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Panthau

Austria
149 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2010 :  01:52:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit Panthau's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks good :-)
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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2010 :  08:38:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Just added individual flags for the various languages shown on the new translations page.

The guru is in you.




Hi All:

There could be some complaints about using the Arab League flag for Arabic and the Spanish flag for Spanish, since both languages are used elsewhere. The idea was to designate each language with a small graphic that would be easily recognizable by those who would not recognize their language spelled in English. Using the flag for the source country/region seemed reasonable, and unmistakable.

An alternative would be to spell the language out in its corresponding script, like is done in the Google Translator, which would be more difficult.

Hopefully what has been done is reasonable and will not offend anyone. There is much else to be working on here.

The guru is in you.

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miguel

Spain
1197 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2010 :  10:26:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
There could be some complaints about using the Arab League flag for Arabic and the Spanish flag for Spanish, since both languages are used elsewhere. The idea was to designate each language with a small graphic that would be easily recognizable by those who would not recognize their language spelled in English. Using the flag for the source country/region seemed reasonable, and unmistakable.

An alternative would be to spell the language out in its corresponding script, like is done in the Google Translator, which would be more difficult.

Hopefully what has been done is reasonable and will not offend anyone. There is much else to be working on here.



mmmm...yes,thats is an important thing yogani. Each "spanish language" country has its own flag and identity and i suposse they dont like to be represented with the spanish flag....theres lot of historic conflict on this

On the other hand the spanish flag is the more easy to recognize flag for our language (sadly due to not very enlightened past circunstances/events/actions),so i think its the best option from my point of view...

namasté.

Edited by - miguel on Jul 14 2010 10:32:30 AM
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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2010 :  10:54:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Miguel:

Well, the Spanish flag is the accepted icon for Spanish in translator devices and services, as is the Arab League flag for Arabic. Both are also found in the multi-flag icon added on the top-left of the website and forum pages, which is a standard layout used for language translators. In this case, the flag icons are not country designations. They are easy-to-recognize language designations. No politics in that.

The guru is in you.

PS: Brazil could complain about the Portuguese flag, and the USA could complain about the UK flag (if we used it). It could go on and on. From a practical standpoint, the places where the languages originated are the most logical icons to use -- easily recognized.

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miguel

Spain
1197 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2010 :  10:57:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes yogani.And in conclusion...the spainsh language comes from spain,so its logic to use the spanish flag as an easy reference...

namasté.
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Ananda

3097 Posts

Posted - Jul 15 2010 :  5:41:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ananda's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani, and yes the Arab league flag is best in this situation.

namaste
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Panthau

Austria
149 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2010 :  10:59:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit Panthau's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

Has lesson 63 been written before 62 or is there a mistake?

Lesson 62:
"Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:17pm"

Lesson 63:
"Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:49pm"

Thanks!
Pan
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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2010 :  11:12:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Panthau


Has lesson 63 been written before 62 or is there a mistake?

Lesson 62:
"Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:17pm"

Lesson 63:
"Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:49pm"

Thanks!
Pan


Hi Pan:

They were written in the order shown. The time stamps were copied from Yahoo Groups, and there must have been a discrepancy. Lessons 62 and 63 are shown as 1:23 pm and 1:24 pm on Yahoo now, both on Dec 31, 2003.

We have not used time stamps on website lessons for some time, and you are not required to use them. The date is good enough.

Many thanks for your translating work!

The guru is in you.

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Panthau

Austria
149 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2010 :  4:06:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit Panthau's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:

Hi Pan:

They were written in the order shown. The time stamps were copied from Yahoo Groups, and there must have been a discrepancy. Lessons 62 and 63 are shown as 1:23 pm and 1:24 pm on Yahoo now, both on Dec 31, 2003.

We have not used time stamps on website lessons for some time, and you are not required to use them. The date is good enough.

Many thanks for your translating work!

The guru is in you.




Alright thanks.

Im the one who has to say thank you, and take a low bow.

Thanks again,
Pan
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kashiraja

Germany
19 Posts

Posted - Aug 04 2010 :  09:12:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit kashiraja's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani,

a technical question.

Did you organize your website in a way that you had only to change one or two pages or files in order to integrate the flag icons or had you to go through all pages and change them.

If the first case, how did you do that?

Best regards and thanks.
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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Aug 04 2010 :  10:11:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by kashiraja

Hi Yogani,

a technical question.

Did you organize your website in a way that you had only to change one or two pages or files in order to integrate the flag icons or had you to go through all pages and change them.

