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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 12:01:56 AM
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As a quick disclaimer, I know what I am asking is probably like asking to explain the mind of the divine, so maybe really this is more like a mini rant that I hope will still yield some useful tidbits. 
I mean for it to be read a bit tongue in cheek. Or heck, tongue in head given Kechari and all (bad yoga joke there). 
So as background to this, I have decided to dial back my practice for awhile. I have not had any overload symptoms yet but realize after reading some other posts and asking Yogani I might have been underestimating how much of a delay there can be in overload occurring from practices. And I was adding them on as I saw I had no ill effects.
So it seems like such a difficult balancing act. If one has strong bhakti, it could lead to wanting to practice all day... but then there is this divine smackdown in store if you go too fast!? 
I read a story about Robert Bruce the OBE author and how he raised Kundalini energy for like 5 hours straight not knowing any better and claims he almost killed himself.  Of course he also claims to have later met Babaji so things still worked out kinda OK... 
Why doesn't yoga have a better self regulating mechanism for rewarding strong bhakti lol? Is it like a purposeful throttling mechanism? You have to go through so many lives and this keeps you from trying to cheat the system lol? "No enlightenment for you!"  (said in my best soup nazi voice)...
I mean, I've had at least enough devotion to stretch my tounge out by hand and nearly stick it in my brain haha, that's gotta count for something.
And my wife might not want to kiss me after finding out I played tonsil hockey with myself (literally) and licked my nostrils from the inside 
And that said I'd still do it all day if it were not counter indicated! 
And especially if I were single right now I'd consider moving to Tibet or somewhere. I'd put up with some serious negative energy side effects if it was part of the path and actually moved you forward faster instead of pushed you backwards!
I guess I just wish yoga was a bit more... scientific.
Well, that is my "rant", off to go do my scaled back practice, thanks for listening   
PS. Could not resist going for the full monty on emoticons in this post       
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Edited by - technoyogi on Apr 01 2015 12:04:22 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 02:38:01 AM
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LOL. Colorful. Sincere. Absurd.
Let the good times roll.  |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1537 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 03:44:35 AM
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Classic.
Be prepared to un-know everything you think you know about spiritual practices or "being spiritual"
Life is dealing me some small but sharp slaps just to remind me that I know s**t.
Sey
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 05:21:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by technoyogi
Why doesn't yoga have a better self regulating mechanism for rewarding strong bhakti lol?
I guess I just wish yoga was a bit more... scientific.
Hi Technoyogi
IMO in life we are always given the freedom to make our own choices, but we also also carry the responsibility of our choices. We are literally in charge.
There are no self regulating mechanism - you have to be your own regulator. I would even say that being that self regulator is the main task in one's life. Nobody and nothing can regulate anything for you.
The same applies to yoga: the way you approach it depends on the overall goal you chose. You can chose the goal to leave the mundane world and become a monk doing large amount of yoga practices, or you can chose to take a smaller amount of yoga practices in order to achieve the goal of a better life in the world.
In my experience, once you have set your goal, self regulation of yoga practices (self-pacing) becomes more obvious and easy.
I already wrote you that I admire your bhakti (by the way, I also wish I could write beautiful and funny english posts like you and other community members), but I wonder if you are not aiming for too many different goals in life, which could make it hard to define the amount of yoga practices that fits in. Of course, feel free to reject this compeltely. |
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Dogboy
USA
2207 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 05:57:40 AM
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Best of both worlds: Put a sign that says TIBET in your meditation closet!
..now if you could only regulate your emoticon usage...
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 06:17:25 AM
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Yes, you've just about used up the emoticon allowance for the entire thread
Well, they say it's possible to have to much of a good thing. This is how this world is designed, isn't it? Countless examples: you can't eat once for the whole year ahead and too much sleep/rest than is not good for you.
It seems to me that one of the reasons you can't have a lot of yoga progress in one go is that the physical body has to change too. And it can't do it overnight. Change has to happen by small degrees. It's true if you look at it psychologically too. It has been said the subconscious mind is conservative - it has a strong tendency to stick to the familiar, even when the familiar is dysfunctional.
Try to change too fast and you will throw the system out of balance. You might not be able to function for a while. Ecdyonurus said it already: If you live in a cave somewhere that might not be too bad, but if you want to get on with your social responsibilities then you probably don't want to put stability at risk. |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Apr 01 2015 06:18:38 AM |
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dv2014
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 08:00:40 AM
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It seems the real yoga is right here right now. You practice a little bit a day and life is presenting you countless opportunities to practice it to make the benefits permanent, be in the form of a noisy neighbor, arrogant co-worker, a cranky baby or even in the form of a broken dishwasher, you name it .. What is the whole point in meditating 24/7 in a cave when one has not really developed compassion, tolerance and other touted qualities that a yogi is supposed to have. And stories of cave dwelling yogis and their arrogance and intolerance are not rare - they are often seen to have had to start from the scratch (at least in stories!).
