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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 09 2009 : 10:02:16 AM
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Several people have asked me how to do some of the simple Buddhist practices that I have mentioned in the forum. To save time (and because there are possibly more people interested) I thought I would post them here in separate threads. The first practice is breathing meditation:
Instructions for breathing meditation (Anapanasati)
Sit down with your eyes closed in a comfortable position. Let your breathing come in and out as is natural. There is no need to slow the breath down or speed it up, or to breathe deeper than you would normally. Bring the attention to the breath simply flowing into the body, and flowing out again. You can be aware of the breath either at the nostrils, or deeper down in the body as it fills the lungs, or you can simply be aware of the whole process of breathing. People tend to find their own natural preference. If the mind wanders away from the breath then gently notice that the mind has wandered and bring it back to the breath. Each time it wanders, bring it gently back again. Sometimes there will be a natural pause between the in breath and the out breath, or between the out breath and the in breath. When this happens, simply be aware that the breath is suspended either inside the body, or outside it.
With repeated practice you will find that the mind wanders less, and the natural, spacious quality of the mind becomes more apparent.
It is really one of the simplest and most beautiful spiritual practices there is. If I have left anything out, please let me know.
Enjoy.
Christi
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2009 : 1:24:44 PM
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Hi Christi
Wow....great, I've been wanting to ask you what your breathing practices were like 
For some reason unknown to me......I had never practiced breath meditation.....until just recently. Over the last year....when the ecstacy was so that I am having trouble keeping my eyes open during daily activity.....then I have taken up just sitting..instead of doing the mantra. And when just sitting.....the attention was automatically drawn towards the breath.....so watching the breath sort of happened of itself....and it is amazing how this......collected everything..... into calmness..
But I didn't know "how to do it"....so just kept it very simple like that.....sometimes wondering if this was "breath meditation"...or if there was more to it....
So it seems this version of it has a name...Anapanasati 
Can I ask you what the name means.....as you can see I am in love with it *LOL*
Thank you so much Christi - great that you made this a topic of its own 
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2009 : 1:37:59 PM
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Yes,its a wonderful spiritual practice.Very pleasant and helpful.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2009 : 3:57:38 PM
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Hi Katrine,
quote:
So it seems this version of it has a name...Anapanasati
Can I ask you what the name means.....
Anapana is the process of breathing and sati means mindfullness, so it is literally "mindfullness of breathing". The language is Pali.
quote:
For some reason unknown to me......I had never practiced breath meditation.....until just recently. Over the last year....when the ecstacy was so that I am having trouble keeping my eyes open during daily activity.....then I have taken up just sitting..instead of doing the mantra. And when just sitting.....the attention was automatically drawn towards the breath.....so watching the breath sort of happened of itself....and it is amazing how this......collected everything..... into calmness..
I believe this is how spiritual practices are discovered. I don't imagine that anyone thought: "Hey, I could sit down and watch my breath every day for an hour and see if anything really incredible happens".  It would be a truly inspired person to have that thought...
I think it much more likely that it went the other way, that people already in an elevated state of awareness saw the connection between (in this case) the breath, calmness (stillness) and ecstasy. Then, working backwards they could see that if someone else was to practice this every day, they would gradually come into that state of awareness themselves.
quote:
But I didn't know "how to do it"....so just kept it very simple like that.....sometimes wondering if this was "breath meditation"...or if there was more to it....
No... nothing more to it. It's simlplicity almost hides it's elegance and completeness as a practice. The Buddha once said that this practice is suitable for complete beginners and can take you right through to the highest stage of realization.
From a yogic point of view it combines a range of spiritual processes. One pointed attention on any part of the breath is tratak. Concentration on the breath in general is dharana (the resting of the attention on an object), and absorption, or merging with the breath is dhyana. So this is the stillness/ bliss aspect of the practice which leads to samadhi.
From another angle though, the breath is closely related to the subtle energy of the body and to kundalini. So the practice has an ecstatic aspect as I'm sure you have noticed. From an AYP point of view, looking at enlightenment as the merging of ecstasy and bliss, it isn't surprising that the Buddha said that this practice could take one right through to enlightenment.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Oct 11 2009 10:54:28 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2009 : 3:58:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Yes,its a wonderful spiritual practice.Very pleasant and helpful.
Hi Miguel,
I'm glad you enjoy it.
Christi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 3:51:05 PM
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Hi Christi
Thank you for taking time to explain in depth...I am very grateful
quote:
Concentration on the breath in general is dharana (the resting of the attention on an object), and absorbtion, or merging with the breath is dhyana.