If the first case, how did you do that?

Best regards and thanks.


Hi kashiraja:

The AYP website is managed with MS Frontpage, with optional top, bottom, left and right borders. The borders can be applied to all pages with one action. So a change or addition in a border is reflected on all pages that are turned on for borders. Other website software packages have similar (and more advanced) capabilities. It is very common for menu maintenance and other site-wide display information. Frontpage is a bit out-of-date, but it works for us.

In the early days, we did not have border capability, and it made website maintenance much more labor-intensive, with severe limitations on what additional information (and menu modifications) we could display on the hundreds of pages on the website. Thank goodness we got beyond that, because now we have twice as many pages.

The guru is in you.

PS: The AYP Support Forums software has border capability also (not part of MS Frontpage), and that is how the same border information and features (like the Google Translator on bottom of page) are shown on the thousands of pages in the forums.

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Panthau

Austria
149 Posts

Posted - Aug 04 2010 :  11:31:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Panthau's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi kashiraja,

Im using Dreamweaver to create my pages. To be able to edit something specific on several pages, i load them all into DW,
copy the specific source code and with "search & replace" i can directly modify the source code on every of the pages. Hope that helps.

Gotta go on with your lessons, if you want to catch up with me :P

Atb,
Pan
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kashiraja

Germany
19 Posts

Posted - Aug 12 2010 :  7:18:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit kashiraja's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
@Yogani and Panthau
thanks for the information.

Now I used good old Frontpage 2002 and created the Web-Site for my German Translation. (I didn't think the 500€ for Dreamweaver was worth it)

The link is www.fyü.de. This three letter domain was still available, so I reserved it. But I am only redirecting from there to an other domain. The umlaut character "ü" might pose some problems for foreign keybords (and with linking on forums like this one) but for german keybords thats quite convenient. (Alternatively but I don't know for how long you get to that web-site via the domain www.parsiwal.de.)

The message board, that I used till now for postsing the lessons will become the German support-forum for that web-site and the link can be removed from the language list.

Yogani, how did you integrate your message board into your web-site?

Do you think I could do that with my board too?

Thanks




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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Aug 12 2010 :  10:46:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi kashiraja:

Nice start with Frontpage.

Which link do you want to use for your German translation?

Yes, the "ü" might create some difficulties. It already has in your post above, where the forum cannot automatically create the link. Perhaps it can be manually inserted. Not sure about displaying it with a working link on the AYP website. Will have to see.

Regarding getting the forums together with the lessons, we have the English AYP lessons and support forums hosted together on the same server under the same domain -- www.aypsite.org . This was possible because the forum software we are using can be installed under any domain on a server with suitable database capability. You may or may not have that flexibility with your forum software. There is an advantage having both the AYP lessons and forums under the same domain name, and kept public. It greatly increases search engine exposure for both. This has made AYP easy to find (on purpose or accidentally) on the web.

The guru is in you.

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Panthau

Austria
149 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2010 :  01:44:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit Panthau's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Great aproach kashiraja, keep up the good work!

Lets use the "rivalry" energy to speed up our translations :-)

Edit: I´ve linked to your website, so others can also benefit from your translation, and enjoy all the hours of effort and translation work you´ve done so far!

Edited by - Panthau on Aug 13 2010 03:41:26 AM
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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2010 :  11:04:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi kashiraja:

I was able to install the www.fyü.de link both in the first post of this topic and on the translations page of the main website. The link is made active (including in this post) with manual coding of the URL.

FYI, the link is hijacking the browser address window (in Firefox) with itself for all pages opened from your website. This may have to do with the forwarding function.

Many thanks to both you and Panthau for all your efforts in German translation.

Onward!

The guru is in you.

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Buffle37

Switzerland
68 Posts

Posted - Aug 16 2010 :  1:02:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Buffle37's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi all,
I am happy to annonce that to day the new site for the french translations is on the web at:

http://www.aypsite.ch/

with 60 main lessons and 2 tantra lessons
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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Aug 16 2010 :  3:25:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Buffle37

Hi all,
I am happy to annonce that to day the new site for the french translations is on the web at:

http://www.aypsite.ch/

with 60 main lessons and 2 tantra lessons


Bravo!

The translation lists have been updated.

The guru is in you.

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kashiraja

Germany
19 Posts

Posted - Aug 18 2010 :  5:59:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit kashiraja's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi yogani,

I have now two domains fyü.de and fyue.de, the latter with webspace, where the lessons now are hosted. Every page of this site now has its own address.

