|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 1:28:56 PM
|
I have been contemplating a couple of different angles on the same topic a lot recently.
The first I have been pondering is how I believe practices are critical for realizing we are not this body, that we are one with the universe or in AYP terms: Unity Consciousness. However, once this realization hits home, do we continue with practices and if so what for? It is just another awakening along the way, like kundalini awakening was? Do we continue on with awakenings indefinitely? I have to admit to a deep down curiosity of just how far we can go in these bodies.
The other curiosity I have been pondering is how the dual world is starting to become increasingly non-dual for me. Everything is positive, even what I once thought of as negative. I know this will probably offend the sensibilities of many forum members as they look around the world and see so much pain and suffering, but to me the pain and suffering is critical for realization and growth.
So this world of duality is becoming increasing non-dual for me. I am seeing my action go forth into the world in increasingly positively focussed directions, sometimes with selfish intent and sometimes because it just feels good and makes me happy to see others happy (isn't this selfish intent again?)
I don't know, what do others think? Unity conscious people please also feel free to comment!
A
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 5:42:51 PM
|
Hi Andrew
you said quote:
The other curiosity I have been pondering is how the dual world is starting to become increasingly non-dual for me. Everything is positive, even what I once thought of as negative.
Isn't it strange that in duality we have a world full of polarities - good/bad, black/white, male/female etc. and positive and negitive.
In the non-dual world life seems to be positive and good, but is it? and if it's not, what is it?
Louis  |
 |
|
|
Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 11:18:24 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
The other curiosity I have been pondering is how the dual world is starting to become increasingly non-dual for me. Everything is positive, even what I once thought of as negative. I know this will probably offend the sensibilities of many forum members as they look around the world and see so much pain and suffering, but to me the pain and suffering is critical for realization and growth.
Yeah it offends me. I'm a toddler in Yoga but I think that Yoga is useless if it makes you just accept negative things and not do something about it. Yoga is only good if, while it makes you remain happy in the midst of negative things, also pushes you into doing something about it. You can't witness a murder and not inform the police, that is. That would be highly undesirable.
|
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 11:59:40 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Maximus
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
The other curiosity I have been pondering is how the dual world is starting to become increasingly non-dual for me. Everything is positive, even what I once thought of as negative. I know this will probably offend the sensibilities of many forum members as they look around the world and see so much pain and suffering, but to me the pain and suffering is critical for realization and growth.
Yeah it offends me. I'm a toddler in Yoga but I think that Yoga is useless if it makes you just accept negative things and not do something about it. Yoga is only good if, while it makes you remain happy in the midst of negative things, also pushes you into doing something about it. You can't witness a murder and not inform the police, that is. That would be highly undesirable.
Hi Maximus,
Though it's not contained in the paragraph quoted above, there is no intention to suggest that there is no action. The action comes out of inner silence and love. If I perceive something like a violation of someone's will in some way, I instinctively want to help in whatever way I can, it comes from within, you act before you think. The action doesn't come from rules you have in your mind about what should or shouldn't be done in a given situation, but it springs from your heart and is born out of love and inner silence.
Acceptance of what is doesn't mean right action won't spring from you, this is part of what is too no? I know it comes across as abstract, but it is not as simple as to just say acceptance of what is means not doing anything about anything, when our hearts speak we listen and will know what to do that is perfectly in harmony to affect the given situation, we can't help it.
For me, the further we go along the yoga path, the more everyone else’s good intentions are our good intentions. We are all here together, doing the best with who we are, instinctively we want well being and happiness for others too, at least this is the way it is for me.
Peace to you and thanks for getting me to elaborate my perspective,
Anthem11
|
|
|
|
Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 1:22:52 PM
|
| I agree Andrew. |
|
|
|
Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 08:18:35 AM
|
Hi everyone:
Interesting topic and intriguing posts. Of particular interest to me is the contradiction of the topic itself.
How can any perspective based on value judgements and ego discriminations be considered even remotely akin to Non-Duality? 
