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Naz
37 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 06 2006 : 07:06:56 AM
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Here I would like to try and share some experience I gained with samyama practice. There are many interesting and new points I have observed, but, to start the possible discussion let me begin with this one:
If you take a planet, or any stellar formation and go into deep samyama with it you will inevitably get in the flow of your life the effects of the energy associated with the chosen planet (stellar formation) as combined with the astrological mansion, in which the given stellar formation is found in your natal chart |
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2006 : 05:26:19 AM
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| That also means, for example, that if you take a sutra which refers to one or the other astrological quality (let's say 'love', which refers to Venus), you get the effects accordingly to the location of the significator of that quality in your natal chart. The consequence is, that for each person the effects may differ accordingly, and also, if the significator is located in a bad house (for instance, if Venus is in the 6th house), the effects of the sutra may be more or less inauspicious. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2006 : 08:38:45 AM
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Welcome Naz (what a pretty name)...
This is very interesting. I am totally ignorant, when it comes to astrology... I did not even know Venus was associated with "love"... sorry .. I would have never thought about connecting a sutra to a planet.. and how that would affect each person differently. Maybe that is why altho all of us do all the sutras.. each one has his/her own favorite.. and maybe that is why shiddhis differ from people to people..
Thank you for sharing this.
-Shweta. |
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2006 : 07:43:22 AM
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Well, it seems to me this topic is currently not of great interest to the members of this forum. Probably most of them aren't ready yet.
I've been into deep Samyama for over 10 years, making the related research and contemplation of effects the primary concern of my existence. I've got a large number of achievements, experiences and discoveries in this field. I do feel like sharing it with some likely-minded people as I believe this is good both for my own further growth and for the other people. But, unfortunately, this forum is the best match I could find in the Internet to suite the area of Samyama research, yet everything I read here is quite at the 'kindergarten level' and the basic things I'd gone through years back.
A few remarks I'd like to leave here for the meanwhile, in case someone more mature and interested in serious spiritual research comes across this information.
* Both meditation and Samyama are basically not the means to bring you 'bliss' and 'supreme satisfaction'. In my view, most people here (especially the beginners) indulge into this 'bliss' thing and fail to move on to contemplation of more profound and subtle energy levels. While it is definitely true that proper spiritual practice would bring you 'bliss' and 'freedom' you could not imagine within the material routine, it is in the absence of desires (including the absence of desires of 'bliss') that this is achieved. Meditation is a dynamic process, which purifies the mind and energy system, thus enabling to perceive and handle more and more subtle levels of energy. As long as you linger to the thoughts and feelings of 'silence', 'light' and others alike, you are actually hampering your own progress towards these very ‘silence’ and ‘light’, as they are beyond your imaginations, based on which are the experiences you are attaching yourself to; they are on more subtle levels, to which you must yet come by leaving the warm and nice feelings you are attached to and plunging into the unknown, which in some cases might welcome you with harsh problems and inconsistencies arising from your inability to handle the new energy levels properly. Only with the time would you eventually master them and reap the fruits of your practice.
* When your mind becomes more pure, you (or at least some of you, as I hope) will find out, that between the level of Unknown Absolute Silence and the level of expressed thought, which assembles the reality of your material life, there is a level of astrological energies. You can not receive even one single thought without passing through that astrological level. Your every thought is impregnated with the astrological energies. And you are actually awakening certain energy currents from that level by your thoughts, be it consciously or unconsciously. On a more subtle level any mantra or sutra also goes through that astrological level before getting you into the 'silence' and right after emerging from the 'silence'. Depending on that which mantra or sutra you are using this level will have its effects, which in turn are different for each person based on a given person's natal chart.
* As your mind becomes even more pure and independent from the collective consciousness, which has its own strong energy currents and aggregations, your energy system becomes very much reflective of the particular astrological carrier-energies which you awaken by your meditation/samyama/thoughts. There's a huge field of effects and phenomena related to that level of experience. As far as I know these are practically not described in any spirituality or astrology related literature available in today's world.
* I am researching this level and have a lot of things to share. However, it requires the same, or close level of perception of energy currents for a person to share this information with. Otherwise the words fail to communicate the truth one is experiencing. If you think you are such a person, please consider this an invitation to cooperation in spiritual research.
* For those of you who seriously go into Samyama but have not yet achieved clear understanding of what it actually gives them, I'd only like to leave a warning: NOT EVERY MANTRA/SUTRA IS GOOD FOR THE GIVEN PERSON. THE EFFECTS OF ANY MANTRA/SUTRA MAY BE DESTRUCTIVE IN MANY WAYS (provided your meditation/samyaya is deep, clear and powerful enough) IF THE CHOSEN MANTRA/SUTRA IS ASSOCIATED WITH BAD ENERGY CURRENTS OF THE ASTROLOGICAL LEVEL (which may be the case with practically any mantra/sutra depending on the particular natal chart). On the other hand, there are ways to make your meditation/samyama flawless, pure and perfect beyond all your previous experience, if you know how to handle the astrological connections. There's also a lot of new control over the abilities which unfold in your mind if you activate the right energies in the proper way.
