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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
 Posted - May 01 2014 : 2:59:16 PM
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Hello Riju.
The very thing you describe is what is perceived in Yoni Mudra even visually and the results of the practice of Vippasana are exactly identical to what occurs during the paravastha state of kriya where the outflows become inflows.
In fact during the practice of the Kriyas of Kriya one becomes aware of the outflows becoming inflows and this is not just limited to the paravastha state, this is done by becoming aware of the outward manifestations of prana as it can be sensed by the human sense organs of the body and then using them to go inwards beyond duality.
The person with some experience in this will at first become aware in different ways while practicing the techniques.
They may hear the sound of OM in it's various frequencies
They may see Light or Astral things.
They may feel pulsation, vibration,electrical like current, magnetic like phenomenon attraction and repulsion
They may even smell certain things astrally or taste in the same manner out of all of these only sight, hearing and feeling is used and usable to dissolve into.
Of these three the sense of feel is most important as this is the only sense we as humans have that permits us to experience a thing without there being an unbridgeable divide without there being a medium or a condition set forth to permit the sences to operate like an atmosphere even one of water or solid for that matter for sound to transmit. light reflecting off of object in order for light to be seen nor a need for an object to be observed as this sense among all others requires the most direct contact and the least amount of inference to operate or dependence upon anything other than direct contact, and allows for manipulation of whatever is separate.
Ah yes duality comes to mind does it not? Very true but how else does one approach from a state of duality to reach singularity rapidly other than by the tools available to the one in a dualistic state of being?
If one were to desire to do this would one not want to make use of the most efficient tools possible rather than sitting around being superficially aware of being aware for as long as their endurance holds out?
Is this not the way it is for beginners?
Is this not also false for those well versed in vippasana or at a certain stage such as yourself?
So it is with Kriya and I suspect it is also true of the AYP System in that it allows complete novices a path to what Vippasana would make more difficult for all but the most ripe.
Vippasana however is in the end exactly what other systems bring one to only the names differ so herein we see the wisdom of the one who performed sever austerities to come to this conclusion.
The case of the Buddha is very contradictory in that he performed all kind of austerities only in the end to renounce and condemn them and formulated a simply way for people to practice but here we must take some exception with following the advice of one who speaks of doing as he says rather than he has done, if we are fair and balanced in our analysis's it is plain to see that his plain truth was not arrived at plainly at all and this then requires faith.
Regardless the outcome is the same no matter the path taken.
The outcome is deep inner silence and Pure Awareness.
So the Kriyas of Kriya are sets of tools to go inwards via the agency of Prana as I have simply illustrated. When it comes to Kriya beginners or those with no real understanding of prana via experience this may not be the best path for quite some time, but can be with practice.
Bliss as you have previously correctly stated is outflows of inner silence which is what happens as one nears the singularity of self nearing the self and it is mind and witness awareness expanding on the wavefront of bliss that reach only apparent dissolution as they enter into a new dimension of singularity where a witness and witnessed are no longer present nor can a truer report ever be given of this here.
Here there are inflows but these inflows are happening in singularity a state of singularity therefore not explainable in dualistic language next expansion outwards.
This is a perpetual cycle
This is the cycle of life and death of the very universe but these are dualistic terms as neither are true, save for from a certain point of view. The view from the outside.
Dissolution in the end is only apparent as the outer expression of expansion or outflows are so spread out.
Outflows do not actually implode only to re-imerge again what happens is time stops at the point of maximum expansion.
When time stops expansion becomes singularity.
In current accepted theory after some time of this expansion and dissipation it appears that linear foreword moving time is in place during the expansion whereas it must logicaly reverses when all of the matter and energy has expanded past its furthest point and gravity starts pulling everything back to a singularity that when it has reached its inevitable conclusion burst forth once again.
I submit this model is faulty. This is due to time not being correctly understood. It alao presuposes that gravity has been at work from a central location the even horizon of the big bang the gig burst forth but this source has never been discovered just thought about.
I also submit that at the point of greatest expansion the force of gravity is too weak to create contraction and time which has ceased becomes the fudamental force in effect by its ceasing.
But this is a poor illustration as it gives rise to a balloon expanding and contracting when this is not the case at all. From direct experiential perception from the practice of Yoni Mudra this is how it happens.
