augmentation to any spiritual information you study or have studied.
http://www.adyashanti.org - I couldn't get the "Bookstore" link from his site to paste correctly -- so please just visit the main link, and then click on Bookstore.
And I personally find great value not only in his teachings, but in the energy of his presence (experienced profoundly as recently as last Wednesday evening).
And finally, if you're interested in an example (other than Yogani ... ) who is from the West, and who has "made it" -- and still primarily lives a "regular life" (drives a Toyota, goes to the grocery store, goes to the emergency room when he drops a 10lb. steel weight on his finger, etc.) ... I highly recommend Adya as a literally shining example!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2006 : 5:33:55 PM
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Kirtanman,
I had a quick look and I'm positively impressed so far.
From what I can see so far, among high-profile 'gurus' he seems to stand out as neither having an inflated self-mythology, nor sh1t for brains. Which is saying A LOT. That's a rare combination.
Let's hope he doesn't get 'the disease'. Please don't give it to him, anyone.....
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2006 : 8:33:52 PM
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| I really like Adyashanti too. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2006 : 10:09:35 PM
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Me 4, I've listened to a fair amount of his stuff as well, really enjoy it and think he speaks the truth. Thanks for the reference Kirtanman.
peace brothers, (<- I just felt like using some "new agey" colloquialism )
A
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 4:38:54 PM
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| Yep, I like that guy! =) He really comes through in the video clips! Thanks a lot for introducing him, Kirtanman! |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2006 : 8:01:23 PM
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Kirtanman,
I have read Adyashanti's teachings too on his site and I like what I read, and he appears genuine. I haven't seen him write about kundalini, so if you talk to him I thought it could be interesting to know if he also has gone through kundalini awakening and have ecstasy merge with inner silence to reach enlightenment, like Yogani describes. Or, if he has gone through another route. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 03:01:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by weaver
Kirtanman,
I have read Adyashanti's teachings too on his site and I like what I read, and he appears genuine. I haven't seen him write about kundalini, so if you talk to him I thought it could be interesting to know if he also has gone through kundalini awakening and have ecstasy merge with inner silence to reach enlightenment, like Yogani describes. Or, if he has gone through another route.
Actually, he has spoken about it, but very subtly -- and I have literally been meaning to talk with him about it. When a person chats with him during Satsang, they audiotape it - so when I do, I'll get the tape, so that I can give a good report of what he has to say.
Per a few lines I've read in Emptiness Dancing, i.e. [paraphrasing] "In Zen, we used to say that if you sit facing a wall long enough, things will happen - and they did to me -- I had visions, Kundalini experiences, blissful experiences, terrifying experiences - but they were all still experiences. The truth is not an experience. It can only be experienced - but is not an experience." -- my guess is that Adya ultimately went through the same neurophysiological evolution that we're all in the midst of ... my guess is, it's a necessity - I don't think there is another route.
There are other starting points, to be sure .... the Hindu (Sanatana Dharma) expression, "There are a thousand paths, and they all lead to God" - is more than just a nice catchphrase - it's a powerful pointer to the truth.
It's kind of like, if the goal is New York, and you're on the west coast of the United States, you can start at any point, but before long, you'll be on I-(for Interstate)-8, or I-10, or I-80, or I-84, or I-90 ... but before you're (roughly) 3/4 of the way there, you'll probably be on I-80 ... and if your end point is a given address in New York City ... you'll be on the same road as all fellow travelers, before you arrive -- and when you arrive -- you're there!
("Wherever you go, well, there you are!")
so, "Like That".
Zen seems to be primarily a "Jnana"-ish, inquiry-based path ... closed yogic equivalents are the Advaitic leanings of Nisargadatta, Ramana, and Kashmiri Shaivism (a la the Vijnanabhairava Tantra) -- all asking "Who Am I?" until the answer ... IS (though the inquiry isn't designed to produce an answer, but to take the questioner deeper into the questioner, until the fallacy of the existence of the questioner becomes ... clear).
There's a lot of Bhakti in Zen, too, though --- Adya says that his gratitude for his lineage of teachers is so powerful, and touches a place so infinitely tender within him, that he cannot speak of it, without weeping.
However (big however) - as mentioned at the start of the thread ... Adya points out often that when awakening happened in the realm of "his" body-mind ... there was awakening "out of" Zen as well.
As the Buddha (or someone attributing comments to him ...) said [paraphrasing] - "When you use a raft to get to the other shore, you don't carry the raft around on your back forever, after arriving".
But again, my humble theory is: a human body *must* go through the evolution Yogani describes so well, via AYP - and other yogic teachers have pointed to, for ages.
