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 Discussions on AYP Deep Meditation and Samyama
 My state right now - advice needed
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Cato

Germany
73 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2020 :  4:20:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hi everybody,

I have reached a point in my practice where I do not really know where to go so I would like to give you some detailed information of my state right now. I hope this gives you enough information to be able to give some sound advice perhaps.

I always used to be seeker in life and went through different stages (interests in buddhism, ancient philosophy, ethics etc.). This urge for searching has somewhat faded with practicing AYP. AYP feels like having arrived somewhere and it has sort of become a way of life for me so I would very much like to know what you think about my current stage. (Btw. thanks Yogani for giving the world this full scope approach for living).

I'm sorry this might become kind of a long post so I'll try to abbreviate it by using bullet points. Thanks for taking the time to read. There is also some weird stuff involved:


  • This was my start: I did some (purlely physical) yoga for some years and am doing asthanga yoga on a daily basis for several years now. In July 2018, I was on vacation and lay in bed and was for some reason thinking about me and the universe being the same. I had some very powerful feelings of bliss and felt like crying several times for short periods but did not really. It felt like being in presence of the Divine. I voluntarily stopped this experience because my wife came to bed then. The next day, I tried to reproduce that state and discovered that some body movements were going on. I could not fully reproduce that former state of bliss. A day later, I did an automatic yoga flow I would never have thought possible. I stopped after 90 minutes. I did it again some time later (it started immediately) and the automatic flow was even better with (for me) very advanced asanas. I stopped again after 70 minutes. I then tried to find out what this might have been.

  • I soon found AYP and started a regular practice. I built it up to

    30 minutes of asanas (once daily)
    and twice daily:
    10 min SBP
    7 cycles of YMK
    20 minutes DM
    10 minutes samyama
    5 minutes rest
    (with bandhas and mudras)

  • Twice a week, i did automatic kriyas instead of asanas. I quit that because it tended to increase overload (at least I think that). I did those kriyas for some months and it definitely improved my physical yoga practice. At the beginning, it was a lot of just directing the fingertips automatically along the nadis (from head to toes and back again). In the end, the kriyas sometimes included sucking myself till organsm. I also had the tip of my penis resting on the third eye.

  • Those kriyas also could include some loud babble that almost sounded like some strange language.

  • I guess I have never been extroverted but I feel even more uncomfortable socializing recently. This gives me a very hard time, I would be happy if socializing would be lighthearted again.

  • I try to do strict brahmacharya since July 2018 and did not masturbate nor did I have sex since then. Nevertheless, I had (yoga-related) semen loss.

  • I also experimented with nauli kriya and kechari stage 2 (without frenum snipping). Both are doable, but I felt they increase overload so I quit.

  • I have a sense of energy blocking in the lumbar spine. I have never felt those complete electricity or sensations along the whole spine.

  • Weird things tend to happen at night. I wake up and do automatic asanas. Or I wake up and have orgasms not touching myself. This process often wears on for an hour or two. Partly with extreme whole body shaking involved. I had orgasms with and without semen loss. For some time now I use the blocking technique (also automatically).

  • Those night experiences often happen after my once-a-week ashtanga mysore class (90 minutes asanas with strenuous backbends) and on full moon. I definitely feel the full moon.

  • Those experiences at night also end without orgasm at all, just having had those pre-orgasmic feelings. Sometimes, I have an urge to do amaroli then. So I do amaroli (full glass).

  • I had this one night when I got up and felt really really down and anxious. Only a small step to a panic attack, it was really frightening.

  • I really like doing those ashtanga asanas daily. Both for keeping me physically fit and for complementing my AYP routine. I do not now if those add up to my overload or not. AYP does not seem to be distict here.

  • As I have been irritated and emotionally unstable quite often, I started adjusting my AYP routine by cutting out YMK, then samyama, then I did a complete stop.

