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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 09:51:41 AM
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Hi Near:
The difference between this discussion and others in AYP is that we are investigating various approaches to self-inquiry with the aim of distilling out a simple and practical approach that will be useful for people who are already practicing AYP deep meditation. So, in that sense, your concern is being addressed. The systems we look at here are not being endorsed necessarily, only examined for their value. In the end, I hope something useful will come out of it. In the meantime, everyone will no doubt develop their own opinions about self-inquiry, which is very good too. AYP does not dictate any particular style for our daily living. These approaches are for daily living, so variations in style are to be expected.
Whichever way it goes, as inner silence rises, most of us are inclined to do something useful with it. Samyama is for that. And so is self-inquiry.
I have seen cases like Sean mentioned, in cloistered meditative environments, where meditators with lots of inner silence could not handle the fact that the salt shaker had been moved to the wrong end of the table. That is a very limited and conditioned enlightenment. We want to take our inner silence and develop it into unconditional enlightenment. That means getting involved in life. That is why I say go out and engage after meditation, and pay attention (inquire). Whether we are using other systematic approaches to living or not, this alone will produce an integration of inner silence into our life. And also ecstatic conductivity, when it rises -- there are interesting new perspectives on the relationship of ecstatic conductivity and inner silence in activity in the new AYP Spinal Breathing book coming out in a few weeks -- explaining much better what we mean by "stillness in action."
The guru is in you.
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2006 : 3:16:02 PM
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It is really cool that the new book is coming out in a few weeks only. I am looking forward  |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 11:18:33 PM
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Hari Om
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
One thing I am against is turning us into highly disciplined all day long "practice robots"...Not only does that not work, it is not much fun either. I strongly believe that whatever we do ought to be a joy in daily life.
Hello Yogani,
Yes, this all day thing perhaps may be good for some, yet for the householder, it's not practical. That said the joy part is so so important. Some may shrug this off as a by-product of their practice, as it comes in 'glimpses and snippets'. Yet I suggest this is a good thing and is the essence of creation. Do we get attached to it, nope, but do we appreciate it, yes. There is multiple reasons for this joy and delight. This essence of delight is at the core of existence, this is the famed soma that the rishi's have experienced and expressed in the Ved. This essence is divine.
This soma is rarely understood, and many a scholar ( east and west), not keen on how the rishi's viewed the works of creation , takes the soma for a physical thing ( of all things wine). Soma is known as a creeper, as the moon, Chandra, etc. Perhaps at a later date a post on this would be of interest to some. I am continually in awe when reading the insights of the past sages and the knowledge they possess. The key is reading from sadhu's and pundits that 'get it' and/or of enlightened sight.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2006 : 08:22:09 AM
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I agree. There is an area between "all day practice robots" and "all day joy" however for some personality types, and some times.
I have learned that not being joyful can become a habit, or sort of addiction, and it's not hard to break by endeavouring to keep my perception in line. So at times this might seem like practice robot stuff, but I see it more like "surfing" reality, where certain controls are monitored, and the results are much more pleasurable and fun.
This may only apply to some of us who have learned errant thought or perception patterns, I don't know. But I'll start to get in a bad mood (for days) and have to force myself to improve it, all it takes is a decision with volition behind it, and other times I start thinking so much I'm not paying attention to the moment, and again, decide to be more mindful. Other times I may have the habit of concentrating on one goal in the back of my mind, like whether people like me or not, and forget to have fun and not care. So my self inquiry includes a checklist of minor corrections that make a big difference in day to day life. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2006 : 10:29:00 AM
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Hi Ether:
I believe we all have "errant thought or perception patterns" and one of the primary effects of yoga is the dissolving of these. Inner silence via deep meditation will do much of the job on its own, but we can certainly add to our progress by choosing when we can, which is also a function of inner silence, our ability to witness how we relate to our thoughts and feelings, and the world around us.
The primary feedback we can use in this is how we feel. If we feel bad (i.e., "suffering"), then it is a signal of an errant pattern of thought or perception. If we are making others feel bad, it is the same thing, except we might not notice as easily -- an errant perception for sure. To get around this we can develop the ability to see the world through the eyes of others as well as through our own eyes. This too is a function of inner silence -- the witness. It always comes back to that.
