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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 04 2015 : 5:21:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Pretty sure I couldn't be celibate. I can definitely say that it would be very very challenging. 
Love,
Carson 
Well maybe I should clarify, when I say "celibate" I actually mean, "No physical sex with embodied beings, but mind-blowing whole-body spiritual sex with ishta." Not "celibacy" in the usual sense.  However, on second thought, if there were "energy issues" or overload, this activity would be equally if not more problematic... So, what's a yogi to do?! I guess if you are going to have a "problem," "scarily intense orgasm" is a relatively nice one to have, provided that you don't permanently leave your body or spontaneously combust or something... Anyway, all the best.  I forgot to ask husband about his experience but will try to remember tonight and get back to you. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2015 : 9:26:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Carson,
Even though each individual is unique we all have the same subtle nervous system. This is why it is possible for people to give others advice on the path.
Hi Christi,
I noticed some of your points seem to be relayed in absolute terms to some degree and thought to offer another point of view.
One thing I have observed is that although there may be common characteristics of the "subtle nervous system", there also appears to be a unique matrix of "obstructions", which make it difficult at times, as Yogani points out, to know the path of another, where they are at, or what they need.
What you need to go forward and another are likely very different things, and certain experiences may be required for certain people to find inner balance and see through limiting obstructions. Aside from all this, the path for someone may not be to wake up at this point in time, but to play with whatever or wherever they are, who can say?
quote:
What I am talking about is stability, rather than overload symptoms. If someone is unable to sit in meditation, even for a few minutes each day, without experiencing problems it is because they are unstable. Even if they feel fine in daily life, that underlying instability is there, preventing them form engaging in spiritual practices if they wanted to.
Can you be absolutely sure of this? Are there other possibilities here? Mantra meditation from my experience, is like riding a wave of energy and moving through the universe of energy in a particular way and is energy stimulating in many ways. Energy stimulation in the particular ways offered my mantra may not always be what is needed in some cases from my experience and can be destabilizing very quickly even for some who never engage in formal practices of any kind. This isn't to say that mantra meditation isn't highly beneficial for many people for long even indefinite periods of time. It was personally beneficial for me for a period of time and there are many positive reports of good results from school programs where is is being used as well.
quote:
Fuelling the fire (in any way), can cause that instability to continue for as long as the fire continues to be fuelled. When the fire is not fuelled then stability can return. With effective grounding practices and not engaging in practices that are known to excessively fuel the fire, stability can be found and spiritual practices can be started again. This has been the experience for many people. Of course, nobody has to engage in spiritual practice if they don't want to and everyone has a choice.
This has been my experience too and I would say tantra, as Carson describes, is one of the most energy intensifying practices I have come across.
quote:
Orgasm stops being something we experience some of the time, but rather something we experience all of the time. This is a gradual process whereby we find ourselves in an orgasmic state spontaneously at times throughout the day and those times become increasingly frequent and extended. Sexual essences are being drawn up through the body and continuously recycled.
My experience of this was quite the opposite, this was only the case for the initial couple of years of "kundalini awakening" and was only perpetuated by excessive practices afterwards. Eventually the natural progression here was for this to diminish over time as resistance to this energy abated over time. So no perceivable ecstasy unless "observing" the body in particular areas, though tantric experiences like Carson describes, could be experienced if desired, but there was usually a price to pay when overdone, and gave that up a few years back out of necessity.
It has been my observation that stillness brings all things to rest eventually. I see infinite possibilities rather than one way of looking at things, I can't say anything with certainty because as soon as I see something I am sure of, life shows me otherwise quickly enough.
The journey up into the higher realms of ecstasy and bliss eventually ends, from the point of view, of those things no longer being an intense experience that are differentiated from every day life and in any case, there is no desire for bliss or ecstasy over any other experience. All experiences are perceived as equal (though in unique ways) so there is no need to seek those above the other experiences life brings your way, all have value. The peaceful contentedness of beingness is more than enough.
Just my two cents since you put it out there.
All the best!
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Edited by - Anthem on Jan 04 2015 11:02:13 PM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2015 : 05:06:54 AM
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Hello Anthem
Good to hear from you.
Could you please satisfy my curiosity on this one point: do you get the same level of energy stimulation if you do breath instead of mantra meditation? (I'm guessing you have probably tried this before deciding to stop meditating)
Same question to Carson if I may.
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Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Jan 05 2015 05:53:02 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2015 : 12:27:59 PM
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Hi Anthem,
quote:
Hi Christi,
I noticed some of your points seem to be relayed in absolute terms to some degree and thought to offer another point of view.