* And, last but not least, for all those who have doubts: I am not an astrologer merchandising my potential consultations and trying to gain a few new customers here. I don't sell astrological/samyama or any other spirituality related consultations/products/teachings. I am a researcher in the field of consciousness, trying to communicate a message to a potential fellow-researcher.
Good luck.
P.S. To test whether you are getting to understand the topic I'm trying to start, try Samyama with several planets (e.g. Sun, Moon, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus). Contemplate your life-flow, your energy and your thoughts. If you can clearly feel the difference your Samyama brings to your energy/thoughts and the effects thereof, then you might be ready to continue this discussion. If you do try this, I don't recommend you to take the malefic energies (Mars and Saturn) for the beginning stages. In most cases they only bring you harm, just in as much as your Samyama would make any significant effect at all. The malefics give good effects only in very few locations and must be handled properly (balanced with sattvic energies). The planets which give positive or mildly negative effects in most locations are Moon and Mercury. These are the best for a relatively safe experiment. Sun is good to notice any effects at all (if you are having problems with this) because of its energy strength and prominence, but it is destructive in many locations. Anyway, if your Samyama is shallow (which, in my view, unfortunately, is the case for most members of this forum) you are not going to get any distinctive effects -- neither destructive nor positive. As soon as your Samyama becomes deep enough to become destructive, I guess you should also start feeling its real effects and be able to fix the problem. Anyway, Sun is good for a starter. Samyama must be constant for a period of at least a week (minimum 3-4 days). This is the time which enables human energy system to accumulate enough energy for it to become expressive. |
Edited by - Naz on Nov 29 2006 07:55:59 AM |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2006 : 09:24:05 AM
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Thanks a lot Naz,
I think it all depends on where you (or I) put one's emphasis.
We are mature in some fields and immature in other fields.
May be when I am ready I will come back to you
L&L
Wolfgang |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2006 : 10:35:07 AM
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Hi Naz
I've never been much into astrology but acknowledge that there seems to be strong connections within the different signs of the zodiac.
I would not describe myself as being advanced in samyama by a long shot, but just on cursary quick samyama on the four planets you mentioned I got completely different energies from all of them. I was attracted to Sun and Venus with some warmth from Jupitor.
My natural orientation would be zen, here and now, and I would relate to relinquishing all desires in the way you describe. I think if you examine the AYP system you will see it is also about this although it uses a system of duality to get there. This, as I see it, is much more accessable to the ordinary joe, like most of us, but can also help greatly, a person who has been involved in the non-dual zen type approach.
I find your explantations about astrology to be very interesting, for the moment as least, and will give the samyama exercise a try over a few days.
Thanks for the input
Louis
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2006 : 5:24:36 PM
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Dear Naz,
I have not read your original post before having come on to the forum after you posted it, but I can concur entirely with your idea that when focussing on specific planets their energies manifest according to our own horoscope. And there is something like current planetary energies at work as well (see below re the next Full Moon)
My own investigation with astrology and the spiritual path has had more to do up till now with the effects of transitting planets and the natal charts vis-a-vis awakenings, and the path itself. I know of no one either combining these two things.
The trouble with us would be, that you are most likely working with vedic astrology and I am using western astrology solely, so our language is different and incompatible.
Beyond that, I have only practiced Samyama for a few months and thus am at the kindergarten level entirely. I am simply using the 9 ideas that the AYP lessons give. We can probably correlate the planets with it as follows:
Love : Venus
Radiance : Sun
Unity : Neptune
Health : Sun
Strength : Mars (or Mars/Saturn the positive way)
Abundance :Jupiter
Wisdom : Jupiter (or Jupiter/Saturn combined)
Inner Sensuality : Venus (or Moon/Venus?)
Akasha – Lightness of Air : Neptune (or Uranus/Neptune)
If you use traditional Vedic astrology, you probably will not even use Neptune and Uranus :-)
The next Full Moon is square Uranus, which is highly electric. (It is Tuesday Dcember 5th at 0:26 UT time) - Uranus provides awakenings and higher “electrical conductivity”.