The mere act of making a comparative analysis and assessment of relative 'positive/good' vs.'negative/bad' reflects mental activity which is still firmly grounded in Duality, does is not 
Hari OM!
Doc
|
|
|
|
Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 10:38:24 AM
|
But we do have to begin somewhere. For most of us that is from the perception of duality Discussing is part of the unraveling process that we are sharing. If we didn't need to discuss and explore we wouldn't come here!
With Love
Alan |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 11:19:01 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Hi everyone:
Interesting topic and intriguing posts. Of particular interest to me is the contradiction of the topic itself.
How can any perspective based on value judgements and ego discriminations be considered even remotely akin to Non-Duality?
The mere act of making a comparative analysis and assessment of relative 'positive/good' vs.'negative/bad' reflects mental activity which is still firmly grounded in Duality, does is not
Hari OM!
Doc
Hi Doc,
Thanks for chiming in,you raise a great point and are helping to make this thread go in the direction I was hoping it would.
Yes this is the apparent paradox to me, as those enlightened masters before us embrace oneness, opening fully to it and then bringing "This" back into the world of duality with them, how does it manifest?
Is their action birthed from duality or non-duality? Do they continue to meditate or perform any daily practices or do they simply walk in perpetual connection with the infinite/formlessness of it all?
The moment of their awakening to their divine nature, does it mark the last stop along the spiritual path or is there a continuous unfolding which they embrace? Do they continue to perform practices to maximize this if it exists?
A
|
|
|
|
Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 11:46:18 AM
|
Hi Alan:
Quite so! But so long as the discussion and exploration is based primarily on Duality references only, namely comparative value judgements and ego discriminations, we remain separated from That which is sought...the Unity or One-ness of Non-Duality. 
A major pre-requisite for Samadhi absorption in the One-ness of Non-Duality is the Self-Realization that such comparative assessments are mere Illusions! They are false realities founded on our worldly, human perceptions of paired opposites operating within a limitedly defined concept of a non-existent Space and Time Continuum. 
Therefore, the exploration of Non-Duality, IMO, must strive to break the chains of limited, duality thinking in order to focus mental concentration upon the Unlimited Divine Source of That which is beyond comparison...That which encompasses All That Is...equally...without the slightest limiting qualification or comparative restriction.
When we also concurrently engage our Higher Consciousness in Contemplative Prayer and Deep Meditation accordingly, with deep devotion and sincerity, the impediments of Duality thinking and feeling are gradually detached and released. That which remains is Divine Consciousness, totally immersed in the One-ness of Non-Duality only. 
Hari OM!
Doc |
|
|
|
Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 11:50:44 AM
|
Those are interesting questions, A. I don't beleive they will ever be answered. When we know ourselves we will know how it is to be That and express That. Though we can ponder. My guess would be the continous unfolding you mentioned. I would suspect a truly awakened one's expression would be a continuation of practice rather than needing to stop and sit and meditate. I will guess that it becomes more of a natural flow of Life moving through the body and out, and Knows where, when, what and how to practice. I'm thinking the body and the yoga are not confined to any one form. Maybe that is the ultimate practice in this manifestation.
|
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 11:53:47 AM
|
Hi All:
"Stillness in action."
Can we have one without the other?
Must we have one without the other?
Can advaita (non-dualism) be upheld as "stillness in action?" Perhaps not logically or philosophically. But experientially it certainly can.
Where there is such a paradox, the divine is surely interpenetrating, while doing nothing at all.
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
|
Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 12:09:07 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Hi Alan:
Quite so! But so long as the discussion and exploration is based primarily on Duality references only, namely comparative value judgements and ego discriminations, we remain separated from That which is sought...the Unity or One-ness of Non-Duality.
A major pre-requisite for Samadhi absorption in the One-ness of Non-Duality is the Self-Realization that such comparative assessments are mere Illusions! They are false realities founded on our worldly, human perceptions of paired opposites operating within a limitedly defined concept of a non-existent Space and Time Continuum.