In any case, once we can see our suffering, and the suffering of others (which is also ours), we are in a position to question the thoughts and perceptions that have created that suffering. Life is not inherently suffering. It just is. It is we who do the coloring of it.
Self-inquiry asks us to notice our thoughts and feelings, and question their validity when they create suffering. We can ask ourselves if we need a specific thought that is creating suffering, is it true, and what would we be like without that thought? Then we can turn the thought around and look at it 180 degress the opposite, like a mirror on ourselves instead of focused on the other. This is the Katie approach (in her book -- "Loving What Is"), which works like a razor. It is event-specific and therefore practical in the now. Is this the kind of mechanism you use, Ether?
Once we have isolated a thought or perception that brings suffering and sincerely questioned its validity, we can then rest our attention on it, and it will tend to dissolve much the way knots dissolve in meditation when we allow our attention to rest on them when they dominate our session to the extent we are not able to pick up the mantra easily. Like that, errant thoughts and perceptions can dominate the clarity of our life experience at times. And, like that, they can be dissolved once they have been recognized for what they are -- isolated and errant, outside the sphere of who we really are.
Of course, this is a simplification of a very complex dynamic. The errant thought and perception patterns are seemingly endless streams rooted in deep traumas of the past. We don't have to ferret out what all these roots are, thank goodness. But we should recognize that self-inquiry is a long term cultivation of habit in the way we look at ourselves and the world around us, so as to gradually dissipate the energies that are "errant." The more inner silence we have, the easier this will be, and the more often we will be having those "Ah Ha!" type releases. We do not have to travel down the same errant roads over and over again as we have in the past. We do have the option to choose something more -- a road of happiness for ourselves and those around us.
As soon as our inner silence affords us the growing discrimination that comes with the rise of the witness, we can take advantage of it. That too is a choice we can make -- to use the witness. It is the big one that changes everything. A sea change in our perception of ourselves and everything around us. Once that happens, self-inquiry becomes pretty much a cake walk, like washing the dishes and taking out the trash. We realize we don't have to be hanging on to the trash anymore -- our ego-driven errant thought and perception patterns. We just let them go in each moment, and find that right underneath them we are an endless sea of ecstatic bliss. In time, we are easily dissolving the errant stuff like patches of brown foam floating on our infinite crystal clear sea.
This is self-inquiry, karma yoga, and bhakti all rolled into one. And thank goodness for inner silence!
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2006 : 11:38:02 PM
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Can I throw in a very enthusiastic plug here for Sailor Bob as a real good contemplative counterpart to the more utilitarian practices of AYP?
Lots of good reading on his site, at http://members.iinet.net.au/~adamson7
and his book "What's Wrong with Right Now, Unless You Think About It?" is just terrific.
Sailor Bob is sort of the Yogani of nondualism. He strips it down to the essence, and reading him is downright infectious (at least for me; this sort of thing is not everyone's cup of tea....so if it leaves you confused, by all means skip it) |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2006 : 11:21:17 AM
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Yogani wrote:
"Then we can turn the thought around and look at it 180 degress the opposite, like a mirror on ourselves instead of focused on the other. This is the Katie approach (in her book -- "Loving What Is"), which works like a razor. It is event-specific and therefore practical in the now. Is this the kind of mechanism you use, Ether?"
I think so. It's not that I blame other people or the outside world for my feelings. i know they come from me, but have certain bad habits in perception that lead me astray that I have to watch. Things will seem to go badly for a time, and i'll just sort of ignore them, thinking it will go away eventually.
After a while I realize I'm including too many things in that category of stuff going bad that will go away. Then I realize I'm not really ignoring them, but storing them in a category of stuff that has to change for me to be happier. As soon as I see that, I change my attitude and truly ignore them, then everything's OK.