Unevolved bodies - those which have not completed the second puberty - don't have bodies that can conduct the neurophysiological energy, either in terms of power or specifics, that enable living a life of Oneness and Love -- any more than a young child can conduct / transmit sexual energy (it may be latent, but it's certainly not actual, nor or their bodies capable) -- very similar (again, per my theory; don't know if it's correct).
Namaste,
Kirtanman
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 03:04:51 AM
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Thanks All - glad you're all enjoying!
Off to pack, and get far too little sleep!
(Yes, you may start the violins ....)
: )
Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - Per my last post, responding to whether Adya went through the neurophysiological evolution AYP addresses ... if Yogani is hovering about in "omniscient non-guru-ish forum moderator mode" ... maybe he has a comment or two? (And maybe not .... : ) ).
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 10:10:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
But again, my humble theory is: a human body *must* go through the evolution Yogani describes so well, via AYP - and other yogic teachers have pointed to, for ages.
Thanks much Kirtanman for your comments on this! As always, your writings are most enjoyable to follow.
About the process of kundalini awakening, refinement and merging with silence, there is of course always the possibility, in Adyashanti's case and others, that they may have had most of this happened in previous lives, to be born pretty "clean" in this one, and therefore may not have much (recent) recollection of it. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2006 : 12:34:31 PM
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Hi Kirtanman:
Yes, I agree that the process of enlightenment is the same everywhere, determined by the inherent capabilities in the human nervous system, rather than by any particular approach.
Of course, different approaches may "bring it on" in different orders of manifestation (some easier to traverse than others), but eventually all the steps have to be gone through, leading to the integration of inner silence and ecstatic energy awakening we talk about so much here.
Your comments on Adyashanti point to the presence of an energy awakening in conjunction with the rise of stillness/Oneness/no-thingness. Not having traveled the Zen path, I can't offer further corroboration, but do find a kinship and loving affection for his condition. I believe we stand on the threshold of many thousands entering this same condition. Won't that be something?
I'm currently finishing up the next AYP Enlightenment Series book on Asanas, Mudras, Bandhas & Kundalini, and have been describing all of this from the other side this time around -- weaving physical methods into an overall routine centered on sitting practices, including spinal breathing, deep meditation, samyama, etc. And then looking at the energy awakening from the neurobiological side, and tracing it back into the emergence of Oneness/Unity. Hopefully this will be helpful to the many out there these days practicing mainly physical yoga.
No matter what our path, "experiences" will be a two-edged sword. To move forward we will have them. Yet, to engage in experiences as "the enlightenment" at the expense of our practices will tend to stall our progress. Spiritual progress does not come from experiences. It comes from practices reaching beyond experiences. A very important point that is not lost on the Zen folks, or on anyone who is engaged in effective spiritual practices.
Paradoxically, enlightenment is not an experience. It is becoming that which is beyond all experience, and thereby becoming the experience itself, which then manifests as outpouring divine love in the world.
The different traditions deal with the inevitable rise of energy experiences in different ways. How they deal with this phenomenon has a large impact on how successful they may be in shepherding folks on through to enlightenment.
Unlike the few people who come into this life more or less ready for enlightenment (I agree with you on that, Weaver), many of us may have a longer road to travel with energy experiences associated with the purification and opening occurring in our nervous system. So it is good if we can understand what these experiences are ("scenery") so we can stay the course, preferably while enjoying ourselves along the way. Ultimately, experiences are transcended, and integrated into the divine purpose, which is stillness in action.
This is what we see in realized people from any tradition. Bring them on!
The guru is in you.
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Sep 29 2006 : 03:07:48 AM
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| Ady's awesome. His approach reminds us to smile as we look in the mirror while we brush our teeth. That's the point of brushing teeth, the beauty, warmth and heart melting of a smile. |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2006 : 03:29:11 AM
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| Awesome. Those videos is exactly what I needed. Ofcourse, I needed nothing :) |
Edited by - Chiron on Oct 10 2006 04:56:57 AM |
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Cloud Recluse
11 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2007 : 8:01:47 PM
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Very gratifying to see the interest in Adyashanti on this site.Im a bit of an Adya 'fan' myself,& currently my only regular practice consists of Hatha Yoga & the Just Sitting approach described by Adya.Now,having discovered Yoganis lessons,Im becoming eager to incorporate them somehow,which leaves me with a question.
