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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 12:30:13 AM
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Hi Everyone 
I feel in my heart that I have to contribute here.
Under the hood, there exists glands. The glands are connected to chakras. By stimulating or controlling the chakras, you affect the glands. Or, by stimulating or putting pressure on the glands through asanas, vibrations, mental thought -mantras or any of the other techniques used, you obtain specific results based on the gland that you are stimulating causing the corresponding chakras to open up or close down.
I have been doing Kunlun for about two months now along with my other practices. I bounce my legs at work, sometimes for hours. When I first started doing Kunlun I took it very seriously until Chris said that you didn't have to keep your hands in the position for the duration of the practice, just long enough to get the bouncing going. And then, it was mentioned that you could bounce your legs while watching TV or some other activity! I used to bounce my legs all of the time in church, sitting on the wooden benches when I was a kid. Funny, too, many times I thought I could actually fly for a few feet or so while running back home after church.. :)
What I first noticed with Kunlun is that while my legs were bouncing (for the hour that I practiced), the center of my brain was stimulated, there was heat right in the center of my head and I sweat a lot. After a few sessions, the heat did go away, like Max said it would. After practicing Kunlun for 5 days, I had a breakthrough and my third eye opened (started seeing flames/auras). Kunlun is a top down opening. How do I know this? Kunlun stimulates the pineal and pituitary glands and causes them to secrete the nectar. I have tasted that nectar, it tastes like sweet milk. That's what Max means when he says it is the oldest simplest quick-quick path: By causing the pineal gland to secrete, it affects the pituitary and gradually balances all of the glands in the body. The extra electrical impulses caused by prolonged reflex action also stimulate and open nerve pathways in the body which are connected to the brain. I would love to hook a Kunlun practitioner up to a brain wave monitoring machine!
Here is a quote from "Kundalini Yoga - The Flow of Eternal Power as taught by Yogi Bhajan, Ph.D." The meditation is for breaking addiction but it exposes the principles that I think Kunlun and Kundalini have at their foundations, which is 'stimulation of the glands':
"In this meditation, the thumbs rest against the temples. The pressure exerted by the thumbs triggers a rhythmic reflex current directly under the stem of the pineal gland. It is imbalance in this obscure area that makes mental and physical addiction seemingly unbreakable.
Imbalance in the area below the pineal upsets the pulsating radiance that regulates the pituitary gland. Since the pituitary gland regulates the rest of the glandular system, the entire body and mind go out of balance when the pineal is dormant. This meditation corrects the problem. It is excellent for everyone but particularily effective for rehabilitation efforts in drug dependance, mental illness and phobic conditions.
Although this meditation will produce results within 5 to 7 minutes, work up to a maximum of 31 minutes per day. Human habit patterns are set of broken in forty-day cycles. More deeply ingrained patterns may take longer to correct.
Once the pineal gland has started secreting, it will give you radiance. It will free you from old patterns.
Sit in a comfortable pose. Straighten the spine and make sure the first six vertebrae are locked forward. Make fists of both hands and extend the thumbs straight out. Place the thumbs on the temples where there is a small indentation about an inch beyond the eyebrows. This is the lower anterior portion of the frontal bone above the temporal-sphenoidal suture.
Lock the back molars together and keep the lips closed. Vibrate the jaw muscles by alternating the pressure on the molars with the rhythym of SA TA NA MA. A muscle will move under the thumbs. Feel it massage the thumbs and apply firm pressure with the hands.
Keep the eyes closed and look toward the brow point. Silently vibrate the syllables SA TA NA MA there. Continue 5 to 7 minutes, working up to 31 minutes over a period of daily practices."
In short, the meditation causes a reflex action which stimulates the pineal gland and causes it to secrete 'nectar' which then stimulates the pituitary into releasing nectar which then regulates the rest of the glands. I think Kunlun uses the same mechanism. Is this the root of inner alchemy? Is not the pineal gland the crown chakra?
Also, in the Yogi Bahjan's book, it states that performing kundalini asanas, meditations and practices will cause the pineal gland to grow and enlarge, which is similar to what Max indicated in his book when he says that the head will change shape.
I am very thankful for all the wonderful experiences that I have been experiencing and as a result, I have a deep desire to understand the mechanisms that are the true causes of these wonderful experiences. Sometimes a little understanding will not only dispell any myths and fears but will produce a clearer path for myself and others to understand and follow.
Always remember, the heart is the most important gland/chakra that we have.