I used to have a girlfriend who would tell me "You've been in a bad mood for a while." Then I would change, but now i do that myself. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 1:17:40 PM
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I have been trying something for a month now, just thought I would share it with you. Since the topic of Self Inquiry was brought up.. people have given such wonderful ideas. and are making so much progress in their self development... I am really impressed.
This is what I have been doing..a little of Tolle and Yogani I guess. I realized, whenever I am alone, my mind starts working overtime.. I keep thinking.. thinking.. thinking... till my thoughts take a life of its own. These days, as soon as I realize I am thinking, I bring my mind back to where I am.. so if I am driving.. I watch the cars, the tree, listen to the music on the radio or mantra playing on a CD. Just like I do in my meditation.. as soon as I realize I am off the mantra, I go back to the mantra.. so too during the day.. as soon as I realize I am off on one of my thought trips.. I come back to what I am doing. Just like mediation, I may not stay there for long.. and go back into my thought land.. but again just like meditation, when I realize I am off.. I bring myself back. I think it is working pretty well.. and for the last 2 weeks I have been able to stay in the present more often. I know I still have a long way to go.. but this is one things that has worked for me.. esp. since I think my mind does not realize it is losing its identity yet.. so I have faced very little resistance. Also since I have been applying Yogani's meditation technique.. to every day life.. I don't beat myself up if it did not work. But then as I said.. I have a long way to go.. these are baby steps.. but steps in the right direction I hope..
Once I get a hang of this, I plan on adding Katie too.. I like what she says.. I need a lot of improvement in my personal relationships too.. actually more than improvement I think I need to reassess and redefine my personal relationships.. but need to get one thing straightened out at a time.
PS: One more thing this has helped me with is.. when I get stuck behind a slow moving vehicle and I know I am going to be late... I don't get angry any more.. I sort of laugh at the situation.. the worst.. I will be 10 mins late for some lesson.. or work.. I know I cannot do anything legal and get around it.. if I get angry it does not help the situation.. so I follow at 10 mph.. I just thank God though that he did not make me is Very Important Person who would lose out on a million dollar deal because I am enjoying the slow drive. |
Edited by - Shanti on May 05 2006 3:26:51 PM |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 3:39:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
These days, as soon as I realize I am thinking, I bring my mind back to where I am.. so if I am driving.. I watch the cars, the tree, listen to the music on the radio or mantra playing on a CD. Just like I do in my meditation..
Hey Shanti,
I've thought lot of times about doing this. But dint you feel it to be a lot of work?
I would like to hear from Yogani about this, especially regarding the benifits. Are there real benifits or minor ones compared to the effort we put in.
-Near |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 3:42:51 PM
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quote:
Shanti wrote: These days, as soon as I realize I am thinking, I bring my mind back to where I am.. so if I am driving.. I watch the cars, the tree, listen to the music on the radio ... Just like I do in my meditation.. as soon as I realize I am off the mantra, I go back to the mantra.. so too during the day.. as soon as I realize I am off on one of my thought trips.. I come back to what I am doing.
Hi Shanti:
You are on to something important there. The gentle persuasion of attention over thoughts. It is a choice we can make. No sledge-hammer needed. Only some inner silence and an easy intention. In time it becomes a habit we do not even think about. Keep up the good work!
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2006 : 11:03:44 AM
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Woke up on Saturday with a whiff of depression.. my heart was heavy. I had decided this time I was not going to let this slight breeze become a tornado.
(check page 2 of the thread "drugs, depression, and yoga".. post by Jim
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1016 )
On days like this, all I want to do is be alone, however that has never worked, and it wasn't going to work this Sat either. So I went ahead with my day.
In this thread I talked about what Tolle says about PMS
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=808
quote:
The way he says you can control it is...
"When you feel that the menstrual flow is approaching, before you feel the first signs of PMS, the awakening of the collective female pain body, become very alert and inhabit your body as fully as possible. When the first sign appears, be alert enough to "catch" it before it takes you over."
So I tried to feel this negative energy in me. I am not too good at isolating energy or feeling powerful energetic charge.. all I felt was this heaviness in my heart. I closed my eyes and tried to feel the silence I do when I meditate. I located it somewhere deep in my stomach or navel area. I tried to bring this up and fill me. This silence filled me.. except my heart. I could still feel the tornado building.. but it was contained in the heart.