Now Just Sitting basically consists of about 40 minutes comfortable posture,keeping the attention within the kinesthetic-sensory sphere.This is to prevent any excessive drifting off into thought,but without attention being tightly 'fixed' on any one point.Attention is more or less free to 'roam' within that sphere,as long as it doesnt fixate,following its own natural inclination.The idea here is that compulsivity can naturally wind down in its own time,without any dramatic struggle or schedule being imposed on it by the ego.
A consequence of this for me is that any one session of sitting can 'wander' through quite a range of experinces,from superficail noise to deep silence,which is fine in & of itself.The point being,deep Silence is not striven for,but simply allowed to occur in its own time.
If I wish to add Yoganis spinal practices to my routine,would it be necessary to include the I AM mantra to,in effect, guarantee a deep Silence in each session? Or would Just Sitting be adequate to process any unleashed energies ? I suspect Im actually quite sensitive to energy practices,& am wary of any potential overloading.
If anyone could give me feedback on this,I would be most appreciative.
Regards,Cloud
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2007 : 10:07:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cloud Recluse
If I wish to add Yoganis spinal practices to my routine,would it be necessary to include the I AM mantra to,in effect, guarantee a deep Silence in each session? Or would Just Sitting be adequate to process any unleashed energies ? I suspect Im actually quite sensitive to energy practices,& am wary of any potential overloading.
Hi Cloud,
Welcome to the forum.
To answer your question.. it would be nice if you did add the deep meditation to your routine after spinal breathing. The 2 practices kinda go hand in glove.. however, if your current practice of 40 mins of sitting in silence and keeping your focus within the sphere works for you.. you can keep it... and add spinal breathing before it.
If you do add deep meditation though, doing both deep meditation and your awareness routine may have a doubling up effect... so keep an eye on how things are going for you during the rest of the day. If, after you add deep meditation to your existing practice you feel groggy, disoriented, irritated, sluggish.. you will have to adjust your practice... here in AYP we call it self pacing.
It is always better to stop your other practices when you start the AYP routines (which may not be for long.. a week or 2 is enough at time.. sometimes it may be more).. till you know how they feel.. and then add the other stuff back in if you think it's required.
Cloud, if you are happy with your current practice, then stick to it... just add 5 mins of spinal breathing before it and see how it feels.. If the energy level increases too much.. and your current meditation routine is not helping settle it.. you could switch to deep meditation. But it is preferable not to mix different kinds of practices, at least not in the beginning.
Wish you all the best in your chosen path.
Here is what Yogani said in another thread
quote:
Of course, you are welcome to experiment with integrations of practice, especially if a time savings can be achieved without significant loss of results, or while improving results! That is one of the primary themes of "R&D" in AYP. However, as Shanti points out, the results of mixing practices from multiple systems can be unpredictable -- "doubling up" effect, especially with pranayama. So any such forays will be your own R&D, whether you are doing the practices in sequence, or combined. Nothing wrong with doing R&D if you have a good foundation in practices (especially deep meditation/inner silence), are motivated, and have a good knowledge of "self-pacing" in your back pocket. There also has to be a willingness to occasionally travel a bumpy road in the interest of science.
Keep in mind that long term effects may not mirror short term effects, so the most meaningful experiments will be the ones that last many months. Please report back here with whatever you find.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2007 : 03:35:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cloud Recluse
Very gratifying to see the interest in Adyashanti on this site.Im a bit of an Adya 'fan' myself,& currently my only regular practice consists of Hatha Yoga & the Just Sitting approach described by Adya.Now,having discovered Yoganis lessons,Im becoming eager to incorporate them somehow,which leaves me with a question.
Now Just Sitting basically consists of about 40 minutes comfortable posture,keeping the attention within the kinesthetic-sensory sphere.This is to prevent any excessive drifting off into thought,but without attention being tightly 'fixed' on any one point.Attention is more or less free to 'roam' within that sphere,as long as it doesnt fixate,following its own natural inclination.The idea here is that compulsivity can naturally wind down in its own time,without any dramatic struggle or schedule being imposed on it by the ego.
A consequence of this for me is that any one session of sitting can 'wander' through quite a range of experinces,from superficail noise to deep silence,which is fine in & of itself.The point being,deep Silence is not striven for,but simply allowed to occur in its own time.
If I wish to add Yoganis spinal practices to my routine,would it be necessary to include the I AM mantra to,in effect, guarantee a deep Silence in each session? Or would Just Sitting be adequate to process any unleashed energies ? I suspect Im actually quite sensitive to energy practices,& am wary of any potential overloading.
If anyone could give me feedback on this,I would be most appreciative.
Regards,Cloud
Hi Cloud,
Welcome to the Forum.
As you may have noticed at the beginning of this thread, I'm the person who introduced the AYP community to Adyashanti.