Yes.....
This sounds like what happened for so long during normal waking hours. The ecstacy will still come in waves.... more and more of....that which needs to transform the nervous system.....and though it has refined a lot over the years....especially this last year......it still....I can still be intoxicatied with it to the extent that the temptation to close the eyes is just bearly resisted :) But I am not drowning in it anymore......inside it is peace....as it is in everything else...and if i stay still with eyes open...the ecstatic waves brings clarity...not intoxication. And in clarity is Love. And in Love is clear compassion.
Also....because of the healings.....there seem to be other "frequencies" that use this body when engaged in this kind of work. And the nervous system has to adapt to these too.....it never ends..the opening to it.....I have no idea at all what it is doing...only that it comes...and leaves.....and I am completely still while working....it is very obvious that noone ever does anything....all happens of itself....
So dhyana then....is..almost "unconscious absorbtion"....
When spontaneous samadhi happens.....all activity ceases....all words drop. It is not ecstacy as in an...intoxication. It is different.....in that it moves not at all. Not even ecstatic bliss....the word 'ecstatic' is a ripple.....(at least in the ears here in Norway )...and it is without ripples..... there are no words that....transmit that....."wetness" of the "still ocean" that is samadhi...
So it must be before breath...
That...complete still love...is not to fathom.....one can only be taken by it......again and again....
The "wetness"....can happen at work or anywhere......sometimes short..other times long periods.....in a split second….as if there is no bridge to it (it is completely uncaused)…. the mind will fall into the heart and then stay here…..
Dharana and dhyana....these are not spontaneous then.... They are ...induced. I guess this is the definition of "practice"...although noone really practices either...it just seems so :)
But Samadhi can never be practiced....it is not something that is "on the way to something else"..it is spontaneously happening of itself .....also without the two others (dharana and dhyana) to precede it....or so it seems here.....
Yet... without all the practice...without concentration and absorption (Deep meditation)......over years ....no samadhi would have come of itself either.....at least not here in this body :)
So amen to deep meditation!
Anyway...when not able to keep the eyes open....and if not at work or active in other ways....slipping into dhyana (in a way..choosing to be be seduced by it outside meditation times) and unconsciously staying there is what created all the overload for years.....
So that is why the breath meditation is felt to be so great....it is self-pacing and yet still practice...
Merging with breath...dhyana like this......is not as deep a dhyana as the Deep Meditation.....right?
Not to lose consciousness ...creates a balance between the calmness and the ecstacy....and in the middle of that …one just is.
Even if this is a...hmm..what to call it....a "lesser" (sorry can't find a proper word to describe it)... samadhi. It is less "wet". But in this way...the breath is seemingly a bridge....and like you say....I find that watching the breath marries stillness and ecstacy...resulting in ...that which has no words. Eyes open or closed. So here....the breath meditation is of great help regarding the consistency of the practice.
Also....when in activity.....where the mind is not used mentally...but as a ....cognizer..... this is the same. Activity also creates balance between ecstacy and calmness....and here it is felt to be the aspect of Joy that is the "samadhi" in this balance And this....and joy...is the wetness radiating.....it is a paradox that.....that the wetness radiates...even though it is without ripples.....
Ok...
Regarding the mindfulness of breathing:
quote:
No... nothing more to it. It's simlplicity almost hides it's elegance and completeness as a practice. The Buddha once said that this practice is suitable for complete beginners and can take you right through to the highest stage of realization.
That is just beautiful.
Stunning simplicity like that.....
Thanks again for all your help Christi
PS. And sorry for the rambling...ment to stick to only breath.....
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 10:34:38 PM
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Hi Katrine et al.
quote:
Also....when in activity.....where the mind is not used mentally...but as a ....cognizer..... this is the same. Activity also creates balance between ecstacy and calmness....and here it is felt to be the aspect of Joy that is the "samadhi" in this balance
This reminded me of what Yogani wrote the other day in lesson 363:
quote:
Practices and keeping busy are the way.
This got me contemplating a little bit because I have recently just emerged from a very busy period of life over the last several months and noticed how the brain was more a "cognizer" as you phrase it above. Solving what needed to be dissolved in a sense. The only challenge with extreme business is it can take a while to slow down mentally. The benefit though is that there is little time to contemplate the "me" and how the story of I is going. I could see how too much "idleness" could lead to too much focus on the process of spiritual transformation rather than the practice. All in balance I guess.
