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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 25 2006 : 3:47:20 PM
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Moderator note: Topic split from here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1847#14835
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Hi Aditya,
I forgot to mention, there is a form of meditation called the "light and sound" meditation. It is practiced in many places throughout India by both Yogis and Buddhists. It is also popular in China and some of it's neighbours and is practiced by followers of the Quan-Yin tradition. In it they deliberately look for a light in the front field of vision, and listen to the natural sound of creation ringing in the mind. As far as I can tell, this is the basis of the meditation, so these two things are the "objects of meditation" in the same way that the mantra is the object of meditation in AYP. But here we are not practicing the "light and sound" meditation, so we don't look for anything, or deliberately try to listen to anything in meditation as Yogani has already said. I think it is safe to say that the "Light and Sound" meditation is an advanced practice, is powerful, and is potentially dangerous. I am guessing this as you would expect someone practicing it would be opening up centres in their head, rather than developing a balanced opening of the chakras, and the ajna chakra in particular could be opened too soon. The practitioner could be blinded by the Light of ten thousand suns. This form of meditation (the Light and Sound meditation) seems to be particularly shrouded in secrecy, initiates typically going through lengthy initiation procedures (lasting for months or years) and taking vows of silence before being taught the "highly secret" meditation procedure. I am not saying any of this to scare you, only to try and point out that there are IMO very good reasons why Yogani teaches the meditation procedure that he does, and why it is a really good idea to follow it. Health and safety reasons as they say in my country. Don't forget, Gopi Krishna (I think that was his name) heard that it was a good idea to meditate every morning by visualizing a shining lotus flower in full bloom on the top of his head. So he did it. Things went horribly wrong, for many years. The meditation was a great idea, it's just that he wasn't nearly ready for it. He hadn't done the years of preliminary practices necessary before such a meditation could be useful to a meditator.
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One thing I noticed - all Gurus including Yogani are very good in explaining things - they can explain what you feel better than what you can put in words. Is this coincidence or do they have a sixth sense?
Maybe they know us better than we know ourselves? Just an idea .
Christi
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2006 : 09:40:55 AM
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Thanks Christi - I would like to read more about it - do you have any links?
Dave - I got your point. For average individuals - how long will it take to develope guidance? Is there any easy short-cut - like Guru Chakra as SwamiJ mentioned in his article on Bindu? (or am I trying to read too much in between lines?) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2006 : 6:21:24 PM
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Hi Aditya,
quote:
Thanks Christi - I would like to read more about it - do you have any links?
(Disclaimer: I'm not recommending these practices, this is posted for information only)
(If anyone under 18 is reading this, please look away now).
Try here:
http://www.csp.org/practices/entheo...ic_yoga.html
Half way down the page are the light and sound meditations.
It is actually a page advising people who are taking some pretty strong halucenogenic substances, on how to make that trip go a little bit deeper spiritually!
Oh my God!  As far as I can see, that is like blow your brains out stuff! But hey, maybe it works for some? Who am I to judge? I haven't actually tried taking class A's and entering the divine light whilst opening myself fully to the vibration of the sound of all creation . What have I been doing with my life? Good question! .
Getting info on people who are doing this meditation as a purely spiritual practice is somewhat harder. You can't just click on a web page, as it's all shroud in secrecy as I said above. I have reason to believe that it is being taught to absolute beginners, as a stand alone spiritual practice, leading the practitioner all the way to full enlightenment. I believe it is being taught in yogic schools in southern India, and in meditation schools in China and Korea. In southern India, I believe, Yogis are living in silence and doing this meditation for up to ten hours a day. The light is the star, mentioned in AYP as you know, and the sound is the OM vibration. These are two aspects of the divine.
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The inner Light, the Light of God, is the same Light referred to in the word "enlightenment". Its intensity can range from a subtle glow to the brilliance of many millions of suns. It is through the inner Light and Sound that we come to know God.
