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 Letting go of the mantra
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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - May 17 2011 :  4:01:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
The question below was split off from this topic:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=9315

Please be sure you read the whole topic, since my instructions in this first post is incorrect DM procedure.

Originally posted by Bill R.


Katrine offered some advice on simply letting go of the mantra in Deep Meditation that was extremely helpful to me. The blend of yoga, breathing and meditation was perfect.


Hi Katrine,

Can you please explain how this needs to be done? It will help others on the forum I guess. I definitely have some trouble with the "letting go" as to how it needs to be done.

- Near


Hi Near
In order to stay true to the deep meditation procedure which basically reads: "Gently come back to/repeat the mantra when you notice you are off it", it is important that we allow for the mantra to sink inwards ("fall away") after we say it. In other words, we have to allow for the possibility that we will be off the mantra. Noone does the sinking, we just allow for it to happen, much like water trickles out of a cup when it is tilted. So we let.. I am... go/fall inwards after we say it. The gap that is there before the next thought, image, emotion, sensation etc is the silence. Once we notice anything (including the silence as a subtle object) we gently come back to the mantra. Anything we notice (more often than not a thought will follow directly after the noticing) - is part of what is released during meditation, and so every single part of the meditation procedure is beneficial:

Saying the mantra creates the vibration that then sets the nervous system vibrating, letting the mantra fall inwards effortlessly transports us into the gap (noticed or not), and in the gap whatever is loosened of obstructions comes back up as thoughts, images, emotions, sensations etc. Once we notice these objects we are no longer "on the mantra" (saying it or in the gap after saying it) - so that is when we gently repeat... I am...

The gap can be very short or long, regardless of that the procedure is the same, we simply repeat the mantra once any object is noticed.

Letting go of the mantra like this also trains the mind in spontaneously letting go of objects between meditation sessions. It happens of itself and is one way of becoming naturally more quiet in daily living.

So - repeating the mantra back to back for example won't allow for this happening. Simply say it....trust it to fall inwards (simply be silent in the aftermath of the saying of it) - and this way we steadily dip our toes in the silence.


Edited by - Katrine on May 26 2011 2:45:52 PM

kevincann

USA
335 Posts

Posted - May 17 2011 :  4:12:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
@Katrine,

Magnificent

-Kevin
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nearoanoke

USA
525 Posts

Posted - May 17 2011 :  6:26:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the explanation Katrine.

I think the basic point is to avoid back2back repetition and instead after each “I AM” make a “conscious decision” to repeat the mantra (on seeing a thought) rather than unconscious/automated repetition.

I guess we don’t even need to wait for the appearance of a thought/image/feeling on a clear sense(Right?). The moment we realize we are “not lost” after the repetition of the mantra, we are out of silence and can pick up the next repetition. The difference from earlier approach is that it will not be an automated repetition but a “pause” and a new conscious check step added.

Please correct me if wrong
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  03:59:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Brilliant, Katrine! Thank you so much for that description! Very useful - I'll present it to my group!
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Medea

Netherlands
115 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  04:44:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for this - easy to understand - explanation Katrine!
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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  04:48:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Near

quote:
Thanks for the explanation Katrine.

I think the basic point is to avoid back2back repetition and instead after each “I AM” make a “conscious decision” to repeat the mantra (on seeing a thought) rather than unconscious/automated repetition.

I guess we don’t even need to wait for the appearance of a thought/image/feeling on a clear sense(Right?). The moment we realize we are “not lost” after the repetition of the mantra, we are out of silence and can pick up the next repetition. The difference from earlier approach is that it will not be an automated repetition but a “pause” and a new conscious check step added.

Please correct me if wrong


Not an automated repitition - that's right.
To know this is enough...you don't have to add a "new conscious check" to the procedure, it will come of itself once the objective of "gently coming back to the mantra once you notice you are off it" is what is being adhered to.

And yes - if you notice you are "not lost" - then this is a subtle noticing - and you gently come back to the mantra.
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kaserdar

91 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  06:42:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Katrine,

I started experiencing something new in my meditation and want to ask if this is the silence. When it happened for the first time I was so afraid and wanted to come out of it immediately. It happens always with night meditations because probably i'm able to go deeper due to less body resistance.

