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 Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
 Recoil after silencing ego
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2 Posts

Posted - Dec 03 2018 :  2:59:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
First time I post on this forum after reading here atleast a few times a week for months now.

I have this issue that arises everytime I sucessfully silenced the nonstop chatter in my mind where it is like some sort of recoil effect or as I have "labeled" it, a payback from the ego for making it be quiet for a period of time.(know I shouldnt label stuff)

It started happening about one and a half years ago when I started meditating more and actively browsed the web for anything to get the never ending stream off thoughts to go away.
I could sometimes archive a very blissful state where it was completely quiet and I felt that I was in control for the first time in a long time. Whenever I get into this state or had any successful meditation it always backfire and I get into a living hell for atleast a few days after where I have almost no control over myself. I can find myself sitting playing videogames I dont like for hours while eating foods I know is bad for me and I just dont have any willpower at all. These days I often sleep around 11-12 hours each day and it is almost impossible to get up of bed unless I have something very important to do.

My work in progress theory is that it is the ego that feels treatened when its control over "me" is challenged and it does this to regain strenght and make some futile show of force. I especially feel the loss of willpower after those 12 hour naps, The rest of those days are very grey and Im lucky if I get atleast one thing of worth done those days.

I feel that this internal "power struggle" is starting to become too much for me and lately I have started to evade everything that can quiet the mind because I know what awaits after that moment has passed.
I have learned lately that my ego is more fattened up than I previously had believed and the person I see is not anyone I want to be anymore. He/it/whatever often disgusts me.

Anyone know what this is(the backfire) and how I should best proceed from here? I have spent an absurd amount of time trying to find out what this is and how to fix it.

For unknown reasons this is the best and most clear post I could write about this subject.


10 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2018 :  08:02:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Soundless,

welcome to the forum!

May I ask if you follow the AYP system of practices? In case you do: what techniques do you do and how long do you do them on a daily basis?

My best advice would be to stop all your practices for a while until you are completely stable again. Grounding activities like socialising and physical activity might help you too. When you are stable again then try ease back into it little by little. Very small steps. Try out a few minutes of daily meditation for a while and increase on that if works out good. Keep in mind that you don't have to reach any state of bliss etc. Meditation works just fine whatever you might experience!

Besides this, I would not recommond considering your identified awareness (ego) as the enemy. I'd rather see it like a computer algorythm. It does what we teach it to do. If we are patient and consistent in meditation, positive change will come.

Best wishes ,

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111 Posts

Posted - Dec 08 2018 :  09:13:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi soundless

I have read your words with care and love. Here is my two cents: when you say, “I can sometimes achieve a very blissful state where it is completely quiet and I feel that I am in control for the first time in a long time. Whenever I get into this state or have any successful meditation it always backfires and I get into a living hell” this shows that even when in control, you are still in an egoic state of mind as the “I” that “thinks” it is in control is always an egoic I. Here is where correct technique and self-surrender comes in.

The above post is a good one and a break might be in order. I suggest you watch over your self-esteem through watching your self-talk and, when you catch yourself beating yourself up, you change what you say to yourself. We are often our own worst enemies without even being conscious of it. But once we begin to be aware of the destructive influence of negative self-talk and start to relentlessly change it to positive self-talk, our whole world changes and we become much happier, more confident and in a better position to surrender our ego and find out who we really are.

This will probably sound confusing untill you have practised effective meditation for a longer period and advanced, spiritually, to where you come to know, through authentic spiritual experience, the subtle differences between the egoic self and the non-egoic real Self. And the very subtle differences between building up your ego and building up your self-esteem. Building up our ego is good only once we are idenified with the Self or Atman, as who we are, our sense of self on a deep phychological level. And once the ego has found it’s rightful place. Then it does it’s proper job of helping to provide self confidence to live our lives well and be happy. But we then must always remember or stay aware of the Self, or Atman. This awareness, this “abiding” in the true Self, helps keep the ego under wraps. Constant abiding in the Self is Self-realization and requires grace to achieve.