  • I have those strong sensations in the solar plexus area that give me a sense of crying and sadness (I described in another post). I think those sensations might have lessened a bit after stopping with AYP now.

  • Those sensation near the manipura chakra can be triggered by just seeing a beautiful woman. Strange thing.

  • I try to increase grounding activities (walking, being barefoot, cold shower).

  • I guess I am a pitta-type guy and I try to adjust my diet appropriately, but it is hard. Besides, it is just a guess. I'm not sure. Could be another dosha.

  • I do sharkarmas seldomly, also cleansing of mouth and colon.

  • I did not do AYP practices for a week now and plan to self-pace for another week. I think this might have helped even though I do not know for how long I should stop doing practices. When I read the AYP lessons, books and booklets, I do not find those experiences and effects of mine and it gives me a hard time to find the cause and an answer.



I really would appreciate your advice. Where to go from here?

Dogboy

USA
1730 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2020 :  9:35:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
My take:

YMK is very energetic, as is ashtanga flow, Bramacharya, as well as employing mudras and bandas. Perhaps you should decrease or eliminate across the board, especially coming off of an overload that made you stop practice completely. You can also reduce SBP to five minutes whenever you start up again..Treat yourself to one YMK a session. Also, double your rest to ten minutes, and perhaps try one of my tricks: rest in child’s pose with Ajna on the floor/ground. It is peaceful grounding.

I did ashtunga for many years before ecstatic conductivity, but doubt I could take it up today because of the strong flow. My current (pre pandemic) weekly class is Yin, long sustained holding of a pose with restorative elements and props. If you must continue ashtunga, have an intention to radiate your conductivity outwardly, and attempt grounding techniques immediately after class. My guru has taught me, during asana, to treat my body like a garden hose rather than a balloon, in other words, imagining energy flowing through and outwardly, rather than circulating it inwardly.

So far as the sex stuff, ecstatic conductivity has changed masturbation for me, making the act all about arousal (combining asana, mirrors, dance music, and humor without touching “down there”) and not about ejaculation. A couple weeks of this, however can lead to overload, so I don’t fret about strict bramacharya; perhaps you shouldn’t either. Once you’ve achieved ecstatic conductivity, there is less need for bramacharya as your system is performing natural vajroli. If you’ve aroused yourself many times over the course of weeks, release and reset bramacharya.

Feeling isolated, grouchy, unusually unsociable are all signs you are doing too much yoga. My suggestion when you do restart AYP would be 5 minutes SBP, one YMK, fifteen minutes DM, samyama, then ten minutes of rest. If it is smooth after a week or two, then choose one practice to level up, and so on.

And whenever you get the urge for amaroli, do it. Your system is craving it then. This seems to be to only way I do amaroli.

Edited by - Dogboy on Apr 10 2020 9:39:14 PM
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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1569 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2020 :  08:14:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Cato

I agree with Dogboy, I would experiment with doing less.

Your bhakti is strong and you've gone through a stage (we all do) of taking as many practices as you could. There comes a point when their cumulative effect produces a lot of opening, very fast. Yogani calls it the flywheel effect.

You need to find a routine that moves you forward at a manageable speed.

Best wishes. Keep us posted
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1219 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2020 :  02:10:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Cato,

Your report above is all about the experiences brought by kundalini , the energetic aspect of awakening. What about Inner Silence /Stillness - how much of that do you feel ? The journey is ultimately about Awareness of Self (from personality self to unbounded Consciousness Self) .

Do not neglect this aspect to the thrill of ecstatic conductivity.


Sey
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Cato

Germany
73 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2020 :  3:22:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all of you for your thoughts.