So I repeat the mantra, it takes me deep, I'm lost in deep image like thoughts and not aware that I lost the mantra. Then suddenly a shock hits me and i'm just aware but there is nothing to be aware of. I stay there for few seconds then I'm able to go back to mantra.

Is this silence or just simple sudden waking up from that deep thinking state?

Thanks
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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  12:13:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kaserdar

quote:
Hello Katrine,

I started experiencing something new in my meditation and want to ask if this is the silence. When it happened for the first time I was so afraid and wanted to come out of it immediately. It happens always with night meditations because probably i'm able to go deeper due to less body resistance.

So I repeat the mantra, it takes me deep, I'm lost in deep image like thoughts and not aware that I lost the mantra. Then suddenly a shock hits me and i'm just aware but there is nothing to be aware of. I stay there for few seconds then I'm able to go back to mantra.

Is this silence or just simple sudden waking up from that deep thinking state?

Thanks



It is both :)

The perception of the thoughtless gap deepens and ripens over time, as the nervous system is opening up. When there may be no gross objects to be aware of, we become aware of the spaciousness maybe, or our very core in expression - the presence. But the thing is - we are still noticing something. You notice you are not aware of something in particular, so that too (presence) is a subtle object and so you gently go back to the mantra.

The thing is....consciousness is always aware of something.......it always arises together with something....whether that something is a "something" or a "nothing" it is still noticeable. Even the loving waves from the silence are objects.....in meditation this means repeating the mantra - not drowning in love.

A silent mind is blissful (because we are aware of our presence), but this too can deepen into (sink into) something that can never be seen, only lived once the insight is permanent (meaning one acts on what one has understood).

The intensity of this that cannot be seen..... is such that it takes training....ripening.....of consciousness (and cleaning of the nervous system that is the channel for it)....to be able to bear it and not "black out". One day, the light of consciousness/nervous system can take the intensity of the silence - and that is when the flow from silence in expression happens full-on and undisturbed. By then noone thinks about "knowing the silence".....or speaks about "being the silence". The need to be/ know has dropped an what is left is whatever comes before one that needs to be done.

So never mind the fear and all the other thoughts you may have about it Kaserdar. Don't mind it experiencially. But if the fear happens a lot between meditations because of your practice - it is time to self pace and reduce the time you sit.

We meditate in order to bear the silence (not conquer it or be conquered by it) so that our expression can flow undisturbed and be essentially naturally true. It is an organic unfolding that cannot be forced. Not by our imagination - not by anything. Not even by meditation. But funnily enough - meditating somehow allows for this understanding - and the implications of it - to kick in a little faster.

All the best.







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kevincann

USA
335 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  12:52:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine

Hi Kaserdar

quote:
Hello Katrine,

I started experiencing something new in my meditation and want to ask if this is the silence. When it happened for the first time I was so afraid and wanted to come out of it immediately. It happens always with night meditations because probably i'm able to go deeper due to less body resistance.

So I repeat the mantra, it takes me deep, I'm lost in deep image like thoughts and not aware that I lost the mantra. Then suddenly a shock hits me and i'm just aware but there is nothing to be aware of. I stay there for few seconds then I'm able to go back to mantra.

Is this silence or just simple sudden waking up from that deep thinking state?

Thanks



It is both :)

The perception of the thoughtless gap deepens and ripens over time, as the nervous system is opening up. When there may be no gross objects to be aware of, we become aware of the spaciousness maybe, or our very core in expression - the presence. But the thing is - we are still noticing something. You notice you are not aware of something in particular, so that too (presence) is a subtle object and so you gently go back to the mantra.

The thing is....consciousness is always aware of something.......it always arises together with something....whether that something is a "something" or a "nothing" it is still noticeable. Even the loving waves from the silence are objects.....in meditation this means repeating the mantra - not drowning in love.

A silent mind is blissful (because we are aware of our presence), but this too can deepen into (sink into) something that can never be seen, only lived once the insight is permanent (meaning one acts on what one has understood).