Therefore, the exploration of Non-Duality, IMO, must strive to break the chains of limited, duality thinking in order to focus mental concentration upon the Unlimited Divine Source of That which is beyond comparison...That which encompasses All That Is...equally...without the slightest limiting qualification or comparative restriction.
When we also concurrently engage our Higher Consciousness in Contemplative Prayer and Deep Meditation accordingly, with deep devotion and sincerity, the impediments of Duality thinking and feeling are gradually detached and released. That which remains is Divine Consciousness, totally immersed in the One-ness of Non-Duality only.
Hari OM!
Doc
Good points Doc. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. And now I must go, for there is duality to attend to. I'm off to continue to practice being, as yogani says, stillness in action. |
|
|
|
Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 12:12:20 PM
|
Hi Anthem:
The questions you raise are at once both enticing and perplexing. Unfortunately for our inquiring minds, such questions can only be truly answered, and such knowledge only truly understood, through the personal experience of profound Self-Realization found in a well directed and steady Sadhana. 
Aside from such experiential knowledge, how can we really be certain that the answers given by anyone are valid? This is exactly why experiential learning via Dharana, Dhyana, and Samadhi are recommended in lieu of intellectual analysis and conjecture regarding these things. Accept no substitutes, there simply is no short-cut around a well established Sadhana.
Good luck...and May the Force be with you! 
Hari OM!
Doc |
|
|
|
Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 12:34:09 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Can advaita (non-dualism) be upheld as "stillness in action?" Perhaps not logically or philosophically. But experientially it certainly can.
Where there is such a paradox, the divine is surely interpenetrating, while doing nothing at all.
The guru is in you.
Hi Yogani!
You raise a great point here. Swami Narayanananda taught me that the essence of "stillness in motion" is a combination of our "stillness" of mind and spirit, gradually acquired through a steady Sadhana, and the "motion" of Divine Presence always permeating every aspect of our life and Being as a result of such Union.
In this way, we may act in harmony with Divine Presence, rather than acting primarily of our own volition, yet retain the "stillness" or "silence" of That Presence found in the One-ness of the Great Ocean of Consciousness, as referred to in Advaita Vedanta.
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Mar 08 2007 12:40:06 PM |
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 12:39:44 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Accept no substitutes, there simply is no short-cut around a well established Sadhana.
Amen to that. |
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2007 : 2:12:15 PM
|
An example of duality and non-duality acting together for me was as I was recently reading Yogani's Samyama book I felt myself entering inner silence.
It is like the words were written out of inner silence and this is felt and picked up by the reader.
This seems like a practical example of the two acting as one i.e. duality/non-duality
I think the idea of non-duality as being a big mystery is, thankfully, on the way out. It is becoming more accessible through practices like AYP and the words of people like Tolle and Katrine, Adyashanti and others.
It still of course has to be experienced, but the big mystery is being erroded.
For me the AYP practices are the most comprehensive set of tools I have experienced to marry the dual/non-dual reality of life. For me both live together.
As Katrine would say, it is less about stilling the waves on the lake and more about being the lake, waves and all.(or words to that effect)
my 2 cents
Louis |
|
|
|
Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2007 : 12:08:48 PM
|
We've got some dual/non-dual discussion going on here and there, so I'll just stick this here.
I'm beginning to see the silliness of all the rules and segregations of dual vs. non-dual and what approach, or practice is right or not right. My experience of life is both dual and non-dual (though the non-dual of it currently appears limited) so I have the freedom to create my own approach. The only toes that I can possibly step on are mine. Laughing
Balance |
Edited by - Balance on Mar 10 2007 1:50:28 PM |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2007 : 10:55:29 AM
|
Just wanted to share that I have been reading Byron Katie's book "A Thousand Names For Joy" and it is the best book I have read to date for a glimpse into the world of "non-dual duality" or "stillness in action" if you prefer.
It has really helped me to appreciate living in the ever flowing, ever changing, yet never changing here and now.
A
|
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2007 : 5:01:10 PM
|
Thanks Andrew, I have just started "Loving What Is" and it is going well. Also have NVC books on order but I guess I'll have to try this one also.
