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Ananda
3115 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 08:00:21 AM
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this is good stuff, actually it's very good stuff .
a direct approach to self inquiry presented in a clear face to face practice; it should be practiced outside the Advanced Yoga Practices:
How I Discovered the Awareness Watching Awareness Method
by Michael Langford
http://www.searchwithin.org/downloa...wareness.pdf
peace
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Edited by - Ananda on Sep 05 2009 1:01:21 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 11:09:40 AM
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Hi Ananda....
I think it was either Machart or Markern (or maybe it was Scott) who first showed me the "AWA" method. I find it quite powerful...don't know if you have seen this yet: www.albigen.com/uarelove/awa...ructions.aspx but these are all different ways of practicing "Awareness Watching Awareness"....hope you enjoy
Love,
Carson
P.S. I used to be able to see the linked site above, but my work has upgraded the smartfilter recently so I can't anymore....(I'm lucky I can still get AYP!) There is a slight potential that I am not linking to what I think I am linking to, so if the website that comes up doesn't seem appropriate, just say so, and I will try to find the proper link again. |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 03 2009 12:16:14 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 11:54:31 AM
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| the link works, thks Carson. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 12:04:34 PM
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hello again Carson, i felt that the topic is familiar somehow so i did a search on the title Awareness watching awareness and there were no results and after reading your post still no results it seems that it's co mingled inside a certain topic.
namaste brother |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 12:14:27 PM
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Here is one thread where this was discussed a little: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#49537 but I am not finding the other threads I thought this was talked about in....perhaps it was introduced to me on another forum....Sorry for the confusion.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 1:32:47 PM
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Hi Ananda and Carson
Thanks for contributing
Just a few comments regarding awareness watching awareness....
All of my comments you guys already know....but I am writing anyway...just in case there are some other readers out there hearing this topic
The quotes are from "How I Discovered the Awareness Watching Awareness Method"
by Michael Langford
quote:
I read the book “The Path of Sri Ramana, Part 1” by Sri Sadhu Om cover to cover. It is amazing that I searched this book first, because the premise of the whole book was the answer I was looking for. Throughout the book, Sri Sadhu Om focuses on Self-attention, instead of Self-inquiry. He points this out hundreds of times throughout the book, and this is the main point being made throughout the book. Self-inquiry is really just a way of inducing Self-attention, and only Self-attention is the true practice.
Awareness wacthing awareness is the witness watching itself. It is Consciousness (capital C) watching Consciousness. And yes - this is why Self-inquiry as a stand alone practice does not work very well ...or takes a very long time to produce results ...........if one is not "ripe"...that is, if one's consciousness (small c) has not expanded into the witness (Consciousness). Like he says....self-inquiry is ment to induce Self-attention. But the Self is just emptiness.....and just as the authour struggled to find out what the "feeling of I am" is......just so.... someone that is not able to taste the Self (the emptiness) will not be able to see it...from itself. Since attention then is only synonymous with mind. He will not watch from awareness. He will watch from consciousness (small c) instead. And this is identical with mind....consciousness cannot watch Consciousness.
And that is why we meditate. Because AYP Deep Meditation is a way of training the mind beyoond itself so that the consciousness can expand into Consciousness. And then.....Self-inquiry will be very fruitful....because then you experience the presence. But most people do not experience their own presence. They experience mind instead. Mind takes up the whole place of the space. Either as thought, image, sensation or emotion.
Even when the witness is reached....for a long time it will be Consciousness watching consciousnes (awareness watching mind). And then gradually (or suddenly...depending on how ripe one is) the space will be vast enough so that one finally watches only Oneself and disregard the rest: Consciousness watching Consciouness (Awareness watching Awareness).
quote:
By the year 2001, I had been studying the Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi for 27 years, from age 15 to age 42. I had read around 2,000 spiritual books from the various paths, etc. and I had seen many teachers.
So the authour had 27 years of practice when this revelation came to him. He was in other words very ripe. That is why it was so simple for him. He already had established himself as the witness. He just had not used this to it's full potential.
One can wonder.....if he had introduced daily Deep Meditation years back......how much sooner this tool could have been available to him...
That is why Deep Meditation is such a blessing. Anyone will benefit from day 1. Whether one is conscious of it or not. It is for everybody....ripe and not so ripe.
quote:
This practice of meditation upon consciousness itself is the true way.’
Meditation upon conciousness itself is rather the result in this context. And we practice Deep meditation in order to be able to live as awareness aware of itself. Even after one is Aware of Oneself...the practice of Deep Meditation will always be fruitfull. Because...there is no end to transcendence.....we expand and expand....and the effective tool of Deep Meditation will always take us beyond ourselves....whether the self is small or big....there is always expansion....
quote:
This was like a revelation to me! Instead of having some vague practice where I am told to pay attention to a feeling I AM, without ever being sure what exactly ‘I AM’ means and feels like, here I had an absolutely clear instruction:
My present awareness watching my present awareness. Awareness watching awareness.