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sagebrush
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 10:05:41 AM
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ok christy-
I am on it!
That seems like a very simple step about starting to watch the breath.
Do I need to be concerned about whether I breath thru my nose or thru my mouth or vice/versa.
because I am sure that I am doing that wrong.
thanks-
and I am happy that we breath the same air! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 10:53:14 AM
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Hi Katrine,
quote:
Anyway...when not able to keep the eyes open....and if not at work or active in other ways....slipping into dhyana (in a way..choosing to be be seduced by it outside meditation times) and unconsciously staying there is what created all the overload for years.....
So that is why the breath meditation is felt to be so great....it is self-pacing and yet still practice...
Merging with breath...dhyana like this......is not as deep a dhyana as the Deep Meditation.....right?
Yes, breathing meditation is lighter than Deep Meditation, as has been mentioned a few times in this forum, so the practice has less of a tendancy to cause energetic problems. But when dharana becomes dhyana (merging) with the breath it can have a strong pull on kundalini at the base of the spine. This could be what has been causing your overload symptoms over the past few years. When it is merging happening outside of practices, personally I find that it is always a choice whether to be "taken by it" or not. If I was experiencing symptoms of energy overload I would go and make a cup of tea instead.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 11:07:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sage
ok christy-
I am on it!
That seems like a very simple step about starting to watch the breath.
Do I need to be concerned about whether I breath thru my nose or thru my mouth or vice/versa.
because I am sure that I am doing that wrong.
thanks-
and I am happy that we breath the same air!
Hi Sage,
It is much better to breathe through the nose if you can. This is because of the biology of the subtle nervous system. In Yoga there are two subtle channels called the ida and pingala nadis. These two channels begin at the base of the spine (where they are connected to both the central channel and the sushumna nadi). The ida and pingala nadis rise up through the body and end at the nostrils. When we breathe consciously through the nose, we are not only breathing in air, but we are also helping to activate and balance these subtle channels. It is this action, as much as the effect of calmness which gives rise to the ecstatic aspect of breathing meditation.
Christi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 3:33:16 PM
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Hi Anthem
Thanks for sharing
Been wondering how you were doing regarding "Inspirational works", Byron Katie in Canada etc.
quote:
The only challenge with extreme business is it can take a while to slow down mentally. The benefit though is that there is little time to contemplate the "me" and how the story of I is going. I could see how too much "idleness" could lead to too much focus on the process of spiritual transformation rather than the practice. All in balance I guess.
Yes...this is the experience here too.
Keeping active is crucial.
Have you practised breath meditation? (Sorry if you have written about it before)
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 4:16:13 PM
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Hi Christi
quote:
But when dharana becomes dhyana (merging) with the breath it can have a strong pull on kundalini at the base of the spine. This could be what has been causing your overload symptoms over the past few years.
Christi
Oh.....hmm.....don't know why I haven't connected these dots before....but when frequent dhyana happened outside practices here....I never connected it to the breath. It never dawned here...that it was "merging with breath"....since I had not been focusing on it.....but when in dhyana like this...there would almost always be cessation of breath ...the breath simply stopped.....but noticing of this happened only after a long time....
quote:
When it is merging happening outside of practices, personally I find that it is always a choice whether to be "taken by it" or not. If I was experiencing symptoms of energy overload I would go and make a cup of tea instead.
Lucky you *LOL*
Go making tea would work here too...but drinking it.....always creates surges . So....make tea...and then serve it to somebody else maybe
And yes......after Yogani explained in that post a few years ago about how they caught their son in the cookie jar..........and how he would say "not me" (who ate the cookies)......well, it clicked. I was just like him (only I did not have the excuse of being 3 ...or 4 years old ) So absolutely....there is choice. Also....there is a difference between being "seduced" and being "taken". Just like there is a difference between indulgence and surrender. The first perpetuates the identification with the bodymind. The second kindly anihilates it.
One can indulge in just about anything....and particularly "the process towards the light". But this too....and the pursuit we "map" for ourselves......can be escape from the longing. And this great teacher that is the longing....even though it is an ache that is painful.....is what also discriminiates between seduction and surrender. It is a sobering drink...the longing is.
So the breath.....hopefully being mindful of it.....will also uncover when it stops of itself between sittings. This way....I can go "serve that tea" instead. And be of some use...while self-pacing |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 11:53:41 PM
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quote:
Yes...this is the experience here too.
Keeping active is crucial.