Of course, when someone is ready, I don't see any reason not to practice this kind of meditation. The problem of course is, how do you know when you are ready? I think it is much more simple to follow Yogani’s advice, and not look for anything in meditation. Then it is easy.
If anyone finds any info on these schools, and what they are teaching, I'd love to know. You see, I can't work out why people aren't blowing fuses all over the place, and ending up in mental institutions.
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I read in laya yoga - listen to sounds - I am sure many of you would have heard humming sound in ears. I am confused what am I seeking in meditation?
I hear the humming sound constantly, but not really in my ears, more in the centre of the back of my head (it moves). But again, in meditation, I don't listen to it, I just favour the mantra.
I also see the light, and I favour the mantra.
Hope this helps.
Christi
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2009 : 08:00:09 AM
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Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement, with this recent post added:
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quote:
Gumpi wrote:
Christi,
Inner light and sound meditation seem to be in many traditions. There is the Asian woman you mentioned who learnt from a radha soami master. There are the radha soami path, which is "sant mat" which is Eckankar, Elan Vital (see ex-premie.org) and Paramahansa Yogananda's Self Realization Fellowship (which teaches light and sound along with kriya yoga, or spinal breathing).
So you have tons of info on the internet relating to all these movements or paths. It seems Yogananada's master knew some of the Radha Soami people and must have passed on this knowledge to him. Someone in the kriya yoga world wrote in a book that Yogananda was attracted to the light mostly, whereas the Radha Soami people consider the sound (OM) the most important. They say that you have to penetrate the light and the sound is the only thing that can take you higher from then on.
It seems to me that there is a lot of misunderstanding going on between some of these yoga schools in that with Eckankar you have emphasis on Out of Body Experiences mainly and the other schools just teach the light and sound. it is all very confusing.
Anyway, the teaching is that God is light and sound and you are supposed to penetrate the light to enter samadhi. Samadhi is the goal of yoga right? This is clearly at odds with Yogani's teaching concerning scenery, since with light there is a goal.
I'm not saying Yogani is wrong, as i think that all experiences happen unexpectedly and are not in our conscious control.
Also, samyama in AYP is not the same as Patanjali.
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Edited by - AYPforum on Jul 29 2009 09:39:05 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2009 : 09:34:15 AM
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quote:
Christi,
Inner light and sound meditation seem to be in many traditions. There is the Asian woman you mentioned who learnt from a radha soami master. There are the radha soami path, which is "sant mat" which is Eckankar, Elan Vital (see ex-premie.org) and Paramahansa Yogananda's Self Realization Fellowship (which teaches light and sound along with kriya yoga, or spinal breathing).
So you have tons of info on the internet relating to all these movements or paths. It seems Yogananada's master knew some of the Radha Soami people and must have passed on this knowledge to him. Someone in the kriya yoga world wrote in a book that Yogananda was attracted to the light mostly, whereas the Radha Soami people consider the sound (OM) the most important. They say that you have to penetrate the light and the sound is the only thing that can take you higher from then on.
It seems to me that there is a lot of misunderstanding going on between some of these yoga schools in that with Eckankar you have emphasis on Out of Body Experiences mainly and the other schools just teach the light and sound. it is all very confusing.
Anyway, the teaching is that God is light and sound and you are supposed to penetrate the light to enter samadhi. Samadhi is the goal of yoga right? This is clearly at odds with Yogani's teaching concerning scenery, since with light there is a goal.
I'm not saying Yogani is wrong, as i think that all experiences happen unexpectedly and are not in our conscious control.
Also, samyama in AYP is not the same as Patanjali.
Hi Gumpi,
Thanks for that interesting post.
As the Internet expands, more information on spiritual practices is coming to light all the time. A few years ago it was much harder to find information on esoteric practices than it is today. And we are adding to the knowledgebase all the time.
Different schools of yoga do put emphasis on different things... I don't think you need to let that confuse you. Just concentrate on one path, and stick to it. If you spend your time constantly trying to find fault, or discord between one school of yoga and another, this will take energy away from your spiritual path.