I went through my entire day feeling this heaviness in my heart.. and worked real hard on just keeping it there.. not letting it take over my entire body. I had a very busy day.. went from one thing to the other but all the time being conscious of this tornado building in my heart.. but containing it just there. There were a few time my eyes filled up with tears.. fortunately I was driving then.. and I seem to have better control of myself when I am driving.. like I said in the post above, I bring myself to the present by watching the cars and trees. My daughters were reading and were not in a very chatty mood.. thank goodness for that.. I could concentrate more on myself.
By the time it was 9.00 pm and I finished all the chore and dinner.. the heaviness in my heart was much less (I managed to read the AYP book for about an hour during one of the kids practice sessions.. that always helps). I had actually made it through the day without the "feeling of depression" taking over me. I went to turn my computer off and there was a "sweet" email there from a friend.. that put a smile on my face and got rid of the final signs of the tornado.
This is the first time, for as long as I can remember, I have not gone into a depression after that first smell of it. It was a lot of hard work staying focused on not letting this thing take over. But it worked and I have saved myself from going through 5 to 7 days of an emotional roller-coaster. I had a few more of these feelings of "heavy heart" over Sunday and today.. but they were short and easier to control.
Wonder if this will get easier with time. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2006 : 12:48:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Wonder if this will get easier with time.
It will get easier with meditation. Meditation teaches you to neutrally bring your mind back from its wanderings, and that neutrality is critical.
If a depressive who doesn't meditate strives to keep his/her mind from severely drifting into flights of fancy, the process of noticing and reigning in that tendency to slide will create feelings of anxiety and shame and frustration. And that, needless to say, just makes the whole thing worse ("I suck...can't even control my mind...look how hard I have to work").
Meditation teaches us to be gentle in focusing our mind....gentle to the point of absolute neutrality (aka "the witness"). And that's incredibly helpful, though this is also why meditation is a bad idea for someone in the midst of severe depression (i.e. the full tornado, rather than the light breeze). In those times, the mind is locked like a vise, and neutral gentleness is not possible...so everything feeds the cyclone. Plus introspection/introversion is a huge mistake, as you've noticed, Shanti. It's a closing down, and that also feeds the cyclone. Depressives ought to always opt for action and engagement, to the extent they're able. (And meditation - at least before the late stages - is the epitome of introversion. The recession of the senses, slowing down of metabolism, etc, exacerbates the whole thing.)
Shanti, this was your first try. Sounds like it worked pretty well. And it's really quite a triumph to have caught yourself early (can you back up even further, to the point when the mind juuuust starts to slip its moorings next time? The earlier you notice, the more you'll see it's a whole lot of nothing...and the easier it'll be to gently reign in).
But let me correct one thing (and I think this will help). You said "It was a lot of hard work staying focused on not letting this thing take over." That's 180 degrees wrong. Rather, "this thing" was doing a lot of hard work to NOT stay focused...and you were chasing it. The energy is lost in the flights of fancy. Don't chase, don't try to spew counteractive positivity. Just neutrally, gently, control the wanderings, just as blandly and neutrally as you do in meditation. Again, as I said in the other thread, I'm not talking about a spiritual practice of staying precisely in the moment (aka "be here now"). I'm talking at a much coarser level: containing the extreme excesses of the depressive's tendency to fly off into flights of fantasy, mulling over the past and fantasizing about the future. There's a lot of string to be gently pulled in.
The way this all dawned on me was, in the midst of a terrible depression, hearing someone on the radio talking about "out-of-body experiences". I realized, in a huge jolt, that it'd been ages since I'd had an in-body experience. I was everywhere but here. I was indulging my mind's inclination to chase after empty fantasy. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 08 2006 12:55:55 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2006 : 1:55:44 PM
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Jim,
The only reason I said "It was a lot of hard work staying focused on not letting this thing take over." .. if I did not stay consciously focused on it.. I was scared I would get sucked into the black hole ... If I did not have control on it.. I would, as you said, "fly off into flights of fantasy, mulling over the past and fantasizing about the future". I did not want to slip. I will not argue with you about it being 180 degrees wrong... just needed that extra push.. just needed to see for myself that I could make it happen. There will be many more next times to try what you have suggested. Thanks Jim.