I guess the 'science' behind that may be that the real yoga is not to drive people away from life, but toward it, so it has to be in moderation - just my thoughts at this point in journey :)
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 1:29:18 PM
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Thanks everyone! Both for the wise perspectives and not taking me too seriously at the same time.
I am grateful for this yoga journey, even if I do wind up overdoing it a bit at some point. At least I found AYP in the first place. Prior to this I had taken a Pranayama instructor course with a well intentioned friend who had suggested we do 15 minutes of Pranayama twice daily. Maybe he assumed I would be doing meditation right after, but I certainly was not. At least now with AYP I have a more balanced approach with the combination of SBP and DM.
And it was really finding AYP that made me feel I could balance the spiritual quest with my householder role. I also feel less need to run off and do Vipassana or darkroom retreats. I may still wind up doing those, but if they never happen I won't feel deprived in any way.
I tend to be scientific in my approach, but I see science as just a tool and actually severely flawed when it comes to describing the ultimate nature of things. It takes matter as the primacy of all things, whereas I take consciousness/stillness to be the genesis of all form, illusory as it may be.
Part of my impatience has to do with my concern that humanity is on a path to destroy itself Atlantis style with our exponentially advancing technology, especially AI. In 20 years computers will have up to 100 times the processing power of a human brain. And this AI will have been created in corporations or as Wall Street algorithms - birthed from an inherent greed perspective... I see this danger as plainly as day, so I feel a sort of responsibility to raise myself up and help others raise up.
I feel like the coming dangers are going to necessitate an accelerated awakening by everyone or it is likely to get ugly. Exponential curves look good on paper, in real life they always blow up.
All that said I take it all as an opportunity for mass awakening. Maybe we do figure out a way to shorten the process and make symptoms happen less often. I'm of the opinion that it might become necessary soon.
I do think that by engaging a bit in the grounding practices proactively there can be some amount of heading things off at the pass. Time will tell of course as always.
Despite all the heavy sounding stuff, for now I feel much better with the dawn of a new day and having cathartically rambled a bit about all of this, thanks again for humoring me everyone. |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 1:49:49 PM
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| Hi Technoyogi, I think that this mass awakening will be like grass growing - a huge amount of single beings that grow in a slow, peaceful, non hurting way. Every single being is so smal and fragile, but the mass and its gentle nature makes the grass so strong. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 5:44:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by technoyogi
I do think that by engaging a bit in the grounding practices proactively there can be some amount of heading things off at the pass.
It's so key. Letting the flesh touch the soil, literally, makes a world of difference. It can be as simple as sitting in a yard, or walking barefoot, or watering plants. Nothing dramatic or glamorous required. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2015 : 6:37:03 PM
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Hi technoyogi,
I fully feel with you in this, am myself researching and observing this point in parallel to my own practice since years. I do see a lot of potential in making the transformation much much faster without having to worry with side effects. But I feel it is best to first reach the yogic peak with a proven yogic system and getting the complete perspective before experimenting with better methods to facilitate the same for others much faster and easier .
As you say pro-active grounding measures may be one of the key elements for personal practical application. As a second group practice and and as a third more refined yogic approaches.
If you haven't read Yogani's retreat book so far, you will like it very much ;)
Happy practice friends! |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1537 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2015 : 02:54:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
Best of both worlds: Put a sign that says TIBET in your meditation closet!
..now if you could only regulate your emoticon usage...
Now why didn't I think of that??!
My bedroom is getting a new label...TIBET
@ technoyogi
quote:
...Part of my impatience has to do with my concern that humanity is on a path to destroy itself Atlantis style with our exponentially advancing technology, especially AI. In 20 years computers will have up to 100 times the processing power of a human brain. And this AI will have been created in corporations or as Wall Street algorithms - birthed from an inherent greed perspective... I see this danger as plainly as day, so I feel a sort of responsibility to raise myself up and help others raise up.
I feel like the coming dangers are going to necessitate an accelerated awakening by everyone or it is likely to get ugly. Exponential curves look good on paper, in real life they always blow up...
Chill ! Who says the world is going up in smoke? The above is our typical illusion that we are in control. We are not (imo)
Sey
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Dogboy
USA
2207 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2015 : 07:36:31 AM
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| I'm also not sure how "accelerated awakening" of mankind can or would affect the accelerated computing power of Artificial Intelligence, other than giving us to tools to handle suffering, eh? |
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Bill R.
Canada
12 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2015 : 10:13:17 AM
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Hey, technoyogi. I understand your angst about the exponential growth of technology.