TI
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 11:32:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by VIL
From what I can remember, the coolness and warmness are both your breath. The reason that you may not perceive the warmness is that you need to actively produce this warmness. The warmness is active and the perceived coolness is receptive. The coolness will rise on its own, but again, the warmness you have to produce by breath control/manipulation. This is the fire on a physical level that you may or may not know that you possess.
I think the reason that you're now feeling the coolness is that your breath is moving into your nervous system and you're able to feel it rising on each subsequent inhale/exhale. Actually, percieved by the nervous system, moving from the respiratory to the circulitory system. Yeah, that's got to be it, since there is water around the heart.
Anyway, this is what worked for me:
1. Get yourself into a meditative state. I did this naturally upon waking up when I was younger. So maybe this would be a good time for you, since the sexual impulse is heightened at this time. And there is a definite connection to this. It must be what they consider earth or the base chakra.
- When you are in this state of consciousness the cool sensations seem amplified by your perception, although they're not. They only appear so, since you are in a more receptive state. Anyway, you don't need to do anything with these cool sensations. They are receptive. DO NOT focus on the sensations, since they will dissipate or stay the same. Merely witness/or observe them and put your focus on your breath.
2. Your breath is cool, normally, so you need to warm it up. What I did was purse my lips and draw the breath over the tongue and exhale slowly through the nostrils.
- At this point you will notice that the warmness will be felt in the upper chest, as it moves downward and the coolness will become more and more apparent, as it naturally rises toward the center of the chest to meet the warmness of your inhale. It will transform in what can only be described as water. This may require a lot of practice to become proficient.
- As you become more aware, you will feel these water sensations or cool prick-lings that will begin to draw from all sides of your chest, almost like the feeling like it's being sucked into toward your heart. (An internal itching may also be present in the center of the chest).
- It will happen fast, at this point, since there will be a point of no return. The water sensation will pool to the center of the heart like a torrent and produce a feeling of hardness. It's definitely sexual. Focus on this area.
4. When this hardness is felt, immediately expel your breath through your nostrils. (You'll know it when it happens).
5. You will have a heart orgasm. You may also have a simultaneous groin orgasm too. At this point the breath has broken the hardness and the water sensation will explode throughout your body.
- These energies (earth/air/fire and water) have combined at this point on a mental/physical level by concentration.
Physical perception:
Earth: Location of the sexual Impulse that drives the method.
Air: Inhale/Exhale: Breath
Mental perception of the same breath:
Fire: Inhale (warm)
Water: Exhale (cool)
I think that must be it or something along those lines.
Hello VIL
I read your post as I was exercising kechari mudra, and a funny thing happened. As I read your post jada jada jada I just put my attention on my heart, and when I read #4 I exhaled without waiting for any special feeling, and then immediately experienced #5.
I did not follow you instructions but got the result.
Maybe it is the same thing with this Kunlun deal, maybe you don’t need to read the detailed instructions and understand the explanations before hitting the “on” switch, you just do “it”. The explanations might very well be wrong. The machinery works fine without it.
Just wanted to mention it.
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topflight
3 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 2:00:52 PM
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After further work with Kunlun, I realized that I had overdone it in my initial enthusiasm. What was some lightheadedness became spaciness and a diffuse pain in my forehead. These overload symptoms were unlike any I had experienced before which were previously typically a sharp focused pain in my forehead and irritability.
So I have cut my Kunlun practice back to 5 minutes and plan on building back up from there. I have also decided to move it from after deep meditation to either immediately before or after spinal breathing as it did not seem to “fit” after deep meditation. I have been doing the grounding practice as recommended in the Kunlun book as part of my post deep meditation rest. If I had a recommendation for anyone wanting to try this in conjunction with AYP, it would be to GO SLOW. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 2:32:46 PM
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Great, Lookatmynavelnow! You know then! Piercing the knot of the heart is something that I did naturally and now it's going backward and forward or experienceing the false selves also. So regardless that you did or did not follow the memory that I posted. It's fine! There is no right or wrong way!
Anyway, that's what I mean when I say that I'm going backward and forward, past, furture. Not meaning that I'm really leaving the present: LOL. Or when I say that the end is justified in the beginning.
My mentioning the three deaths. It's experiencing all of the three selves - that of the physical, mental and spirit (dream world). Now... detaching from those objects are really something:  LOL:
The ray of the self I had experienced last year and now the dream world needs to be detached also, since you begin to understand how all three correlate and what is true and what is not. It's hard to explain, but I decided to find something that can conceptualize this better in yoga terminology if there is such a thing:
"31. The knot of the heart is loosed; all doubts are cut; all bondage to works wither away -- when That is known, which is the first and the last.