Samadhi is not the goal of yoga. Yoga is the goal of yoga, and it is an unending and forever glorifying journey. Samadhi is an aspect of the path, and one which is indispensable, but not a goal in itself.
The reason that the light and sound meditations are not part of the AYP system is that they are not aspects of consciousness which are always available as meditation objects. They come and go. So Yogani has deliberately left them out in order to focus on practices which are always readily available to everyone.
I hope that helps.
Christi |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2009 : 11:30:58 AM
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Christi,
I think you are right about swapping paths etc.
What i want to ask you is, i feel my guru is Paramahansa Yogananda and his meditation is So ham with the breath. What i found when i practiced this was that my breathing was automatically suspending on the exhale (which is the goal in lots of ways of the SRF path) but when this happened i had nothing to concentrate on in my mind. That was where i found Deep Meditation useful. So if i am going to stick to SRF techniques, what would you recommend i focus on when my breathing pauses?
Secondly, it is true that spiritual experiences come and go i reckon but what i would ask you now is, since SRF concentrates on the light and sound manisfestations and believes these are of utmost importance, could it not be your lack of experience with the light that prompts you to say it comes and goes, and not trying to hold the light and pass through it which is the real way forward?
Finally, the goal of yoga is yoga as you said, which, according to Patanjali, is cessation of the fluctuations of the chitta, which is identical to samadhi. So yoga or samadhi - whichever way round works. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2009 : 9:29:03 PM
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quote:
What i want to ask you is, i feel my guru is Paramahansa Yogananda and his meditation is So ham with the breath. What i found when i practiced this was that my breathing was automatically suspending on the exhale (which is the goal in lots of ways of the SRF path) but when this happened i had nothing to concentrate on in my mind. That was where i found Deep Meditation useful. So if i am going to stick to SRF techniques, what would you recommend i focus on when my breathing pauses?
Hi Gumpi,
I have never practiced under SRF, so I can't comment on this. Maybe someone else here knows, or you could contact SRF directly. As you know, in AYP we don't have that problem.
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Secondly, it is true that spiritual experiences come and go i reckon but what i would ask you now is, since SRF concentrates on the light and sound manisfestations and believes these are of utmost importance, could it not be your lack of experience with the light that prompts you to say it comes and goes
On the contrary, I would say it is my experience with the light that prompts me to say it comes and goes.
quote:
Finally, the goal of yoga is yoga as you said, which, according to Patanjali, is cessation of the fluctuations of the chitta, which is identical to samadhi. So yoga or samadhi - whichever way round works.
The Buddha once said... "Those who frequently abide in samadhi will slide gently into enlightenment, just as the Ganges river slides gently into the ocean."
Why not try it, and see if he was right? 
Christi |
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2009 : 3:42:49 PM
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i practice surat shabda yoga or radhaswami, meditation on the inner sounds heard in the brain/forehead. no work in the spine, ever. the highest goal of yoga is samadhi and being constantly absorbed all day in nada/shabda is known as sahaj samadhi or effortless samadhi. i hear the sounds whether sitting in a quiet room or walking about the house, there is no difference between moving around and "meditation", i obv prefer to be in a quiet room because its easier to hear and listen to the soundstreams. light is also seen at the forehead particularly blue and white light, but blue/indigo seems to be the most common, however i do not really ever focus on it that is called Drishti yoga or the yoga of inner visions.