I am btw not so sure about the “kindergarten level” of the AYP lessons and its practitioners. It is however unheard of that people compare and openly discuss their experiences, it is a totally revolutionary concept. It gives answers to people maybe already for a long time on the spiritual path that they never had before! At least, that’s what happened to me. But as far as the specific AYP practices are concerned, yes, I am very much at the Kindergarten level, and feel it is one of the greatest blessings in my life. I have overcome deep hurdles on the spiritual path with it, and progressing steadily now in a manner that feels secure and under control. I can do without all the drastic stages I have encountered in the past personally:-) I have been on the look out for something safe for 15 years and it was only this summer that after another “mishap” I decided not to listen to anybody anymore and turn within entirely. I then did some research to find out things for myself on the internet and what do I find.? These lessons with “The Guru is within you. “ . I am now taking my own spiritual path in my own hands, and sometimes am in awe of what other people on these forums are doing or what they are accomplishing and sometimes also feel I am too much kindergarten to belong here. But the fruit of the matter is what kind of people we become right? Joyful and a bliss to others, right? Meantime, continue your research because of course it works, and you are entirely right in your assumptions re the planetary energies, maybe you are on the same track as Sri Yukteswar who was highly accomplished in vedic astrology? and if I weren’t so much in the kindergarten stage, it would be a shame I speak a different astrological language:-) but I can confirm on the universal level what you are suggesting and the experiences of Sparkle as described above also fit in entirely with traditional astrological meanings of the planets!
Best!
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2006 : 6:54:15 PM
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Hi Naz, and a belated welcome!
While I am not an astrologer either, I welcome your research here.
Of course, the best way to get at the truth is to find it in ourselves. It is also pretty important to find others who can confirm what we are experiencing to whatever degree is possible and to help advance the research by uncovering new angles, and, most importantly, to help us get beyond our own illusions about what we are doing. Then everyone grows. It seems to be what you are looking for. That is what we are up to here.
Though AYP has come originally from a refinement and integration of ancient practices from the traditions of bhakti, mantra, kriya, hatha, kundalini, tantra and other systems of yoga, there is certainly room for any other resources that can help enhance our progress, and planetary spiritual transformation while we are at it. To my way to thinking, that means knowledge and practices that can be used in practical ways by everyone with less and less hand-holding needed over time. Stars and planets or not, it will take a lot of people getting involved in effective, easy-to-use self-directed practices to make it happen. Perhaps it is written in the stars, because it seems to be happening. 
By your own admission, you are one of the only ones on the planet doing this kind of work. So the burden is really on you to convince the rest of us that you know what you are talking about, and that something practical can come from it. You have started doing so by offering some exercises, and a few have nibbled. That's good!
But I have to tell you that referring to experts in related fields as kindergartners in your field is not going to win you much serious attention -- not here, or anywhere. That would be the case even if we didn't know what we are doing here, which is a debatable point. Others might see you in exactly the same way from their own limited perspective. What good is that?
Spiritual communications begin with honoring people where they are right now, no matter where that is. Can we really know where they are? We are all divine beings wearing disguises, yes? That kind of recognition is one of the best measures of real spiritual progress. Not whether or not we have gone beyond whatever cosmic thingy we think we have gone beyond. It is happening right here, right now and that is all there is. How we do it here and now together is all that matters. The rest is all BS. See?
Okay, end of lecture.
If you haven't been miffed and gone off in a huff (caution, this is a test!), I for one would like to hear more about your work. But remember, we are a bunch of dummies here (angels in disguise), and you have to make it so easy that even a kindergartner can get it. Otherwise, who cares? Would you buy a computer that could only be operated by typing in all the code line by line on a black screen? If so, you have come to the wrong place. We all use graphical user interfaces here (I think), and many of us also go for the very powerful and easy-to-use yoga practitioner interfaces. It really does work, and we are making progress day by day. If you have some more of that, bring it on!
The guru is in you.
PS -- It should also be mentioned that in a month or so a new book on samyama is coming out, which will significantly expand on the applications of samyama in AYP. Interestingly, we will be going more cosmic, so your research may be timely, and perhaps even much needed and appreciated as we continue to move forward.
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2006 : 7:25:00 PM
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Naz,
There are people aware of various energy patters of planets, as it relates to subtle experience. It may do you well, and increase your scope of knowledge, to do research on the Writings of Hermes Trismegistus -the founder of Alchemy, Astrology, Writing, Philosophy, Etc., Etc. He was also called Idris, Thoth, Enoch, The Master of Masters, Hermes Thrice Great...
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe075.htm
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Nov 29 2006 7:58:23 PM |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2006 : 10:21:11 PM
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Hi Naz,
Welcome...Good to have you with us.
There are many practices out there, and many claim that what they have is 'the' one. One measure which I find useful is to see how 'open' a practioner or system is (some may prefer to call it 'evolved', 'humble', free of overt egoism). By that measure, AYP is a Master. By the same measure I find your seeming 'disdain'(?) at finding only 'kindergarten' levels here (your judgement) perplexing since you say you are so advanced in your practices in Samyama(an advanced practice by itself), and that you are at very 'pure' levels. What you say is interesting, but the way you say it contradicts what you are saying. Is it that you find it a waste of your time to interact with or convince people you find 'beneath your level'?