Good to know, another reason to see it as a positive in life.
quote:
Have you practised breath meditation? (Sorry if you have written about it before)
Not much, but enjoyed the very little that I experimented with. As you know though, my regular practice follows the AYP script pretty closely.
My wife on the other hand, being too sensitive for AYP Deep meditation practice tp be stable for her, has taken on breath meditation as her regular daily practice for about a year now. She follows the other practices of AYP like sitting postures, asanas, inquiry, self pacing and having a regular practice routine to complement her breath meditation. I like to call it AYP lite.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 02:12:21 AM
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Hi Anthem
quote:
My wife on the other hand, being too sensitive for AYP Deep meditation practice tp be stable for her, has taken on breath meditation as her regular daily practice for about a year now. She follows the other practices of AYP like sitting postures, asanas, inquiry, self pacing and having a regular practice routine to complement her breath meditation. I like to call it AYP lite.
AYP lite...... |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 03:18:30 AM
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Hi Katrine,
quote:
Oh.....hmm.....don't know why I haven't connected these dots before....but when frequent dhyana happened outside practices here....I never connected it to the breath. It never dawned here...that it was "merging with breath"....since I had not been focusing on it.....but when in dhyana like this...there would almost always be cessation of breath ...the breath simply stopped.....but noticing of this happened only after a long time....
I would say that dhyana with the breath happens when you are focussing your attention on the breath.So if you don't associate it with the breath then it's dhyana with another object. Dhyana can happen with any object, physical or mental. For me, samadhi is a state of dhyana without any object.
quote:
Lucky you *LOL*
Go making tea would work here too...but drinking it.....always creates surges . So....make tea...and then serve it to somebody else maybe
I always drink caffine free tea. Maybe this would help.
quote:
So absolutely....there is choice. Also....there is a difference between being "seduced" and being "taken".
That's true. Once you are at the point of being taken, self-pacing becomes a thing of the past and you are at the mercy of the Divine.
I have heard, He is very merciful. Let's hope.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Oct 12 2009 06:02:54 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 03:39:13 AM
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2009 : 11:05:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
...
If I have left anything out, please let me know.
Enjoy.
Christi
Hi Christi,
I have been reading the "Anapanasati Sutta: Mindfulness of Breathing" from Konchok's link. It is not a simple breath meditation but a meditation which uses the breath to achieve certain goals and benefits.
Here is the link:
"Anapanasati Sutta: Mindfulness of Breathing" (MN 118), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, June 7, 2009, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi...18.than.html.
Here is part of the teaching:
quote:
"There is the case where a monk, having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building, sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect, and setting mindfulness to the fore. [1] Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.
"[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.'
[2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.'
 He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.'
[4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'
"[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.'
[6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.'
[7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.'
_8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'
"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.'
[10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.'
[11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.'
[12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'
"[13] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.'
[14] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.'
[15] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.'
[16] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'
You know, I'm a stickler for detail so I'm wondering why there is such a difference between the Anapanasati that you have written about and the one from the Pali. (I respect your knowledge and understanding and I'm not trying to put myself at odds with you, I hope you know that..)
On another note, I noticed these statements in the Pali:
quote:
I tell you, monks, that this — careful attention to in-&-out breaths — is classed as a feeling among feelings...
It's a feeling! I find it very funny how Kunlun, sensing the inner body - Tolle, "feeling the sense of I AM" -Nisargadatta and now this use "feeling" which is something that the mind does not do. Hmmm.. Tolle says that the more you feel, the more the mind shuts down. I'm always reading about how women have the advantage because they function more from the heart. That is the center of feeling.. interesting..
The other statement that really stuck out from the Pali is this:
quote:
AN 9.34 shows how the mind, step by step, is temporarily released from burdensome mental states of greater and greater refinement as it advances through the stages of jhana.
So, this whole Sutta seems to indicate to me that one uses the breath to grasp, and release the various forms (for lack of a better term) to climb the ladder of jhanas. The breath seems to be a very powerful tool. Simply focusing on "relinquishment" seems to be a short cut that somebody took?? And might it be dangerous just to focus on breathing without a specific goal or task in mind? I mean, if breathing is so powerful, shouldn't it be pointed at something?
:)
TI
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2009 : 5:28:11 PM
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Hi TI,
quote:
Hi Christi,
I have been reading the "Anapanasati Sutta: Mindfulness of Breathing" from Konchok's link. It is not a simple breath meditation but a meditation which uses the breath to achieve certain goals and benefits.