One thing I have observed is that although there may be common characteristics of the "subtle nervous system", there also appears to be a unique matrix of "obstructions", which make it difficult at times, as Yogani points out, to know the path of another, where they are at, or what they need.
What you need to go forward and another are likely very different things, and certain experiences may be required for certain people to find inner balance and see through limiting obstructions. Aside from all this, the path for someone may not be to wake up at this point in time, but to play with whatever or wherever they are, who can say?
Yes, although we all have the same subtle nervous system, everyone has their own unique matix of obstructions within that nervous system. So in that sense we cannot know the path of another. But because we all have the same nervous system there are general trends and patterns that we can observe. In other words we can observe cause and effect in practice.
It certainly could be that it may not be time for a particular person to awaken and that will be shown by the way they engage, or don't engage with spiritual practices. Everyone is free to do whatever they want to as long as they don't harm anyone else.
quote:
What I am talking about is stability, rather than overload symptoms. If someone is unable to sit in meditation, even for a few minutes each day, without experiencing problems it is because they are unstable. Even if they feel fine in daily life, that underlying instability is there, preventing them form engaging in spiritual practices if they wanted to.
Can you be absolutely sure of this? Are there other possibilities here?
Sure, there could be other possibilities, it is just that I have not seen them. As I mentioned above, we can observe cause and effect in spiritual practice, building up models over time, which is what makes yoga a science. I have observed many times people bringing themselves into an unstable condition where they are not able to meditate without it having an adverse reaction on them, and in every case it has been preceded by over-doing spiritual practices. Usually it was done accidentally where someone did not know what too much was and found out the hard way. Occasionally it is done by someone deliberately because they want to push their own limits to see how far they can go. Personally I have never encountered a case where someone is pacing their practice and following guidance and ends up in this state. So looking at it from a scientific point of view, there is a one-to-one causal relationship pattern, at least from what I have observed over the years. That is not to say that something else could not be the case, but until some evidence comes to light, there isn't really any reason to think that it would be the case.
quote:
Mantra meditation from my experience, is like riding a wave of energy and moving through the universe of energy in a particular way and is energy stimulating in many ways. Energy stimulation in the particular ways offered my mantra may not always be what is needed in some cases from my experience and can be destabilizing very quickly even for some who never engage in formal practices of any kind.
Mantra meditation is very powerful and if someone is finding it difficult to sit, or finding that sitting is causing them problems, I would not advise them to use mantra meditation. As Blue suggests above, I would advise meditation on the breath as a much more gentle alternative.
quote:
My experience of this was quite the opposite, this was only the case for the initial couple of years of "kundalini awakening" and was only perpetuated by excessive practices afterwards. Eventually the natural progression here was for this to diminish over time as resistance to this energy abated over time. So no perceivable ecstasy unless "observing" the body in particular areas, though tantric experiences like Carson describes, could be experienced if desired, but there was usually a price to pay when overdone, and gave that up a few years back out of necessity.
It has been my observation that stillness brings all things to rest eventually. I see infinite possibilities rather than one way of looking at things, I can't say anything with certainty because as soon as I see something I am sure of, life shows me otherwise quickly enough.
The journey up into the higher realms of ecstasy and bliss eventually ends, from the point of view, of those things no longer being an intense experience that are differentiated from every day life and in any case, there is no desire for bliss or ecstasy over any other experience. All experiences are perceived as equal (though in unique ways) so there is no need to seek those above the other experiences life brings your way, all have value. The peaceful contentedness of beingness is more than enough.
What you are describing here is the next stage in the path beyond that which Radharani and Carson and I have been discussing above. It is the stage of Sat Chit Ananda, (Beingness, Consciousness, Bliss). So rather than seeing your experience as the opposite of what we have been discussing, I would say that you are just describing what happens next. The stage you describe is also a stage, and there are higher stages on the path beyond even this, which we come to as long as we continue with our practices.
Christi
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2015 : 9:35:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
Hello Anthem
Good to hear from you.
Could you please satisfy my curiosity on this one point: do you get the same level of energy stimulation if you do breath instead of mantra meditation? (I'm guessing you have probably tried this before deciding to stop meditating)
Same question to Carson if I may.
Hi BlueRaincoat,
Good guess, you are right, I did try other forms of meditation before stopping entirely. At the time I stopped daily meditation practice a few years back, any type of meditation with eyes closed caused imbalance after a few minutes for whatever reason. So breath and mantra were equals in this regard, though the symptoms of overload were slightly different, hard to remember the details now.
