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Gnosis

USA
68 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2007 :  02:13:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit Gnosis's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hello everyone, this is my first post. I am curious what are peoples experiences with shamanism and how do you feel combining that with your yoga?

I personally feel that certain psychedelics like ayahuasca can and are very beneficial. They help clear negative emotions by giving the user access to the subconscious. I think ayahuasca is an invaluable tool in showing the seeker the spiritual realm that is right around us.

Ayahuasca is different from all other mind altering substances due to the fact that it's active alkaloid is dmt, which is produced during near death experiences, supposedly when the soul enters the fetus their bodies are flooded with dmt, dreaming occurs due to dmt release in the brain etc...

DMT is a neuro-hormone responsible for deep insight and spiritual visions due to the fact that we produce it endogenously. I believe that increasing dmt production in the brain either via dark room technology http://www.universal-tao.com/dark_r...oomIntro.pdf or ayahuasca are very beneficially toward spirituality and physiology.

Dark room retreats are done by master mantak chia, it's a process where you are in complete darkness for about 12 days, during this time your internal dmt production goes through the roof, and you have a psychedelic experience.

Ayahuasca along with another plant called ibogaine show very powerful abilities in aiding those that are addicted to drugs. Ayahuasca has very anti addictive properties, and is used as a treatment for many drug addictions like tobacco, alcohol, and even cocaine.

All drugs I believe eventually wear out the brain and nervous system with repeated use, but ayahuasca is quite different. Ayahuasca actually increases i.q., memory, and serotonin uptake efficiency. During a research study called the hoasca project they found out that dmt binds to 5htp receptor sites, the same receptors as serotonin. What is amazing is that DMT bonds at a higher rate, and the body adapts to this by increasing the number of 5-htp receptor sites, making better use of natural serotonin levels. Ayahuasca is the only known substance in the world to actually increase the brains efficiency to use serotonin.

Most anti depressives are SSRI's which keep serotonin in the brain longer to give the brain more time for serotonin to bind, this may be a result of brain damage due to alcohol, stress, or even genetics that some people lack enough 5htp receptor sites. Could ayahuasca be a permanent cure for depression by increasing 5htp sites?

I have never done ayahuasca but will be doing it shortly, and if I find the experience and visions beneficial, I may integrate it into my own system. I have done marijuana, while fun, I do not consider the experience spiritually or physiologically beneficial. I attained not insights or any deep inner meaning.

Here is a link of some research done on ayahuasca using eeg technology.

http://www.newbrainnewworld.com/?Al...3B:Ayahuasca

Here is another paper on the well known health benefits called the Ayahuasca Effect.

http://www.matrixmasters.com/blog/2...owerful.html

Enjoy

Edited by - AYPforum on Oct 11 2007 12:59:11 PM

Manipura

USA
870 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2007 :  12:56:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Manipura's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to AYP, Gnosis. Thanks for the info about ayahuasca. There's definitely some interest in entheogens on this forum, and imo the people here are pretty open-minded about alternative 'aids' to speed up the process of awakening. There seems to be a general consensus among spiritual communities that entheogens can give you a glimpse of the goal and accelerate the inflow of kundalini in your nervous system. But there's an accompanying agreement that these substances are poor substitutes for a regular meditation practice, and should be used sparingly, for 2 reasons: 1) so that your nervous system has plenty of time to adjust to the increase in energy, and 2) so that you don't become psychologically addicted to the intense 'scenergy' that the drug provides. (Cool word...you heard it here first. Scenergy = scenery + energy). Anyway, you can do a search on the forum for entheogens if you're interested, as it comes up fairly often.
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AYPforum

351 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2007 :  12:59:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2007 :  3:06:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Scenergy = scenery + energy

BRILLIANT! I immediately adopt that word! Thank you!
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anthony574

USA
549 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2007 :  7:49:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit anthony574's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I find mixed reactions. I won't go into it because it'll turn into a massive post.