-Shanti. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2006 : 2:49:05 PM
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ok, but to be clear: I wasn't saying "180 degrees wrong" to, like, beat you up or argue or anything. Quite the contrary. Just trying to help make it a less arduous process......the energy isn't in the bringing back, the energy's inthe sailing off. Sometimes a complete flip of mindset can be super relaxing and encouraging (hey, I'd greatly appreciate being shown ways in which *I* wrongly think I need to work hard when I don't really need to!).
Glad you're on a good track. Every minute of depression I can help alleviate .1% is worth the effort. It's an awful problem, and it's all about nothing. Blech. Catch it early, and it's so simple to see. The problem's catching it early, but AYP has clearly strengthened your witness. And the witness is real good at noticing problems created from nothing! :) |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 08 2006 2:50:56 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2006 : 3:31:50 PM
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quote:
Jim said: ok, but to be clear: I wasn't saying "180 degrees wrong" to, like, beat you up or argue or anything
I did not take it that way. Just because I don't know how to turn it around 180 degrees right now, does not mean it will be that way forever.. that's all. Thank you Jim. I do appreciate your post. |
Edited by - Shanti on May 08 2006 7:20:26 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 12:57:16 PM
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Reading Sailor Bob's book "What's Wrong with Right Now, Unless You Think About It?", was not very easy.. but I enjoyed it.. takes time to read this book with the "mind"..
One things he said.. we are constantly being bombarded with external stimuli.. sound, smell, touch, sight.. it is all there.. being registered by our brains.. but we don't do anything about it, till our mind decides to join in and attach an emotion, a meaning or a thought to it. The car drives by.. we hear it.. but it is only when our mind decides to butt in.. then we think.. Oh! a car drove by... if we were busy with something else.. we would not even think about it.
This morning I was driving and I saw a dead skunk.. my mind says.. hold your breath.. stinky smell ahead.. I did not hold my breath.. and in a few seconds I could smell it.. my mind said.. "told ya!.. hold your breath".. so I held my breath for a second.. and decided not to.. and that smell was yucky.. and why is the smell yucky.. because we have been programmed from when we were a child.. that this is good and that is bad.. duality.. our mind is fixed on it.. so when I did not hold my breath.. my mind was confused.. "ummm!!! what happened here?" You know, the smell did not even bother me after that..
Wonder if I can apply it to everything that happens to me today...
Another thing that I have been trying for a couple of days.. I love it.. the min I realize I have a thought that has nothing to do with what I am doing right now.. I skip it.. actually dismiss it.. it comes back again.. skip it again.. gets replaced by another though.. jump it.. its like a game. I am losing my mind here you know!!
Hey, I am not good at any of these yet.. but for the first time I can actually tell you that my mind is separate from myself.. Ya! I know most of you are thinking..So?.. we always knew this to be true.. but not me.. so far my mind was me.. but these days I do get glimpses of something that is not my mind.. very tiny.. fraction of a second glimpses.. I cannot put this in words nor can I figure it out myself.. Yes Jim, I know, I don't have to figure it out.. that is something the mind does...
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Edited by - Shanti on Jun 02 2006 12:58:12 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 1:49:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Wonder if I can apply it to everything that happens to me today...
you don't have to "apply" anything. We are all already over-applying literally like madmen. We perceive something, then process that perception to determine if we like it or not, if it makes our environment feel better or worse, if it's something we want to grasp for more of or to recoil from. Too much processing, overlaying and application. When I say yoga is subtractive that's what I mean. Don't just do something....stand there!
The problem is too much application of concepts. You can not solve this problem by applying new or better concepts. Just let the universe be exactly as it is right now.
http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hsinhsinming.html |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 02 2006 4:01:39 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 2:15:06 PM
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http://www.allspirit.co.uk/hsinhsinming.html
Wow!
quote:
The entire problem is too much application of concepts. You can not solve the problem by applying new or better concepts. Just let the universe be exactly as it is right now.
