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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
 Posted - May 02 2007 : 4:40:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Blue Opal
Sharks have always been here, well at least for a long time, but I wouldn't like to be eaten by one.
Fire has been here since the beginning of time, but I would not like to get burnt.
God put a lot into fashioning Bin Laden's mind, but I would not like to date him.
If I could choose between a normal life, and a life of occasional highs interspersed with psychotic episodes, I know which one I'd choose.
Nothing is innately bad. Some people are just idiots.
Not only was that an incredibly poor comparison, but also inappropriately judgmental.
Fact is, if not for drugs there would be a lot less American followers of Eastern traditions.
And your ancient Vedic idols were partaking in Soma, which is believed to be modern day Amanita mushrooms. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2007 : 11:44:34 AM
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I don't subscribe either to the reasoning that things like marijuana are 'good' because they are natural. But likewise, I don't subscribe either to the reasoning that they are 'bad' because they are not natural to the body. A specious concept of 'natural' can be used by opposing sides in this always-emotionally-charged debate, each side spotting the error in the other !
I agree with Anthony insofar as I believe they should be judged on their actual merits. I would also say only on their actual merits -- no notions of 'natural' or 'unnatural' should bias or prejudice us towards or against them.
'Natural/unnatural' can be a useful first-order distinction. But I believe it is only good in a first-order way and should immediately be trumped by rational cost-benefit-risk considerations.
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2007 : 12:27:38 PM
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| Yes. It is a mistake I think to condemn all entheogens given thier amazing results in research if one were to take the time to read about them.I think it's all about circumstance. |
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hopeless meditator
United Kingdom
38 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2007 : 12:59:21 PM
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fmsnyder,
Is there a way of restoring the integrity of the spiritual body, and repairing damage to the aura?
The other question that arises is:- why do we seek drugs in the first place? I assume that if we are balanced, and in harmony with the forces of life, then mind-altering substances would not interest us. But I suspect my assumption is flawed in some way. I think my second question really is:- why is it so difficult to live in harmony with other beings and the Life Force?
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2007 : 2:08:51 PM
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Hello H.M.
why do we seek drugs in the first place? I assume that if we are balanced, and in harmony with the forces of life, then mind-altering substances would not interest us.
I think most agree that drugs are not needed for spiritual progress, or for living a balanced and harmonious life, and that most people are not interested in them either. However, some like to experiment with them, and that's their free choice. There are of course drugs that can have beneficial effects under certain conditions, and they can sometimes aid in spiritual progress. But, since drugs can cause severe addictions and other problems in life, I think it's important not to advertise uneducated drug use in general as something beneficial.
why is it so difficult to live in harmony with other beings and the Life Force?
I think it has to do with the ego, or sense of separation, of being an organism that is completely separate from other life. It has a lot to do with identification with the physical body, that we are the physical body instead of it being a temporary instrument that we are using. If we would instead identify more with our consciousness we would see that we have a lot in common with other life. |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2007 : 10:19:52 AM
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| It is an interesting anthropological concept that humans and some animals have always sought out altered states of mind as if it is innate or instinctive. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2007 : 12:08:16 PM
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Anthony said:
It is an interesting anthropological concept that humans and some animals have always sought out altered states of mind as if it is innate or instinctive.
Yes, and indeed, so many things we do which aren't working for a specific material end, are actually in some sense a search for an altered state of mind. Any kind of recreation, or self-development, is arguably a case of looking for an altered state of mind -- doing yoga, watching a movie, taking a walk, reading a book, going to church, even going to a bar and having a drink.
By and large we are looking for altered states of mind for good reasons -- we are searching for something our mind-body needs. This does not mean that we all look in the right places. And indeed, there are good reasons to be careful about where we search for such things.
Cultures produce strong, often unreasoned prohibitions against certain activities that don't need such general prohibitions. These are 'taboos'. Taboo has its uses, but not if you've got something better to base your choices on.
When I started to do yoga, to meditate, my parents reacted with a taboo mentality against that. Regarding mild drugs, the Western world reacts generally with a taboo mentality.
Cost-risk-benefit consideration is, as far as I am concerned, THE way to proceed in evaluating these things. Natural/Unnatural, Holy, Unholy -- these come from the pre-rational place of 'taboo', and are always culturally-relative. Taboo-based debates are not helpful -- lots of heat but no light comes from them.
If the debate is shifted to cost-risk-benefit considerations, the participants already have one enormous thing in common -- namely, that very matter of evaluating from a cost-risk-benefit perspective.