LSD: I've done this a couple times. Recently it was after I got into AYP and found a definte connection. I find it can be helpful for beginners who are skeptical because it defintley makes you quite aware that the spiritual masters were right all along. The very drug that got me on the path.

Marijuana: Tricky. It can get you too hooked in the sensual plane of existence, but also releases kundalini energy in my experience. I've gone into automatic yoga, including things I've never even done before in practice (dynamic chin pump, ect). I find it plays more on the ecstatic side, but can have negative effects on your inner silence. It can be useful to experiment with asanas and MJ because I have found it actually kind of became a teacher and made me realize posture problems and made me hyper-aware of my body.

Mushrooms: Only done once. Made me painfully aware of what it's like to be in the void and not be able to let go of your ego.

Salvia Divinorum: Same thing. Actually just had a VERY rough experience that I'm still trying to get over.

You really gotta watch some of these things. The trypatamines are similar in composition to the "spiritual compoounds" of the body, namely DMT. When you venture into the entheogenic substances like salvia or mushrooms...they can be really rough and out-worldly and in some cases can leave you actually afraid to advance existentially. i was left in existential horror for quite some time and I think it still makes it hard for me to progress because my idea of what it will be like to be enlightened is based on the experiences I have had in which I was not able to surrender my ego and I suffered greatly for it.

The lesson I've learned overall is if you are inclines to experiment, especially early on it can be a good motivator and refresher. On the other hand, it can turn on you and leave you with an unhealthy and even dangerous preconception of enlightenment. Yoga slowly acclimates you to the idea of seperating yourself from your ego whereas entheogens rip your ego away from you like ripping a security blanket away from a 3-year-old and you're left crying and fighting. Just a warning to people who are considering it. You would be very suprised at the inability to see the truth when you are not ready. And worst of all, you can never be sure it really IS the truth.
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Gnosis

USA
68 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2007 :  01:58:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Gnosis's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I am not really interested in doing anything besides ayahuasca, because the spirit molecules of dmt are already in the body, not to mention ayahuasca does not damage the body or brain, rather does the opposite. I have heard of people damaging themselves with lsd, having flash backs. This is because lsd was not used by shamans of indigenous cultures for spiritual practices. These substances have been around for thousands of years, and if they were dangrous and produced psychological and physiological disturbances it would have been known by now. I focus on the south american shamanism, because the amazon is the mecca of shamanism. The science of shamanism in the amazon predates just about all cultures. The mayans, incas, and aztecs had extensive sciences around the usage of plant spirit guides (entheogens), so it's best to start there.

I think there is a common problem that people think that entheogenic substances are a replacement for real work in alchemy and meditation. This makes no sense. That is like a body builder taking tons of whey protein shakes and expecting the muscles to just appear on his/her body, this is utter nonsense.

The problem is that shamanism is not looked at as a serious science, rather it is viewed as a method of sick escapism, when in truth it is the exact opposite, it gets you in direct connection with reality. Due to the pharmaceutical drug cartels propaganda about entheogenic substances, people in this country have a jaded perspective about entheogenic substances.

Entheogens are like spiritual supplements, they just aid in developing better neuro- efficiency, healing the mind/body, and giving great deep spiritual insight. It is just human nature to use substances to be inebriated, there is not culture in the world that does not use some sort of inebriant. Unfortunately the common choice is alcohol which is both addictive and destructive to the brain/liver; therefore, is non beneficial to the spiritual life.

Anything and everything we do can be used as a form of spiritual alchemy. Sex turned into tantra and sexual alchemy. Violence turned into martial arts. Breathing turned into pranayama. And eating turned into a source of spiritual fuel with the creations of vegetarian and raw food diets as a way to refine and purify the mind and body. I think the natural urge to be inebriated should be investigated as well, and find safe and effective ways to focus this desire into something productive.