The intensity of this that cannot be seen..... is such that it takes training....ripening.....of consciousness (and cleaning of the nervous system that is the channel for it)....to be able to bear it and not "black out". One day, the light of consciousness/nervous system can take the intensity of the silence - and that is when the flow from silence in expression happens full-on and undisturbed. By then noone thinks about "knowing the silence".....or speaks about "being the silence". The need to be/ know has dropped an what is left is whatever comes before one that needs to be done.

So never mind the fear and all the other thoughts you may have about it Kaserdar. Don't mind it experiencially. But if the fear happens a lot between meditations because of your practice - it is time to self pace and reduce the time you sit.

We meditate in order to bear the silence (not conquer it or be conquered by it) so that our expression can flow undisturbed and be essentially naturally true. It is an organic unfolding that cannot be forced. Not by our imagination - not by anything. Not even by meditation. But funnily enough - meditating somehow allows for this understanding - and the implications of it - to kick in a little faster.

All the best.






@Katrine,

You have seen the color red.

Magnificent.

Yes, we do not go around saying "I have an arm. I have an arm" An arm is attached and it does what it does.

I want to thnk you Katrine.. that one bolded line you posted yesterday, was worth all the price of being born. It was a pin popping a very full baloon.

Love,

Kevin
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yogani

USA
5182 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  1:02:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine


So - repeating the mantra back to back for example won't allow for this happening. Simply say it....trust it to fall inwards (simply be silent in the aftermath of the saying of it) - and this way we steadily dip our toes in the silence.


Hi Katrine and All:

It may be that the above provides results for some, or even for many under particular conducive circumstances (like on a retreat). But it should be mentioned that it is a modification of the procedure of AYP deep meditation. It is more akin to the procedure of samyama. It's effectiveness as meditation will be in question for beginners who are mainly aware of thinking and not resting in abiding inner silence (witness).

The baseline procedure of deep meditation is to easily pick up and mentally repeat the mantra whenever we become aware that we are not, which will work for everyone, regardless of the degree of resident inner silence available. This allows for systematic refinement of the mantra to stillness no matter what the practitioner's condition of abiding inner silence may be.

Releasing the mantra into the "gap" (of stillness) is not part of the procedure of deep meditation. It is relevant when using sutras in samyama, which is a more advanced practice, and distinctly different from deep meditation. Deep meditation cultivates inner silence. Samyama develops our ability to operate in inner silence, gradually giving rise to "stillness in action" in all of our daily activity.

There are an unlimited number of mental strategies that can be over-laid on the simple procedure of deep meditation. We'd all like to feel we are "managing" the process, so overlays that seem to do that are often greeted with enthusiasm. But the truth is that they are modifications to baseline practice, and may or may not add consistent results for a wide range of practitioners over time (see Lesson 384). Such variations may in fact encourage us to add additional mental strategies to "manage" the process of deep meditation when we judge it to not be going our way. Then, before we know it, we will not be meditating at all.

Sorry to be a party pooper on this. The procedure of deep meditation is very simple and very specific. It has been the same here for nearly 40 years in my practice, with increasingly refined results evolving gradually over time because the procedure has stayed the same. The mantra will refine with simple repetition when the procedure is used as instructed, no matter whether we are a beginner or very advanced. For those seeking additional clarification on the procedure of deep meditation, Lesson 366 is suggested.

Which is not to say we can't go our own way, according to our experience and the choices we are compelled to make about our practice. But that will not be the same as baseline practice, not necessarily applicable to everyone (especially beginners), and it is important that we recognize that.

All the best!

The guru is in you.

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kevincann

USA
335 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  1:37:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
@Yogani,

Your wisdom, from many years of faithful practice is unparalleled, and keeps the entire AYP practice on-track for the largest numbber of people possible. Thank you for the clarification. The more straight AYP I learn, with few or no modifications, the more blessed life becomes. Thank you kindly dear friend.

Love,

Kevin Cann
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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  5:33:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani

quote:
Releasing the mantra into the "gap" (of stillness) is not part of the procedure of deep meditation.


