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 Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
 Preventing bad incidents
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2016 :  04:27:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hi all,

Recently I have experienced a very bad event. My father fell of height and is in hospital now.

a few days before the incident I had a weird feeling and somehow know something is going to happen, but the night before it the feeling got much stronger and when I was going to bed I had a strong feeling on top of my head.I didn't know what to do to prevent what is going to happen, except releasing it into silence in samyama fashion.The feeling continued during the day till it happened.

I don't know if it is possible to prevent these kinds of incidents possibly with more inner silence and gaining super natural powers(anyhow)or not.

appreciate your thoughts and help on this.

Edited by - angeleeyes on Sep 19 2016 12:10:48 PM

Dogboy

USA
1655 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2016 :  4:17:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi angel eyes

Sorry to hear of your father's trouble. As we practice, open nadis, and purify, we may become open or sensitive to visions and foresights, but it is not something one can control or strive to achieve. In your case, the "foreboding" was not specific in any particular way, so I hope you don't attach to any responsibility for what occurred. Your instinct to release it 'samyama style' was probably to best you could do under the circumstances.

Practice can give us a buffer from suffering as you witness events unfolding, and to be there fully for your father in his journey toward healing, providing you an opportunity for loving service. Perhaps bad things happen so that we can access the fruits of yoga practice to lift up the fallen and strengthen love.
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2016 :  5:42:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Dogboy

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and kind words.

quote:
In your case, the "foreboding" was not specific in any particular way, so I hope you don't attach to any responsibility for what occurred.


suppose that somehow I knew exactly when and how this is going to happen(I think there are people who have such ability)is that possible to prevent seemingly predestined incident like this or not.If not what is the purpose to know something that you can not do anything to stop it.


Edited by - angeleeyes on Sep 20 2016 02:40:47 AM
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Dogboy

USA
1655 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2016 :  8:22:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I know if I had a vision like you describe, I would step in to prevent it, thinking it was a divine intervention. This does not guarentee successful avoidance. Free will is often and doing and a surrendering, setting intentions and surrendering outcomes.
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  08:46:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
unfortunately my father passed away and left us alone,I'm feeling regret and sad about it.I think I could help him if I had paid more attention to my feelings and did not go to that place.

I remember a minute or two before the incident there was a rooster there suddenly got wild and started to attack children but I remained blind to that also and happened what happened.

was that predestined and unchangeable?

Edited by - angeleeyes on Sep 23 2016 09:10:11 AM
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sunyata

USA
1411 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  09:21:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear angeleeyes,

Iím so sorry for your loss. May his soul RIP. I even wrote a response to this post earlier this week and didnít post it.

In my humble opinion seeing the future is considered a siddhi. One of the reasons I donít feel drawn to them. I really like AYPís method of Samyama releasing/dropping everything in silence.

How many times are we going to prevent bad incidents from happening? And if we are not able to prevent them- Are we going to feel responsible for all of them? And fall in an endless cycle of suffering/guilt that the mind creates.

The divine is behind and is everything. Everything is happening according to itís will. It controls all the universes and has itís plan. I know not easy to hear this at the time of losing a dear one. But, may be looking at the bigger picture will help ease the pain a little.

Feel the grief, pain, cry but please do not blame yourself. Iím sure your father would not want you doing that either. There was nothing you could do to prevent this.

Keeping you both in my samyama.

Much Love

Edit- changed from "last week" to "earlier
this week". I thought this was posted last week. It was posted on Monday. Sorry, had my days mixed up.



Edited by - sunyata on Sep 23 2016 1:45:43 PM
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  09:37:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you sunyata for your quick reply and kind words.

quote:
In my humble opinion seeing the future is considered a siddhi.


but what is the use of this siddhi when you can't change anything remaining hand tied.

Edited by - angeleeyes on Sep 23 2016 09:47:56 AM
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sunyata

USA
1411 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  09:47:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply


On the spiritual path, Siddhis show up. Again, it's up to an individual on how one relates to them. Everyone has free will on this too.

Spiritual practices for me is for Liberation. And for being the vehicle through which the divine functions in this world(it's creation). At the same time, I know there are various human potentials that all of us have yet to discover.