samadhi just means union, in patanjali sutras he mentions many siddhis that can be gained. one is seeing lights and having visions of siddhas and another siddhi is being able to hear the ethereal music (nada/shabda). also other siddhis are included in his sutras, which ever path u are on will lead to siddha-hood (perfected yogi) of that particular lineage. masters of the light path merge in light and eventually become light, masters of sound are able to make their disciples hear the sounds without having much meditation time under their belts. if anyone knows Buddha Boy he says in one of his speeches that anyone who gets near him will hear the sounds of thunder and many other sounds. masters of superhuman strength will get the ability to pick up anything, even great big rocks like the incredible hulk lol. some yogis who are on the fire path can sit in fire and remain unharmed or even melt tons of snow. samadhi is a generic term to denote full union or absorption with the object that is meditated on. there are many powers and each lineage tends to claim that their lineage is better than others, but that is not the case. this is why most religions like hindu/buddhism are polytheistic becuase they honor the god of light, the god of sound/music, the god of fire, the god of strength etc... this is also why there are so many yogic lineages in india. its like justice league or superhero league, every path should be honored
also, surat shabda yoga tradition is notoriously known for taking a firm stance on the idea that circulating the life force in the spine is entirely unnecessary. from my expereince this is true
my fav website for it
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SantMatFellowship/
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Edited by - michaelangelo7 on Aug 15 2009 6:16:37 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2009 : 05:51:26 AM
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hi michaelangelo,
I'm very much interested in your path. What i would like to ask you is do you see the spiritual eye? That is the golden ring surrounding blue with a star in the middle?
You concentrate more on the sound than the light right?
Are you familiar with Brian Hines' Church of the Churchless website? What are you thoughts on this man?
Who initiated you? How long have you been practising? Could you share some of your meditation experiences?
Many thanks |
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2009 : 2:17:59 PM
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i have heard of the spiritual eye, however i have never seen it like Paramahansa Yogananda or Master Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath describes it. i have seen the white star, but it was by itself everything was black except the white star, but it wasnt blinding light i could see it perfect, i dont normally close my eyes but that day i did. some people describe the white star as being 5-pointed while others say they see it as an orb, i saw it as an orb, its light didnt leave its perimeter/boundary. yes i focus pretty much 100% on the sounds, but light always appears.
im not familiar with brian hines sorry lol. i was laying on my bed one day and i heard the ringing of bells, and from that point on i hear the bells plus many other heavenly sounds everyday for a couple of years now. so no formal initiation was given. the only expereinces i have had are hearing sounds and seeing lights, its been consistent all the way through
so u could say maha avatar babaji initiated me lol |
Edited by - michaelangelo7 on Aug 16 2009 2:24:08 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2009 : 08:09:55 AM
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Were you practising any other spiritual exercises before then?
I've read before that the star sometimes turns into a white dot instead. I guess this could be the "moon" that sant mat writing speaks about. Perhaps the sun is the golden ring. And someone told me that the star turns into a moon and then the moon gets bigger and bigger and you enter it.
There is a picture somewhere, either Swami Rama book or Divine Life Society, i don't remember which, which has the gold ring, then the blue inside and in the middle is a white dot.
Are you curious as to what would happen if you concentrated on the light?
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2009 : 1:40:55 PM
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yea i guess u could call it a full moon i have read of that. and no im really not curious about the light, the sounds are much more attractive and much richer of an expereince in my opinion. nope not any spiritual practices at all, it was like a god send lol
master yogiraj gurunath siddhanath mentions seeing the tiny white spec in the golden brim/blue center. but as u get closer u actually see that is either a pentagonal star or an orb and when u penetrate it, u go into a high state of samadhi |
Edited by - michaelangelo7 on Aug 17 2009 2:10:20 PM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2009 : 12:02:11 PM
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michael,
Could you give more background info on yourself please? You obviously know about Yogananda and his path. How did you get into Sant mat teachings?
Have you gone into samadhi?
What sounds do you hear besides the bell sound? How do you know this isn't something like tinnitus? How do you know the white orb you see isn't a physiological phenomenon? What other experiences do you have? How old are you? |
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2009 : 3:29:37 PM
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i found sant mat teachings while searching on the internet for stuff on the inner sounds. i hear flutes, whistles, streams, thunder rumbles, crickets, gong, kettle drum etc... there are many texts that talk about this, 2 most popular being Nada Bindu & Hamsa Upanishads. all sant mat saints describe hearing the same exact sounds, everyone who practices this path does. the sounds are very distinct and are not even anything like tinnitus or an annoying sound. the white star was very distinct just like the blue light, it was fairly large about the size of a tennis ball, i was very close to it in my inner vision. im 21 =) and im always constantly absorbed in these sounds like said earlier whether moving about or in a quiet room.