Time only exists during the outflows the expansion that is all. Time itself is an artifact of expansion when expansion ceases so does time.
When witness ceases so does time. When time ceases expansion begins anew from self from singularity.
I can tell all reading what happens is there is seen what appears to be a black hole with a ring of plasma around it, as we know is the result of supermassive stars going Nova our little systems sun will never nova it lacks sufficient mass.
This is perceived as if in in deep space with stars around as awareness approaches this black hole this what appears to be super nova remnant the stars are perceived as moving but the question is, is it awareness that is moving? is it space or is it the ring of plasma?
Nothing is moving awareness is merely orienting on the self in such a way that it can perceive and this alignment translates to the brain as movement. So the apparent expansion of stellar ring towards the witness over and over.
When you enter the center the self will appear as a thin 5 pointed white star from a distance ( arms outstretched legs apart and head ) this person body is not seen. A 5 pointed thin white star is seen and perceive the self you will find yourself in a body made of Golden light approximating the physical asana you are in your stature will be such that galaxies are as a childs play thing in scale and all around you in a primordial sea of plasma like golden semi viscous stellar material the cosmos itself.
Having awareness of this is why Riju I find your writing though somewhat fanciful seeming at times to be of interest for who would believe you save for another who has witnessed what you describe?
Still I would caution this is not the end all nor be all and is equally a dead end this Godhhood concept and creating a universe for expression is not the final expression or purpose for that the final destination of human evolution I lack direct experience to tell but it is far beyond this. These are just Astral constructs and it is my sincere desire to express to you that investing in this is fine if you wish to but not what you might hope it to be. One must also consider such things are reflections of an impermanent personalities desire to continue and not be too heavily counted on.
The other end of a balck hole is not a white hole nor is it a portal to another dimension or universe. A black hole is just that the events of a big bang event on a solar or galactic scale rather than a universal scale. The black hole is a singularity and as such can also be described as the cessation of time which requires at least two parties to exist the cessation of time is state of singulatrity the beginning of time and a fresh expansion or outflow if you will.
The realm of demigods, principalities and powers are all astral. All impermenant and as such Neti Neti. |
Edited by - Experientialknowing on May 01 2014 4:36:01 PM |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2014 : 12:00:59 AM
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Experientialknowing
Hello Riju.
The realm of demigods, principalities and powers are all astral. All impermenant and as such Neti Neti.
Thought provoking letter of yours and I enjoyed it. You are an expert on writing long and expressive letters in a short time. I would take a week to write such a long letter.
But I am going to comments, express my views on many of your sentences . You will have to have patience. I hope to progress slowly day by day.
But first a dream of mine that I saw in my sleep this night.
A Super God/ Creator is sitting on a office chair managing the working of this whole universe of galaxis, stars. And I (a common man)
is sitting opposite to him in a simple chair.
Suddenly a huge gathering of Gods, demigods, yogi gods,etc. etc. enter the office. These persons have become Gods etc. through various austerity practices.
I (riju) feel too small in their presence and make an effort to leave the office. I feel that this managing of universe is a big job and the
Super God with the help of small gods can manage this job. I might be a hinderence.
Super God makes a gesture to me to sit down and not to leave the office.
The Gods protest my sitting with the Super God while they help by remaining outside the office.
The Super God replies to various Gods that Riju has perfected this science of Inflows. He is the only one who will become capable of entering the black hole along with me and help us to design a future universe. You with all your methods will remain outside to work again from your existing level in the new universe after a very long time.
( I actually saw this dream and I am not fabricating a story and before even I had received this letter of yours)
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Edited by - riju on May 02 2014 02:07:30 AM |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2014 : 12:47:05 AM
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quote:
[quote]Originally posted by Experientialknowing
Hello Riju.
The very thing you describe is what is perceived in Yoni Mudra even visually and the results of the practice of Vippasana are exactly identical to what occurs during the paravastha state of kriya where the outflows become inflows.
In fact during the practice of the Kriyas of Kriya one becomes aware of the outflows becoming inflows and this is not just limited to the paravastha state, this is done by becoming aware of the outward manifestations of prana as it can be sensed by the human sense organs of the body and then using them to go inwards beyond duality.
The person with some experience in this will at first become aware in different ways while practicing the techniques.
They may hear the sound of OM in it's various frequencies
They may see Light or Astral things.