Yogini's parallels of AYP's samyama sutras to your planets insightful. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 02:09:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Naz
"everything I read here is quite at the 'kindergarten level'. Meditation and Samyama are basically not the means to bring...'bliss' and 'supreme satisfaction'. While it is definitely true that proper spiritual practice would bring...'bliss' and 'freedom', it is in the absence of desires...that this is achieved. As long as you linger" on "thoughts and feelings, you are actually hampering your own progress...based on...the experiences you are attaching yourself to...with harsh problems and inconsistencies arising from your inability" in "leaving the warm and nice feelings you are attached to and plunging into the unknown".
Naz:
I have taken the liberty of editing your rather lengthy and self-absorbed post, using an elementary technique of proof reading I learned from my Guru, to cut through all of the BS and highlight what I perceive to be your most pertinent and telling comments. 
To start, I found it mildly amusing that you arrogantly criticize others for employing legitimate, traditional methods of Samyama, Dharana, and Dhyana....time proven methods which have led earnest Sadhakas to the highest levels of Samadhi for several millenia to date. And apparently, merely because they do not necessarily focus specifically on Jyotisha and Navagraha themes according to your own personal preferences. What a hoot! 
By your own words of discrimination and judgement, are YOU not "hampering YOUR own progress...based on...the experiences YOU are attaching YOURSELF to" so long as you linger on your own "thoughts and feelings" of egoistic self-aggrandizement and inflated self-importance as a self-appointed authority? Your perspective is fraught "with harsh problems and inconsistencies arising from your inability" to leave "the warm and nice feelings you are attached to" for the sake of "plunging into the unknown". I see no "absence of desires" in all of that whatsoever that would indicate a productive Sadhana of any kind!
I suspect that your "kindergarten level" egoism does very little to win new converts to your point of view, here or anywhere!  Thus, your attitude is ultimately its own reward alone, so enjoy it while it lasts! 
For those who are interested in further information on the original topic of this thread, check out the following links:
http://www.saigan.com/heritage/gods/navag.jpg (Planetary Deities)
http://www.webonautics.com/mytholog...vagraha.html
http://www.trsiyengar.com/id21.shtml
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Dec 01 2006 04:42:02 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 06:14:51 AM
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We all have ego moments where we get ahead of ourselves and experience spiritual insights we may deem universally revolutionary/new, or, ironically feel the need to correct another person based on our own knowledge/understanding, which we consider closer to reality. Paradoxically, this causes us to humbly take a look in our own mirrors, since the very things that bother us the most, in another person, is the same hindrance within ourselves.
And so through self inquiry we contemplate why we are attached or feel a certain way toward these things and uproot the dross from the mirror - Which causes detachment, or spiritual indifference, until, God willing, we become spotless mirrors reflecting back only that which is beneficial to a person. Hence, the words of Baha'u'llah:
"One hour's reflection is preferable to seventy years of pious worship".
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Dec 01 2006 07:31:21 AM |
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 11:35:21 AM
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Thanks everyone for your replies.
I see many people here more or less unhappy about me putting them at the 'kindergarten level'. Well, no offence is intended. From my subjective point of view (which may be fully or partially wrong as seen through somebody else’s eyes) you, unfortunately including all of you who replied my messages in this topic, are definitely quite at the 'kindergarten level' in your Samyama practice. And even much below that in understanding and perceiving the planetary energies.
That does not make me very proud of my achievements (be they real or alleged), because they are nothing but a handful of sand in a desert, scattering through my fingers and leaving but a distant memory of how it felt when I thought I was holding them. I am always at the kindergarten level relative to the vast unknown of the Universe, this is a natural state. I also found out that it's the only state which lets me effectively gather new knowledge and experiences beyond the limits of the things that can be learned from humans, here and now. I wish I could find a few more kindergarteners to join in exploring the new exciting worlds that are within the reach of just a few insights. I am actually so sorry some people here seem to be so extremely advanced they don't even bother to give a chance of existence to something that is not within their advanced field of understanding...
Now, my personal few words to everyone who kindly joined the discussion…
Wolfgang: Thank you. Of course, I am very immature in many fields in which other people are very mature relative to me. And of course, there are fields that are out of my scope of view and which are accessible to other people. I pray God give me the humbleness and learning attitude to be able to adopt all the good things from all those people. My emphasis is on following the guiding voice within me. As for now it’s been guiding me for the last 10 years or so through thousands of situations and experiences, revealing the secret knowledge of the planetary energies and how they influence the unfolding karma of the humans born here on Earth. It also showed me how to guide the way one’s karma unfolds and how to see the benefits and losses of different styles of movement through the time.
It might be a burden for me if you come back to me. So, better come back to the God. If God sends you back to me, consider coming to me.