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Nirodha
New Zealand
86 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2007 : 2:59:07 PM
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I smoked tons of the stuff in my late teens and early 20's. And, what I received from it wasn't all bad - although I did waste a lot of time because of it. However, it wasn't all good either - the general lethargy and clouded thinking was annoying.
Now that I'm in my 40's I rarely touch the stuff. And, when I do, I usually regret it as I've found I enjoy being straight.
Entheogens and other psychoactive substances do have their purposes. But, just like anything, they can be overused and abused.
Peace,
Nirodha |
Edited by - Nirodha on May 05 2007 12:53:08 AM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 02:37:19 AM
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Hi all. I ran across a paragraph in an article that pertains to this discussion at http://www.nonduality.com/pieter11.htm. The entire article is rather interesting. Here's the part about the ganga:
One of the most insidious drugs that Yogi Bhajan warned against was the use of marijuana, hashish, HTC. This is because the effect of marijuana is to charge the brain area with some sense of euphoria, but the mechanism in the body that pumps the sexual fluids into the bloodstream, so that the effected nerves and brain cells can carry that charge, is inhibited by the drug. Thus, the result of ingesting or smoking the drug was that over time, as the charge to the brain was not supported by the flow of sexual fluids through the blood steam to those areas, the brain would progressively burn out. Initially, the memory would suffer and gradually the effect would move forward to the frontal lobs of the brain converting the drug user to a vegetable. As this was a widespread phenomenon in India and other areas, where the seemingly meditative sadhu, oblivious to the world, was in fact completely vegetative, it was a matter that about which Yogi Bhajan was very adamant.
Peace,
Alan |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2007 : 11:21:16 AM
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| Well, everyone knows that there are bad effects of long-term heavy use. I am of the type that may partake in a very low dose once a month at the maximum...but ever since AYP I have completely abstained...although I am feeling a certain lack of progress and often long for the spirituality and connectedness I feel with marijuana in comparison to the nothing I feel with AYP at this point, but I try to have faith that it will happen eventually. |
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Lancer Wolf
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2007 : 09:05:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by fmsnyder
Yes Cannabis is addictive and destructive not only to the body but to your spiritual anatomy. Marijuana clouds the brain and inhibits the flow of light in the brain cells themselves and it can take years to restore the purity of your mind. Plus it attracts destructive and vicious astral entities who feed off the light in your aura and chakras when you partake of such substances.
Ok what? I'm a bit perplexed regarding the astral entities portion of your statement above. Smoking pot attracts parasitic astral entities? Forgive my ignorance but that's a new one on me. Where did you receive this information? Please enlighten me, I'd love to know more about this issue and if in fact it's actually true or a mere fantasy concocted to keep people from smoking pot.  |
Edited by - Lancer Wolf on Aug 18 2007 09:12:54 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2007 : 09:36:27 AM
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A few weeks ago I was with some friends who were getting high, and I decided to take a few hits...haven't done that in many years, and they told me that it was really good pot, so I thought I'd be adventurous. It wasn't a pleasant thing for me at all, but that's not my point - the weird thing was that all night long, I kept being woken up by a loud CLICK in the back of my skull. :( It freaked me out! I'd just start to drift off, then CLICK! As loud as snapping fingers in your ear. Was it a Parasitic Astral Entity? Sure, why not. It'll be a long time before I go there again. If I want to get high I think I'll do some caffeine.
BTW, welcome to AYP, Lancer Wolf. |
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Hannah
38 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2007 : 6:31:11 PM
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I am currently playing around with some energy techniques using the meridians and chakra points while being tested simultaneously. I smoked a little and they said my left and right brain hemispheres were not communicating. Other than what is already known about marijuana, I have to admit I was impressed that just a little high was picked up on the scan.  I won't be doing that again! |
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Lancer Wolf
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 03:24:48 AM
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| Thanks for the welcome Meg. I've been smoking marijuana for years and I'm at that stage where I know it's better to give it up and I want to yet I tend to drift back to it time and again. It frightens me that I can be so attached to something and obviously I'm having difficulty in completely giving up the sweet cheeba. Reading the negative astral entities post and their connection to pot really piqued my interest. Anyone else out there able to shed some light on this marijuana/astral situation? |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 05:31:17 AM
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The click in the back of your skull happens to me all the time because i smoke pot. There are other things like heat in the brain and tremendous pressure in the head.