...
You know, I'm a stickler for detail so I'm wondering why there is such a difference between the Anapanasati that you have written about and the one from the Pali. (I respect your knowledge and understanding and I'm not trying to put myself at odds with you, I hope you know that..)
Absolutely.
The simple answer is that the teaching given in the Anapanasati Sutta is not the same as the practice of Mindfulness of Breathing (anapanasati) which I outlined above. The teaching given in the Anapanasati Sutta is an advanced practice where the Buddha shows how anapanasati can be used to explore the four foundations of mindfulness, which in turn leads to the seven factors of enlightenment. For this reason the Sutta should really be called the "Anapanasati, Satipatthana and Bojjhanga Sutta".
The practice given in the Sutta by the Buddha is a development of simple Breathing Meditation, where the breath is still used as an object of meditation. Awareness is expanded to include other aspects of the body and mind.
Some teachers say that this practice should not be started until the first Jhana has been reached (first stage of Samadhi), because it is only in the first Jhana that rapture (bliss) is experienced. The first object of the second tetrad (in the verse you quoted) is rapture, which is why they say that it is necessary to reach this stage before beginning the practice.
Personally, I wouldn't say that this strict condition needs to be applied, but it is good to develop a familiarity with simple Breathing Meditation, and to develop a certain degree of concentration, equanimity and inner silence before beginning this more advanced practice.
The practice involves the investigation of the four foundations of mindfulness. As I mentioned above, the breath is used as the object of meditation just as it is in simple Breathing Meditation. At the same time as the awareness is rested and focussed gently on the breath, the awareness is allowed to expand to take in other things as well.
A simple analogy is this:
Imagine that you are in a forest, and you are sitting watching a tree, with your gaze resting gently on the tree. Your mind is at peace and silent. At the same time as being aware of the tree, you also notice the bird song, the light coming through the leaves, the sound of the river flowing past etc.
In the same way, with the four foundations of mindfulness practice given in this Sutta, the attention rests gently on the breath as an object, whilst at the same time, awareness is allowed to expand to include other objects. The first foundation is the body, so bodily sensations are included. Secondly come feelings, which includes emotions. Thirdly is the nature of mind itself and lastly mental objects (thoughts, memories, fantasies etc.).
The Buddha is emphasising particular feelings as being notable of attention, particularly rapture and pleasure. If these are not especially noticeable when you begin the practice, they will certainly come in time. He emphasises the importance of being sensitive to all phenomena, which arise, and allowing them to become calm (samatha).
In the last of the four tetrads (13 through 16 in the translation quoted), the Buddha brings in an element of inquiry as to the nature of all phenomena. The things he recommends noticing are anicca (impermanence), viraga (fading away), nirodha (cessation) and patinissagga (relinquishment).
He then says:
"Bhikkhus, anapanasati which one has developed and made much of in just this way naturally bears enormous fruits and brings great benefits."
In the rest of the Sutta, the Buddha goes on to say that by developing Breathing Meditation in this way, one gradually becomes established in the seven factors of enlightenment.
The seven factors of enlightenment are:
Sati: Mindfulness
Dhamma vicaya: The ability to investigate truth
Viriya: Energy
Piti: Bliss
Passaddhi: Tranquility
Samadhi: A balanced state of concentration
Upekkha: Equanimity
quote:
On another note, I noticed these statements in the Pali:
quote:
I tell you, monks, that this — careful attention to in-&-out breaths — is classed as a feeling among feelings...
It's a feeling!
The breath is a feeling... you can feel it.
The Buddha once said that when he talked about spiritual things, his talks were just like dreams. But, he said, the dreams that he wove were very special dreams, because they were dreams with the power to awaken one who was asleep.
In the same way, I understand here the meaning of these words to be that although the breath is just a feeling in the body, it is a feeling among feelings, because it is a feeling, which possesses the power to awaken.
quote:
The other statement that really stuck out from the Pali is this:
quote:
AN 9.34 shows how the mind, step by step, is temporarily released from burdensome mental states of greater and greater refinement as it advances through the stages of jhana.
So, this whole Sutta seems to indicate to me that one uses the breath to grasp, and release the various forms (for lack of a better term) to climb the ladder of jhanas. The breath seems to be a very powerful tool. Simply focusing on "relinquishment" seems to be a short cut that somebody took?? And might it be dangerous just to focus on breathing without a specific goal or task in mind? I mean, if breathing is so powerful, shouldn't it be pointed at something?