As I mentioned before: I am a researcher in the field of consciousness looking for the fellow researchers. I am not naturally inclined to be a Master, a Teacher or anything of that kind. I am not trying to convert anyone into my beliefs or gather an army of supporters of my points of view. In fact, I would be thankful to anyone who would insightfully help me get rid of some of my illusions or wrongly conceived ideas. Yet, in as far as I feel it being pertinent I am going to come out with new knowledge and things I’ve perceived and bring them to those who would be ready to listen and pick it up. That’s the way it goes: as you give, so shall you receive.
Sparkle (Louis): If you feel the different energies of the Planets during your samyama just on a cursory round, I can only advise you to make your samyama permanent with a planet of your preference and explore all the effects it would have on the course of your life and your thoughts. There are hundreds of effects to explore, especially in the area of energy connections with the people around you. They change completely with every true change of your samyama planet. Your enemies may become your best friends, and vice versa. You may start defending the views and life principles you were fighting against your whole previous conscious life. You may get into situations you’ve never even dreamed of before.
Now we’ll be going into the practical things: Venus energy is identical with the energy of Libra, which is the debilitation energy of the Sun. If your samyama joins these two energies you are going to get a debilitation effect in your thoughts. Also Sun and Venus are fierce enemies. A true and profound samyama with these two practiced simultaneously would make you feel a profound energy conflict inside your soul. I’ve tried to join them several times during my research and the results were always extremely bad. My recommendation is: avoid this combination.
Jupiter is Sun’s friend and a great benefic. These two energies do well when working together. Yet Jupiter belongs to a higher energy platform, while Sun is from a middle one. They have different approaches to energy handling. Jupiter is accepting and integrating, while Sun is liberating through sacrificial self-radiance. These energy concepts contradict each other when combined in one person’s energy system. They drain each other (in a positive way) and bring each other to the edge of their respective possibilities (i.e. make each other sacrifice their maximum to satisfy the positively approved need of the other), thus not letting you gain a stable and uniform energy flow.
So, my advice, choose just one of them. And contemplate your life-flow on all the energy levels available to your perception. Once you’ve mastered this and get a clear feeling of how easily you can change all the aspects of the flow of your life by just changing the planet of your samyama, it may be the time you start feeling there’s something else missing… At that time come back to me…
(to be continued in next messages…) |
Edited by - Naz on Dec 04 2006 10:48:02 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 1:00:50 PM
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Naz,
if you can say even with cmplete honesty, 'I am at the kindergarten level in this vast cosmos', this is no indicator whatsoever of humility of any kind, particularly in conjunction with the other things you are saying, which include stating that it is unfortunate that all the other people who have replied to you are at kindergarten level in Samyama.
In fact, I would be thankful to anyone who would insightfully help me get rid of some of my illusions or wrongly conceived ideas.
There's one in here: when you come into a situation and speak the way you have, that in itself will usually be sufficient to determine that other people are not interested in 'researching' with you. That will be true whether they are at kindergarten level or are equal or greater researchers than you.
If your focus really is in finding fellow researchers, you should be under no illusions that your demeanor is not self-defeating and counter-productive, in this or in any human community.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 10:00:20 PM
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Namaste David!
Well said indeed! Clearly stated, logical, and true. I hope you don't mind that I totally agree with you regarding Naz.
Hari OM!
Doc |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 11:02:27 PM
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OK Doc, looks like we'll have to agree to agree.  Hey, you got any comic-book pictures that say it all here?  |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 03 2006 11:05:26 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 01:05:55 AM
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Let me see what I can find.
I'll bet I can come up with something appropriate!
Doc |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 09:42:57 AM
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Hey on second thoughts, best be careful, we might both be hauled in front of the Camp Counsellor....
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Naz
37 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 10:17:52 AM
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David: Thanks. Your remarks are very much appreciated. You are completely right. I definitely have too much of overt egotism. As I try to follow all my inner impulses according to any samyama practice I go into, my excessive egotism is the first thing to come out and be released together with any other more or less useful things. Here actually I very much concur with the remarks of VIL in his second message. Still, as I believe this to be a purification process, I do not think it would be better to press all that egotism within and not let it be released.
Going into more abstract matters: I believe any human is actually far from the ideal balance of the inward and outward flows of attention. Some, like me here, have excessive egotism, while others are too much into the altruism, which pushes them to direct their deeds to the other persons or outward ideas. For the egotists in my view the impersonal forms of spiritual practice are closer and more natural, while for the altruists the personal worship is preferable. Both paths ultimately are getting the spiritual seeker closer and closer to the same effect of perceiving the Absolute Reality. However, while being still impure, which is the case for all the seekers here on Earth, the altruists predominantly bring all their impurities on the heads of those they direct their altruism to, while the egotists are predominantly brewing their impurities within themselves. Both the paths require self-purification, be it for the sake of the others they are trying to serve (for the altruists) or for themselves (for the introverts). Both the paths also require some input from the opposite one. The introverts need self-expression (which may be only directed to the others in the field of duality) to better see their impurities. The altruists require self-improvement and the inward direction of attention to address the matters pertaining to being a better servant to their object of worship.