THE THREE SELVES
32. The individual self appears in three degrees: as a limitation of the Self; as a ray of the conscious Self; and, thirdly, as the self imagined in dreams. The first alone is real.
33. For the limitation in the individual self is a mere imagination; and that which is supposed to be limited is the Reality. The idea of isolation in the individual self is only an error; but its identity with the Eternal is its real nature.
34. And that song they sang of "That thou art" is for the first of these three selves alone; it only is one with the perfect Eternal, not the other selves."
The final realization, which I haven't realized, since you have to detach from the imaginary self within the (literal) dream world too:
"FREEDOM AND FINAL PEACE
46. When the imaginary self melts away, its Being, Consciousness, Bliss sink back into the habitual self; and, when the habitual self comes to rest, they return to the Self supreme, the witness of all."
http://www.swamij.com/shankara-vakya-sudha.htm
Take care:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Feb 20 2008 3:15:12 PM |
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Nilsa
5 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 08:09:16 AM
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Hi T-Ice
It is nice to read the experiences that other people are having with the Kunlun. I started practicing around 2 weeks ago, sadly just with the book, since I am in Switzerland. Funny, my legs wont bounce, my movemets start directly from solar plexus, I twist, turn, rock, go foward and backwards, my legs just move as a result from all this shaking. after 1 week it went directly to the top of my head, I felt as it when up thru the DU Mai internal stem, moved around my skull and pop out DU20. My body ancored itself and wouldnt move, while my head was vibrating and turning, quite lil movements but fast. awsome
take care
Nilsa |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2008 : 4:40:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nilsa
Hi T-Ice
It is nice to read the experiences that other people are having with the Kunlun. I started practicing around 2 weeks ago, sadly just with the book, since I am in Switzerland. Funny, my legs wont bounce, my movemets start directly from solar plexus, I twist, turn, rock, go foward and backwards, my legs just move as a result from all this shaking. after 1 week it went directly to the top of my head, I felt as it when up thru the DU Mai internal stem, moved around my skull and pop out DU20. My body ancored itself and wouldnt move, while my head was vibrating and turning, quite lil movements but fast. awsome
take care
Nilsa
Hi Nilsa
That is awesome! I've felt solid waves coming up from my legs, but nothing like you've experienced. Perhaps your lower body is clear? Or maybe blocked? I don't know..
Have you tried manually bouncing the legs to get them started? And then, once they are started, just relax them and let go... To manually get a leg going, make sure your foot is angled like you are standing on your toes. Then bring the ball of the foot down 1 inch then back up. Repeat this quickly. Also, for me, the foot should be behind the knee; if the foot is too far forward it doesn't work as well. Also, according to Chris, you don't have to keep your arms up once the waves start.
I am not an expert at Kunlun, but there are a few experts called Max and Chris at www.taobums.com and if you posted your question there, I'm sure Chris or someone would answer you.
Good luck
TI
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2008 : 6:03:50 PM
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| I'm not sure if Chris was talking about the bouncing of the legs being the energy itself...so I would keep holding the posture. But what do I know? Not much...so I'm patiently and eagerly waiting for a seminar! |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Feb 29 2008 : 08:39:51 AM
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I've still been practicing most days (when it's possible). Upon further inspection, it seems that the practice makes my abdomen and heart area full of a certain feeling...kind of like butterflies, or anticipation, or love...something like those things. That feeling brings up other feelings. For instance, the other day I became really really angry for no reason, and it lasted a long time.
Also, it seems that when I take a day or two off, the belly feelings become more intense.
I had a similar feeling with AYP...this probably IS kundalini.
Still going...still waiting on a seminar. Just had to post a short update...gotta go to work.
EDIT:
Alright, I am back from work!
So I just had another strange experience. This time after the shaking ended, the energy (or whatever it is) spread through my whole body and made me still...like I was magnetized in that position. I'm not sure if I could have moved, if I had tried.
I love this new practice! |
Edited by - Scott on Mar 01 2008 3:55:23 PM |
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Nilsa
5 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2008 : 02:31:20 AM
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Hey T-Ice
I thik it was a matter of time, my legs are bouncing and shaking wildly now ... wow! What I find interesting is how fast my head can spin like sayin "no". I couldnt do it on my own or hold for so long, cool! By the way Max & Co. are coming to Switzerland!!! |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2008 : 10:07:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nilsa
Hey T-Ice
I thik it was a matter of time, my legs are bouncing and shaking wildly now ... wow! What I find interesting is how fast my head can spin like sayin "no". I couldnt do it on my own or hold for so long, cool! By the way Max & Co. are coming to Switzerland!!!