The purpose of the practice outlined in this Sutta is to bring about the seven factors of enlightenment. So the breath is used as an object of meditation whilst becoming aware of various aspects of the body and the mind. Once the seven factors of enlightenment are well established, further practice leads to enlightenment itself, which is nibbhana, the blowing out of the flame. On the way to that, the jhana (absorption) states are experienced. But the absorption states are not in themselves nibbhana.
quote:
And might it be dangerous just to focus on breathing without a specific goal or task in mind? I mean, if breathing is so powerful, shouldn't it be pointed at something?
No, it’s not dangerous to focus simply on breathing as a meditation object. One question, which might arise, is: “Is it possible to develop the seven factors of enlightenment without using this advanced practice of the contemplation of the four foundations of mindfulness”?
To that I would say that it is certainly possible to develop mindfulness, energy, bliss, tranquillity, samadhi and equanimity through the practice of Breathing Meditation alone. The development of the ability to investigate truth (dhamma vicaya), is not a factor which is developed by Breathing Meditation alone, but is developed through the Foundations of Mindfulness practice described in this Sutta.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Oct 17 2009 7:19:28 PM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2009 : 12:16:02 AM
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Hi Christi :)
Thank you very much for that interpretation. You have a wonderful foundation of knowledge there.
That is a great explanation, and I'm kind of stunned by your analogy. I spent the morning in the forest sitting on my bench, staring at the forest in silence, feeling my inner being. I enjoy that tremendously because the center of my visual focal point becomes crystal clear and produces exquisite detail. I didn't even mind the gentle sprinkling of the rain. As I was sitting, all of a sudden the forest in front of me became alive. There appeared chickadees, a Blue Jay, two wood peckers, some small birds I've never seen before and a squirrel. It was enchanting. It was like they were all coming to visit me. So your analogy is describing exactly what happened to me this morning! Hmmm..
I did have a few questions, if you don't mind.
In Ajahn Brahm's book he says that after the breath dissolves you are left focusing just on the feeling of beauty and delight (from the beautiful breath). Once this happens, you no longer need to put in any energy or effort into focusing your awareness, because the mind fixes on that feeling all by itself and remains there effortlessly. Then you are in nimitta land... Is this the same effect that occurs with the simple breath meditation you've described?
Also:
How long should one spend on each of the 16 directives (if one is performing that practice)?
Where should the eyes point during the practice or any breathing practice? (Sambhavi or not?)
Where do you put your hands?
Thank you very much. I hope you are having a wonderful weekend.
:)
TI
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2009 : 6:58:08 PM
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Hi TI,
quote:
In Ajahn Brahm's book he says that after the breath dissolves you are left focusing just on the feeling of beauty and delight (from the beautiful breath). Once this happens, you no longer need to put in any energy or effort into focusing your awareness, because the mind fixes on that feeling all by itself and remains there effortlessly. Then you are in nimitta land... Is this the same effect that occurs with the simple breath meditation you've described?
With simple breath meditation, the mind can enter samadhi, and in some of the higher states of samadhi there is no longer any awareness of the physical realms (including the physical body and the breath). So this is one reason for developing advanced practices such as the four foundations of mindfulness practice described in the Anapanasati Sutta. As the Ajahn points out, even when there is no awareness of the physical realms, phenomena are still present such as feelings of joy and bliss, and inner visions or sounds can be experienced. With the four foundations of mindfulness practice, these phenomena can be contemplated as they arise. As I mentioned in a previous post, special attention is put on the endings of things… everything that arises is impermanent, everything that arises fades away, everything that arises ceases, everything that arises is ultimately relinquished.
When something ends, what remains?
So the practice is continually pointing you back to that which remains… that which doesn’t fade away, that which isn’t impermanent, that which never ceases, that which is never relinquished.
quote:
Also:
How long should one spend on each of the 16 directives (if one is performing that practice)?
Some teachers say that you should work your way through the 16 objects in sequence, much like we do with samyama practice in AYP. Personally I don't practice like that. I let whatever comes come, and let that (those) be the object(s) for contemplation. There are a few reasons for this. One reason is that sometimes a certain object may not be present. For example, if you are meditating on the breath and the mind is completely silent, then there simply may not be any mental fabrication. The second reason is that sometimes things come up which would fall under several categories. If you were meditating on the breath and you experience a pain in your knee, and you think "Oh no, not that knee playing up again", then you are experiencing a physical sensation (the actual nervous signals), a feeling (pain) and mental fabrication (thought) all at the same time. So when I practice the four foundations practice, I start with the breath, and as my mind becomes more concentrated and expanded, I contemplate phenomena as they arise.
quote:
Where do you put your hands?