I even have installed a forum under that same domain. That however isn't so easy to maintain as the other one and I haven't found the clue, how to put links back to the main site from that forum and how to integrate it into my site as you did. Do you have the same borders at your forum as with the other pages of your site.

Maybe I have to install an other forum software than that which came with the webspace.

Hi Panthau,

yes I have taken the flag egg from your site and hope it isn't copyrighted. I think it looks far better than the rectangular flag table and would like to keep it. Is that o.k?

I have noticed that you have a forum too. While I think it poses no problem for the reader if she or he can chose from two or more translations, if we have as much forums that will be the death to each of them and won't help anyone seeking advice. Some feedback in regard to the own site is desireable of course. But if it comes to the discussion of the lesson substantials, we should try to concentrate the discussion on one forum.
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Panthau

Austria
149 Posts

Posted - Aug 19 2010 :  01:54:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Panthau's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I hope too that it isnt copyrighted, as i have it from google and just modified it a bit :)

I would even rather put our translations together. In the beginning your speed in lesson translation
was rather slow (in my opinion, of course), and you only maintained a forum. Now you´re spending much more time with your translations
and made even a good looking website (even if you just copied the original style, still looking good), so i think we could just work on one site together.
Or even share our translation. I could make the odd and you the even numbers, or so :)
Of course, there´s still a difference in our translation style, but in the end its only important that the reader gets the content. Isnt it?

Of course its also fun to fight for the better website, and i can get quite obsessive with that. But its also somehow destructive and not
very yoga like, as i wrote you in my pm :)

Hope to hear from you!
Pan
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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Aug 19 2010 :  12:23:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kashiraja and Pan:

Kashiraja, I see the individual URLs are now coming up when going from fyü.de, and these are on fyue.de. Do you want to leave the translation link as fyü.de, or change it to fyue.de? It seems to be working okay now. If it isn't broken, maybe we don't have to fix it.

Regarding the forum, nothing wrong with leaving it where it is and linking back and forth between the lessons and forum. This too has advantages -- not all the eggs in one domain/server basket. To get it under the AYP lessons domain would require either resident software on your hosting service (which could not be moved), or an installable (and movable) software. The one being used here (Snitz) is installed in a folder ("forum") on the aypsite.org server and can be moved if needed. Yes, the Snitz software has a border feature similar to MS Frontpage, so the borders look the same, even though they are coming from two different sources. You may or may not be able to do something similar on resident forum software, or on a separate forum/blog site like you have.

While I prefer that you and Pan work it out on how to proceed with lessons and forum(s), I do agree with Pan that one German AYP forum community would be better than two. Building an online community is a long and tedious process, and is best undertaken as a group effort in one place. Not so with lesson translations, which can be put up on the web by anyone who is translating. Translation collaborations are fine, but not essential. I'd say a collaboration to build an online forum community is essential. There have been many involved in building the AYP community here, and I am very grateful to everyone who has pitched in.

My interest is in seeing the AYP lessons out there, and however that gets done is fine here. The reason we got into multiple translations in the same languages is because it is a big effort and there is a fatigue factor that sometimes comes, and any translation effort may stop at some point. This is perfectly understandable. New translators who come along can rarely gain access to existing translation websites to continue them, so we came up with the "copy and continue" scheme, which has worked pretty well. It is sort of like a relay race -- one person carries the baton, and then another person carries it. It was not originally intended to be a competition between two active translations, but if the two of you are enjoying it, that's fine too. Whatever works.

It is up to the two of you to work it out, or continue separately -- your choice. Btw, someone in Berlin emailed me recently, asking if they could assist in German translation of the lessons. I suggested he contact either or both of you and offer services. Or if that did not work, he could continue the relay with yet another German translation! We don't want to hold anyone back who wants to translate. Don't know if you will hear from this person, but thought to mention it. It is wonderful that interest for AYP in Germany is on the rise.

Pan, I was looking at your site to see where you are in translating the lessons. With all the lesson titles translated in the directory, it was difficult to see how far the actual translated lessons go. Most lesson titles in the directory give a "nothing here" message when clicked on. Maybe I missed something, not being a German reader. How does one find out how far the translated lessons go without having to click on a bunch of the titles?

Many thanks to both of you, and onward with German AYP!

The guru is in you.