Not sure if you've come across Peter Diamandis' book, Abundance: The Future is Better Than You Think. As the co-founder of Singularity University, he at least offers an alternate view of the future that is not driven by greed.
Not long after I read that book, I came across this quote from Jae Woong Kim in Polishing the Diamond, Enlightening the Mind - Reflections of a Korean Buddhist Master: "According to Buddhism, a world will soon begin where material wealth is abundant, and life is comfortable due to the development of science and technology. This will be the period of great merit of no limit ..."
Maybe it's all part of the 'accelerated awakening.'
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2015 : 10:55:49 AM
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Maybe technology will allow us to work less and have much more time for spiritual life, or simply enjoy.
Of course, this will only happen if we accept to reduce our material needs a little bit. |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2015 : 2:11:34 PM
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Wonderful responses everyone, thank you all!
I do of course realize that I am not in control of the larger picture. Yet the thought of the future I see rouses compassion in me.
I have read the book Abundance, I actually bought 5 extra copies and gave them to friends and family. I know one of the co-authors and interact with him often on Facebook where we are friends. I totally believe that an abundant future is possible, but not guaranteed.
People like Bill Gates, Elon Musk of Tesla, Steve Woz the co founder of Appple, Stephen Hawking all *strongly* warn about AI even though they would profit handsomely or benefit from AI otherwise.
In answer to the question of what higher consciousness could do to avert an AI catastrophe, I think it would simply allow us to step back and be happy with what we have to start with.
I used to work as a nanotech slave in essence. Sometimes 100 hour weeks trying to push the edge of Moore's law. Always trying to make the quarter look good for Wall Street. Moore's law is behind most current exponential technology and behind it is as much "greed" as it is human innovation. Do any of us really "need" to buy a new iphone every year?
I think that is how accelerated awakening could end the problem before it would start Dogboy. A society that is awakened would either birth AI from a place of love and compassion rather than greed as it will happen now, or simply stop it before it advances exponentially out of control. Or, if we all awaken we just stop it John Wilder style because I imagine a collectively awakened humanity can do ANYTHING.
I hope that I and these other tech titans are wrong. I hope the future is rosy for all of humanity. Collectively we have free will. I actually view the "threat" as an impetus for mass awakening, an opportunity of sorts. It would be the first ever threat to humanity on a mass scale. I think the collective consciousness should indeed awaken from this threat, self created as it may be. Maybe that is all this would be really, humanity collectively awakening from its own self-created lucid nightmare.
But to me anyway, that awareness, that lucidity, has to start somewhere. Can I control its full fruition and ultimate destination? Probably not. Can I play a small part to the extent that I am one with the rest of humanity? Hopefully so.
Again, forgive the "seeming" alarmist tone, yet AI in its worst incarnation imaginable (1000 times smarter than humans and greedy) has the very real possibility to wipe out humanity. Literally 1000 times worse than the Holocaust. If I see even the *smallest* hint that could happen and have 10 or 20 years to act, sorry, again, my compassion won't let me stand idly by.
It is and always has been the essence of the Bodisattva vow that one will awaken in order to help others awaken. Now seems as good a time as ever to me.
From where I sit with all my long years in technology and my budding personal awakening looking at what seems about to happen, it feels pretty clear to me individually that this is part of my path.
Now to some I probably already sound crazy, that's cool My main challenge in the meantime personally seems to be to awaken without going crazy first for real
to all who read my rant yet again |
Edited by - technoyogi on Apr 02 2015 2:24:30 PM |
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greymatter
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2015 : 9:46:27 PM
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Hey technoyogi
I also wonder about the fate of mankind and how that ties into my individual yoga practices. It seems like the fate of mankind is a common theme in spiritual texts, so if someone has a spiritual answer to the following questions, I would appreciate it.
What is the role of radiance in history, can it be modeled on a graph as an upward slope or is it something else? The internet made it possible for me to get into yoga practices, does that make the internet a marker of spiritual progress for mankind as a whole?
What will society look like when everyone starts doing yoga practices? Will we populate the universe? Will we be nice? Will we rebuild 1996? Will there be conflict?
Currently several issues threaten the proliferation of humanity including global warming, rapid technological development, nanobots eating everything, space lasers(?), death by boredom etc. Do we then create an opposite category of harmonies which are going to prevent the evil such as yoga, internet, abundance, microprocessors etc? If so, do the issues compete with the harmonies for dominance over the fate of mankind? It seems like many people are content with presuming victory for one side or the other. My own role in life seems to be within the context of the great drama, so these questions are of great concern to me. I would appreciate any further insight.