I would recommend gently resting your hands on your lap, or on your knees.
quote:
Where should the eyes point during the practice or any breathing practice? (Sambhavi or not?)
With both the practices we have discussed so far (anapanasati and the foundations of mindfulness) there are no special instructions for placing the eyes. So adding sambhavi mudra would be adding another practice on. Mudras and bhandas can be added to any meditation practice. In AYP (as you probably know) there are certain guidelines for adding new spiritual practices to your routine, and for combining two practices at the same time. The general guidelines are, firstly to become well established in one practice before adding other practices. Then to add practices on gradually, one at a time, leaving enough time between each practice to see how each addition affects the overall practice routine.
With meditation practices it is also recommended not to combine the meditation with any practice that distracts from the meditation procedure, which sambhavi easily can because of its effect on kundalini with the resulting effects on the subtle neurobiology.
So, if you are already stable in mindfulness of breathing, and you have left a long enough period between the last practice you added to your routine to see that your system is still stable, and you want to add sambhavi to the practice, and it is not too distracting for you, then by all means do.
Sambhavi adds a new dimension to any meditation practice, especially once kundalini is awakened, and I highly recommend it.
Christi
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2009 : 12:02:43 AM
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Hi Christi :)
Thank you for that, once again. My understanding is being expanded :)
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
For example, if you are meditating on the breath and the mind is completely silent, then there simply may not be any mental fabrication.
Is it correct to say that when the mind is completely still, there is no breath? When the breathing stops, the mind stops and vice versa. Therefore your breathing meditation has stopped and you are changing to awareness practices such as watching nimittas or experiencing jhanas?
quote:
Sambhavi adds a new dimension to any meditation practice, especially once kundalini is awakened, and I highly recommend it.
You know, Christi, I just can't do sambhavi anymore. I did an experiment tonight. I sat in my current "sensing the inner body" meditation, eyes pointing downwards. Most of my body is a feeling of magnetic ecstatic bliss with the focal point being the perineum (most intense). My mind is almost stopped and I'm in a large space of almost black. The nimittas are flashing but not staying very long, however I'm enjoying it thoroughly and the time flies by.
After that meditation, I remained in the same posture and rolled my eyes up, performing sambhavi. Within two seconds, I'm looking at faces, then scenes and the whole movie picture world opens up. Someone please give me popcorn and a diet coke!
I believe that performing sambhavi is "becoming the doer", not the watcher. It is my understanding that to "let go", you might be able to sit in a posture and maybe put your hands on your legs (I put mine palms up on my thighs), but you cannot do anything willfully. The breath is the only thing that is part of our makeup that we can observe without willfully participating, which is another reason why it is used to become the watcher, not the doer. Once you perform sambhavi, aren't you are stirring up the winds (as the buddhists say)? Doesn't the same apply to kechari?
:)
TI |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Oct 19 2009 12:34:06 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2009 : 10:00:10 AM
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Hi TI,
quote:
Is it correct to say that when the mind is completely still, there is no breath? When the breathing stops, the mind stops and vice versa. Therefore your breathing meditation has stopped and you are changing to awareness practices such as watching nimittas or experiencing jhanas?
Sometimes the breath can suspend naturally whilst meditating. Sometimes it disappears because awareness of the physical realm is transcended. Either way, there is no longer any breath to focus on. But if you are practicing the four foundations of mindfulness practice, then there are still aspects of the practice present. Joy, bliss, ecstasy, rapture, inner lights and sounds. These can all be examined with respect to their nature, reflecting on impermanence, fading away, cessation and relinquishment. Even in the highest jhana state (the eighth jhana or fourth immaterial jhana), where there are no thoughts, no sounds, no lights, no bliss, and no movement within the mind at all, mind is still present. You are still aware, conscious.
Personally, when the breath is lost, either through suspension (khumbaka), or through the loss of awareness of the physical realm, I use this pure nature of the mind as the focus of meditation. Whatever state of samadhi you are in, it is always available.
quote:
You know, Christi, I just can't do sambhavi anymore. I did an experiment tonight. I sat in my current "sensing the inner body" meditation, eyes pointing downwards. Most of my body is a feeling of magnetic ecstatic bliss with the focal point being the perineum (most intense). My mind is almost stopped and I'm in a large space of almost black. The nimittas are flashing but not staying very long, however I'm enjoying it thoroughly and the time flies by.