Things moved into different directions as I mentioned in another thread, a long period of surrender and now simply being present, beingness here and now. Just becoming more conscious in every moment. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2015 : 11:52:39 PM
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| ok, Carson, I ran your situation by my husband and asked if he had experienced anything similar. First thing he said was, "Does he do drugs?" LOL. He said with regard to the 10-minute orgasm, he has not experienced that. Actually, he said, in our tantric practice he has remained WAY pre-orgasmic, so it would rarely get near the point of orgasm (including spinal or otherwise). He said the only unusual thing he has experienced during our tantra sessions is that at least once he has gone out of his body, into "some other strange celestial realm" for an undetermined period of time - I would say at least 10 minutes, recalling a couple of times when his energy was extremely quiet - and then he came back into his body, still connected with me. This was when we were lying still, meditating. When I asked him about the times we felt we might leave through our crown chakras, he said he didn't really remember the details but it was not unpleasant or scary. Personally I thought it was a bit scary, but he does not have the knowledge or experience in yoga to be alarmed by crown activity... |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2015 : 09:26:21 AM
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| Thank you Anthem! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2015 : 09:52:27 AM
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Hi Blueraincoat,
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
Could you please satisfy my curiosity on this one point: do you get the same level of energy stimulation if you do breath instead of mantra meditation? (I'm guessing you have probably tried this before deciding to stop meditating)
For me, the energy stimulation wasn't actually the issue...that was more of an issue for my kids than it was for me. I stopped practices because the ecstatic sensations/bliss kept me from being fully present in the moment and because any attempt to try and steer Life was immediately seen as inauthentic or coming from a place of delusion.
At some point it became obvious that there was an unquestioned belief driving the desire to continue with practices and that this belief was actually an impediment to authentic living. The belief was that I could actually control the trajectory of life by doing practices. The underlying pillar of this belief is that I exist. Once the understanding that there is no I settled into the heart (meaning it was no longer just a mental understanding), any time I sat for practices it was very obvious that I was acting from a place of delusion. This is when the practices moved from being on the mat to being 24/7/365.
Not sure if that answered your question of not. Hahahaha 
quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
First thing he said was, "Does he do drugs?" LOL.
I think most everyone here knows that I use marijuana (I have a legal weed card for pain management purposes) and that I use psychedelics like mushrooms or ketamine on average of about once a year as "therapy." On this particular occasion however there had been nothing consumed for quite some time prior. 
Love,
Carson
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 01:22:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I think most everyone here knows that I use marijuana (I have a legal weed card for pain management purposes) and that I use psychedelics like mushrooms or ketamine on average of about once a year as "therapy." On this particular occasion however there had been nothing consumed for quite some time prior.
Love,
Carson
He didn't say it like it was a BAD thing...
Legal weed card?! awesome! |
Edited by - Radharani on Jan 09 2015 04:20:11 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 10:08:29 AM
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Thank you Carson. Yes, you have answered my question.
I can't say that I'm able to relate to the idea of bliss being an impediment to authentic living, but of course what you feel/experience is important.
It does seem sad that you may have to limit bliss in love making, but I hope you will find a way to stay safe.
Best wishes 
By the way, lots of people here seem to care a lot about you. Even if you don't agree with their advice, the good will behind it is, I think, beyond doubt. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 12:31:54 PM
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Hi BlueRaincoat,
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
I can't say that I'm able to relate to the idea of bliss being an impediment to authentic living, but of course what you feel/experience is important.
Yes, truly. How other people judge my experience/path is inconsequential. What matters is staying true to my own path/heart/self no matter the outside pressures.
Anything that pulls me out of balance is an impediment to authentic living. This used to include thoughts, emotions, ecstasy, altered states, etc etc. Thoughts no longer pull me out of the moment as they are simply noticed as they pass by now and there is very rarely any "charge" held in them. Emotions can pull me out of the moment still but these are also my barometer for hangups, so I welcome them and use them to suss out troublesome conditioning/tendencies that have yet to be unwound. Altered states can (if strong enough) pull me away from the present moment but they can also give me an altered perspective on the moment/myself which allows me to see things I wouldn't see from my normal perspective and then I can begin to work on these insights. Ecstasy, for whatever reason, still pulls me right out of the moment and I end up being "intoxicated with love." This, as wonderful as it feels/is, is not healthy (for me) as I lose clarity and present moment awareness with the only positive tradeoff seeming to be some pleasant feelings.
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
It does seem sad that you may have to limit bliss in love making, but I hope you will find a way to stay safe.
My current understanding is that the body (my body at the stage of evolution it is currently at) is only able to sustain a certain amount of "voltage." The amount of voltage it can sustain is pretty incredible, but not infinite. It seems to be possible to allow "the infinite" to have full access of the body if I allow it. But it feels that if I do open all the way to it, that I will exit the body permanently. I recognize this now, and until I am ready to move on, I will try my best to stay on the right side of the infinite. This was a valuable experience in figuring out where the human body's limitations are so that I don't accidentally breech them too early.