Jim,
For now.. this is just another concept to me.. Sorry..
This morning I had a sudden realization.. few months back you had posted a topic.. "Why I don't want to be enlightened".. Those days.. my only focus in life was to get enlightened.. I don't know when I lost it.. but now the practice is more because I like doing it.. not because I have to get somewhere.. I have stopped looking for signs that my practice is working for me.. I know it is.. and I cannot hurry it up..
Today I will agree with you when you say...
quote:
I don't want to be enlightened. Enlightenment is just another goal to aspire to. Another project. Another thing to work on and get better at. Another attempt to fill a void. Another silly treadmill.
"Enlightenment" is in the future. In the future. In the future (shall I write it one hundred more times?). I want to open myself to the now and get off this ridiculous treadmill. And I want to do it now. To hell with the future. To hell with enlightenment.
And I do AYP because it's what I feel I must do. Much as I brush my teeth.
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Edited by - Shanti on Jun 02 2006 2:47:15 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 2:49:03 PM
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Hi Shanti
I also 'apply' the skunk-smelling and thought over-passing techniques. I guess for some of us we still need to make conscious decisions 'in time' to constantly pull us in line. It is good we are doing so...steps of 'applying' our attention in the 'right direction'.
Peace in action, alan |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 7:58:21 PM
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Me too. I have to turn my thoughts off when they keep coming up with BS reactions. When we don't like what's happening around us, it's usually because we have a preconceived notion of what's perfect, instead of just watching what happens without comparing it to anything.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2006 : 4:35:24 PM
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Sorry to make you guys read my silly posts on my little triumphs.. hopefully my last one in this thread...
In one of the above posts I had talked about making a conscious effort to live in the present.. well I saw the positive results of it on Sat. On Sat my girls had their annual music recital. There were 60 items on the program.. it is a long affair. I was in charge of making sure the recital itself ran smoothly, without any major disruptions and on time (very important.. when 50 kids participate,(all solo and a few group songs)the pgm can go on forever).
Anyway.. any other time, I would have been going over what I would have to do in my head.. go over the participant list and the MC list and the program guide... and a gazillion details.. again and again for a few days. But this time I kept reminding myself I have to go over the stuff, but something in me refused to get all worried and tensed and just kept me away from it all. The first time I looked at the papers was a half hour before the pgm.. and I did not even have to think.. I had it all figured out. I had the participants in place when they had to be up on stage (50 of them) .. One of them was done and the next one was ready with their music and instrument (when required, the instruments were varied.. tablas, sitar, keyboard) .. and the MCs(11 of them) on their toes, not wasting even one second.. and the awards and certificates in place. This was the first year the pgm ran on time, without one single problem.. we did not even run 5 mins over..
Now, I thought that was amazing.. I know many of you will think its silly.. but this was the first time I saw my self inq (inner silence) at work... It was not me.. I did it all.. but I actually did nothing.. OK!! that is crazy.. Sorry guys...(ummmm..after Yoda's post on amaroli.. I have to think before I use this smiley again) |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 05 2006 : 11:53:32 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Verbose self enquiry for me, always stonewalled... I was always looking for ways to get off the hook, or make myself look better. When I encountered harshness in verbal or real responses to my self-enquiry, I could see myself... but the image depressed me so much that it almost froze the process.
Meditation over a time has indeed, as you say, cultivated the inner silence necessary for that self-enquiry without the debilating self-judgement or self-criticism.
There is so much theory around. I feel solid examples with multiple approaches to the same situation, to suit different kinds of people could help more get there faster.
It's like a place which offers not only the most updated version of the vehicle, but also vehicles of all categories: MUVs, bikes, aircraft, autos, cycles, rickshaws...
It's a tall order. But that's what you're seemingly headed towards.