Difficult to get time to read these days. |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2007 : 09:01:31 AM
|
quote:
Though it's not contained in the paragraph quoted above, there is no intention to suggest that there is no action. The action comes out of inner silence and love. If I perceive something like a violation of someone's will in some way, I instinctively want to help in whatever way I can, it comes from within, you act before you think. The action doesn't come from rules you have in your mind about what should or shouldn't be done in a given situation, but it springs from your heart and is born out of love and inner silence.
Acceptance of what is doesn't mean right action won't spring from you, this is part of what is too no? I know it comes across as abstract, but it is not as simple as to just say acceptance of what is means not doing anything about anything, when our hearts speak we listen and will know what to do that is perfectly in harmony to affect the given situation, we can't help it.
I have found myself obsessively picking up things that people drop or that falls by accident.
(I have at the same time found others to frantic pick up things I drop... Wonder if there's a connection? )
I also have to let people go before me in lines. My mind can think "Oh, I'm in a hurry, darn what a long line, I'll never make it. Gosh, this irritates me!" And then someone comes and I smile and let them go before me because they seem to be in greater need of getting finished quicker than me. Very irritating when the body does things on its own like that! My mind is sort of gazing at me and wonder if I really have all horses in the stable...
|
|
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2007 : 10:13:18 AM
|
| On the topic of nonduality: I've had ample opportunity in the past few weeks to observe myself in some very challenging situations, and have had the realization that I create all the drama in my life. Every bit of it. It doesn't matter that a situation wasn't my 'fault' - I still created it. In the inner stillness I become fully aware that there is no 'other', and I am 100% responsible for every situation and drama that arises. Non-dual thinking blurs the edges of blame and victimization, which are egocentric constructs. |
|
|
|
salvation
19 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2007 : 05:14:31 AM
|
Hi anthem,
This spiritual concept is like a prinicipal of physics."an electron has both particle & wave nature"
motion in stillness-- every particle is made up of strings which are in continous motions but the world sees it still though at the macro level.
the pain & sufferings may sometimes be very critical for the spiritual growth.they may give enough courage or the passion to move on this path,which a normal person -(having some happiness) may hesitate to accept.
As far as the idea, "how far can we go with the physical bodies"---It is described in details about "spiritual powers" or "YogaSutras of Patanjali".
The dual things like good/bad,slow/fast are relative,not absolute.If the dual things now seem non-dual to you,it may indicate that you are going on the right path very fast.Because that is also one thing described there.
Any suggestions about this are welcomed. |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2007 : 11:24:17 AM
|
quote:
[Originally posted by salvation
br]Hi anthem,
This spiritual concept is like a prinicipal of physics."an electron has both particle & wave nature"
motion in stillness-- every particle is made up of strings which are in continous motions but the world sees it still though at the macro level.
Hi Salvation,
I like these analogies, I agree, it is really about how you look at it.
quote:
the pain & sufferings may sometimes be very critical for the spiritual growth they may give enough courage or the passion to move on this path,which a normal person -(having some happiness) may hesitate to accept.
I couldn't agree more, pain and suffering are very critical for spiritual growth and contain great pointers to our freedom if we are willing to look deep into our discomfort to find the truth.
quote:
As far as the idea, "how far can we go with the physical bodies"---It is described in details about "spiritual powers" or "YogaSutras of Patanjali".
I've read Pantajali's work many times and love the insights he articulates so well. As far as spiritual powers go they seem interesting, but I would trade them all in a second for liberation from suffering and always being fully aware in the here and now! quote:
The dual things like good/bad,slow/fast are relative,not absolute. If the dual things now seem non-dual to you, it may indicate that you are going on the right path very fast. Because that is also one thing described there.
Any suggestions about this are welcomed.
I couldn't claim that all things that I experience in life seem non-dual to me, I enjoy the gift of this duality (though not always at first!). Certainly more and more as I go along, I am seeing the gifts and the positive in everything that I encounter, so perceptions become non-dual in that you realize everything is somehow good.