@Dogboy, I have never thought of Asthtanga as being very energetic in terms of leading to an overload. Asanas seem to be seen as grounding in AYP. Where is the difference between grounding asanas and energetically stirring asanas as used in ashtanga? I very much love my ashtanga routine and would much miss it if I chose to abandon it. Especially as I have a sitting job and need those poses for my back etc. Regarding your guru's advice on imagining energy flowing through and outwardly, rather than circulating it inwardly, I have never thought about it either way. During Ashtanga, I mostly try to focus on bandhas, breath and pose. Never thought about imagining energy flowing during the routine. You think that might be a piece of the puzzle?

Regarding brahmacharya, I am still not quite sure if I understand the idea correctly. Sometimes, sex and semen loss is considered to be grounding. Sometimes, it is considered to be stirring. Is there a correct view?

quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy


Also, double your rest to ten minutes, and perhaps try one of my tricks: rest in child’s pose with Ajna on the floor/ground. It is peaceful grounding.




I definitely thank you for this grounding technique tip. I am still looking for efficient grounding and will definitely test this one.

quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy



Feeling isolated, grouchy, unusually unsociable are all signs you are doing too much yoga. My suggestion when you do restart AYP would be 5 minutes SBP, one YMK, fifteen minutes DM, samyama, then ten minutes of rest. If it is smooth after a week or two, then choose one practice to level up, and so on.




Thanks. I will take this one as my start when I feel ready to restart again. Not sure how long a decrease of overload may take. I guess there is no rule.

@Sey, I'm still not sure what to think about stillness in terms of my own experiences. I guess I might have some experiences with stillness during deep meditation and samyama. And whereas there might have been some first steps during practice, I think I have never had stillness related experiences during daily life. Mostly I feel fine during the practices (peacefully, calm, perhaps even stillness, sometimes aroused and pleasureable) and kind of irritated afterwards in daily life - to one extent or another. Would be nice if I could carry this practice-related state over to daily life.
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Dogboy

USA
1730 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2020 :  7:13:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Cato

The ashtunga I practiced, if I remember correctly, was a routine and flow, doing multiple sets of poses the same order each time, and moving along at a fairly quick pace. I remember sweating quite a bit! Asanas can be both grounding and energetic, and the qualities of an ashtunga practice are certainly energetic, and on top of your other energetic practices, the totality is causing your overload. As you wish to continue ashtunga, then you should (a) prepare to ground immediately after class and (b) cut back energetic practices elsewhere, within your AYP sitting routine and/or your sexual practices.

Semen loss definitely ‘deflates air’ from your spiritual tire, so the loosening of strictness of bramacharya should benefit you in the long term. As to when to resume, yes, that is your experiment to preform, we are individual in how and why yoga affects us. Whenever you do decide to attempt resumption, do a very short/lean routine for a couple of days and see how you feel after being dormant for a while. Good luck!

Edited by - Dogboy on Apr 12 2020 7:17:47 PM
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Cato

Germany
73 Posts

Posted - May 11 2020 :  10:35:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

just an update: After one month without practice (I did only 30 minutes ashtanga daily during that time), I resumed AYP some days ago with the suggested approach: 5 minutes SBP, one YMK, fifteen minutes DM, samyama (all with mudras abd bandhas), then ten minutes of rest. I guess I still feel agitated from time to time. Next step now is to reduce Bramacharya. I will try to release semen whenever I feel irritable and I guess that might be more often during getting rid of overload symptoms.

My last line of defense will be stop doing ashtanga and changing to some smoother yoga style. This is my last one since I would definitely miss doing ashtanga. It is what keeps me (especially back and shoulders) fit in my sitting nine-to-five job.

Btw. it is interesting to note how AYP gets more and more priority in life. I guess that I indeed would stop doing my long lasting and beloved ashtanga routine in favor of AYP. If need be.
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interpaul

USA
118 Posts

Posted - May 11 2020 :  7:20:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Cato, Thanks for sharing your experience. I am about a year into my practices and do similar practices, except for the Ashtanga. I have had a few episodes of energy overload and near panic states that have required me to scale back. These practices are powerful and overall have become a meaningful part of my life too. I hope you find the right balance.
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