Ultimately, as both Adya and Yogani have said many times, in just slightly different words, "the guru is in you" -- and your own inner knowing can and will guide you, as far as the best exact mix of practices - and especially (I dealt with this myself) with respect to integrating any existing practices with AYP - or whether to drop them, and go "pure AYP" (or vice-versa, and not adopt AYP practices. <--- meaning, simply: there's a full spectrum of choice, available to everyone, relatively speaking.)
I agree with Shweta's (Shanti) comments - if you add in spinal breathing, please do it first. One of the most powerful aspects of AYP, is the specific timing and nature of each practice -- Yogani has done an excellent, and clearly powerful job of defining and refining the order of practices, the timing (how long, when to introduce, etc.) and so on.
So, if you start practicing AYP - I believe everyone here would recommend sticking as close to the specific instructions as possible, in order to get the best results.
I would also comment that using the mantra isn't at odds with allowing things to be -- for many of us, the mantra is actually a very useful tool, in terms of training the mind to have the discipline to allow things to be as they are - thereby creating an environment (between our own two ears) where deeper silence can be experienced - more fully, and more quickly.
I've attended Adya's satsangs for the last several years - so have heard his overview of meditation many times (which boils down to: just sit there, and allow everything to be as it is, because anything else is an attempt to do something, which is a habit it would serve most of us to break.)
Personally, I don't disagree with Adya in any way (not because he's an enlightened teacher - but just because I honestly agree with his points.) However, as with most of what Adya teaches - I don't hear any rigidity in his overview which would not allow for inclusion of a mantra - especially if our own inner guidance tells us it's a good idea.
In fact, I've found the combination of the two things - using the mantra, and also allowing everything to be as it is - to be the best of both worlds, so to speak.
Example: if the mantra fades, replaced by thoughts of breakfast - rather than kicking ourselves, or feeling weak - we peacefully allow those thoughts to be present, with every bit as much acceptance as if we were repeating the mantra - while, upon noticing the drift - gently returning to the mantra, as Yogani instructs.
And, as you may know by reading the lessons: there are specific benefits to our nervous system, as well as spiritually / "consciousness-wise" - to repeating the mantra.
I personally have found AYP practices to allow for a quantum leap in awakening; all the things that Adya talks and writes about - namely: realizing our true nature -- have become much, much more a part of my daily life since adopting AYP.
So, in my experience, the two sets of teachings can harmonize perfectly - and what exactly that "looks like" will be shown to you by your own inner guru.
When asked for the umpteen-zillionth time by someone how he knew what to do, and how he could say he didn't have anxiety about the future, etc. etc. --- Adya replied, "Easy - I know what I need to know, when I need to know it."
As Yogani would say:
"Like That."
Again, welcome to the forum - I hope that overview is helpful.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
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Cloud Recluse
11 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2007 : 02:13:33 AM
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Shanti & Kirtanman
Big Thanx for your replies
Not having had the pleasure of speaking with Adyashanti directly,its gratifying to get feedback from those who have.
Im actually going on a short holiday for a fortnight with lots of alone time,so it will be a good time to try the I AM,& see how I go from there (the only thing is no internet access,but Im quite heedful of Yoganis advice on pacing yourself,so I dont forsee any problems there).
I suppose I really want to make sure that I am well set up to process any energy,so for now I am looking at refining Silence.Ive decided to let that sink in a bit before trying Spinal breathing.
Im quite looking forward to all this actually
Regards,Cloud |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2007 : 11:15:19 AM
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Cloud,
Good to see you here! I like to think of the situation like a cook who owns several good cookbooks. With experience, the cook will settle into a certain groove which will often incorporate a recipe or two from more than one book.
-Yoda
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Cloud Recluse
11 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2007 : 11:29:46 PM
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Yoda,its good to "see" a familiar face.
I guess you could say that what I like about Yoganis 'cookbook' is the sheer clarity of it all.Straightforward & informative,a fairly rare quality I think.I must confess that Ive found the sheer amount & complexity of material on Daoist Internal Alchemy a bit overwhelming & difficult to digest (I must admit to being a bit of an impatient simpleton in this respect),whereas Yoganis presentation is immediately accesible.
And as I have found myself to be 'lurking ' quite a bit on this site,I decided it wa stime to do the decent thing & become visible.
Regards,Cloud. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2007 : 06:13:45 AM
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Being in a receptive state of unknowingness is precursory to reach the true destination of nothingness, but isn't the end of the path, but a paradoxical beginning.