Going into even more abstract matters related to the planetary influences: There are two big groups of energies available to the humans. They are incompatible with each other in their form of expression. If you know the Hindu mythological reference to the churning of the ocean, there you may find an approximated allegorical description of how these groups are working together to create the amrita. Through samyama practice humans are able to activate in their energy systems the energy patterns of their own choice based on the elements belonging to both the groups. I experiment a lot with different patterns. And the results are not always positive and actually even when positive to some degree, they are never perfect enough. I still have many questions and new questions appear as I find more or less adequate answers to the previous ones. That is why I told that ‘unfortunately’ people I find here are very far from the level I am working on. It is very unfortunate for me in the first place, because I would be very happy to find some competent persons, who would enlighten me as to the matters I am trying to resolve… Well, to bring out the point of this paragraph: your (I am addressing David) predominant energy (which, by the way, I am able to perceive clearly enough for most people who address me) is from a different group than the one I am activating in my current pattern. And I can assure you that even if I prostrated in front of you and kissed your boots, you would still not be satisfied with the level and quality of my humility. The energy pattern I am currently using will be irritating for you any time I transgress the limits of conventional behaviour, any time I express myself freely and willingly or unwillingly bring out some imperfect or impure features inherent in my soul (and there are always some of these ‘bad’ features in any person on this Earth, the question is only – are you trying to hide them from the others, which always fails sooner or later, or are you making efforts to face them openly). With full confidence I can also tell you: there’s a lot of natural humility in my demeanor, but this humility will never do for you. There’s playfulness in my ‘disdain’ and ‘pride’. There’s self-mockery in my overt egotism. It is only the question of what you want to see. “It is in the eyes of the beholder”. If you are looking for the bad and imperfect things, you’ll find a lot of them. They are always there, moreover, I intentionally bring them out and even slightly overemphasize for people like you and Doc to have your fun finding and fighting them. On the other hand for you to see the positive and evolutionary side of my messages would require to step over your natural inclinations and ways of judgement, to overcome the domination of the Sun energy in your energy system and to be ‘above the gunas’ at least for a short time, to glimpse into a different pattern of perception and eventually to change your own pattern…
Doc: Thank you as well. There’s a lot of truth in your words and in your messages. I see your point very well. However, I am sorry to say, your form of expressing this truth is openly offensive and rude. If I am allowed to mirror your style: since BS-cleaning seems to be the most pertinent thing for you, you may be surprised to find out there’s a lot of it in your own house. And I do not believe that maliciously amusing yourself over someone’s faults and spiritual lameness (be they real or imagined) and making hoot out of it is very meritorious both to you and to your Guru (from whom, as you state, you’ve learned your style). While David basically makes a point very close to yours, his style of expression is much smoother and cultured, sound balance and reasoning are there to be marked. Your way (addressing Doc) is a way to hurt the people.
Making reference to the planetary matters: Both David and Doc are under the dominant influence of the Sun. However, in David’s mind the influence is well balanced and mostly auspicious (I think you have Sun or Leo in or close to the Karma Bhava of your chart). In Doc’s energy pattern the Sun is destructive to some degree. (The Tanu Bhava is most likely the location of the energy). This is still a medium extent of the destructive influence the Sun is capable of. In those truly bad locations the extent of damage caused by the inauspiciously Sun-dominated psyche to the native himself and to those around him is devastating…
[to be continued in next messages…] |
Edited by - Naz on Dec 04 2006 10:36:48 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 2:47:46 PM
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Hi Naz
Initially I was attracted more to Jupitor than the Sun, that is, when I had to choose between them at your suggestion.
Then this morning there was a conflict and the Sun kept coming into my mind and eventually muscled Jupitor out of the way.
So today I was going around with a sun blazing in my chest.
This evening (now 19.39 here) it seemed very natural once again to be with Jupitor.
On reflecttion it seems logical that this would happen - the sun at the start of the day and the more passive soothing Jupitor in the evening - at least that's what it feels like to me.
For some reason I was quite indifferent to your comments about levels of spirituallity. I would identify with the different energy theory in people, as similar comments made by another person could annoy be quite a lot.
I don't know what to expect in terms of changes that might occur, especially because the AYP practices are so powerful and instigate so many changes that distinguishing a difference between AYP and planetary and stellar samyama might be difficult - any clues?
Louis |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4374 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 7:34:14 PM
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Hi Naz,
quote:
Naz wrote:
While David basically makes a point very close to yours, his style of expression is much smoother and cultured, sound balance and reasoning are there to be marked. Your way (addressing Doc) is a way to hurt the people.