Last night it was so bad as i lay in bed trying to sleep that i am easily going to stop smoking it now. It isn't worth it.
I have no idea about astral entities etc but no matter the explanation it just isn't worth smoking that stuff. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 08:12:59 AM
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Gumpi - what do you think the clicking is? I used to smoke pot when I was in high school/college, and I don't remember that experience.
Lancer Wolf - I listened to something recently about addiction. It was a new agey kind of thing, but it made sense. When a person is addicted to something that they know is unhealthy for them and they want to quit, so much attention is brought to the negative aspect that it deepens the obsession. The tendency is to judge yourself negatively for the desire to ___________. If you can begin to let go of that judgment toward yourself, and recognize that this is just a temporary fascination that too will pass, then you can start to relax around it a little. Your desire to quit smoking is probably stronger than your desire was to start it years ago, right? Which indicates that you have it in you to easily let it go, but the first step is to let go of the self judgment and tendency to obsess. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 10:13:10 AM
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If you just can't keep away from it, you can still gain some control of when and how much. When you find yourself wanting it, make yourself wait a little longer, maybe an hour, then make yourself do a little less than you normally would. Keep a record of this, and you should be able to gain control.
If you slip up, just return to control and keeping the record.
Try to increase the time you wait and the dose reduction each time. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 3:10:42 PM
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Meg, i believe it has something to do with the right vagus nerve which is a nerve that connects the medulla to the heart. Kundalini has been postulated as the right vagus nerve.
Because pot can cause heart palpitation in certain people, i believe your heart is sending a signal to your medulla in your back head region, and this is making a "click" sensation.
Other than that, i have no idea! |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 4:29:20 PM
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Thanks, Gumpi. I googled 'vagus nerve', and found this interesting aside:
"Vagus nerve stimulation (VNS) therapy using a pacemaker-like device implanted in the chest is a treatment used since 1997 to control seizures in epilepsy patients and has recently been approved for treating drug-resistant cases of clinical depression [...] A degree of intermittent VNS can be achieved by daily breathing exercises (for example, Pranayama) over a period of several weeks. In some patients, such proactive relaxation exercises have been found to correlate with lower blood pressure and lower heart rate and more stable moods." (Wikipedia) |
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Lancer Wolf
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 11:18:59 PM
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| Thanks for the words of support Meg and Ether. If it makes you feel any better, Meg, I also sometimes experience a faint clicking at the back of my skull but never really paid much attention to it until I read your post about it; although I only tend to notice it as I lay down and go to sleep. Perhaps many more people experience these clicking symptoms than we realize but simply dismiss it as I have until the subject is brought up. |
Edited by - Lancer Wolf on Aug 19 2007 11:48:52 PM |
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Eitherway
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2007 : 5:56:04 PM
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Hi all!
Interesting discussion with understandably concrete views from both frequent users as well as from those on the opposite end of the spectrum. Nice to find a lot of supportive people that don't resort to quick answers as well.
I think it might be helpful to list things that most smokers will agree with because often people opposed (both private/gov agencies) will use these to vilify the substance beyond need.
1) Best to wait (as with most psychoactive substances) till personality and brain development have reached a certain stage of maturity. Non-specific on purpose because of natural variance but maybe 18-23 years for most.
2) Remember Set and Setting are of paramount importance. Not a good idea to use when going through tough times because risk of dependency/adverse reactions are much greater as self medication could become an issue. Never imbibe when you don't feel like it (i.e, resist peer pressure). Never drive or put yourself in situations where there is a lot of responsibility on your shoulders.
3) Most people have reflexive comments about psychoactive substances and fail to understand cultural and personal background that can largely decide the perception of experience. Smoking amongst friends at a musical event or with the intent of using it as a spiritual aide is definitely different than unexamined use. Also the amount smoked is a big big big factor when these discussions arise. The range of reactions ofcourse can vary from a calm centered euphoria which might be conducive to opening up and talking out issues to being "stoned" and unable to follow the plot of a comedy.
4) Try not to mix substances because that is definitely more unpredictable.
I have personally used weed (90% very light doses - one blunt would be used in 3-4 sessions) and did thoroughly enjoy the change in consciousness. Music, art, conversation, sex, nature, and spirituality were looked at from a completely different view and were much more meaningful and enjoyable. Can be a real eye opener for those of us that are used to a routine in life.