They may feel pulsation, vibration,electrical like current, magnetic like phenomenon attraction and repulsion
They may even smell certain things astrally or taste in the same manner out of all of these only sight, hearing and feeling is used and usable to dissolve into.
Of these three the sense of feel is most important as this is the only sense we as humans have that permits us to experience a thing without there being an unbridgeable divide without there being a medium or a condition set forth to permit the sences to operate like an atmosphere even one of water or solid for that matter for sound to transmit. light reflecting off of object in order for light to be seen nor a need for an object to be observed as this sense among all others requires the most direct contact and the least amount of inference to operate or dependence upon anything other than direct contact, and allows for manipulation of whatever is separate.
Here I understand and agree with you. Smell, taste, light , sound and organs and body parts (touch) are all some form of matter. ( This explanations is for those who are not science students.)
All the yogic methods (I have not practised but can understand them) are bringing together matter and cosmic energy together according to the capability of the system practised.
But they all end in EMPTINESS. As soon as they climb the peak of EGO,
one becomes an Arhat without WISDOMS.
There may be SOME RARE ONES who understand the importance of WISDOMS
and they are not entrapped by bliss. They will be capable of diverting their method of meditation at levels below where EGO starts.
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2014 : 12:52:25 AM
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AT A CERTAIN STAGE ONE HAS TO DIVERT INFLOWS TOWARDS WISDOMS BY CHANGING THE METHOD TOWAREDS PRAGAYA/PRAJANA MEDITATION. HIGHER ONE CLIMBS DIFFICULT IT WILL BECOME FOR ONE TO DIVERT.
AT HUMAN LEVEL VIPASSANA LEADS ONE TO PRAGYA/ PRAJANA MEDITAION AUTOMATICALLY, IF ONLY ONE LIVES
AMONG OTHER HUMANS. |
Edited by - riju on May 02 2014 08:17:55 AM |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2014 : 01:43:41 AM
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quote:
[quote]Originally posted by Experientialknowing
Hello Riju.
Ah yes duality comes to mind does it not? Very true but how else does one approach from a state of duality to reach singularity rapidly other than by the tools available to the one in a dualistic state of being?
Nirvan is the state where duality ends. Lotus sutra explains this Nirvan a stage of singularity. But there is no rapid way available.
Just imagine a SPHERE space....a space of NIRVAN
It is surrounding by millions of Buddhas.
Each Buddha is in duality ruling over a vast number of galaxis and stars in his indivitual sphere of space. He is ruling because of various WISDOMS that He has collected on the path upwards.
After a certain period of time of His ruling when he has stabilised the system and handed over to a suitable successor, He decides to end His duality. He then enters this space of NIRVAN. His world system slowy dies away leaving behind various WISDOMS for future BUDDHAS and the sphere of space disappears. AND THIS BUDDHA HAS ACHIEVED SINGULARITY. |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2014 : 03:02:12 AM
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quote:
[quote]Originally posted by Experientialknowing
Hello Riju.
If one were to desire to do this would one not want to make use of the most efficient tools possible rather than sitting around being superficially aware of being aware for as long as their endurance holds out?
Is this not the way it is for beginners?
Is this not also false for those well versed in vippasana or at a certain stage such as yourself?
So it is with Kriya and I suspect it is also true of the AYP System in that it allows complete novices a path to what Vippasana would make more difficult for all but the most ripe.
Vippasana however is in the end exactly what other systems bring one to only the names differ so herein we see the wisdom of the one who performed sever austerities to come to this conclusion.
The case of the Buddha is very contradictory in that he performed all kind of austerities only in the end to renounce and condemn them and formulated a simply way for people to practice but here we must take some exception with following the advice of one who speaks of doing as he says rather than he has done, if we are fair and balanced in our analysis's it is plain to see that his plain truth was not arrived at plainly at all and this then requires faith.
Regardless the outcome is the same no matter the path taken.
The outcome is deep inner silence and Pure Awareness.
Here I disagree with what is mostly written above. I am all for BUDDHA WISDOM. He avoided austerities and ultimately arrived at the path of WISDOM.
I have explained the reasons in my both threads and yet I know it is difficult to understand. I will now reply back with two actual experiences that both Riju and Guatam have gone through albeit in a different way.