Yes. He struggled for years....because the practice of Self-inquiry needs a stable experiencal knowledge of at least a taste of awareness of oneself as presence to be fully effective.
Once the witness is established.....then self-inquiry is speeding one towards Unity.....awareness of Self....bliss etc.
And then.....then this must be embodied....must be lived.....in our ordinary life....so that love can blossom out of our self.....self..... Self....Self....SELF..... and into "the world" for all to be lovingly touched and transformed by.
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 1:53:44 PM
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This is fundamentally the essence of meditation. But for us ordinary folk, we need boosts. Some it is pranayama and visualization. Everyone should do Guru Yoga/Deity Yoga/Bhakti. These boosts help one to leap over the ginormous waves of obscurations crashing down around our psyches on a momentary basis.
What is nice about the Awareness of Awareness is that it does away with the thinking oriented aspect of the "I am" inquiry and removes the conflict of interest involving the "I AM" mantra. One can continue to do "I AM" as mantra, and that becomes the tether to view awareness as awareness.
Also this sort of discovery helps to remind us that the path is utterly devoid of formality or elaboration. It is the essence of simple. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 1:55:22 PM
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quote:
self.....self..... Self....Self....SELF.....
ahhhhhhhh......
thanks and welcome again K.
much love from here.. |
Edited by - miguel on Sep 03 2009 1:58:35 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 1:58:54 PM
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that's beautiful Katrina, thank you.
believe it or not i was wondering today what if i practiced the AWA method before i came to ayp...
the answer which came is that it would be the same as what happened with the other inquiry stuff... it was just mind stuff and nothing experiential... nothing close to what it is now...
i think that all self-inquiry practices are similar to samyama... the who am i? is letting go into stillness and experiencing the usual blissful waves and kundalini breathing kriyas... (stillness in action) and AWA has the same effects and is similar to the samyam method which Shanti shared with us in the forums (http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3489)
honestly put it's a great practice among the being in the present ones and i am experiencing direct results with it and the AWA melts in awareness there is then only one awareness and after that bliss and emptiness which seem to be the only ever lasting ones among all the experiences.
namaste
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 2:01:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Here is one thread where this was discussed a little: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#49537 but I am not finding the other threads I thought this was talked about in....perhaps it was introduced to me on another forum....Sorry for the confusion.
Love,
Carson
i always read your topics brother Carson and i wanted to read that one in precise but when time came smthg always happened and guess what i can't read it right now as well i have to go out someone is waiting for me .
but will definitely read it when i get back home.
namaste brother |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 2:11:25 PM
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Beautiful Ösel
quote:
This is fundamentally the essence of meditation. But for us ordinary folk, we need boosts. Some it is pranayama and visualization. Everyone should do Guru Yoga/Deity Yoga/Bhakti. These boosts help one to leap over the ginormous waves of obscurations crashing down around our psyches on a momentary basis.
What is nice about the Awareness of Awareness is that it does away with the thinking oriented aspect of the "I am" inquiry and removes the conflict of interest involving the "I AM" mantra. One can continue to do "I AM" as mantra, and that becomes the tether to view awareness as awareness.
Also this sort of discovery helps to remind us that the path is utterly devoid of formality or elaboration. It is the essence of simple.
Thank you for your clarity and love!
Beautiful Miguel
Thank you for your Love from here to here
Beautiful Ananda
Thank you for sharing of Yourself. Yes.....everything....is about letting go......
I too love this practice.....
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 2:30:42 PM
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Katrine,
Beautiful post, much Love and thank you |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 2:35:48 PM
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| Namaste Yonatan |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 6:11:20 PM
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Hi Carson,
quote:
Here is one thread where this was discussed a little: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#49537 but I am not finding the other threads I thought this was talked about in....perhaps it was introduced to me on another forum....Sorry for the confusion.
Love,
Carson
Here is a thread from back in 2007 where the Awareness Watching Awareness method was discussed. Is it the same method?
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#21151
In that thread I discussed with Scott some of the dangers of using direct self-inquiry methods and "high end" meditation practices if they are engaged in too early on.
Christi |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2009 : 7:02:09 PM
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I wasn't "ripe", and with the correct understanding, I was able to use the AWA method and experience good results. It's an awesome form of meditation, especially for balancing kundalini syndrome, that anyone can do, which can be a stand alone practice, and done for long periods of time without self pacing.