The methods of shamanism are just as in depth as the science of any tantra or daoist alchemy, not to mention their science goes back even further. Shamanism is without a doubt the oldest form of transpersonal psychology and spirituality known to man. Shamanism dates back way before lao tzu, patanjali, bodhidharma and the like. The methods of shamanism with yoga can be mutual instead of exclusive. The first forms of coherent thought about 120,000 years ago were in the form of cave drawings, of entities not found on earth. Often these paintings were of animal man combinations like the Egyptian paintings with their classic bird head styles. It is possible that the first religion was the accidental consumption of plants the induced an altered state of consciousness, where the veil to the spirit world was pierced, after that the rest became a sophisticated spiritual technology to heal the soul and bring forth conscious evolution.

The main problem with shamanism is that it has turned into a drug culture and into a whimsy hippy culture, none of which provide any real spiritual applications. What someone needs to do, is to study shamanism and create a spiritual manual for us similar to what yogani did. I guess it would be called Advanced Shamanic Practices.

There are extensive systems of naturopathic medicine that deal with problems of the body. We have traditional chinese medicine and ayurveda as the most predominant. But they do not more or less deal with mental or spiritual health. That is where the shaman comes in. If there are plants that are good for our biology, there have to be plants that are good for our psychology it just makes sense. Look at the state of clinical psychology, almost no one gets better. Through the application of western science, psychology came to the conclusion that shamans came to thousand of years ago, chemicals can be used to treat mental illness. The problem is that regular psychology lacks and integrative trans personal aspect, so it does not acknowledge the spirit, rather it views the body as a gelatenous bioelectric meat sack, an automaton of "random" evolution due to darwinian natural selection.

I think that dmt containing substances can and should be researched as a form of spiritual therapy that can help those with deep psychological disorders. In the links that I posted, the paper on the ayahuasca effect was written by someone who was deeply troubled by depression and was cured from depression via ayahuasca, by cured I don’t' mean having to take drugs everyday to mask the symptoms, I mean a permanent cure!

I think it’s sad that eastern spiritual practices look down on these medicines and say they are not valid. They can and should be an integral part of any neophyte’s spiritual experience as long as it is done in the presence of an experienced shaman. There needs to be some serious investigation into the usage of plant substances in being used for psychological treatment and spiritual practice.

Maybe I myself will go to the amazon with the experienced shaman and write my own book since there seems to be the lacking of a definitive guide to entheogenic sciences here in the states, I am sure there are a lot of people who would benefit from that.


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anthony574

USA
549 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2007 :  09:21:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit anthony574's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I have been curious about Holotropic Breathwork. I hear it is more managable than psychadelic drugs and being that I can't make a trip to visit the Ayahuascaderos it seems like an alternaive worth trying. I have heard many accounts of animal identification, archetypal images, and other things that seem similar to DMT.
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lorf

48 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2007 :  1:43:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit lorf's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Drugs do speed the spiritual development up. Thus often creating huge openings but I am convinced that the Toltecs are right when they warn that the drugs will leave scars in energy body. These do not matter in the beginning but the damage will be a major obstacle when trying the more fine tuned levels of spiritual development. Or simply, it is not possible to reach the same levels as one would have without the aid of drugs.
/lorf
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LittleTurtle

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2007 :  3:11:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Recall the story in Be Here Now of Baba Ram Dass giving his guru Neem Karoli Baba a huge dose of LSD. Ram Dass waited and waited and then realized that nothing happened. The high quality LSD given had no effect because his guru was already "there".
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Gnosis

USA
68 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2007 :  3:39:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Gnosis's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I have never heard that the toltecs said drugs leave scars on the energy body, if that's true, then we are all doomed because dmt is produced in torrent amounts during dream states and during high levels of meditation. I find it amazing that most westerners after a cetain age have very poor dream recall. Could this be due to a dmt deficiency?

I don't really see how the body would be able to tell the difference between endogenous dmt and exogenous dmt. DMT is DMT, I agree that foreign substances like cocain, opium, tobacco may do this, but DMT is not a drug, it is a medicine.

We got throught he dmt cycle every night if you didn't you would die, that is why I think dmt is so necessary. DMT unlike any other neurhormone is necessary for normal body function. You body doesn't make lsd, mescaline, psilocybin, thc etc..., but it does make dmt and lots of it. DMT is actually good for the nervous system and ne necessary neurohormone.