Guatam buddha realised the WISDOM within sphere of this earth of deep darkness. And hence HE IS THE GREATEST WARRIOR. Riju's path is much easier as it is already illuminated by the LIGHT of Guatam's WISDOM.
So let me start with easy actual method of Riju in the coming letter.
And then I will let out the method, whereby I will explain that a
great preparations that went in astral world for Guatam Buddha birth and illumination of this earth.
I still advice to read and re-read whatever I have written on this site earlier on Lotus sutra and on Inflows and Outflows. I assure you that this effort might result in greatest reward for one doing so.
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2014 : 08:29:38 AM
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Hi Riju,
Thank you for sharing your insights. Above you stated that you have mastered your inflows such that you are ready for going to a new "creation" universe. To create such a new world, does one not also need to master the outflow to give life/form to the universe?
Also, you talked about when a Buddha hands over to a suitable successor and leaves duality... does it seem to you that the human world system is nearing such a point? That there will soon be a manifestation of the twin tower (or many jeweled) Buddha as described in the Lotus sutra? |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2014 : 12:03:14 AM
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quote:
If one were to desire to do this would one not want to make use of the most efficient tools possible rather than sitting around being superficially aware of being aware for as long as their endurance holds out?
Is this not the way it is for beginners?
Is this not also false for those well versed in vippasana or at a certain stage such as yourself?
Vipassana with awareness taught Riju many things.
1. Mind and matter are connected
2. Awareness has the power to change every type of mind and matter in my body
3.Awareness creates so called EMPTINESS, and emptiness behind emptiness made me to understand why Lotus sutra calls it EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT.
4. That Emptiness is in fact a potential hidden source of mind and matter
5.etc. etc. I can go on filling up the pages.
Even when we create part emptiness in our body, the mind gets concentrated and focussed and then gets filled with the VARIOUS TRUTHS OF NATURE.
This filling of emptiness from either the NATURE or the surroundings
cause INFLOWS.
And these continuous INFLOWS cause our mind and body to EXPAND and store almost everything we want, or desire, or add logic creativity or wisdom.
RIJU UNDERSTANDS THE POWER OF VIPASSANA MEDITATION ALONG WITH PRAGYA/PRAJANA.
PRAGYA/PRAJANA is done by following continuously a sequence of causes that are interconnected mentally. |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2014 : 12:28:27 AM
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quote:
[quote]Originally posted by jeff
Hi Riju,
Thank you for sharing your insights. Above you stated that you have mastered your inflows such that you are ready for going to a new "creation" universe. To create such a new world, does one not also need to master the outflow to give life/form to the universe?
Lotus sutra says that the Buddhas do this job in three stages.
1. Expansion by inflows with minimum necessary creation (outflows)for self survival. This goes on for billions of years.
2. Automatic expansion of creation due to cuases influenced by this Buddha. This is stable period and expansion of creation happens according to number of various WISDOMS he has collected during the period of EXPANSION. This period is not in his control. WISDOMS (collected during first stage) AND causes determine this period and can be millions to billions to trilions of years.
3. In the third stage Buddha enters NIRVAN and the creation dies away slowly after a very long period of time.
So Riju has given miminmum outflows for his basic existence and is in the first stage. |
Edited by - riju on May 03 2014 06:08:47 AM |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2014 : 12:30:36 AM
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Hi Riju,
Also, you talked about when a Buddha hands over to a suitable successor and leaves duality... does it seem to you that the human world system is nearing such a point? That there will soon be a manifestation of the twin tower (or many jeweled) Buddha as described in the Lotus sutra?
Buddha is in 2nd stage and my guess is that it may last for a few trillion years.
There is a chapter in Lotus sutra on "TREASURE TOWER". According to me it predicts ELECTRONIC AGE. It indicates early 2nd stage. |
Edited by - riju on May 03 2014 06:09:57 AM |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2014 : 04:04:21 AM
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quote:
Riju
And then I will let out the method, whereby I will explain that a
great preparations that went in astral world for Guatam Buddha birth and illumination of this earth.
Chapter 7 of lotus sutra (Phantom city) tells a lot about Guatam Buddha.
Million billion years back there was an EMPEROR BUDDHA. He had 16 sons. He ruled over a vast milkyway with billions of galaxis. He divided this milky way in 8 major portions in 8 different directions and with the help of his sons, he stabilised this universe.