I am sorry if that is how my post reads. It is certainly not meant that way. Saying the mantra and then allow it to fall away....not repeating it back to back as a constant saying of it. Gently coming back to it when we notice we are off it. And certainly not dwelling on any mental additional procedure.

So if there is any misunderstanding out there - then hopefully it is now removed.

Thanks Yogani.

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nearoanoke

USA
525 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  6:46:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine

Saying the mantra and then allow it to fall away....not repeating it back to back as a constant saying of it.



I think Yogani's concern is in general with any mental strategies even the ones like "Allowing it to fall away" and "NOT repeating back2back". I guess the concern is about making an effort there.

On another note, I think the suggestion "allow mantra to become subtler" too falls into this category. I end up watching/checking during meditation if the mantra is subtle or not
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yogani

USA
5182 Posts

Posted - May 18 2011 :  6:46:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine

Saying the mantra and then allow it to fall away....not repeating it back to back as a constant saying of it. Gently coming back to it when we notice we are off it. And certainly not dwelling on any mental additional procedure.


Hi Katrine:

But we do not cease repetition of the mantra as it falls away -- no deliberate letting go in-between repetitions of the mantra. It is the repetition itself that becomes more and more refined, until it dissolves into a single stream of subtle vibration, and stillness. Then when we come out of that in thoughts or sensations, and recognize that we have, we easily begin the repetition again at whatever level of clarity or faint fuzziness we are at in the mind. This could happen only a few times in a sitting, or a hundred times, depending on the purification and opening that is occurring (it will vary from sitting to sitting -- and no meditation is better than another in this). This procedure systematically brings the entire mental process to rest in stillness (even if we are filled with thoughts during our meditation), and this is what cultivates abiding inner silence over time.

A single repetition of the mantra released until we realize it is time to repeat it again is samyama (nearly), not AYP deep meditation. It requires prerequisite inner silence to have an effect, which is the same prerequisite for beginning samyama practice. It is very difficult to reliably cultivate abiding inner silence by releasing thoughts one at a time into stillness. I know there are meditation systems that are based on passive release approaches like this, but they are not nearly as reliable as the proactive procedure of ongoing mental repetition of mantra, easily picked up again and again at ever more refined levels in the mind.

It is a fine point, but a very important one.

The DM procedure is used only during our twice-daily sittings, not as a walking-around-all-day practice, which leads to a watering down of results. In the lessons, the use of mantra all day long has been called a "mantra habit," which is not a very effective practice. Not much bang for the buck, as they say. When we are in activity, we should be fully engaged in activity, integrating the inner silence gained in our meditation sitting. And when we are sitting to meditate, we should meditate according to the procedure and our allotted time. Trying to do both at the same time is not a progressive practice. It is more likely to lead to dullness, or worse. I mention this because many ask about it, thinking it is a way to get ahead on the path. It isn't really. Much better to go on retreats several times each year, which can speed things up a lot.

Many thanks for all you are doing to help so many in that!

The guru is in you.

PS: The principle of "the mantra repetition itself becoming more and more refined" is expanded upon with the mantra enhancements, which increase the number of syllables in the mantra and the repetition. This increases the breadth the mantra repetition has in the mind and subtle neurobiology, yielding more purification at ever deeper levels, and more abiding inner silence.

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Katrine

Norway
1813 Posts

Posted - May 19 2011 :  03:31:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Katrine's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

Hi Yogani

Ok I see. Yes....it is a fine point isn't it. So.....just to be absolutely clear I have understood this correctly:

My response was given to somebody who said the mantra back to back...like doing japa. That is not right meditation procedure either. You can rest assured......it was not given as general instruction on meditation. As I wrote above:


quote:
In other words, we have to allow for the possibility that we will be off the mantra.



So far we agree right? Even if you say:


quote:
But we do not cease repetition of the mantra as it falls away



Then....explaining how we do not repeat the mantra back to back by saying "allowing the mantra to fall inwards" - this is where I left the instruction. What I could have said was: No deliberate repeating of the mantra back to back....or something like that?

And as for


quote:
The DM procedure is used only during our twice-daily sittings, not as a walking-around-all-day practice, which leads to a watering down of results.