I stand by this, having experienced it first hand. I strongly disagree with anyone who says otherwise. They are biased by what they've practiced, and inexperienced in this particular practice. No offense meant in saying that...it's simply true.
In the AYP system, deep meditation comes first. The AWA system doesn't follow the AYP system. The technique isn't self enquiry, and doesn't require someone to have any attainment in order to begin.
Peace. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 04:37:30 AM
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hi Scott, i am interested in hearing what are the good results you've experienced from it (other than spiritual experiences that is) i mean the abiding ones bcz i am really tired of experiences no matter how grand they are i simply don't care anymore... i want something which is abiding.
i second the fact that AWA works via kundalini and it induces crown work but in a stabilized way to my wonderment and there's another similar practice with similar effects named the headless way by Douglas Harding which is in a way awareness watching awareness.
now i am new to this practice, but it seems like other self enquiry work except in this one you are not tracing anything back or letting go of anything into Self you are just abiding as Self directly and as Sri Ramana and the other Advaita teachers put it vigilance is needed in self inquiry and in this practice in precise it's very much needed and you can do this practice with eyes open during daily activity...
as i've said earlier all this stuff seems like different forms of samyama so it needs more testing in my case to see if i am going to experience any overloading symptoms.
i've only been into this awareness watching awareness stuff only for just a few days.
and i believe that the path of integrated practices is a much faster one than the path of stand alone practice.
light and love,
Ananda
p.s: i practiced cosmic samyama a few months back and it seems that there are some similarities between the AWA and the CS concerning the stabilizing effect on the crown. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 04:38:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Carson,
quote:
Here is one thread where this was discussed a little: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#49537 but I am not finding the other threads I thought this was talked about in....perhaps it was introduced to me on another forum....Sorry for the confusion.
Love,
Carson
Here is a thread from back in 2007 where the Awareness Watching Awareness method was discussed. Is it the same method?
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#21151
In that thread I discussed with Scott some of the dangers of using direct self-inquiry methods and "high end" meditation practices if they are engaged in too early on.
Christi
much thanks Christy.
namaste |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 05:31:17 AM
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again thank you Christy that's a great topic, but it's too bad that you haven't already shared the mindfulness of mindfulness practice in a separate topic before.
but i guess everything comes just at the right timing; that is when one is ready of course.
i sincerely hope that people who are new to yoga would undertake deep meditation first; after AYP it's a zillion times more direct and fun than before AYP.
newcomers: plz read Katrine's post.
Love,
Ananda |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 06:09:59 AM
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Hi Scott,
quote:
I wasn't "ripe", and with the correct understanding, I was able to use the AWA method and experience good results. It's an awesome form of meditation, especially for balancing kundalini syndrome, that anyone can do, which can be a stand alone practice, and done for long periods of time without self pacing.
I stand by this, having experienced it first hand. I strongly disagree with anyone who says otherwise. They are biased by what they've practiced, and inexperienced in this particular practice. No offense meant in saying that...it's simply true.
In the AYP system, deep meditation comes first. The AWA system doesn't follow the AYP system. The technique isn't self enquiry, and doesn't require someone to have any attainment in order to begin.
Peace.
If I remember rightly, you practiced AYP before practicing the Awareness of Awareness method. I remember also that you experienced some pretty major energetic openings through your AYP practice, which you had to self-pace heavily on. You reported all of that here in the forums. Once a lot of the major energetic symptoms are out of the way, one becomes ripe. That is the time when practices such as Awareness of awareness can be taken on safely without spilling over into energetic problems.
When we had that conversation two years ago, I had no doubts that you were ripe, and were ready to begin practices such as this, and said so.
Glad to hear you have been having such good results with the practice since, and am looking forward to hearing all about it.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Sep 04 2009 06:10:54 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 06:55:01 AM
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Hi Ananda,
quote:
again thank you Christy that's a great topic, but it's too bad that you haven't already shared the mindfulness of mindfulness practice in a separate topic before.
but i guess everything comes just at the right timing; that is when one is ready of course.
To be honest, I didn't see any need to share it at that time, or even now, as this is an AYP support forum, and many here are practicing Deep meditation already. When you practice deep meditation (as you know), at a certain point, thought begins to still and you enter the thoughtless state. The mind becomes introverted (pratyahara) and enters Samadhi. At this point the only object of awareness is awareness itself. There is no need to recite the mantra internally any longer because when the mind is stilled and awareness is balanced in it's own nature there is no though such as "I am off the mantra".
So AYP deep meditation, when practiced correctly, leads to Awareness of Awareness (mindfulness of mindfulness) automatically. When this occurs through the natural stilling of the mind in deep meditation, then you know that you are ripe for it, by the time you come to it.
Of course, it is easy to forget the steps one takes, which lead to the point of ripeness. People who forget their own first steps, sometimes teach advanced practices as stand alone practices for beginners and everyone else with the casualty list getting longer and longer. This happens a lot these days in Buddhist circles, as well as Yoga circles and in the New Age tradition. I didn't, and still don't want to add my name to the list of "guilty as charged".
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Sep 04 2009 07:01:45 AM |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 10:24:52 AM
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Scott, Quick question. With awareness watching awareness are objects of perception "in" awareness or "same as" awareness?
Christi, Can you really say awareness is an object? This is not just a nit-picky point, IMO. But fundamental.
I mention this because why most people start with mantra is because of thoughts and distractions. Thoughts are attachments. Distractions are fixations/identifications.
When we get to awareness as awareness there is this final, subtle tether... awareness. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Sep 04 2009 10:42:51 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 11:50:06 AM
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had another session of AWA today but mine are less than 2 hours; honestly put it was amazing and i agree with Scott this practice is really gooddd and seems to cover a lot of stuff and strengthens pratyahara in precise.
light and love,
Ananda |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 12:04:30 PM
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Christi,
quote:
If I remember rightly, you practiced AYP before practicing the Awareness of Awareness method. I remember also that you experienced some pretty major energetic openings through your AYP practice, which you had to self-pace heavily on. You reported all of that here in the forums. Once a lot of the major energetic symptoms are out of the way, one becomes ripe. That is the time when practices such as Awareness of awareness can be taken on safely without spilling over into energetic problems.
Yes, I practiced AYP for about a year and a half, and it wasn't for me. At one point, I wasn't able to sit cross legged for a minute, because I'd become ungrounded. I took a break for a while, then took up AWA for over a year, and it was more of a path for me. Balanced things out energetically...but at the same time it seemed to bypass energetic problems (think of it being more like an inner silence method and not at all an ecstatic method) so there was no actual healing. I stopped after a while, because I didn't have the time to be meditating for many hours each day. Now I've been practicing something else for a year and a half, and am finally actually healing these problems in a way that fits me. In my book, I'm still not ripe. In my opinion, ripe would mean that you go see a guru, and with one glance, you're enlightened...or something close to that. Contrary to that, I'm very aware that I have quite a bit to heal.
I disagree that someone has to be at a certain level before practicing this.
Konchok Osel Dorje,
quote:
Scott, Quick question. With awareness watching awareness are objects of perception "in" awareness or "same as" awareness?
The two are inseparable...but that's not really relevant to the actual practice of this. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 12:09:28 PM
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quote:
hi Scott, i am interested in hearing what are the good results you've experienced from it (other than spiritual experiences that is) i mean the abiding ones bcz i am really tired of experiences no matter how grand they are i simply don't care anymore... i want something which is abiding.
You're already abiding. Anything else added won't last.
I don't say that as a cliche neo-advaita statement, or something that will help with this practice. It's just that the spiritual path is not something the ego can take advantage of, and get something from. |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 12:47:11 PM
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Linking this to the enquiry on another thread by truthseeker about his kundalini difficulties, I would say that AWA is, like all effective forms of jnana yoga, uniquely direct and powerful. It is particularly so, because it cuts through the common blockages of getting stuck in subtle materialist conceptions of self or of what is 'not-this, not-this'.
I echo Christi's reserve. AWA is a practice to be used with caution by all but those who naturally find themselves spending much time focused on and in awareness. I'd say a good rule of thumb is that it's fine if someone has come across this practice spontaneously as a result of their own inner work, as a committed jnani will. I find myself nervous about someone promoting it to others who have not discovered it for themselves.
'Who am I?' is more self-limiting, in that the effect will depend on your level of realisation/subtlety. AWA is like putting the jump leads together.
I articulated to myself 'awareness focused on awareness' as what I was doing at some point in jnana yoga, quite spontanously. I never taught this practice to others, but always started with more traditional jnana practices. I figured that, when they were ready, they would find themselves in this too. And so it has proved.
Perhaps I am too cautious, but I don't think so, at least in the path of jnana yoga alone. Perhaps it is different if you have a sound basis in the AYP practices at the same time.
chinna
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2009 : 1:03:42 PM
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Hi Osel,
quote:
Christi, Can you really say awareness is an object? This is not just a nit-picky point, IMO. But fundamental.
Yes... it becomes the point where object and subject merge into one. Language fails us (once again!). This is the transition from being merged with the witness, to the direct experience of Oneness... also called, abiding in the non-dual state. What is it like? Paradise on Earth... even as the Earth is dissolving all around us.
Christi |
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The Awareness Watching Awareness Method