The main reason I stopped using was because ayp is lovely!!! I felt a subtle high from the practices almost immediately ( enjoy music, etc.... more) and never looked back (about 4 months). I would not rule out using sparingly but just can't seem to convince myself that I would feel better than the practices alone.
The most important distinction in my mind is that as much as I enjoyed the high of weed, the same perceptions that it heightened for the better would be reflexively diminished upon stopping. The ayp practices are just the opposite!!! The world just keeps getting better and better (ofcourse some self-pacing is necessary and I've had a couple days of malaise here and there) and so I would recommend that smokers continue to meditate and decide after a few months. Most will have the decisions made for themselves and quit and others might be suited to a life of both or maybe only psychoactive substances.
love and peace |
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lorf
48 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2007 : 3:04:57 PM
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LancerWolf asked:
Reading the negative astral entities post and their connection to pot really piqued my interest. Anyone else out there able to shed some light on this marijuana/astral situation?
----
My theory is that each of these psychotropic plants carry a gateway to specific places in the astral realms. There is a temporary shift in awareness (permanent for heavy users) which has a quality determined by the type of drug. It is tempting to use the word frequency but "place" is more correct. When there is a shift in awareness it is like we show ourselves or become accessible to the beings that belong to that specific place. But I would not use the word "negative" they are just beings and if they are given attention they may or may not interfere in our lives. If they are not given attention it is like they do not exist.
One could say that doors are opened to astral realms by the smoke and it may take time to close them again.
/lorf
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2007 : 5:02:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
I am of the type that may partake in a very low dose once a month at the maximum...but ever since AYP I have completely abstained...
I confess, I've recently started experimenting with low doses:
http://www.marijuana-uses.com/brief/013.html
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2007 : 10:25:27 PM
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Well, I too indulge in the herbal sacrament on and off. Every time I try to stay away it just doesnt feel right at this point in time. I figure, if I am destined to follow along the path of yogis who eventually give up or retire entheogens in favor of full-time yoga then I am still in the experimental phase. They got to do it, why can't I!? But seriously, I always feel I have an auto-regulation system that tells me it is time to lay off for a while, and it just seems like a useful tool at this point in my life. Besides basically putting my on The Path (along with a couple LSD trips years ago) it is kind of a refresher every now and then. When I find myself in a slump or somewhat uncentered, it tends to reorient me and almost says "Hey! This is what you can be with the world all the time if you stick with yoga!" By that I do not mean that I do yoga because I want a perma-high, but some aspects of it for me resemble what I believe a yogic lifestyle will enable. Ever since doing AYP it also really puts me in touch with my breathing and subtle energy, which I do not get from yoga at this point (5-6 months) so it serves the purpose of reminding me that subtle energies ARE real and that breath is so fundmental to our being. It is one thing to believe these things...but early on it is difficult to FEEL these truths, and if marijuana gives me a helpful nudge every now and then, so be it :) The indoctrination and demonization of natural psychoactive compounds is really a sad thing because there is so much that can be learned and gained from intelligent and spiritual use of these substances...but the damage has already been done and is extremely difficult to undo. Even I still feel that inner voice saying "drugs are bad, drugs are bad!" but I know it is the D.A.R.E school counselor in the video I was subjected to all throughout school. They put the message in you early and it is incredibly difficult to shake the guilt trip of utilizing a flower that grows of the Earth...little different than a dandelion. The Rastafariana see its demonization as a true sign of Babylonian authority in that it is meant to obscure The Truth from the common man, and it is of little subtlety that mind-numbing substances reign free over man such as cigarettes and alcohol yet ANY substance labled as an entheogen with little to no practical potential for addiction or unsafe usage (that is IF it were common knowledge to use it intelligently like all cultures have before it was underground knowledge) remains strictly forbidden.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2007 : 11:01:55 PM
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A couple weeks ago I stayed up most of the night talking around a campfire with friends. One of them is an Aztec dancer who attends peyote ceremonies in Mexico. He said the natives who use it for religious purposes resent the white man for turning it into a "recreational drug", and making laws that interfere. He said it is not recreational.
It was given to us by God for healing. He said there are about 60 plants around the world that are "the same" as peyote. Their purpose is to heal, and they can heal anything except for a severed limb. He has personally seen it heal cancer, and blindness. He said used properly, peyote is not a hallucinogen. It connects you with what is real, not illusory. But it must be given the proper respect and pure intent.
He said there is a spirit in it, as there is in all things. Even rocks have spirit in them, and all things and all people are connected. |
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Cannabis