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Edited by - greymatter on Apr 03 2015 10:31:03 PM |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2015 : 11:31:23 PM
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Hi Greymatter
I did a few quick google searches, there is no question in my mind that technology has helped increase the amount of people who meditate in the US. The rough numbers are:
1995 - 5 million people
2003 - 10 million
2012 - 18 million
Most of that is clearly coincident with the rise of the internet, which made guided meditations and binaural meditations easily available to people, in many cases for free.
So right now a doubling every 10 years or so.
There is some thought that if enough people meditate, there will be a knock on effect that lifts everyone else up. Lots of names for this, one is the Maharishi Effect.
At the same time we have seen a similar explosion of yoga asana classes, if not full yoga. As Yogani says, that is a start.
So yeah, I think it is moving along fairly well. Maybe the numbers increase to where we all get high consciosness before we birth a greedy AI. Or a bioengineered terror pandemic. Or nanobots eating everything.
I'd very much like to see an Enlightenment Singularity before the much predicted Technology Singularity :-)
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2015 : 09:40:20 AM
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| You're funny man . Anyway, if you want to practice more go become a monk, if not, take a householder approach and do AYP while fully engaging with your life. IMO you are confused between the above two spiritual goals. Or you may just want to be a householder who practices alot. |
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Prem
Canada
90 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2015 : 10:53:34 AM
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| Really enjoying riding along this thread. This is not altogether relevant just a comment - as a child of the 50's born with that Bhakti for deeper things including meditation and yoga. So when I found yogini Kareen Zebroff on TV circa 1967 I thought I died and went to heaven. It really resonated. And under her television tutelage that seed flourished. Thank God for any and all technology that make yoga and meditation and all things leading to enlightenment accessible. Younger people don't realize how hard it was to find teachings in those days. Especially in rural areas. I'd love to practise full-time but my householder status keeps me in check - probably a good thing. |
Edited by - Prem on Apr 05 2015 11:09:43 AM |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2015 : 01:53:06 AM
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| That is great perspective, thanks for sharing Prem. SOmewhat related, 25 years ago I bought a book on Astral Projection. The more I read the more I wondered if I wasn't just reading something some guy made up. There was a lot of effort involved and I was busy with school. If I had found that same book today I would have been a few searches away from whole facebook groups with people who all have had the actual experience and are happy to share how to do it. And so it is with yoga here and as you have mentioned. The esoteric is being accelerated and made accessible by Moores law. And I hear you on the householder status, probably a good thing here too! |
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Prem
Canada
90 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2015 : 08:29:42 AM
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| That is so true Technoyogi. We find all these little seeds along the way and looking back over 50 years it's cool to see how everything has brought us to this point. I heard my old yoga teacher was into astral projection and all kinds of esoteric practices in the 60's and 70's and all her neighbours and even her daughters thought she was a crazy lady. Fast forward to recent times where people come to sit at her feet and eat up her teachings. How far we have come baby! Although I wish she had been my neighbour back then |
Edited by - Prem on Apr 08 2015 08:38:51 AM |
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NoDogma
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2015 : 01:36:40 AM
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hey techno,
Just to agitate you a bit, there was a paper few years ago, with a complete mathematical proof that (1) entropy of universe needs to keep increasing (2) the universe will do everything to speed it up (3) hence it is essential that intelligent species like humans are created because we can destroy whole planet(s) and civilizations in no time... without AI
on the other hand, we are really an evolutionary exception. We did not need to have this intellect to survive. It was an accident. and as shown in history, we are capable of creating more social accidents. and social accidents don't follow Moore's law. Besides, AI became a myth in 70s, 80s.. and it might remain one 50 yrs from now (in spite of fuzzy).
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Edited by - NoDogma on Apr 10 2015 01:57:56 AM |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2015 : 09:33:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NoDogma
hey techno,
Just to agitate you a bit, there was a paper few years ago, with a complete mathematical proof that (1) entropy of universe needs to keep increasing (2) the universe will do everything to speed it up (3) hence it is essential that intelligent species like humans are created because we can destroy whole planet(s) and civilizations in no time... without AI
on the other hand, we are really an evolutionary exception. We did not need to have this intellect to survive. It was an accident. and as shown in history, we are capable of creating more social accidents. and social accidents don't follow Moore's law. Besides, AI became a myth in 70s, 80s.. and it might remain one 50 yrs from now (in spite of fuzzy).
Are you sure? Maybe we've all already been inserted into the matrix |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2015 : 10:08:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NoDogma
We did not need to have this intellect to survive.
I'm going to join ak33 in his question "Are you sure?"
Somebody once said that if you take away the human intellect, what you're left with is "an ape that falls out of trees a lot". It is disputable if a species like that would have made it |
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NoDogma
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2015 : 4:08:20 PM
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Help a "science guy" out here please :-)