I think in our modern society, we have lost touch with mother nature, which is why we so easily destroy her. I think the combination of artificial light from light bulbs reduces our natural dmt cycle, since light deactivates it. Not to mention environmental chemicals like flouride calcify the pineal gland that actually produces dmt. Not to mention tryptophan which the first nutrient in the dmt cycle is deficient in most people's diet, since cooking destroys it.

Shamans have been using aya for thousand of years, and they have quite powerful energy bodies and a thorough knowledge of the spirit world.
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anthony574

USA
549 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2007 :  11:15:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit anthony574's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I know about fluoride, but explain more about the typtophan thing.

I have been trying to preach the fluoride thing for a while on this site. Talk about spiritual sabotage.
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Gnosis

USA
68 Posts

Posted - Oct 13 2007 :  12:39:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit Gnosis's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574

I know about fluoride, but explain more about the typtophan thing.

I have been trying to preach the fluoride thing for a while on this site. Talk about spiritual sabotage.



Read this

http://www.acutcmdetox.com/tryptophan2.html

It talks about the relation to meditation, the nutrient of tryptophan, and how spirit molecules are formed i.e. dmt.

There are two ways I know of to have a true dmt experience. One is through external alchemy via the shamanic elixir ayahuasca or through internal alchemy by going to a dark room retreat, which Mantak Chia's is the only one in existence. I think both would be interesting and quite beneficial.

Enjoy

Edited by - Gnosis on Oct 13 2007 02:56:51 AM
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anthony574

USA
549 Posts

Posted - Oct 13 2007 :  10:26:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit anthony574's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to try dmt sometime, but rather than put together my own brew using harmaline and other legal substances that I hear are inferior I would like to some day take a trip to Peru and take it with real natives who have a connection with the plant. I think to take an entheogen in the presence of a people who have a relationship with the plants spanning centuries is most beneficial.

Out of curiosity, what steps do you personally take to prevent fluoride build-up as best you can (as we all know it is impossible to eliminate completely)?
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anthony574

USA
549 Posts

Posted - Oct 13 2007 :  10:33:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit anthony574's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok I skimmed the article. He pushes whey protein supplements but I have heard a lot of bad things about whey protein and I personally don't prefer to supplement protein specifically because I do not believe it is good for the body. What if you took just tryptophan supplements? It is interesting that it is found in white rice, which is a staple of asian and indian diets. other than that and potatoes, I cannot use any of the other sources because I am a vegetarian and do not wish to change that aspect of my diet.
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Gnosis

USA
68 Posts

Posted - Oct 13 2007 :  6:31:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit Gnosis's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
That's good that you are a vegetarian, so am I. I know that article is a little cheesey, that he seems that he is pushing whey protein isolates. I don't use them, but my point is that tryptophan is an essential nutrient in the endogenous creation of spirit molecules.

If you are interested in a vegetarian source here it is, it is the griffonia seed. It contains high amount of 5htp, which is the next step after tryptophan in the dmt cycle in the body.

And anthony, I don't know who told you that home made aya medicine is inferior, it is not true. There are reputable sources that sell aya admixtures that are from the amazon picked by skilled shamans, so the inferior stuff is not true. But I do agree that for the full transpersonal therapy, yes it's better to be with a shaman because he can use the sacred power songs of the plants to help heal the mind and energy body. These songs are called icaros, they are similar to sanskrit mantras. They are sacred sounds taught to the shamans by the plants.

I, in the next couple weeks will be making my own brew at home, and will let you guys know the results. I will be making a brew from mimosa and rue. If you guys want a good forum for aya users go here:

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/index.php

It's worth it to subscribe if you are interested, lots of good info. I think ayahuasca is something necessary for our development, so important that god decided to integrate dmt journeys every night, we call it dreaming.

I don't think that it's possible to aya to damage your body, because there is a law in the universe, as above so below. I don't understand how something can be good for your body and bad for your energy body, that is impossible. As above so below is one of the oldest spiritual laws in existence.