God is unknowable, in essence, but His attributes will be apparent in those that have reached the destination. Christ likened this to a reed, Krishna a flute, Baha'u'llah a Mirror, Hermes a Dweller and so on. All equated the necessary requisite striving and intense fortitude needed to reach the destination and All demonstrated the Power of the Kingdom, as attested to Their Superior Knowingness, Divine Intellectual Capacities, Unearthly Rational Faculties - whose Universal Fruits were apparent to everyone around them, whether skeptic or believer, and encapsulated the past, present and future [AUM]. This is Universal Oneness. This is the Power of God.
In other words, these Pinnacles of Wisdom were fully aware of abstruse matters related to all forms of existence, whether these be physical or spiritual [IE: Hermes was well aware of all sciences], and All were perfectly/rationally/logically aware of the deeper meaning of all things and understanding veiled in allegorical symbology or parable dependent on the intellectual capacity/receptivity of the generation at the time.
The true meaning of the word "nothingness" is used as a comparative term in relation to the Unknowable Source of All things, in its essence, particular to these Dawning Places of Reality. In other words, they were as "nothingness", as compared to the Unknowable Source of all things and yet were "everything" in comparison to all other Kingdoms: Mineral, vegetable, animal, human.
So, we could say that the vegetable kingdom is unaware of the animal kingdom and this would be true, since there animal kingdom possesses qualities that are lacking in the vegetable kingdom, such as sense perception, etc., and the same would be true of the Human and Divine Kingdoms. In other words it would be obvious to outward reality that someone possessed complete knowledge inherent to all of these kingdoms of reality, having traversed them Themselves. It isn't simply a question of undoing who we are or pretending that we are pretending that we are something else without purpose. Everything is based on Order and Law and Underlining Reality has Purpose and Intelligence whether we are aware of this or not.
"Thus it is remembered: [O Sun] you who traverse 2202 yojanas in half a nimesa."
Sayana's statement comes very close to the actual speed of light, and has been called the most astonishing "blind hit" in the history of science.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light
Science and Spirituality are one. And when someone has reached Realization they will understand reality. It's not a matter of deduction to a certain state of consciousness or merely being in a state of not knowing. It is logical. It is real. It is not asking someone to believe something that has nothing to do with reality or not knowing it themselves.
This is my contribution, whether considered applicable or not:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Feb 09 2007 07:58:31 AM |
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Cloud Recluse
11 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 06:11:33 AM
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Actually,here is a question about the relationship between Yoganis techniques & Adyashantis perspective.Or perhaps it would be better to call it a peice of speculation.
From my understanding of Adya sofar,he does make a kind of distinction between the initial Falling Awake,with its freedom from the personal,& then ,once one has grown past being "dazzled" by ones newfound personal freedom,the eventual reengagement with the manifest world from the Enlightened perspective.
Now,for some this transition is smooth & quick.For others,it seems to take longer,this shift from revelling in the relief of ones emptiness to embracing the world anew.
Could it be that someone who has gone through the neurological adaption process that Yogani speaks of may perhaps be less hesitant in moving beyond the initial phase of personal freedom-as-emptiness & into freedom-as-unhesitant worldly engagement.Whereas someone who has not done so as a formal purification practice might possibly be less prepared for reengagement.
Now this is not to say that someone who has not done a formal purification practice WILL have reengagement difficulties.And in Adyashantis case purification was not directly sought for,his formal practice was Zen.But perhaps a purification practice tips the odds in ones favour that the reengagement phase will be less daunting,or less uncertain,or something like that.
Anyhow,I hope I havent done disservice to either Yogani or Adyashanti in this peice of speculation,but it is the way Im inclined to think at the moment.Yoganis may be very much a "form" practice,& Adyashantis "formless",but the possible connection Im proposing seems plausible to me (not that Im very experienced though,I must admit).
Any feedback on this ?
Regards,Cloud. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 3:42:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cloud Recluse
Actually,here is a question about the relationship between Yoganis techniques & Adyashantis perspective.Or perhaps it would be better to call it a peice of speculation.
From my understanding of Adya sofar,he does make a kind of distinction between the initial Falling Awake,with its freedom from the personal,& then ,once one has grown past being "dazzled" by ones newfound personal freedom,the eventual reengagement with the manifest world from the Enlightened perspective.
Now,for some this transition is smooth & quick.For others,it seems to take longer,this shift from revelling in the relief of ones emptiness to embracing the world anew.
Could it be that someone who has gone through the neurological adaption process that Yogani speaks of may perhaps be less hesitant in moving beyond the initial phase of personal freedom-as-emptiness & into freedom-as-unhesitant worldly engagement.Whereas someone who has not done so as a formal purification practice might possibly be less prepared for reengagement.