Making reference to the planetary matters: Both David and Doc are under the dominant influence of the Sun. However, in David’s mind the influence is well balanced and mostly auspicious (I think you have Sun or Leo in or close to the Karma Bhava of your chart). In Doc’s energy pattern the Sun is destructive to some degree. (The Tanu Bhava is most likely the location of the energy). This is still a medium extent of the destructive influence the Sun is capable of. In those truly bad locations the extent of damage caused by the inauspiciously Sun-dominated psyche to the native himself and to those around him is devastating…
[to be continued in next messages…]
Wow! What amazing stuff! I can't wait for the next installment...
How do you think David and Doc stand in their natal charts in respect to Mars and Saturn? I have been wondering this for a while.
What about Venus?
Love and light
Christi |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 8:58:25 PM
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Naz,
You're welcome! I'm glad you appreciated it!
And I can assure you that even if I prostrated in front of you and kissed your boots, you would still not be satisfied with the level and quality of my humility.
Hey slow down, you haven't figured me out so totally! I already see some real humility. The only thing to say now is how dare you show some real humility now and throw us for a loop!!
the question is only – are you trying to hide them from the others, which always fails sooner or later, or are you making efforts to face them openly
There's more to the question Naz --- another one is 'are you keeping them in check'. Keeping them in check is a natural follow-up to facing them openly --- isn't it?
There’s playfulness in my ‘disdain’ and ‘pride’. There’s self-mockery in my overt egotism.
I do believe that actually. You've already moved up from a female Dr. Evil to Morticia Adams in my book. (I know you can take that joke and laugh.) The thing is, the playful aspect doesn't come across easily in an online situation. What we experience of people here is reduced to a very thin bandwidth. The body language -- tone of voice, facial expression, movements, timing -- is gone, and a lot of the idle banter and fillers are gone.
They are always there, moreover, I intentionally bring them out and even slightly overemphasize for people like you and Doc to have your fun finding and fighting them.
Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Good one! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, ha ha! If you believe that one, I have 3000 miles of beachfront property one the east coast of Chile to sell you....
There's one piece of philosophical advice I'd like to pass on. Take responsibility for how you seem to others. That doesn't mean compromising what you are. Nor does it mean that the responsibility for how people receive you lies with you alone -- no matter how you behave, some people will receive you badly and have some responsibility for it. It means that you take enough responsibility for how you seem. It means you strike the right balance. What do you think?
OK, some practical things if you want to get the most out of being here. Let me tell you a rule I've always gone by here. I've had a lot of conversations here over time, some of them heated. I am no model of diplomacy or being easy to take. But one rule, one ethic I always follow is I never tell anyone anything about themselves that I think they are likely to find insulting. Strange, some will think, that I follow this, but true. Now, I do confront people's behavior; I do sometimes 'dish it back'; I do sometimes complain about what people are doing, and even say it is unfair or unwise or inappropriate. And I can be opinionated, argumentative, insistent and frustrating. But even in the face of the most insulting flames against me, I never, never, never tell anyone anything about themselves that I think they are likely to find insulting.
It works wonders for keeping the flames down, and has served me (and I think the forum) well. That doesn't mean it is for you. But think about it.
Thanks for your reply, I enjoyed it, (didn't necessarily agree with all of it) and I am interested in what comes next....
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 04 2006 11:45:03 PM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 10:06:03 PM
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Hope you don't mind this Raz...Naz.
You remind me alot of the Indian comic book character 'Batul the Great'. All puffed up and full of yourself. Seemingly impervious to the verbal bullets of negative feedback you invited by insulting others here. Then presuming further to look down from your supposedly elevated position in order to astrologically advise and counsel those who replied to you. What a hoot, man!
Kind of sad, too, in one sense, as I believe you have something of value to share with others regarding your area of special interest and research...if you could simply put the condescending BS aside, and just teach it straight out! That would actually be pretty cool.
In lieu of that, meanwhile, you aren't actually reading me, but are really only reading yourself. I merely made a modest effort to reflect your own negative energy back to you. Interesting that you judged this to be hurtful and excessive coming back to you, but apparently not so when sending it out to other folks. So take a long, deep look in your own mirror. There's plenty to read right there in front of you.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ul_cover.jpg
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Dec 05 2006 09:16:14 AM |
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2006 : 07:41:23 AM
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hi Naz
iam looking for peoples who can take things cool and positive and exchange useful messages in a loving and friendly manner. basically iam not doing any research, but trying to find out answers for many things in that way iam also a researcher and i love experiements and researching, without that life will be empty. I have some questions(i don't know the answer) to you regarding samyama and astro.