Aya is very healthy for your body, in increases serotonin efficiency, i.q. and memory. For more info on that, read the hoasca project.



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anthony574

USA
549 Posts

Posted - Oct 13 2007 :  8:19:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit anthony574's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a lot for the info. Let me know how it goes. Tell the gnomes I said hooorrraaaayyy!

Edited by - anthony574 on Oct 14 2007 10:23:47 AM
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selfonlypath

France
294 Posts

Posted - Dec 31 2007 :  04:36:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Gnosis
There are two ways I know of to have a true dmt experience. One is through external alchemy via the shamanic elixir ayahuasca or through internal alchemy by going to a dark room retreat, which Mantak Chia's is the only one in existence. I think both would be interesting and quite beneficial.


Hey Gnosis,

You might discover that Tibetan Buddhism and Tibetan Bon Po have been using "dark retreat" for millenium ages, usually the retreat last 49 days even longer for an advanced yogi.

quote:
Originally posted by Gnosis
These songs are called icaros, they are similar to sanskrit mantras. They are sacred sounds taught to the shamans by the plants.


Icaros can also be acquired by a shaman without using entheogens (i.e. extactic dancing and drumming).

Albert
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jillatay

USA
206 Posts

Posted - Jan 01 2008 :  12:51:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit jillatay's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Gnosis
I think it’s sad that eastern spiritual practices look down on these medicines and say they are not valid. They can and should be an integral part of any neophyte’s spiritual experience as long as it is done in the presence of an experienced shaman.



Herein lies the rub. You speak as if there are all kinds of experienced shamans out there/here to just pick from, when in actuality the shaman movement is only a few years old. Also, you have the same danger as with gurus, etc. Some are just trying to get money or power.

The real benefit of a long term spiritual program that includes meditation and other disciplines is you take refuge in yourself. Maybe you can get some guidance from others but the "guru is in you" as Yogani puts it. I also notice that you are speaking 2nd hand of these substances, since you don't yet have first hand knowledge of which you speak.

Really, best wishes. But I will stick with the old standard of spiritual development by myself, for myself. And it is free!
It only costs everything I have and am. LOL

May you find what you seek,
Jill
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Sparkle

Ireland
1457 Posts

Posted - Jan 01 2008 :  03:59:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Sparkle's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Jillatay said: It only costs everything I have and am. LOL

LOL Jill you never said a truer word
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selfonlypath

France
294 Posts

Posted - Jan 04 2008 :  1:59:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Gnosis,

Using entheogens tend to create holes in the energy field plus if your kundalini is already awakened, you'll risk some powerful leaks that can deeply affect your grounding. Here is a quote of a close friend who is a quechua shaman from Argentina:

The problem is that Ayahuasca should be taken after an intensive study of the underlying philosophy and the methods of the Andean Mysticism. Traditionally, it´s taken about four-five years after the initiation of the prospective shaman. But like any other industry, today you can find people who can sell you "workshops" which will mess your life, if you take them. Think of the yagé as a doorway into some worlds. If you cross that threshold without being ready, you can be exposed to harm.

I would recommend first going to a good shaman (you can find them in the most conservative Andean regions, like the Q´ero of Peru, the Aymara of Bolivia or the Quechua of Argentina) and stay there for at least a couple of months learning. Then, if you take ayahuasca, you will have at least some tools for working with the problems that may arise.