Now this is not to say that someone who has not done a formal purification practice WILL have reengagement difficulties.And in Adyashantis case purification was not directly sought for,his formal practice was Zen.But perhaps a purification practice tips the odds in ones favour that the reengagement phase will be less daunting,or less uncertain,or something like that.
Anyhow,I hope I havent done disservice to either Yogani or Adyashanti in this peice of speculation,but it is the way Im inclined to think at the moment.Yoganis may be very much a "form" practice,& Adyashantis "formless",but the possible connection Im proposing seems plausible to me (not that Im very experienced though,I must admit).
Any feedback on this ?
Regards,Cloud.
Hi Cloud,
Yes.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - But seriously ... - as you may know, I am an enthusiastic student of both Adya and Yogani - and just did a post today (my fairly lengthy one, dated today, in this thread:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1081 ) - which addresses a good portion of your question, I feel. Please check it out - I hope it helps!
And, I do apologize, but have no time now - though may comment a bit more, later.
In general, I'd say:
Adya has mentioned that purification does occur, even "sitting and facing a wall" as they do in Zen - and has specifically referenced vision, kundalini experiences - and several other things which are commonly cited by yogic sadhakas.
Point Being: Neurophysiologically and spiritually, it's very likely that we'll all experience all of it - and that our systems / bodies (physical and subtle) will pass through an ultra-similar evolution.
I personally find that AYP practices help immensely, primarily on a physical and energetic level (as well as "prepping" my body-mind to be able to experience more energy / ecstasy / silence) -- as do Adya's, from an "awareness of mental conditioning and misperceptions" standpoint --- and both Yogani's teachings, and Adya's, have very helpful cross-over, related to each of these things (mentioned in this paragraph).
Ultimately, as Adya says - practices may have nothing to do with the experience of enlightenment ... but as far as getting TO enlightenment -- it is my experience that we can do ourselves a vast amount of favors, and have an infinitely more comfortable ride ... via systems like AYP - while still remembering that ultimately, being IN Enlightenment is simply experiencing and realizing our true nature - and that Realization can never occur anywhere but here, or any time other than Now - so Enlightenment is ultimately nothing more than the dissolution of misperception - all misperception - and can be experienced by anyone, at any time (though this is clearly very, very rare to experience, without significant preparation and purification) - and if there is major awakening / enlightenment, and then the purification is "back-filled" - things will likely be quite uncomfortable for a while, on a "human level".
So, I find that AYP is extremely helpful and enjoyable - as are Adya's teachings -- for all of the above reasons.
The combination of the two helps the journey to be just about as smooth and enjoyable as possible - while still allowing for significant progress - in my happy experience.
Hope that helps!
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shivakm
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 8:24:52 PM
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I came to know about Adyashanti couple of months before. From what little that I have read and listened, I should say that I am positively impressed with his teachings. His teachings are none less than the teachings of the other great enlightened masters. A must read for the people in the path of enlightenment.
Another book/teaching that caught my attention in recent times and made me spell bound was the title "I am That" by Nisargadatta Maharaj. Make sure to check out the reviews of this book on Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...3155&s=books).
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Cloud Recluse
11 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2007 : 06:57:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
[
Ultimately, as Adya says - practices may have nothing to do with the experience of enlightenment ... but as far as getting TO enlightenment -- it is my experience that we can do ourselves a vast amount of favors, and have an infinitely more comfortable ride ... via systems like AYP - while still remembering that ultimately, being IN Enlightenment is simply experiencing and realizing our true nature - and that Realization can never occur anywhere but here, or any time other than Now - so Enlightenment is ultimately nothing more than the dissolution of misperception - all misperception - and can be experienced by anyone, at any time (though this is clearly very, very rare to experience, without significant preparation and purification) - and if there is major awakening / enlightenment, and then the purification is "back-filled" - things will likely be quite uncomfortable for a while, on a "human level".
...
The combination of the two helps the journey to be just about as smooth and enjoyable as possible - while still allowing for significant progress
Well,I think this is pretty much the perspective Im taking Kirtanman.
It just seems to make sense to me that someone who has deliberately pursued purification,even though it was done so unavoidably from an initially "unenlightened" perspective,will be more inclined to embrace & flow with the post-personal enlightenment adaptions.Even though it will going into that territory from a now Enlightened perspective,its still a territory that they have 'accepted' allready on a very deep level due to their previous purification practice.