My experience is that the ego never really goes away permanently. It always comes back. But by finding, abiding in, and idenitying with the Atman, Self, God-within, higher self, or whatever you want to call it, the ego gradually begins to lose it’s power over you and finds it’s rightful place as a “servant” to this new idenity you are developing, who you gradually begin, at a deep subconscious level, to see yourself as; who you gradually come to fully and clearly identify with. But to do that you need to trace back the egoic-“I” to it’s true source. For the Source of the entire universe, including the ego, is only the Self or Atman, One and undivided. I’m sure the AYP teachings have a good way to trace back and abide in your true Self. This can only be done through practise, for to find and abide in the Self, is simply to “be” the Self. Doing, in this case, is being, simply being. You experience the “I am” without egoically thinking “I am somebody special.”

As you probably know, we have two selves, the egocentered self and the true Self or Atman. From there you need to follow AYP’s teachings on this, and I am not an expert on the AYP teachings. I only come here because my own practise and spiritual journey has brought me here and this is the best place on the internet to learn how to practise yogic meditation effectively where you can find good loving support from other yogic meditation practitioners. Even if my own practise is quite different, all rivers evenually run into the sea. I have experienced the sea of God-realization and hope to continue to be accepted here in my own inquiry into experiencing my way, through effective meditation, to the knowledge of Self-realization; if indeed there “is” a real difference between the two.


Edited by - Herb on Dec 08 2018 11:26:27 AM
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kumar ul islam

United Kingdom
661 Posts

Posted - Dec 08 2018 :  5:09:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you herb
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111 Posts

Posted - Dec 09 2018 :  10:00:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

Edited by - Herb on Dec 09 2018 12:11:56 PM
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1128 Posts

Posted - Dec 10 2018 :  05:42:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Soundless, it sounds as if your practice is inconsistent and hence not stable - perhaps (I may be completely wrong here) you are making the mistake of long, intense practice for days (trying to break through to stillness of mind), then not at all as you fall off the bandwagon into overload. You have not said if you are an AYP practitioner but note that practices need to be consistent in duration and type whatever your practices. Patience and Self-pacing is required. There is no overnight success.

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111 Posts

Posted - Dec 24 2018 :  7:36:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi again Soundless,

I was reading a teaching today from Ramana Maharshi when I thought of something you said in your above post. As a Christian, I myself have struggled with lack of control over my egoic self. But dedicated meditation is bringing glimpses of the Self on a daily basis now. And abidance in the Self, I am finding, is the only thing that takes away carnal desire and indulgence. And it seems to take it away almost effortlessly. Following is what you said, followed by the teaching.

“I get into a living hell for atleast a few days after where I have almost no control over myself. I can find myself sitting playing videogames I dont like for hours while eating foods I know is bad for me and I just dont have any willpower at all.”

“Aspirant: I am a sinful man!
Ramana: Why do you think of yourself so? Only throw all your resposibilities on God in Whom you have faith and He will look after that. Have compassionate love for others but keep it secret; don’t show it or talk of it. If desires are fulfilled, don’t be elated. If they are frustrated, don’t be disappointed. Initial joy at external things, often ends in grief; while desires frustrated, often ends up being to your betterment. Whatever happens, strive to remain in the Self, which is eternally unaffected by the ups and downs of life. This is lasting peace and abiding joy.

In dealing with the anger, hate and discrimination of others, remember—there is only the One. Try to realize there is no ‘I’, no ‘you’, and no ‘he/her’, only the Self which is all. If you believe in the problem of another, you are believing in something outside the Self. You will only ever find lasting peace and joy by realizing the oneness of everything, rather then by focusing outward. You must train your mind to focus within on the Self, amid the ups and downs of life. Only then will you find lasting happiness.

Everything in this universe is run by one supreme Power. But if you do not keep to your destined path, appointed for you by God, and instead stray beyond this narrow path, then God punishes you, and through that suffering, helps you turn back to Him. This is the way, the path to full realization. When the punishment goes and you cease to worship and again sin, you invite increased punishment.

When you get angry, excited, or anxious, know that this reveals that you are again off the destined path, that you are again straying. For while on the appointed path, you will be peaceful and content.

Once all this is crystal clear, you should always seek to abide in the Self and do not stray—into desires, ambitions, bragging, deffending the egoic self, and feeling offended—beyond what God gives you, but be egoless.”

I sincerely hope whoever reads these sacred words of the Master finds the answer to some of their deepest troubles. And may the joy and peace of Christ-mas be with you, now and throughout the coming year.

Edited by - Herb on Dec 24 2018 10:24:47 PM
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