Well, it depends on the group per se. For example, the Q´ero use mainly Coca, but outside of the village Q´ero they use ayahuasca. The very word Ayahuasca is a Qechua word, and they live on the highlands (about 10.000 feet sea level). However, bear in mind that the lowland groups that use it, while most have some element of highlands shamanism (like Santo Daime) are much newer and sincretic. To my knowledge, only the guaraníes and the tupíes here in Argentina used it before the 1500´s. Most of the other groups (the charrúas) are somewhat newer.
Sadly, I don´t have many written references on the rituals and the use, because there´s not much written that has been recieved from a traditional source. Since at least here in Argentina the Amautas (elders) have only allowed teaching the path since the first minor cycle since the Pachakutiq (in 1996) only now aspects of the culture are being recorded.
The traditional Qechua way, as far as I´ve been told, is that you should learn the way of seeing the different energies, work with your energy bubble, do the sexual practices, the geomantic arrangements, the travel between the worlds, learn how to do "despachos" (offerings) and work with coca, tobacco and San Pedro BEFORE even touching ayahuasca. I know that most of the lowlands groups work with ayahuasca from day one (I even have a friend who is a Santo Daime priest), but as I said, I have never found a group with a tradition older than the Inca of the Qechuas who use it. That, of course, doesn´t mean that there isn´t: I´m pretty sure that if you go to Peru or Venezuela and search the smaller groups of original people there you would find it. However, speaking from my experience, it´s very difficult to find a tradition that has such a varied methodology AND uses enthogens, so until I´ve learned all that I can from Qechua shamanismo (probably, in about 3X5*23 years) I`ll
stick to this one. :D (well, and buddhism).
However, I´ve seen a lot of cases lately of people who have been wrecked by ayahuasca. Sadly, there are groups calling themselves "Santo Daime" which are just groups of people charging for ayahuasca. And when something goes wrong, they don´t know how to deal with it.


In Shakti, Albert
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Gnosis

USA
68 Posts

Posted - Jan 05 2008 :  12:27:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Gnosis's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I have heard from several people that entheogens can cause some sort of tears, scarring, or holes in the energy body, but only on forums, I really never it from a shaman.

I would highly agree that studying with a shaman would be much much better than trying to do it ones own. The latter method is probably not as safe and the benefits are probably not as far reaching as taking aya in the presence of an experienced shaman.

I bet ayahuasca can do quite a bit of damage to ones self, similar to how the kundalini can do damage to a person who is not ready for it.

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selfonlypath

France
294 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2008 :  04:51:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Gnosis
I have heard from several people that entheogens can cause some sort of tears, scarring, or holes in the energy body, but only on forums, I really never it from a shaman.


Well some authentic shamans happen to post sometimes wisdom advices on forums so my suggestion for you would be then to find an authentic shaman (not all these plastic shamans or wanabees shamans) and ask her/him if the above is true or not. In other words, ground yourself into the reality of the middle world by meeting person because like you said, web information needs extra-filtering before using it safely. Also as another member wrote on this thread on your behalf, you seem to have only second hand knoweldge on this tricky and dangerous path of the plant. Most the info you've shared on DMT, shamanism, Ayahuasca comes from stuff you read on the web, forums or books so you're kind of contradicting yourself.

quote:
Originally posted by Gnosis
I bet ayahuasca can do quite a bit of damage to ones self, similar to how the kundalini can do damage to a person who is not ready for it.


Indeed, Ayahuasca can be shaktipat-plant so it can awaken kundalini except the cosmology and its own purification steps to be taken first are totally different that you'll get from for example Siddhamahayoga (Shaktipat from a guru).

You mentioned also Ibogaine. Well let me tell you this, it is even more dangerous than Ayahuasca so I find your posts dangerous to read by young people on this forum or anywhere.

Among other things, the dangers of entheogens are:
- it dissolves your ego, shows you the self and this can be very difficult because if too much energy is liberated through this realization, then it will make a hole in your energy field if you're not ready for the big detox
- once the plant has been dissolved in your body, you'll not have the effect so it brought you nothing except you took the risk to become crazy or die (case of Ibogaine) during the trip. Whereas conventional self-practice like yogas or tantras can bring the same awareness and once you reach, you'll never forget it because your internal alchemical wiring will be locked on.

It seems from your differents posts and threads you want to control kundalini-shakti by speeding up the process you might not be prepared.