This was never instructed. Noone was told to use the DM procedure between meditation sessions. But practicing meditation with a mantra over the years led to spontaneous (with any object) samyama for me. Without practising Samyama. So - I'll drop talking about this bonus like it is somehow linked with the DM procedure - then that should be enough to not create any misunderstandings.

Ok...glad we got this sorted, and I am sorry for all the extra work this created for you. I'll send an email to our group (since this is the first time these choice of words were used) - just to make sure noone has misunderstood.

And thanks to Near who asked for a clarification in the first place
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yogani

USA
5182 Posts

Posted - May 19 2011 :  08:34:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Katrine:

Yes, the mantra is repeated "back to back" when sitting, and the whole process is lost and easily picked up again as often as necessary. There is no forcing in it, once we get past the clunky (learning) stage. When we say "easily pick up the mantra," we mean easily pick up back to back repetition.

For our purposes, "japa" means continuous use of mantra during daily activity, which is not an AYP practice.

Releasing intentions, perceptions and experiences in stillness during daily activity is a natural ability we develop over time as abiding inner silence (witness) becomes a normal part of our life. It is not something we can do naturally before then, and it is cultivated to a large extent through structured samyama sitting practice.

Just as the habit of abiding inner silence is cultivated in deep meditation, the habit of releasing daily life in stillness ("stillness in action") is cultivated in samyama practice.

An extension of this is the rise of "relational" self inquiry. "Relational" means able to release inquiry naturally in stillness, which is dependent on the process of rising witness and the ability to naturally engage in life from within stillness. Before then, deliberate attempts to release in stillness can be a strain, and we call that "non-relational" (not in stillness).

Once the natural process of releasing all aspects of life in stillness is occurring, something else happens, which we call an "outpouring of divine love," which is a constant unifying energy flowing through us, illuminating our life, and everyone we are in touch with. You know something about that.

As discussed above, there are particular steps involved in getting all of this going, and it is best to keep the horse in front of the cart, with effective deep meditation being the horse. So that is why we want to be sure that our meditation practice is on track. Everything else in yoga depends on it.

Happy to offer these clarifications.

The guru is in you.

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Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - May 19 2011 :  10:04:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I have always just repeated the mantra throughout a given sitting session as Yogani describes.

As time went on over the years, the mantra would become fuzzier and more faint by itself often, so I just continued to repeat it however it sounded as soon as I noticed I wasn't repeating it. Often I would lose it and find myself thinking about something or noticing something other than the mantra. Whenever this happened, I would simply go back to the mantra and simply repeat again and again. The results have been great.

After some time easily following this simple procedure, I would find myself absorbed in the mantra with lots of blissful energy the result.


Edited by - Anthem on May 19 2011 10:10:43 AM
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Tootsies

Canada
1 Posts

Posted - May 19 2011 :  1:40:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello, well here goes my first post! I am so grateful for all of u from this weekends retreat! Thx u for taking the time to get to know u so u could share. I have come away from this experience just that much wiser to the potential within. I have been faithful in my twice daily practice as I want this to be a `habit` formed in my daily life. I already have been `feeling` the difference. How did Carson put it, trust the emergance..love it! Ive been workin on that one for a few years nowwell I am at work but just wanted to make sure before I go away for the weekend(another meeting of like minded peeps) I joined & responded to our experience. Thank you all for sharing time with me. Love Mel
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Medea

Netherlands
115 Posts

Posted - May 19 2011 :  4:47:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the clarification Yogani. It's interesting how hard it is for our clever minds to keep procedures simple :)
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Yaming

Switzerland
112 Posts

Posted - May 19 2011 :  9:52:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Katrine:
"No deliberate repeating of the mantra back to back....or something like that?"
Yogani:
"Yes, the mantra is repeated "back to back" when sitting, and the whole process is lost and easily picked up again as often as necessary."