Just my two cents for what it's worth.



Edited by - sunyata on Sep 23 2016 09:50:14 AM
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  10:03:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
asking all advanced practitioners here:

some say that the time of death and how it happens is predestined(even before birth) is that true or not?
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Blanche

USA
583 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  10:26:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Angeleeeys,

My prayers are with you and your family at this time. Yes, when the seeds of the present life are used up, the body dies. We had many lives before this one, and most of us will have many lives after this. From an absolute perspective in which time and space do not exist, all the lives are happening simultaneoously. The reality is much more complex than we can conceive, and it might not be possible to understand it from a human condition. But what we can do is to follow the spiritual path to find out who we are and why we are here. As our identity changes, our relationship with life and death changes. I hope that your spiritual practice will bring you peace and comfort.Take care!
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sunyata

USA
1411 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  10:46:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Blanche

We had many lives before this one, and most of us will have many lives after this. From an absolute perspective in which time and space do not exist, all the lives are happening simultaneoously. The reality is much more complex than we can conceive, and it might not be possible to understand it from a human condition. But what we can do is to follow the spiritual path to find out who we are and why we are here. As our identity changes, our relationship with life and death changes.



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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  11:04:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you all for your kind words and wisdom

quote:
We had many lives before this one, and most of us will have many lives after this. From an absolute perspective in which time and space do not exist, all the lives are happening simultaneoously.


is that your own experience?
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yogani

USA
5161 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  11:21:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Angeleeyes:

I am very sorry for the loss of your father. My prayers are with him, you and your family.

It is enough to bear the weight of unfortunate events that come to us in life. To take responsibility for having been unable to prevent them is to choose misery over recovery. As others have said, you will grieve, but to add guilt is only going to harm you and the many happy memories you have of life with your father, and the ongoing inner connection you can have with him.

No one dies. We only transition, and every one of us will. Loss is an outer event, not an inner one. To know this deeply, it takes abiding inner silence, as we often talk about here. We certainly feel the outer loss, and this is what grief is, a process of going down emotionally and then coming back up into life again. As part of this process there is the opportunity for gratitude and opening to the joy of an eternal connection with our loved one.

Siddhis for siddhis sake and personal desire fulfillment are a source misery. Real siddhis are not for our personal use in this life. They are for the divine flow in stillness which we can allow to come through us as we advance in our spiritual unfoldment. True siddhis are a letting go. We do not decide when they will work for us, and it is not for us to regret when they have not fulfilled our personal desires. To pursue siddhis and premonitions is outside the realm of spiritual development. It is something else entirely.

We do what we can to avoid accidents and calamities, but the truth is beyond our doing. We are but actors on the stage of life. It is only in stillness within that we find peace and the fulfillment of our purpose in this life.

The suggestion is to keep meditating, allow your feelings as you go through this difficult time, and know that it is going to be alright.

Peace be with you.

The guru is in you.

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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2016 :  12:49:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you dear yogani for your kind and wise response.
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Blanche

USA
583 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2016 :  11:53:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by angeleeyes

quote:
We had many lives before this one, and most of us will have many lives after this. From an absolute perspective in which time and space do not exist, all the lives are happening simultaneoously.


is that your own experience?



It is an aspect of my experience. What do I know? Honestly I cannot say that I know anything. It is humbling. The ultimate reality is a great mystery.

I am sorry for your loss. My parents passed away when I was in high school. It was a difficult and confusing time. Before each of them passed away, I had a sense that it was going to happen. When it really happened, I was not totally surprised. Now I understand that what we are, the pure consciousness, is beyond time and space. The same way we know what happened in the past, the same way we know something about the future. But our life in time interferes somewhat with our knowledge of the future. Thus, we do not have a clear understanding of what will happen. Definitely we are not supposed to change the course of life. It is all a Divine play. The experience here brings deep reverence for the wisdom and the perfection of the Divine creation.

The body is born, and dies, but who you are is not born, and it cannot die. Our loved ones passed away because that was the best course for their spiritual journey. Our attachment to their physical presence could make things more difficult for them and for us. In the same time, nobody could take away all the love and experiences we shared with the loved ones. They are in us, and we are in them, and this gives us a glimpse of how One is in many, and many are in One.