Hey Nilsa
That is great! I'm glad your legs are bouncing now. You seem to have gone top down.
Lucky you. Are you going to go to one of Max's workshops?
TI |
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Nilsa
5 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2008 : 03:25:13 AM
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Hi T-Ice
I hope to, he'll be here at the end of may.Yeah, the waves start around my kidneys and go up to my head (is like the engine) then goes all over, so cool!
Hey it seems that am losing weight with all this shaking, is it for real? |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2008 : 10:20:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nilsa
Hi T-Ice
I hope to, he'll be here at the end of may.Yeah, the waves start around my kidneys and go up to my head (is like the engine) then goes all over, so cool!
Hey it seems that am losing weight with all this shaking, is it for real?
Hi Nilsa
According to what I've been reading on the many Kunlun posts on the www.taobums.com forum, after a while, you build up the magnetic water energy and store it. (chi or more like apana?) Then you can do things with it and sometimes it goes around your system cleaning things out. Level II is supposed to make the energy more compressed.
I think the shaking will speed up your metabolism, so yes, if you don't increase your caloric intake, then you will lose some weight. Is that a good thing for you? I hope so. 
TI
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mikael
27 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2008 : 5:15:53 PM
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it's strange that you all had such great experiences with Kunlun.
i tried the practice pretty much everyday 30 minutes, for about 3 months. i did get the bouncing legs.. but thats just the muscles fatiguing from holding the position. i didn't really experience any benefits from the practice.
what do you guys do when holding the position? maybe I was doing it wrong. i held the position and tried letting go, not focusing on anything. i'd just get sleepy.
for those who have been practicing for a while, what is your conclusion? is there a real benefit to the practice outside of building up energy? i'm not interested in martial arts.. but rather kundalini and consciousness. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2008 : 06:27:03 AM
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I am going to the New Jersey (USA) seminar in the beginning of May. I plan on finding out more about if this is a really good practice. From what I've experienced it does seem good. I guess I don't need to go over it more, since I already wrote about some of it in here, and everyone's experience will be unique to them.
The only downside I found was that the leg muscles get used to being in that position, and if you're a runner it gives you bad shin splints...so something like downward dogs are necessary to keep the practice from hurting you.
I will update with more of my opinion after more time goes by and I find out more. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2008 : 10:35:21 AM
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| best cure for shin splints is virasana. If you can't do the pose comfortably, sit on a block or a blanket...shouldn't be painful, should just be a stretch. If you can do easy virasana, try supta virasana, especially for 5-10 mins with belt tied to keep knees close together. |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2008 : 9:23:19 PM
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Hey All,
It's fun to see the amazing mahayogis at AYP play with Kunlun! Some thoughts:
You can do Kunlun in siddhasana.
Kunlun is *not* what you are looking for if you are in the market for grounding.
I asked Max if Kunlun can be done with a mantra practice and he said it would be no problem, but to do them at different times of the day.
Kunlun can be done with stillness meditation immediately afterwards.
Careful of overdoing it.
Yours,
Yoda
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2008 : 9:49:38 PM
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I'm dying of curiosity but my tongue won't go there: If anyone combines Kunlun and Kechari, I'd love the report!
Also, if anyone gets the Kunlun book but has a hard time sparking it up, just hold the position for a few minutes and then engage in any sort of relaxed rhythmic motion that occurs to you. (hands can stay in position, relax at sides or on lap, or make whatever motion you wish.)
Also, if you like this sort of thing, check out "Shaking Medicine" by Bradford Keeney. He discusses shaman, kundalini, Quaker, Shaker, Kentucky holy rollers, sacred dance, etc. Great chapter on a Japanese tradition which sounds very similar to Kunlun. Also check out the "Oh glory" video on youtube.
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2008 : 11:05:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yoda
Also, if you like this sort of thing, check out "Shaking Medicine" by Bradford Keeney. He discusses shaman, kundalini, Quaker, Shaker, Kentucky holy rollers, sacred dance, etc. Great chapter on a Japanese tradition which sounds very similar to Kunlun.
Yoda,
I've been many times thinking about Bradford Keeney pathwork being similar to Kunlun when reading this thread so many thanks for your confirmation.