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
By the way, lots of people here seem to care a lot about you. Even if you don't agree with their advice, the good will behind it is, I think, beyond doubt.
The AYP community has been a foundation in my life for many years. Some of my closest friends have come from this group of people, and even though we only see each other in the flesh occasionally, the sense of connectedness never seems to wane, only grow. Hell, next month I'm flying across the continent, with my entire family, to be in the wedding party of an AYPer I've only met in person one time. This is how much the AYP community cares for me, and I for it.
Hi Radharani,
quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
Legal weed card?! awesome!
I know right! Nothing like paying for formerly illegal medication with your Mastercard and getting AirMiles points for it to boot!
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 09 2015 1:56:56 PM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2015 : 2:10:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
What matters is staying true to my own path/heart/self no matter the outside pressures.
Yes, important to stay true to yourself. Listening to others can however be useful. No pressure, just different opinions and food for thought.  |
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juan
Spain
34 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2015 : 11:58:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
My main reasons for posting this thread were to:
1. See if anyone else is having 10minute long orgasms
2. See if anyone else has had the hands/forehead start on fire during orgasm experience
3. See if others thought I should go get my heart checked by an MD because it sounds like I could have an issue.
Hi Carson,
You helped me a lot when I came here asking for advice. Not sure if I may help you at all, but here are my two cents.
1. Yes, I also have 10 minutes long orgasms. These may happen doing tantric sex with my partner or just laying on my back, feeling the same flow (orgasmic, but not so sexual) across my body. What is scarily intense? Difficult to say, as the intensity is higher every day. Now it is miles ahead of what I felt one year ago, and no idea on how this will be some months from now. It is also quite common for us, when we experience an intensity jump, ending with uncontrollable laughter, looking at each other with eyes wide open and yelling “What the *** was THAT!!!???
2. I feel a burning feeling in the palms of my hands (app 1 inch from the line dividing forearm and hand) when I am alone with the energy. This uses to happen in connection with the opening of anahata and intense flow through my arms. But I never got my skin burnt.
3. I am not in the position of giving any advice on that. But it seems to me that you are able to control the flow so it does not fry you. The question is how close to the limit you get. It is also my feeling that this flow can grow high enough to kill me if I allow it, so I try to keep a reasonable safety margin. But I have felt scared a couple of times when I got too close.
Thank you again for letting me see, one year ago, that every path is unique. I would now humbly say that, perhaps, we don't even need a path, nor an objective. Just letting the process to unfold by itself.
Love,
juan
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2015 : 1:45:31 PM
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Hi Juan and thanks for commenting. Sorry for the delayed reply, was in Florida at trip1's wedding (which was crazy baller). 
quote:
Originally posted by juan
1. Yes, I also have 10 minutes long orgasms. These may happen doing tantric sex with my partner or just laying on my back, feeling the same flow (orgasmic, but not so sexual) across my body. What is scarily intense?
Nice to hear that there are other people here that are experiencing the joy of extended tantric orgasm.
I would say that "scarily intense" is when the "safety threshold" that you mention in your point #3 is breached.
quote:
Originally posted by juan
2. I feel a burning feeling in the palms of my hands (app 1 inch from the line dividing forearm and hand) when I am alone with the energy. This uses to happen in connection with the opening of anahata and intense flow through my arms. But I never got my skin burnt.
Yeah, this was probably the weirdest part of this particular experience. I get tingly hands when someone around me requires a healing of some sort, I get fiery hands when the energy is flowing strongly through the arms, and I have often experienced the burning forehead when there was lots of third eye purification happening many years ago, but the burnt finger under my wedding ring was just really strangely physical.
quote:
Originally posted by juan
3. I am not in the position of giving any advice on that. But it seems to me that you are able to control the flow so it does not fry you. The question is how close to the limit you get. It is also my feeling that this flow can grow high enough to kill me if I allow it, so I try to keep a reasonable safety margin. But I have felt scared a couple of times when I got too close.
I have recently had my heart checked (part of pre-op procedure for elbow reconstruction #2 which happens on Tuesday) and I have extremely good heart functioning. It seems that in this instance I just accidentally went right over that safety threshold.
quote:
Originally posted by juan
Thank you again for letting me see, one year ago, that every path is unique. I would now humbly say that, perhaps, we don't even need a path, nor an objective. Just letting the process to unfold by itself.
That's pretty much where I am at now... it's a path of surrender in many ways. Much love to you Juan.
Love,
Carson
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Scarily intense orgasm