I suppose thats what Im trying to get at.While guranteeing nothing,& possibly becoming an egoic obsession (as per 'spiritual materialism),surely purification practices would make the individual more 'at home' ,or more inclined to acknowledge,that realm of experience post enlightenment?
So Im thinking that purification somehow 'disposes' you towards the reconciliation of all your material that Enlightenment will eventually require of you.So the phase of coming back 'down to earth' would then hopefully flow more smoothly & directly.Having first Woken Up out of the personal trance,& revelled in that new freedom,one would then Wake Back Down into the World,the 'real' world this time,unencumbered & undistorted by our egotistical demands on it.
So purification helps us to 'follow through' from first Waking Up to Waking Down back into the world.Yeah?
Regards,Cloud
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ajna
India
59 Posts |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 12:09:55 AM
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Hi Cloud,
Sorry for not responding sooner; I've been in the midst of major move, and related challenges.
Good comments, and in essence, I agree with you.
I think Adya's emphasis regarding the fact that practices aren't directly connected with being enlightened, stems from the vast compassion which attends true enlightenment -- he just doesn't want to see any sadhakas tripped up for the rest of a lifetime (or several) by thinking that any one system is "it", or that there's anything to do, to realize enlightenment.
Being a yogic sadhaka, I had a hard time with this myself - but I knew I felt a very authentic resonance with both Adya and AYP ... and just "kept on keeping on" with both sets of teachings ... and then recently, the fog cleared and I "got" it (and surprise, surprise - Adya just happened to make the most clear public statements I have yet heard him make on this topic, right around that time).
He said (few weeks back) - "Essentially, what I've been saying is that what gets you to the doorway, has nothing to do with what's on the other side of the doorway ... 'all baggage must be checked' ... practices may offer some assistance in getting enlightened - but they don't have a whole lot to do with being enlightened."
And, as he has tongue-in-cheekily said before, "If all spiritual systems worked anywhere near as well as they claimed, we'd be up to our asses in enlightened people!"
He recently offered the key to that one, too:
"It's a quality I would call earnestness ... you really want the Truth ... more than anything ... as Arvis (Justi, one of Adya's two teachers) used to say, 'Only the phonies don't get enlightened'"
You may have heard this idea mentioned elsewhere ... for instance, near the very beginning of the AYP Lessons ... Yogani just uses the original term ..... "Bhakti".
Part of the basis for my hypothesis (that Adya emphasizes that realization of who we really are isn't based on practices) is that Adya is far from alone in being very emphatic about this; Advaitins ranging from the modern (Nisargadatta, Ramana) to the ancient (Patanjali) - and certainly a whole host of yogic / Buddhist teachers ... say the same thing.
The Yoga Sutras make a major point of describing the Prakriti Layas - yogis so advanced that they literally become God to their own Universe permeating All with their God consciousness - forming worlds, creating life, and reveling in the unspeakable ecstatic bliss thereof ....
... and then whacks the reader / listener "upside the head" with the fact that these yo-yos are the biggest losers in all of yogadom, because they've managed to miss the entire point .... and are still identified with the illusion - that which is transient - even if it's an entire Universe ... and can therefore not hope to be Realized for many eonic cycles. Whether or not this is literally true - it's a powerful story ... and one that helps us realize the vast importance of Bhakti - and having a sincere heart that wants Truth - and not any "abilities", or cool "powers".
And don't get me wrong; I enjoy exotic scenery as much as the next guy or gal ... truly ... there's some awesome stuff "in there" -- but I've learned to simply enjoy, "ooh and ahh" (etc. ETC. etc. ) - as applicable ... and keep right on goin' .... because for me, it IS about Reality -- gotta have it, period.
It's not that nothing else will suffice --- nothing else even freakin' matters.
Adya says that out of all the aspects of what helped enlightenment to be realized in that body-mind, the one thing for which he is most grateful ... is that at several key points "along the way", where many sadhakas (in Adya's words) - "plant their flag in the ground", and say "this is it - this is enlightenment!" ... there was this "little voice" which said ... "this isn't it .... keep on going".
I would agree - and fully credit bhakti / earnestness as the source of the voice.
If you want it sincerely, Life won't let you go wrong ... there may be some major bumps ... but you'll definitely Be Home (please note that I did *not* say "be in your home". )
And so ... I feel it's helpful to remember, the from the perspective of full enlightenment, it's SO clear that ALL it has to do with is realizing Who We Are ... and not how we "got" anywhere, or what our vehicle happened to be ... they even have a name for this - "absent-minded mountain climber" (you ask the teacher or guru how they got to the mountaintop, and they say, "I dunno --- just Realize Your True Nature". You then supress the urge to beat them about the head and shoulders with their own arms .... and try to re-phrase the question .... )
And yes ... as far as "waking back down" - I agree -- but would clarify - BIG "waking back down" would be what the Buddhists call Embodiment ... which is actually the very final stage of Enlightenment (integrating the FULL and final Realization into everyday human life - and carrying the highest Samadhi into every moment).