I know that in every pain I feel, there is an invitation to freedom hidden underneath. As soon as I notice a “disconnect” between my emotional reaction to an experience, I know there is a corresponding thought that exists in my mind somewhere which has me convinced it shouldn't be this way. When I look closely at every situation in my life, I see that life happens the way it happens and I have a choice on how I react to it. I can choose to rebel against what I don't like and have an emotional tantrum about how it should have been the way I wanted or I can see how what happens is actually a great benefit to me even when it isn't obvious at first.
“Life doesn’t happen to you, life happens for you”
Byron Katie
|
|
|
|
Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2007 : 2:55:54 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Maximus
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
The other curiosity I have been pondering is how the dual world is starting to become increasingly non-dual for me. Everything is
positive, even what I once thought of as negative. I know this will probably offend the sensibilities of many forum members as they look around the world and see so much pain and suffering, but to me the pain and suffering is critical for realization and growth.
Yeah it offends me. I'm a toddler in Yoga but I think that Yoga is useless if it makes you just accept negative things and not do something about it. Yoga is only good if, while it makes you remain happy in the midst of negative things, also pushes you into doing something about it. You can't witness a murder and not inform the police, that is. That would be highly undesirable.
Yoga and social action / responsibility are in no way mutually exclusive.
In fact, yoga helps us tap into the infinite power which allows us to be optimally effective in any socially-related endeavors.
And now, in an amazing feat of brevity (stand back, everyone ... and please ... don't try this at home ...) ... I, Kirtanman, he of the Sanskritical-thinking, yet consummately verbose posts ... shall now summarize and support my statement above with irrefutable evidence, which can also serve as the gateway to a lifetime of opportunity for learning how to engage in yoga-fueled social action in a near-perfect manner, in just TWO WORDS:
Mahatma.
Gandhi.
Peace, Namaste & Jai Satyagraha,
Kirtanman
PS - And I would leave it at that, but my head would explode. And that would be messy. So, Gandhi was a successful young attorney, a solid citizen in the empire of his Masters, the British invaders who had been raping his country for the better part of two centuries. Then, he had a spiritual awakening, and began practicing AYP (actually, Gandhi's yogic methods were very, very similar to AYP). My key point here, though, is: as a result of his intense Bhakti (devotion / desire for That Which is Better-Home-Unity-God), Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi began practicing yoga in his mid-thirties.
The rest is literally history; some of the most powerful and inspirational history in the .... well ... history ... of the world.
In a few short decades, Gandhi was the prime force in ridding his country of the foreign occupation which had caused unspeakable pain for millions of people, for nearly two centuries -- without a shot being fired. The British left India peacefully, and as Gandhi said, "We saw them off as friends".
At the time, Britain was the most powerful and extensive empire in the world, and militarily, India didn't exist (the British military was the military in India).
In today's terms, it would be as if a "modern Gandhi" got the United States to peacefully leave Hawaii.
There was also a Baptist preacher, name of King (Martin, Luther) - who modeled his social justice endeavors entirely on the teachings of Gandhi.
I would say that every Indian, and every African-American, could do well to offer M.K. Gandhi a genuine "Namaste" of gratitude, but that's not quite right.
I would say, rather, that every human could do well to offer M.K. Gandhi a genuine "Namaste" of gratitude - every one of us either has been positively influenced by Gandhi ... or has the opportunity to be.
And that, my friends (in my humble opinion, of course) ... is just one example of how well yoga and social action can mix.
As I summed up my statement in two words (before the PS .... ) - so did Mahatma Gandhi: "Aham Yogi" - Sanskrit for "I am Unity".
PPS - I don't know about you, but it does my heart good to remember / realize anew that the most powerful empire in the entire history of the world up to that point ... was no match whatsoever for the infinite power of Unconditional Love.
That infinite power is ever present, ever available ... and ever Loving.
Yoga is simply the toolset of practices and "awarenesses", which allows us to tap into Infinite Love, and to know that Love in Reality as ... our ... Self.
Jai Ayam!
|
Edited by - Kirtanman on May 23 2007 2:58:15 PM |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Non dual duality?