-> If a person makes samyama on imaginary or say for example "krishna", will it work and in which way? have you tried it? like its mentioned in "Patanjali Yoga Sutras" if anyone makes samyama on elephant that person will gain strength, those qualities will be activated within ourself (am i right?)
-> This creation with universe(s), galaxies, solar systems is a chain of cycles linked with cycles, for our life also we have a cycle, my question is when we are born our astro chart is made based on the planet and star positions, and our life will end when the same position reappears? (completing a cycle)
-> you mentioned that for everyone there is a seperate mantra/sutra, my astro sign is aquarius. any idea for this sign?
my question may be silly to you (not for me) because you categorized us as "kindergarten level", i will take it in a humorous way with LOL . so if you want to reply i hope it will be a knowledgeable with non aggressive words and in a friendly manner otherwise you (or anyone) can skip my post.
a warm welcome to you for this wonderful place (aypsite)
with Love
Kumar
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2006 : 10:49:37 AM
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Hi All:
Just a reminder to everyone that personal conflicts are off limits in the AYP forums, and are best taken elsewhere.
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On another subject -- this topic
Naz, you have not described the technique of samyama you are using. From the kinds of results you are decribing, it does not sound like the same technique we are using in AYP. The samyama method we use here does not produce negative effects such as sutras conflicting with each other, negative energies, etc. It is not possible, because pure bliss consciousness does not contain these qualities. A sutra, or combination of sutras, no matter how negative externally, or poorly arranged, will not produce a negative result when effectively dissolved in samadhi (pure bliss conscousness -- inner silence). There is always the possibility of excess purification going on in the nervous system, but that is simply too much of a good thing happening, and it can be regulated with prudent self-pacing, which is a staple in AYP.
So, the samyama technique itself is of far greater importance than the sutras we choose. Here we choose them for broad-based purification in the nervous system, and it is important to stick with a given set of sutras over time in daily practice, so they can go deep and do their work in stillness. If we keep pulling up and replacing a tree we have planted, it will not be easy to grow a tree. This does not mean we don't make adjustments in sutras once in a while, but we make them sparingly. It is the same with the AYP mantra and its several enhancements. We keep digging the well in one place to create the best opportunity for striking an abundance of water. And we do!
In AYP we are currently using "qualitative" sutras, laying the groundwork for "quantitative" sutras, which we will be adding in the new Samyama book. By "quantitative," I mean "dimensional" in terms of inner space and outer space, which are two aspects of our cosmic nature. In yoga, we are gradually cultivating and joining these in our conscious daily experience. It has far-reaching implications in the quality of our life.
The results you describe, Naz, sound like the effects of projecting consciousness through the sutras external to samadhi/absorption, and producing the various colors of those sutras without sufficient internal qualities of pure bliss consciousness -- so any kind of light or shadow can come out of it and create the kind of conflicts and negative effects you describe. I am sure it all makes sense astrologically with those kinds of projections happening. But that isn't samyama the way we think about it and do it here. Not knowing the specifics of your technique, it is hard to say more.
In AYP style samyama where the sutra is dissolved in inner silence, there is no color or shadow produced. In fact, if there is limited inner silence, little to nothing will be produced. To the extent there is abiding inner silence present in our nervous system (a function of our foundation in deep meditation practice), there will not be a coloring dominated by the sutra, rather a flavoring of pure bliss consciousness itself, which cannot be negative or conflicted by its own nature. For this same reason, we say that samyama of the AYP variety is "morally self-regulating" -- meaning, doing this samyama for the wrong reasons will not work. When there is inner silence present, and the technique is done correctly, easily and naturally, the results are always going to be positive and very powerful. And if inner silence isn't there, nothing much will happen.
From the classical point of view of Patanjali's yoga sutras, samyama encompasses the last three limbs of yoga -- dharana (attention touching the object/sutra), dhyana (the object/sutra released and dissolved), and samadhi (absorbed in pure bliss conscousness). All three qualities are necessary for samyama to be occurring. Samyama is not the projection of anything. It is a letting go into stillness. Everything finds its home in stillness and comes out naturally illuminated with divine purpose -- the entire cosmos! That obviously goes for all of our sutras, whether they be qualitative or quantitative/dimensional. No harm can come to us or anyone from any sutra that is used with the correct technique of samyama. Only by deliberately using a sutra externally can harm be produced, and we do not do that here -- that is not samyama.
So, if you are having conflicts and negativity coming from sutras, I'd say it is more likely a red flag on technique than on sutra selection.
For more info on AYP deep meditation and samyama technique, see:
http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
and
http://www.aypsite.org/149.html
...and the subsequent lessons for each.
Or review the appropriate AYP books.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Athma_Shakti
India
81 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2006 : 12:04:07 PM
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Wonderful Post with Excellent Explanations Yogani, as always you do
I got answer for my first and third questions.
Thank You
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Samyama with planets & stellar formations