All,
Please read "Bushman Shaman" which gives origin of how Bradford got initiated to shaking medecine via South African shamanism then the mapping with kundalini (N/um)
May i kindly suggest to also connect Kunlun to seidr which is core part of norse shamanism.
Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on Apr 01 2008 12:20:16 AM |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 12:36:57 PM
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Albert,
Any good website suggestions for seidr? I've only read "Shaking Medicine", haven't checked out his other books so far.
Here's the youtube video. Max's student Chris said that this is a good example of Kunlun in action:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_0XFHt_ZbZ0
Max said that you can find traditions similar to Kunlun all over the world... that simply putting the body into certain postures and situations and the energy will flow.
I asked my 7 year old daughter to try the Kunlun position and within seconds she started moving and laughing. (Max suggests that kids are already pretty spiritual, that having them do Kunlun before the age of 12 is overkill and might make it hard for them to fit in well with society, but an occasional taste is no biggie.)
Max mentioned that the Christian pose of altar style kneeling, hands in the prayer position, eyes looking up at an image of Jesus... all of that is a good posture to induce automatic motion and sounds. (Part of it is you have to minimize earth energy and open more to heaven energy.)
There's another practice that Max teaches in the workshop which is a pranayama-like drill focusing on the crystal palace/center of the head area called Red Phoenix. There's a transmission that goes with it and he asks that the specifics not be shared, but it is an important extension of Kunlun. He says that his big discovery is to bring the Kunlun and Red Phoenix practices together from two different traditions... they are like chocolate and peanut butter and bringing them together leads to the attainment of the "dragon body" in men or the "phoenix body" in women, sort of like the Tibetan "rainbow body".
It's not totally unpacked as to what this attainment is but it seems to have something to do with being able to voluntarily die and return to this realm at will.
My guess is that it's the equivalent to the yogi/ni being able to stop their heart at will.
Yoda
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avatar186
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 1:46:34 PM
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if it opens the crown first, then it may defiinitly be unbalancing, or atleast lead to a less grounded feeling state.
"the secret of the golden flower"
this book talks about "breath energy" if you can activate this energy, and sustain it for a period of time. ie a session, itl open your nerves for sure. id say its direct stimulation of the nerves threw breath.
when it comes to inner alchemy, id say their are many many second hand ways, and probly about 4 prominant ways, haha one being better than the other. so find the easyist way for your. ayp offers a pretty good way. |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 3:15:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Yoda
Any good website suggestions for seidr?
Hey Yoda,
Seidr or path of the horse has to do with being possessed by a spirit or energy or whatever so you surrender to become a conduit in this plane of existence:
http://www.cauldronfarm.com/writing/horsepath.html
It usually starts with leg shaking and strong energy winds through the body.
Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on Apr 01 2008 3:19:31 PM |
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topflight
3 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2008 : 11:25:24 PM
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| I have tried every approach I can think of, but apparently the Kunlun energy is incompatible with spinal breathing pranayama. The symptoms for me are energy overload, severe headaches, and being sick to my stomach. The comments in the taobums.com are that Kunlun and Kundalini and/or directed energy are incompatible and that seems to be the case here. Kunlun seems to be fine with deep meditation. |
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Eitherway
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2008 : 7:19:03 PM
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Ok, I know that it hasn't been very long since ayp was introduced to Max's Kunlun practice but I was wondering what if any conclusions are being drawn about this path. Is it worth pursuing or at this point just continue with the wonderful Ayp practices or better yet is there a way to take the best from Kunlun and add safely to our core ayp practice of deep meditation.
Dear Yogani, what is your advice on this at this point??
I just saw that Max and his merrymakers will be traveling to New Jersey in a month or so and am debating whether I should attend his seminar. It's about a 4 hour drive for me from d.c but maybe worth it depending on feedback that I receive.
Also, does anyone know what his kunlun medicine seminar is about? I couldn't find any info on that. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2008 : 05:08:18 AM
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| I'm going to the NJ seminar and the medicine part too. |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2008 : 11:31:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Eitherway
Ok, I know that it hasn't been very long since ayp was introduced to Max's Kunlun practice but I was wondering what if any conclusions are being drawn about this path. Is it worth pursuing or at this point just continue with the wonderful Ayp practices or better yet is there a way to take the best from Kunlun and add safely to our core ayp practice of deep meditation.
Dear Yogani, what is your advice on this at this point??
Hi Eitherway:
I'm not really the right person to answer this, not being a Kunlun Nei Gung practitioner. Some here have been doing the research, self-pacing their way through it, so their experiences and opinions (some posted above) are the best we have so far. In time, we will know more.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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