Albert

Edited by - selfonlypath on Jan 06 2008 06:02:33 AM
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Scott

USA
969 Posts

Posted - Jan 06 2008 :  08:52:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit Scott's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Albert, great post.
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Gnosis

USA
68 Posts

Posted - Jan 12 2008 :  02:42:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit Gnosis's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I personally do not feel that ayahuasca is dangerous with the right preparation and guidance, you know what's dangerous, teaching people how to perform kechari mudra using the cutting technique via a forum/book. You speak of danger? That is dangerous, only someone experienced should help a neophyte with that, not a guru that hides his identity from his students.

I have not actually done ayahuasca, this is true, I am merely speaking from a scholarly stand point from sources ranging from forums, books, blogs, and real people. I will be trying it hopefully by the end of this month. But I do know a person that has actually been to plenty ayahuasca ceremonies.

I met her by happy mistake and she is a member of santo daime church. She is going to aid me on my experience with ayahuasca. I would recommend most to seeking the guidance of a real shaman, but doing so results in a lot of money going to south America and possibly even paying for an ayahuasca ceremony.

Even practices like yoga can be very dangerous. Just because you are using the methods of yogani doesn't mean that there is no danger as a result of practice. Look at gopi krishna, just meditating, and boom kundalini awakening for him that was hell. A guru is there because he is there to aid you in your time of need, and guide you. The guru is always within, but the external guru is essential to yoga imo. Such is the hermetic law, as within, so without. Just as the universe exists within, it also exists without. Yogani is your guru if you follow ayp teachings. By Guru I mean teacher, not master.

What if something goes wrong with you meditation and you have a spontaneous kundalini awakening? Who will help you? Yogani? We don't even know his real name or where he lives. That is not to say his practices are not valid, but dont' think for a minute you tread a path that is safe. Meditation can do the same thing that ayahuasca can do.

The dangers of meditation can be found like I said via Gopi Krishna's book and by many accounts online using various yoga techniques. Trust me horrible things can happen as a result of improper energy flow, and this can only be regulated by someone who can see your development and help pace you, we are novices, and pacing yourself can be dangerous, this is why the teacher is of importance.

I think both yoga and shaman ism require that a skilled experienced individual guide you, before you become your own master.

Google kundalini syndrome. And you can see all the dangers of yogic practice.



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lucidinterval1

USA
193 Posts

Posted - Jan 12 2008 :  10:17:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Gnosis,

Why the attack on Yogani? There is danger in everything we do. You can drink too much water and die. AYP constantly stresses self pacing. That is key to approaching this safely. I have been around this forum for a long time and as far as I can tell there have been no serious casualties. AYP is a safety minded approach. Is there risk? Certainly as there is in any endeavor.

Your posts have been very informative. Let's keep the tone positive.

Paul
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Black Rebel Radio

USA
98 Posts

Posted - Jan 12 2008 :  10:58:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Black Rebel Radio's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I think that Gnosis has made perfectly valid points and I don't see it as an attack on Yogani or his guidance. Yogani's teachings and guidance have transformed my life but it doesn't mean I haven't thought the same things. I'm sure everyone here has. I would think that he would encourage it. There is a lot of anxiety involved in walking the spiritual path and I think that it is good for folks to express themselves even if it could be interpreted to be negative towards the teachings and the messenger. I think it all comes down to "The Guru Is In You." which is analogous to "Lean On Your Own Spine". That is where freedom lies.

Gnosis, I have only been doing this a few months and I don't really know the levels of kundalini awakening and the issues that have arisen with AYP practicioners but I have a feeling that the folks here(and especially Yogani) would never standby and watch someone drown.

I think that you just have to listen to your inner voice and be cautious.

Personally, I did a very large amount of LSD when I was a teenager (among many other things)and believe that I have experienced the true self and the God consciousness. I have experienced it with stimulants as well but they nearly destroyed me. I know plenty of stories of folks who didn't make it out alive or didn't make it out of the mental institution that they were thrown into after exceeding their nervous system's boundaries.

Although I have no experience with a guru up close and personal, I don't think that anyone could ever count on one knowing your boundaries.

Whatever you do and whatever path you take, know that God is with you as well as the thoughts and selves within this forum.

Peace
Mac
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