We are all travelers on a spiritual journey.
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Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2016 :  4:31:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Peace. Resilience. Fortitude.
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lalow33

USA
964 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2016 :  5:19:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,
I had forewarning before a death, but I didn't understand it. I had a vision of me wearing a strange outfit and all my sisters in a white room crying, when awareness turned to look at what was going on; it ended. I also felt metal going through my head every night for a few weeks. It came true. I was a mess until my asana teacher was psychic enough to know I'd had a vision prior to what happened. He talked to me about Cassandra. It helped quite a bit.

Edited by - lalow33 on Sep 25 2016 5:20:23 PM
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Blanche

USA
583 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2016 :  07:42:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Duality is in the nature of the physical world. When we signed up to be born, we also signed up for death. What is born dies. Resistance, avoidance, denial are so many ways to create suffering. However, our real nature is strong and happy. A daily spiritual practice and a supportive lifestyle offer the chance to see beyond the veils of illusion. Then you can never stop smiling...
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Christi

United Kingdom
3610 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2016 :  08:22:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Blanche

Duality is in the nature of the physical world. When we signed up to be born, we also signed up for death. What is born dies. Resistance, avoidance, denial are so many ways to create suffering. However, our real nature is strong and happy. A daily spiritual practice and a supportive lifestyle offer the chance to see beyond the veils of illusion. Then you can never stop smiling...





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BlueRaincoat

United Kingdom
1516 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2016 :  10:26:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Praying for you and for your father angeleeyes.

quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Real siddhis are not for our personal use in this life. They are for the divine flow in stillness which we can allow to come through us as we advance in our spiritual unfoldment. True siddhis are a letting go. We do not decide when they will work for us, and it is not for us to regret when they have not fulfilled our personal desires.


Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Sep 26 2016 10:27:57 AM
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 26 2016 :  11:53:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you all dear friends, I am so grateful being here seeing your warm and wise words,you helped me and my family a lot and I appreciate that very much.

Edited by - angeleeyes on Sep 29 2016 01:41:25 AM
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lalow33

USA
964 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2016 :  11:23:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
No, you can't go back. You'll just torment yourself thinking about it.
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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2016 :  2:23:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi lalow33

That's right I can't go back,but I want to know what was the role of karma?
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sunyata

USA
1411 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2016 :  4:07:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi angeleeyes,

Here is Lesson 343 on Karma.

quote:


Lesson 343 - What is Karma?


The word Karma has become a cliché in our society, sometimes put in humorous terms relating to the foibles and mishaps that occur in everyday life:

"I tripped and fell down. It must be my karma."

"I did that foolish thing, and I'll do it again. It's not my fault. It's my karma."

On the serious side, the concept of karma may be affixed to tragedies as heart-rending as the loss of a loved one, or a natural disaster that takes hundreds or thousands of lives. How can one word explain such inexplicable events? It can't really. Yet, there is something in the word karma that rings deep in the psyche of all of us. It has to do with our sense of destiny, fate, or what seems beyond our knowing. When we can find no other reason, we may seek a hidden logic.

But, while karma may have something to do with destiny and fate, it is also beyond beliefs we may harbor that cross over into the realm of superstition. If karma is superstition, it is only because people have needed to see it in that light in attempts to explain the unexplainable.

On the other hand, karma is the working principle of cause and effect operating in life that can be of great practical utility on our spiritual path, if we view it in that context. When we do, karma can be elevated to the level of practice. When that occurs, we call it Karma Yoga, which means divine union through action.

Karma means action and its consequences.

"As you sow, so shall you reap."

Yet, so often, we use the term with resignation, only in relation to the consequences: "This thing that is happening is our karma," etc.

However, karma is both cause and effect, so it stands to reason that the effects can be altered in some way by influencing underlying causes. There is something we can do about the consequences aspect of our karma, and, for that matter, about the karma of the world. Therefore, nothing is necessarily predestined or a product of fate. We can act to bring about more positive consequences for ourselves, and for everyone. This is the promise of karma yoga.

How can we do that? The power lies in each of us, and in the choices we make.