"Once your mind dissolves in this Bindu Nada, Mukti is attained. The goal of meditation, he tells us, is to keep our awareness in this Bindu Nada, even while going about our daily, mundane activities. This, he states is true Dhyan and Dharana. This alone is Samadhi"
-bhagwan nityananda chidakash gita
i really recommend reading chidakash gita by him. it is the best text i have ever read and is so specific and explicit and straight to the point, he doest hesitate to reveal the secrets. he makes many references to bindu (light point) and nada (sounds) throughout it and mentions what happens when the prana enters chidakash/crown chakra/brahmarandra/shiva lingam/prana lingam whatever name u want to call it, they're all synonymous and he uses each of these names. when prana enters the head/brain, nada and bindu are heard and seen, this is no tinnitus, hallicunation or physiological phenonemon. all saints and nada yogis report these expereinces.
if theres anything else u want to know, ask . |
Edited by - michaelangelo7 on Aug 20 2009 02:59:37 AM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2009 : 03:46:43 AM
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So what meditation do you practice?
What is the blue light?
What spiritual practices did you do before all this started happening to you? And when did you start?
How familiar are you with Paramahansa Yogananda's teachings?
Do you have a guru now?
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2009 : 3:06:17 PM
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| surat shadba yoga lol. blue light is the blue pearl as some people call it. no prior practices, started this one a couple years ago. im very familiar with all of yoganandas teachings, including his techniques of listening to the cosmic soundstreams in the brain, his direct disciple roy eugene davis teaches meditation on the inner sounds and lights as well. no i do not have a guru in physical form |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2009 : 07:47:11 AM
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So you have read Muktananda's works. this Nityananda website says he was the guru of Muktananda. He speaks about the breathless state quite a lot. This tallies with Yogananda's teachings.
Did you go to see Roy Davis? Ie did he initiate you? If so, what was that like?
You say you practice sura shabd yoga but this could mean anything. What exactly do you practice?
How do you know it isn't physiological? You said you were in bed the first time it started. I would hypothesise that you were probably remaining awake while your body went to sleep. In these hypnagogic states there are all kinds of sounds, lights etc. Why do you think these sounds stay with you all the time?
Did you ever do any drugs? Were you brought up with a religious background?
I find it hard to believe that all this just suddenly started happening to you without any prior interest or knowledge of spirituality. How do you account for it other than saying it came from Babaji? And why Babaji (or was that a joke)?
Do you feel bliss? Have you adopted the vegetarian guidelines of sant mat and are you celibate? |
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2009 : 8:59:17 PM
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| your skpeticism and attitude are a bit annoying and quite a turn off. i suggest u research this path on your own |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2009 : 11:57:34 PM
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Sorry if you took it the wrong way. I was just asking questions. You do seem reluctant to offer information and this is quite puzzling. I have read about the sant mat path and teachings but that doesn't tell me anything about the specific type of meditation that you do.
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2009 : 12:42:39 AM
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most sants will say focus at trikuti/til dwaar which in translation is the forehead as the preliminary technique. it must be done with the utmost care and equipose, otherwise u will give yourself a headache or worse. eventually u will leave-off that technique when the sounds and lights appear, and then that will become your new object and then even those objects are left-off when you reach a certain state where u do not have to make any effort and the sounds and lights are always there on their own. that is when u no longer see it as a routine/practice or meditation, but as simply being yourself listening to the soundstream effortlessly
and yes i see no problem with revealing all secret info on this subject for reasons i will not get into at the moment |
Edited by - michaelangelo7 on Aug 22 2009 01:28:21 AM |
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abhijit
India
6 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2011 : 10:53:24 PM
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| michaellangelo the light and sound meditation how much time daily did you practice the sound and the light in the beginning and now |
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Light and Sound Meditations
