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aditya
82 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 24 2006 : 1:51:01 PM
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Wise ones,
Wishes for a merry Christmas!
I have been meditating for a while now. I have seen few things when I get in mode. Sometimes (and mostly now) it is spiral - rotating circle. Even when I close my eyes for a few seconds I see a light source. I was discussing it with my cousin in UK, who is a doctor. He suggested I should go and check with a psychologist. I wish we had doctors in forum. Any doctor here who has seen it?
People keep suggesting that reject these visions - my understanding is that ignore is the word that probably is in their head when they suggest it. How else can we reject involuntary happenings? But this is only one part. Main point is what to look for in meditation? Hear sounds? Isn't that same as seeing visions? I read in laya yoga - listen to sounds - I am sure many of you would have heard humming sound in ears. I am confused what am I seeking in meditation? Or rather what is one supposed to seek in meditation?
P.S. Thanks Yogani for suggesting on opening Vishuddhi chakra - lights are much brighter and sounds are clearer. I know it will take a while to open it to get rid of congestion - I am working on it. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Jan 31 2007 08:19:39 AM |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2006 : 2:10:13 PM
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Hi Aditya:
Meditation is not a seeking. It is a doing -- following a simple procedure. All seeking is outside meditation, and it has its place in our life. But not in meditation itself. The same is true for many of the sitting practices we do. We are not there to be analyzing what is happening in the practice -- anything can happen. Whatever happens, we are there to do the practice according to procedure. We can analyse and seek later, when practices are done, and be so much better at it by virture of the inner silence and ecstatic conductivity we have been cultivating.
When thoughts or other experiences come up in deep meditation, we just easily favor the procedure of meditation, which is easily favoring the mantra with comfort at whatever level our mind is at -- clear, or faint and fuzzy.
We don't deny our thoughts or experiences. We don't try and push them out, and we don't try to hang on to them either. They can be there, and we can still just easily favor the mantra over whatever is happening while we are meditating. Forcing is never part of the process. That is what deep meditation is. Then, after meditation, everything will be more clear.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2006 : 4:13:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aditya
Wise ones,
Wishes for a merry Christmas!
I have been meditating for a while now. I have seen few things when I get in mode. Sometimes (and mostly now) it is spiral - rotating circle. Even when I close my eyes for a few seconds I see a light source. I was discussing it with my cousin in UK, who is a doctor. He suggested I should go and check with a psychologist. I wish we had doctors in forum. Any doctor here who has seen it?
Hello & Namaste, Aditya - and Merry Christmas to you, as well!
I wanted to comment specifically on "your cousin, the doctor?" (in the U.S. it's kind of a cultural stereotype for a certain type of older lady to reference people this way, "My son, the doctor?" or "Your brother, the lawyer?" --- hence, "your cousin, the doctor?"  ).
With all sincere respect to your cousin, regardless of his area of specialty - excepting possibly neurology or psychiatry -- most Western-trained medical doctors tend to pathologize (diagnose as a problem) anything which falls outside of their worldview.
I have some friends in healthcare, ranging from chiropractors, to fully-trained medical doctors, including one gentleman who is a respected and successful psychiatrist (and has been for several decades, including teaching at an internationally respected university).
Sometimes, exact designations vary from country to country, so I'll clarify that in the U.S., "psychiatrist" is the highest level of training and career path available to a person, regarding the operation of the human mind, and in conjunction with it, the human brain.
A psychiatrist (again, in the U.S. - don't know if it's this way, globally) is a medical doctor (who has completed twelve-plus grueling years of training) who specializes in mind and brain, in the same way that a cardiologist is a medical doctor, who specializes in heart (matters).
A psychologist (in the U.S.) has a doctorate degree - but not a medical degree (which usually involves a minimum of a couple of years additional schooling, not counting specialty training or internship or medical residency).
Psychiatrists can perform surgery and prescribe medicine (extremely powerful medicine, in some cases) -- and psychologists are authorized to do neither.
My point being:
"Psychiatrist beats Psychologist"  by a fair amount, when it comes down to the place of meditative visions on the ICM (International Craziness Meter) ).
And, as you may be aware, any doctor is first and foremost a healer ("First, do no harm" are the very first words of the Hippocratic Oath, which every physician in the U.S. takes, prior to receiving their authorization to work in the medical field) - but (supposedly) - "second and nextmost" a scientist - literally - it's why that field is known as "medical science".
So, having said all that - my friend, the psychiatrist?
(And yes, he is the same highly-experienced individual, referenced above.)
I talk with him regularly about my meditative experiences (and no, I'm not lying down on a couch, when I do this! ) - mostly because I know he has a lot of insight on what might be happening within the bodymind (specifically brain-mind) system, and he, in turn is interested in my experiences, because I've gone the farthest in meditation and yoga practices of anyone that he knows, in terms of the effects described in yogic literature (which go far beyond seeing some lights -- by a rather significant amount).
(Some of my experiences are documented below - please see Chapter III of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras for details on the overall "map" of what a yogic sadhaka can potentially experience, if interested - other Yoga Sutra chapters mention/cover these things as well, but Chapter III offers the main overview.)
Just last week, I was talking with him (my friend, the doctor?) about how the seeing of my entire astral body has become much more pronounced over the last couple of months - kind of like a "ghost body" that I can see with my eyes closed - and that I specifically have noticed a major increase in brightness in the chakras in my hands and feet.
He asked me what color they (hand-foot chakras) are (non-colored, in my case - "like light-bulb light emanating from the palms of my hands" is the way I described them).
I've also discussed with him the levels of extreme brightness I get in my head at certain points in yogic practices (the "million suns" referred to in the yogic literature, I imagine), along with the unspeakable ecstasy which usually appears in tandem with the bright light.
I've also talked with him about the mysterious secretions which drip down into my mouth, kechari mudra (sticking my tongue up my nose from the inside ... ), "third eye" visions, astral sounds (chimes, wind, birds, AUM vibration) and visions, feeling mantras (and the correct pronunciation or lack thereof) throughout my body, aspects of third-eye opening (colors more distinct, sense of traveling through a tunnel, etc.) and so on.
At no point in these conversations has he made discreet phone calls which resulted in the appearance of large young men in white coats, whose intention it was to transport me to a secure facility, wherein I could be "cured" (presumably via the "rational" methods of powerful antipsychotic medications, possibly electroshock therapy, etc. ...)
Because, as shocking as it may seem (and no, I don't believe he knows how to find this forum ... yet ... ) - I believe the "good doctor" actually perceives me as relatively well-adjusted.
So, I just wanted to pass all that along, as a sort of "second opinion".
Doctors who are willing to be open-minded, understand that subjective phenomena (such as seeing lights in meditation) which are outside of the normal medical "purview", happen to people all over the world.
The true scientific attitude is to observe, note and evaluate.
Medical, psychological and/or psychiatric level concerns (should) only arise if there is an indication of genuine lack of health, in connection.
For instance, if you said to your cousin, "I'm seeing strange lights when I meditate" (and you had no awareness that this is a common situation for yogic meditators) - and especially if you indicated concern - he might rightfully refer you to a neurologist or even an opthamologist - but even at that stage (and especially per your conversation with him, which presumably didn't position the lights you see as a problem (?)) -- I'm not sure why he would think you have a psychological issue -- or what a psychologist might do about it (a randomly-selected psychologist will likely be as unfamiliar with meditative lights as anyone else).
The only time psychology comes into play, is when the unusual events (seeing lights in meditation) are interpreted by the experiencer ("this would be you" ) in a way which indicates to others that there may be some psychological pathology (i.e. "I see lights in meditation, and therefore I am God, and the new Queen of Great Britain!", "I see lights in meditation, and they're telling me you need to close out your bank account, and give the cash to me" .... "like that". )
Most of us (and if I'm free from this at all, it's "barely", and only in the last few years) tend to put almost all our authority in the hands of the socially-established authorities and experts - which includes doctors, almost everywhere. In certain countries in Asia and South Asia, things like energy healing - and therefore subjective patient experiences - are treated with a lot more respect than they are in the West - because those healing modalities have been shown to work --- for millennia.
One of the reasons I go into all this detail (especially after shorter posts have been requested ... ) - is that this type of situation (medically professional indicating that our meditative / yogic experiences might indicate a mental or medical problem) could conceivably happen to almost any of us.
The guru is in us -- and it's important to remember that when talking with doctors, as well.
I could easily have interpreted some of my recent experiences as being indicative of neurological pathology of some sort (as in "Lights!! Ahhhh! I have a brain tumor!! Ahhhh!") - and the local medical community would have been only too happy to plug me into the "system" to investigate the possibility. (Several thousand dollars worth of MRIs, PETs and other tests, later) - "Mr. Man? Mr. Kirtan Man? Yes, well - you don't have a brain tumor, so we're referring you to a psychiatrist. He may be able to help you with the compulsion to chant in Sanskrit, as well ...")
And honestly, Aditya - per what I wrote above, and much of the general dialog here in the Forum -- there's at least a 50/50 chance that you will experience much more than a few lights, while doing your practices, as time progresses.
The two main things you can do to feel okay about them are:
1. "Check in" with yourself - does anything really feel abnormal, or does the experience feel like it's simply an effect of your practices? I believe you'll find that your own inner knowing will provide your answer.
2. Check in with "yogic experience" - I'd recommend this Forum first and foremost, because you have direct access to Yogani, and to those of us who've been experiencing these types of effects for a long time - and because this is one of the only public forums I know of, where these types of effects are discussed rationally, and as part of day-to-day practice-related dialog (not every yogic group or lineage does practices which produce these types of results - or, they keep them secret, and closely 1:1 monitored between guru and disciple, for the most part). If there are any other online groups that are "on par" with AYP, I'm not familiar with them.
"2a." - You can check in with respected yogic literature, as well - Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, etc. -- which may not cover your specific experiences, but should help to highlight that the types of things you're beginning to experience are well with the bounds of what is considered "yogically normal" -- and has been considered normal, for thousands of years - at least.
Hope that helps!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Dec 24 2006 8:19:45 PM |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2006 : 6:04:06 PM
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Thanks Yogani - that is helpful.
Kirtanman - keep coming - I enjoy your posts. Even if topic won't interest me - I still read it if you are there.
P.S. That was error in putting exact words - his actual words were - "get your brain checked - I see smoke coming out of your head."  That would have been too much to put in first post. Oh yeah - we are cousins in all earthly ways - west, east, Indian, American, Nordic, British, Oriental, (for each of these in biological, social ways) ...
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Christi
United Kingdom
4375 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2006 : 9:57:49 PM
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Hi Aditya,
Merry Christmas
I thought you might find this interesting, in terms of seeing lights etc.:
quote:
Bindu is beyond the senses and thoughts: It is very important to understand that the actual Bindu is far beyond the senses and thoughts in the conventional sense of thinking processes involving strings of words, images, or other such impressions. This means transcending not only the senses as operating through the physical organs, but also the inner or mental experience of sensation. For example, one not only closes the eyes, but also goes beyond all manner of inner visualization. When attention on all of the Gross and Subtle objects and processes collapses, so to speak, and thus, moves inward towards the Bindu, there is a convergence on a point, which is the finer meaning of one-pointedness of mind. There may be an extremely intense awareness of the nature of pure sound and light, but this is very different from what we experience by mental visualization or imagination. The journey to the Bindu starts to become the experience of the source of light (Jyotir Bindu / Tejo Bindu) and the source of sound (Nada Bindu), as well as being the source out of which other sensation, mental processes, and the instruments of mentation emerge.
It is from this link:
http://www.swamij.com/bindu.htm
posted by Vil on another thread.
Christi
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Moderator note: A discussion on "Light and Sound Meditations" was split from this topic and continues here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=6044
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2006 : 12:22:55 AM
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| Awesome Christi - thanks for the link. One thing I noticed - all Gurus including Yogani are very good in explaining things - they can explain what you feel better than what you can put in words. Is this coincidence or do they have a sixth sense? |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2006 : 5:15:26 PM
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Hi Aditya,
The reason ones of higher levels are good at explaining I believe is because one is educated by inner guidance.Very often one gets answers from within that they have no previous knowledge of.You might call this intuition.
L&L
Dave |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2006 : 12:03:48 PM
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Hi Aditya,
The only shortcut I can advise is regular practice.I don't think it is possible to know how long it takes for any individual as we are all different and at different stages.There are many things which affect our progress such as previous lives and previous practices.My background started in martial arts many years ago which I found was a good platform to leap from when I started serious meditation practices.Certainly i would say that nothing is wasted even if it is not directly linked to yogic practices, even physical exercise will have an effect on our energy circuits no matter what the sport or exercise is.I am not familiar with the exercise you have mentioned but will endeavour to find it.
L&L
Dave |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2006 : 4:20:50 PM
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Hi Aditya,
Having briefly read the article you spoke of I have the following comments although they are my point of view.There is a lot of information on many web sites including swamiji's and AYP and many people are thankful for the knowledge.A lot of the knowledge is unnecessary as an aid to actually doing the practices but many wish to have background information.I personally don't study the scriptures as to do so would seriously infringe on my practice times and being able to recite scriptures is not going to give me enlightenment.Doing the practices may do.Many people pad information as an aid to inducing to believe they are getting something that nobody else can give them.I am not talking about the sites just mentioned.Meditation is not difficult and anyone with expereince of meditation can teach others a simple meditation using the breath in about 10 minutes or less which will give results immediately.There is no great mystery there.Meditation is relatively easy compared to many other practices but as we know that is not the end of the story.The difficult part on this path is various including commitment to daily practice andusing effort to change ones mindset.When I practiced Tai Chi my teacher commented to others that it was the most difficult thing he had ever practiced(he also teaches Karate, kick boxing, and is involved in many therapies)and asked my opinion.I agreed that it was challenging but not as difficult as this path.When asked why I explained that meditation is easy but to have no ill thoughts,words or actions against others for every waking moment is the most difficult thing I have practiced.Just as we don't need the newest car with all the latest gadgets, we don't need further complications.Once one learns the techniques of practice, one ONLY needs commitment,faith in the system and belief that God will lead you there.Oh is that all? LOL.
L&L
Dave
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Edited by - riptiz on Dec 28 2006 6:54:31 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2006 : 4:43:48 PM
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Pardon me for butting in. A lot of helpful information there Dave, thanks.
-Alan |
Edited by - Balance on Dec 28 2006 4:45:15 PM |
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What to watch?