After that meditation, I remained in the same posture and rolled my eyes up, performing sambhavi. Within two seconds, I'm looking at faces, then scenes and the whole movie picture world opens up. Someone please give me popcorn and a diet coke!
This is a good example of sambhavi proving to be too distracting to combine with meditation. As I said, it is a powerful practice. In AYP, Yogani recommends adding the mudras and bhandas to pranayama first, before meditation, and only adding them to meditation and samyama later, when they can be added without distraction. This is one good reason for separating out energy practices from meditation practices.
quote:
I believe that performing sambhavi is "becoming the doer", not the watcher. It is my understanding that to "let go", you might be able to sit in a posture and maybe put your hands on your legs (I put mine palms up on my thighs), but you cannot do anything willfully. The breath is the only thing that is part of our makeup that we can observe without willfully participating, which is another reason why it is used to become the watcher, not the doer. Once you perform sambhavi, aren't you are stirring up the winds (as the buddhists say)? Doesn't the same apply to kechari?
Yes, sambhavi is stirring up the winds and the same applies to kechari. Even simple Breathing Meditation will "stir up the winds", although not nearly as powerfully as sambhavi or kechari mudra. It is because of its gentle effect on the kundalini process that I started this thread about Breathing Meditation in the AYP forums. Some people have found that even AYP Deep Meditation can be too powerful for them, and can cause energy imbalances, especially after practicing for some time. People have found that Breathing Meditation can offer a good alternative in these cases to Deep Meditation, as it is gentler on the energy body.
Of course, all meditation is a "doing", even watching the breath. If you are repeatedly bringing your mind back to the breath whenever it wanders off, then you are doing something. But even as you engage in the practice, you will become aware of the silent witness. So this is how spiritual practice, which involves "doing something", can bring you to the place beyond action where you are observing everything as the silent witness. Everything arises, everything ceases, and the true nature of mind is always there, shining.... at peace... in bliss.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Oct 19 2009 10:03:44 AM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2009 : 10:27:40 AM
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Buddhism is so complicated.
Meditation on the breath isn't. |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2009 : 11:07:09 AM
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| Buddhism is utterly simple. Buddhists' minds are complicated. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2009 : 2:22:37 PM
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Hi Gumpi,
quote:
Buddhism is so complicated.
Meditation on the breath isn't.
So far in this thread we have discussed the very simple practice of Breathing Meditation, and the slightly more complex practice of the four foundations of mindfulness. It is good to remember that this latter practice is an advanced practice and is not for everyone. When practiced it is actually a lot more simple than it sounds.
As with all practices, there is a clunky stage when you first begin the practice, but you will quickly get passed that and begin to see both the beauty of the practice and the utter simplicity of the true nature of the mind.
All the best 
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Oct 19 2009 3:13:06 PM |
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arzkiyahai
93 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2009 : 11:59:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Several people have asked me how to do some of the simple Buddhist practices that I have mentioned in the forum. To save time (and because there are possibly more people interested) I thought I would post them here in separate threads. The first practice is breathing meditation:
Instructions for breathing meditation (Anapanasati)
Sit down with your eyes closed in a comfortable position. Let your breathing come in and out as is natural. There is no need to slow the breath down or speed it up, or to breathe deeper than you would normally. Bring the attention to the breath simply flowing into the body, and flowing out again. You can be aware of the breath either at the nostrils, or deeper down in the body as it fills the lungs, or you can simply be aware of the whole process of breathing. People tend to find their own natural preference. If the mind wanders away from the breath then gently notice that the mind has wandered and bring it back to the breath. Each time it wanders, bring it gently back again. Sometimes there will be a natural pause between the in breath and the out breath, or between the out breath and the in breath. When this happens, simply be aware that the breath is suspended either inside the body, or outside it.
With repeated practice you will find that the mind wanders less, and the natural, spacious quality of the mind becomes more apparent.
It is really one of the simplest and most beautiful spiritual practices there is. If I have left anything out, please let me know.
Enjoy.
Christi
Hi Christi,
This technique has been mentioned by Indian Saints too as a meditation/concentration technique.
What are your personal experiences with this technique? Is it keeping you grounded?
And what do you mean by spacious quality of mind?
kind regards |
Edited by - arzkiyahai on Nov 03 2009 02:31:57 AM |
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Breathing meditation, a simple Buddhist practice