I'm writing this fuzzily, because there's something important here...but I don't know whether I've spotted it or if I have, expressed it clearly. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2006 : 07:49:22 AM
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Shanti wrote:
"Now, I thought that was amazing.. I know many of you will think its silly.. but this was the first time I saw my self inq (inner silence) at work... It was not me.. I did it all.. but I actually did nothing.. OK!! that is crazy.. Sorry guys..."
Don't be sorry- it's not silly at all! i've worked a little with stage productions too; it can be really hard. This is the same thing we all run into; we have the illusion that we control things, so we control too much.
I've had very similar revelations. i've always tried to do my best but got caught up in worrying about the outcome. Then I realized: If I am relaxed, and doing everything I can, who cares if the whole thing goes wrong- it would have nothing to do with my effort! So I decided to put ALL my energy into doing what I'm doing at the moment instead of splitting some of it off on worrying. I decided I don't care if it all goes wrong.
It had an interesting outcome. I found I was actually doing better than before because the worrying was taking some of my energy. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2006 : 10:54:01 AM
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Hi Sadhak:
Yes, for many, self-inquiry is a mind swamp full of mosquitoes, quicksand and alligators. No place to stand except on egoic suppositions, which will take us on wild goose chases through the swamp every time.
Real self-inquiry is beyond all that. It rests in our silence, which means the entire process depends on something that came before, another method, deep meditation, which brings about the rise of the witness. That is the thing, you know. Either that, or the witness is present already (via previous efforts), a la Tolle, Katie and others who wake up one day like that, and they tell us all about how to take it from there, from their waking-up point. Well, fine, but from where is that?! So we end up genuflecting at the altar of their mysterious condition -- a condition we could easily cultivate for ourselves, if only we knew how. Meditate!
Just as you say, without inner silence it is pretty fuzzy. But look what happens with some simple inner silence creeping up. Shanti manages a stage production without even trying. Bravo! Stillness in action! Encore!
So what do we need self-inquiry for? Well, for the same reason we need bhakti. These things will move us forward if taken to our deepest levels in stillness. Besides making the day (between the meditations) much more interesting, these processes give us understanding and perspective on the gift within us. More than that -- they give us energetic stillness, alive and moving outward from us into the world. There is no doubt we can make better use of our stillness if we learn a few good methods (or non-methods), and self-inquiry is about that.
Stillness blends with mind, emotions and ecstasy, and that is the process of enlightenment going forward. It is an automatic process. There is little we have to do but let go into what we are, once we experience that we are That ... all the strategies are for That. Enter Tolle, Katie, Ramana Maharishi, et al. Until then, it is all a big fuzz, a mind swamp. Inner silence is our boat. Let's arrange for the boat before we go too far into the swamp. It is common sense...
The guru is in you.
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2006 : 1:08:54 PM
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Etherfish said: "So I decided to put ALL my energy into doing what I'm doing at the moment instead of splitting some of it off on worrying. I decided I don't care if it all goes wrong. It had an interesting outcome. I found I was actually doing better than before because the worrying was taking some of my energy."
Hi Etherfish:
You are absolutely right. Self-inquiry is about choice. And so is bhakti/karma yoga, which you are also touching on there.
Traditionally, jnana yoga/self-inquiry is called the "path of discrimination."
But on what basis are we choosing? Knowing that rational thinking is a minefield, it would seem that choosing the path of least complication, least worry and angst, would the most rational (!) way. At least until our deepest hot buttons get pushed, and then we are back into the mire.
What we need is that which is beyond all thinking, inner silence. That is the table upon which everything else in us rests, hot buttons and all. Once we know we are the table (a permanent state of being), it is much easier to move the stuff around on the table to suit the need of the moment, or clear it all off the table at will. It is our choice.
Become inner silence and the choices become easy -- self-inquiry becomes easy. Everything we do before that is a temporary solution -- a negotiation of thinking with thinking.
There is no negotiation between the witness and thinking. The witness permeates thinking and thinking (and all resulting action) dissolve into pure divine purpose. Then there can be lots of thinking and action coming through us as the divine flow pours out. And all we do is watch, in a continual state of ecstatic bliss. That is what we are...
The guru is in you.
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Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations