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Panthau

Austria
149 Posts

Posted - Aug 19 2010 :  12:42:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Panthau's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Yogani,

I recently put up a "Aktuellste Übersetzung: Lektion 78" on top of the page, which means "Most recent translation: Lesson 78". I had this all the time on my mind somehow, but got it done when i was inspired by Kashirajas solution :)

Im still highly motivated to go on with my translations, my fatigue factor will come for sure... still waiting :)

Im happy if im able to do something positive for humanity, even if it is such a small portion :)



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Panthau

Austria
149 Posts

Posted - Aug 21 2010 :  12:48:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Panthau's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
One day we´ll wake up, looking at the stage we´re standing and the game we´re playing. I can really feel how
much we will have to laugh. Until then, lets just keep clearing the garbage that lies between the love that connects us.

Atb,
Pan
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kashiraja

Germany
19 Posts

Posted - Aug 23 2010 :  5:16:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit kashiraja's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani,

thanks for your advices.
I think the link is okay.
Another question: How do I get the AYP-Icon into the tabs of the brousers.

Hi Panthau,

sometimes I have more time for the translations sometimes less.

Generally I think now as the the main lessons for meditation and pranayama are posted there is no need for hurry in our translations. It is more important to present a quality product comparable with a commercial translation so the reader hasn't to bother with impurities that get in through our translation.

To assure high quality in my translations I got to a routine of at least five times going through each lesson.

1. I read the lessons for myself generally one lesson or page -whatever is less - a day using the book. This way I reached beyond lesson 200 already
2. I make a first draft translation of the lessons running several lessons or weeks in front of the lessons I am currently posting.
3. After letting rest the lessons for several weeks I carefully go through my first translation, comparing sentence for sentence with the original.
4. After completing a lesson this way I leave it at least for one night and reread it checking for understandability and orthographical mistakes. Ofttimes in the desire to be exact in the translation I get into English syntax and that makes it more difficult for a German reader to understand. So where I deem necessary I try to find ways of expressing the same thing in a literary good German way.
5. After having posted a lessons I again wait several weeks before rereading it once more checking for mistakes and understandability.

This procedure takes time and I won't force it, for I only like to work on my translations when I feel good about it and enjoy.

This way there will be no problem maybe after a last step of getting an other person to check for understandability and mistakes to publish what has been posted before.

Besides I am already working on the translation of the AYP deep meditation booklet.

I had come till lesson 71 with my draft translations when my posts had reached only lesson 51. Then I saw that you would soon be ahead of me and I thought maybe I could use your translations as my draft translations, so I translated no more new lessons as draft. That of course sped up my postings. Having now used one of your lessons and remodeling it into my style I think that might help to save me some time but not too much. Because I find many passages that I want to have changed, sometimes considerably. There is hardly a sentence that goes unalterd. As you said our styles are rather different. What is more in your Austrian German you use some words, that we in Germany don't use and you are using many foreign words where I try to find German expressions whenever possible. So you won't notice where I rely on your translation as draft or on my on.

Now I am indeed asking myself whether it would be better for me to return to my old system which has the advantage that I learn more doing everything myself and doing the most important work, the first translation. I don't have to change a lot, when the first translation is my own, but sometimes I even forget a whole sentence.
May be I will go back to my 5 step translation and just look to your version if at difficult passages I want to know how you did your job. Sometimes you have really good ideas and I follow your version or take up one of your expressions. But our overall products are very different.

My schedule is to translate about 100 lessons a year and one of the booklets, the rest of the booklets in the year after publishing everything in the same way as Yogani did including the two books with the lessons. But there is no need for hurry. The demand for this instruction in German is not yet so great as it is in the English speaking community. And since I want to publish everything I am after quality (as I understand it) from the beginning.

So from that it is clear that I want to do my own translation of everything. If you like you can use things from my site for example the graphics of yoga asanas (lesson 71) which I edited, use my translation as your draft or even post my unaltered translations but then only with a notice of origin and link back to my page.

Concerning a support forum: as does Yogani I think it will be a hard job to get it going and it might take several years till our community is considerable. Today it is only an offer. When people begin to use it is uncertain. I guess that will only be when the lessons have become rather popular with the population that speaks only German.
So we should agree upon one forum and moderate it together.

Best regards
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yogani

USA
5100 Posts

Posted - Aug 23 2010 :  6:56:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi kashiraja:

Sounds like a good plan.

If you save this file to your hard drive and put it in the same folder with your website HTML files, the icon should show up in the browser tabs and elsewhere:

http://www.aypsite.org/favicon.ico

The guru is in you.

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