We are all familiar with the basic mechanics of desire, action and the resulting consequences.

If we want to become a doctor, we go to school for a long time, and, in the end, we become a doctor. Desire, action, consequences.

What we may not have considered in the beginning is the multitude of ramifications associated with the path we have chosen. It is not possible to know everything beforehand. But we do the best we can in following a course that we feel is in line with our desire. If it is our unwavering passion to become a doctor, then, whatever obstacles we may encounter on our journey, we will find ways to overcome them. Such is the power of having a clear vision, a chosen ideal. If there is such a thing as destiny, our vision and persistence will define it. Destiny is in our deepest longing.

In this kind of scenario, the workings of karma seem pretty clear. We choose a course and work steadily toward our goal. But are the workings of karma really so clear?

It has been said that the consequences of karma are unfathomable. If we throw a stone in a pond, can we know the full effects it will have? Can we trace the effect of every ripple going out, and the effect of every ripple coming back from the opposite bank? Perhaps we can if we develop a mathematical model that is sufficiently sophisticated.

It has been said that the flapping of a butterfly's wings will influence the most distant star. Can we predict the results of that?

Astrologers spend their careers doing something like that, attempting to determine the influence of the gravitational forces of the planets and stars in our lives. Is it possible? The best astrologers might be right a little more than half the time, so there is something to it. But is this enough to say that we can know the consequences of karma in the cosmic sense?

Likewise, it is said that the influences in our lives that may defy logical explanation are the result of actions we have undertaken in past lives, the result of our numerous incarnations in bodily form ‚Äď our karmic tendencies sown in a distant past we no longer remember. Is this a good argument for reincarnation? It does offer a rationale for the inexplicable events we may experience in life, and the apparent gifts and handicaps that innocent children may arrive with at birth. But can we really know for sure? Should we be spending our precious time looking back into the murky realms of past lives to understand reasons for what is happening in our lives today? If we work at it long enough, we may find some clarity. But, for the most part, it will be unfathomable, like gazing at star charts, or pondering the effects of stones thrown in ponds, or the whisperings of butterfly wings traveling across the universe.

Our destiny may be hidden in the stars, but the rest will be up to us through the choices we make each day to forward our spiritual progress through practices. We can watch for the lingering effects of ancient events, taking the role of spectator, or we can act in ways that directly influence all outcomes in the here and now, taking the role of participant. In these lessons, we take an active role in moving through the karmic maze, transcending and transforming its manifestations to serve our chosen ideal through bhakti and our daily yoga practices.

In doing so, we will be cultivating abiding inner silence, ecstatic conductivity and stillness in action, leading to the natural ability to transform karmic consequences at their source.

The guru is in you.

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angeleeyes

104 Posts

Posted - Oct 14 2016 :  02:32:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
what happens after death(in yogic perspective)?.Some say that we have more than one body and after loosing the physical body -which they say is just food we have eaten-we go for rebirth in other(physical)body.

And what can I do to help my father now? what I know from AYP method is to do samyama for him.what else can I do?

appreciate any response in advance.

Edited by - angeleeyes on Oct 15 2016 01:11:40 AM
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Charliedog

1582 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2016 :  04:17:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Charliedog's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Angeleeyes,

In AYP we don't go to much under the hood. What you mean are the five layers of being the kosha's. This are the five layers of being (body's) and their sanskrit names.

Physical Ė Annamaya kosha
Energy Ė Pranamaya kosha
Mental Ė Manamaya kosha
Wisdom Ė Vijnanamaya kosha
Bliss Ė Anandamaya kosha
Self Ė Atman

You can google on kosha's and causal body to find out more. It is interesting but not to explain in short in English for me. You don't need to intellectually know everything, practice will lead you to experience that we are more then the physical body. Understanding with the mind is not easy if we don't have the experience first.

Maybe it is helpful for you to say to your father what you would like him to know about your feelings at this moment. You can do this in a prayer, a ritual maybe and release this in silence Samyama style, or you can choose to write this in a letter to him.

Wishing you love, strength, unity

PS Read back the reply's you already received, wise words

Edited by - Charliedog on Oct 15 2016 07:07:40 AM
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