So there (quotes above) is the disagreement/misunderstanding. I personally have no inner silence in me, at least I don't feel it. The suggestion of Katrine to let it sink inwards was still very helpful. I personally just repeat the mantra and kind of listen to the echo/vibration in myself. It's like when someone hits a charm and you hear the sound of it afterwards fading away. And as soon as I realize that my mind is off, I go back and hit the mantra again. It feels like I can go deeper then when I just repeat the mantra over and over again, which keeps me much more on the surface. I mentally relax more. So is this approach off the procedure?
Yaming
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yogani

USA
5182 Posts

Posted - May 20 2011 :  12:36:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yaming

I personally just repeat the mantra and kind of listen to the echo/vibration in myself. It's like when someone hits a charm and you hear the sound of it afterwards fading away. And as soon as I realize that my mind is off, I go back and hit the mantra again. It feels like I can go deeper then when I just repeat the mantra over and over again, which keeps me much more on the surface. I mentally relax more. So is this approach off the procedure?
Yaming


Hi Yaming:

Yes it is off the procedure. Sorry, I cannot predict the long term result of that sort of practice. From the AYP perspective, it is an experimental modification, as discussed in Lesson 384, unless you have verification from a reliable source on the long term effectiveness of the practice.

I can tell you that the sensation of whether we are "deep" or not during a sitting has no bearing on the effectiveness of AYP deep meditation. The experience will vary depending on the inner purification that is occurring. We can only know if our meditation is effective in how we feel in daily activity between our meditation sessions. Meditations full of thoughts produce results just as well as subjectively deep meditations. It is consistent application of the procedure that produces the results, not the subjective experience during meditation.

Modifying the procedure of meditation to achieve a particular experience during meditation is likely to water down the results, and can lead to more tinkering and more watering down. That is what happens when we try to calibrate our practice to achieve a particular experience during meditation. The inner dynamic of purification will be constantly changing. If we are unable to allow that, then our practice will likely be changing in search of that "deep" experience, and our experience in daily activity may not be improving as much as we would like.

It is your call, of course. Wishing you all the best in your practice, whatever it may be. Enjoy!

The guru is in you.

PS: For the finer points of AYP deep meditation procedure, see Lesson 366.

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Yaming

Switzerland
112 Posts

Posted - May 20 2011 :  12:45:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks Yogani. Well, back to the normal procedure then.
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nearoanoke

USA
525 Posts

Posted - May 20 2011 :  12:58:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Yaming

thanks Yogani. Well, back to the normal procedure then.



I can relate to your sleepy symbol () very well

I too thought I'll become enlightened in a week when I heard this new procedure

The mind keeps looking for shortcuts. Again, whether your meditation is surfacey or deep, it doesnt matter. So dont think much about it. Dont judge your meditation session on that
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Yaming

Switzerland
112 Posts

Posted - May 20 2011 :  02:11:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
oh that is the sleepy face. lol I always looked at it as a happy face. I know I should judge it from my daily experience... but nothing is happening. I know I'm not very long on AYP but I caaaaan't wait!! lol
Well well at least my impatience brings me 2 daily to my meditation seat.
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - May 20 2011 :  03:45:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hm. This is quite reassuring and at least for me it comes as a good reminder. After 5 years of practice I still have a very busy mind during most meditation sessions, but my life is continuously more joyful and it's easier to "stay home" during stressful events and emotional outbursts. Easier to stay as the "background" instead of being drawn into the play of appearances. I have somehow learned to ignore the busy mind during sessions and I have lost the longing for "deep" sessions. A greater acceptance of what is. When I do have a deeper session, it works mostly like Katrine explains - a slower tempo of repeating the mantra and it naturally just fades away inwards... So both is ok as it happens here.

Thanks, Yogani and Katrine, for creating an opportunity for reflection on procedures.

Edited by - emc on May 20 2011 04:00:20 AM
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jeff

USA
971 Posts

Posted - May 20 2011 :  08:27:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting discussion. This is the simple way that I think about it that may help with understanding the difference. In DM, we are digging an increasingly deeper cave of silence. With the "mindless" repeating of the mantra we are learning to "listen". As our listening grows, the mind quiets and we find the gap. Making (or digging) the cave deeper. When you let the mantra drift and consciously restart it, you are no longer "listening" and bring the energy of focused intent to the cave. It becomes kind of like,as you dig the cave, you are also filling it back up with energy as you go.
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