It sounds like what you're referring to is the multiple "waking back down"s, which occur for most of us, after an initial awakening, or series of then ... but before "full Enlightenment" -- which I'm using in the most common sense that I know, which is basically: Awakening is temporary, Enlightenment is permanent.
It's very common to have anywhere between a few years and a few decades between awakening and enlightenment ... and for me, having AYP in comparison to other yoga systems is like being on a private Lear Jet, in comparison to flying steerage (er, I mean "coach") on an old 727 with dirty seats, coughing people and screaming kids - and stale peanuts - and the one drink that really sounded good, they just ran out of - "ditto" the meal you were going to order ....
AYP compared to other non-yogic practices systems paths, etc. (i.e. imagine trying to get through all this without mantric meditation, without spinal breathing, without Tantra, without Samyama, without knowing about Kechari, Sambhavi, or Mulabandha .... NoooOOOOooOOOOooo thank you!! ) .... is like riding in a private Lear Jet, coast to coast, compared to .... say .... driving a '99 Toyota Camry across crowded Interstates with too much construction and slow RVs and inclement weather and motels that are aggressive about checkout times, and who have free but patchy WiFi service, and are overpriced ... and you get lost .... on the Insterstate mind you .... two freakin' days in a ROW, in Arkansas and Mississippi, no less ...... and you get a weird coolant smell inside the car, but can't find anything wrong ... and you're just about sure you'll blow a head gasket (you, not the car ....) if you see one more triple-digit mileage sign to anywhere ......
..... Aum, Aum, Aum .... Shanti, Shanti, ShantiH ....
.... it's okay, it's just an example, Kirtanman .... it's all over ... you've been in your new state for almost a week .... here, have a sip of Swayt Tay (regional drink, somewhat akin to the Iced Tea served in Western states .....).
.... only "Swayt" (like Sweet, but infinitely more so ....)
Moral of the Story:
Yay, AYP.
Yay, Adya.
Yay, Not-Moving.
And, actually .... the analogy carries ... as much as a Lear Jet would have made for a more pleasant trip experience ... now that I'm here, HOW I got here doesn't much matter .... I'm here.
So it goes with practices>Enlightenment.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Mar 07 2007 10:28:44 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 12:27:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ajna
Detailed info on Adya's life in his own words (Q&A format). Not sure if it is authentic. Kirtanman should be able to tell that
http://www.wheniawoke.com/Sages/Adyashanti.html
Cheers
Hi Ajna,
Yup - I can vouch for the info - it's for real.
I slogged through the PDF document (50 pages or so) when I first learned of Adya (2003) - it's a weird read, because it's a literal tape transcript .... but it's for real (I may even read it again .... part of it ... anyway).
The poem linked on the main page is one of Adya's - and is published in "My Secret is Silence" (interesting title, yes? From a guy whose name translates as "primordial peace" ... maybe he's trying to tell us something ....... )
The pic is Adya from at least ten years ago ... "Adya as a puppy".
(He's my age ... 45 ... though he's a few months younger ... that was part of what locked me onto him, initially .... "Dude's younger than me ... and clearly enlightened ... I think I should listen ... and I think I should get on with it .... NOW"
(I did ... and it's been beyond amazing ... it all hits a snowball-type point, at a certain point --- different for each of us, I imagine .... but I now experience things daily, that I couldn't even conceive of, a year ago .... and FAR more important than any of the "cool stuff" is the unspeakable peace and cessation of desire .... it's like ... I didn't know they meant THIS much .... I didn't know they COULD mean this much .......!)
At first, I thought you said something like, "I'm not sure if Adya is authentic ... but Kirtanman should know ...."
I'm not sure either .... but I'll tell you this .... if some "rogue Deva" (you know the type ... shiny, .44 magnum, jittery ) descended from the heavens (or wherever rogues Devas hang out ... ) and said, "Is Adyashanti enlightened and authentic - yes or no - wrong answer - 'Boom' goes your head!"
I'd say "Yes", without thinking, blinking, pausing ... or stuttering.
And please note ... that's not any kind of a "blind faith" thing .... it's a tangibility / power / depth - of experience thing.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Mar 07 2007 10:30:53 PM |
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American Guru Tradition, Non-Guru - Adyashanti