Guatam Buddha is one of his sons.
The Emperor Buddha and his 15 sons have completed their jobs according to their Wisdoms. What ever was out of range of their Wisdoms got collected in one corner of the universe. In fact all the evilness, negativities are accumulated there. Guatam Buddha did not wind up. He wanted to enter this evil dark world and therby collect many more WISDOMS and then pure this part of universe. He calls this SAHA world in Lotus sutra.
(It is a long story. I can mention a brief summary if you do not want to read this lotus sutra on your own) |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2014 : 08:57:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riju
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by jeff
Hi Riju,
Also, you talked about when a Buddha hands over to a suitable successor and leaves duality... does it seem to you that the human world system is nearing such a point? That there will soon be a manifestation of the twin tower (or many jeweled) Buddha as described in the Lotus sutra?
Buddha is in 2nd stage and my guess is that it may last for a few trillion years.
There is a chapter in Lotus sutra on "TREASURE TOWER". According to me it predicts ELECTRONIC AGE. It indicates early 2nd stage.
Hi Riju,
I am sorry, but I disagree. 
The "treasure tower" Buddha is not the electronic age. The treasure tower Buddha is the manifestation of an "in system" Buddha(being). Such a Buddha requires the development of the system to support such a being. Such a being integrates both inflows and outflows, such that they are not separate.
Best wishes,
Jeff
(Edit - format fix) |
Edited by - jeff on May 03 2014 09:45:18 AM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2014 : 09:16:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riju
quote:
[quote]Originally posted by jeff
Hi Riju,
Thank you for sharing your insights. Above you stated that you have mastered your inflows such that you are ready for going to a new "creation" universe. To create such a new world, does one not also need to master the outflow to give life/form to the universe?
Lotus sutra says that the Buddhas do this job in three stages.
1. Expansion by inflows with minimum necessary creation (outflows)for self survival. This goes on for billions of years.
2. Automatic expansion of creation due to cuases influenced by this Buddha. This is stable period and expansion of creation happens according to number of various WISDOMS he has collected during the period of EXPANSION. This period is not in his control. WISDOMS (collected during first stage) AND causes determine this period and can be millions to billions to trilions of years.
3. In the third stage Buddha enters NIRVAN and the creation dies away slowly after a very long period of time.
So Riju has given miminmum outflows for his basic existence and is in the first stage.
Hi Riju,
I believe that the nature of Buddhahood is better described through the realization of "emptiness" in the Heart Sutra. The Heart Sutra states...
Void = Form and Form = Void
Your concept of "inflows" is equivalent to the first half of the equation, or Void = Form. In Classic Buddhism, this is the first stage or "emptiness of self". Where form (or everything) is seen to be nothing.
Your "outflows" relate to the second half, or Void = Form. This much deeper realization is one of creation from nothingness/void. It is required for a Buddha to be able to form anything (including a new world). This is the second stage of "emptiness of ultimate reality".
But, even that is not Buddhahood. The true realization of emptiness is when both are known to be the same thing. In your terms, Buddhahood would be when inflows and outflows are the same thing. Any percieved separation of the two is duality.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2014 : 11:48:28 AM
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| Hi Riju, I waited to see if you were done writing, let me know so I don't respond too soon. Thanks. |
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Indigo
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2014 : 10:55:15 PM
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Hello Jeff,
Just a quick question....... You wrote "The true realization of emptiness is when both are known to be the same thing." How does this differ from non-duality/Oneness? Perhaps the difference lays only in language/ terminology.
Why do Buddhists call it "Emptiness" instead of calling it Non-duality or Advaita?
Kind Regards, |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2014 : 11:21:09 PM
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quote:
Hi Riju,
I am sorry, but I disagree.
The "treasure tower" Buddha is not the electronic age. The treasure tower Buddha is the manifestation of an "in system" Buddha(being). Such a Buddha requires the development of the system to support such a being. Such a being integrates both inflows and outflows, such that they are not separate.
Best wishes,
Jeff
I stopped replying, as I was meditating on your reply. We had earlier also disagreed on this point.
I have come to this conclustion .......that my concept is the only thing right for me. If I leave this concept, whole of Lotus sutra and my meditation and my experiences of 22 years fall down.
My concept to me is like a picture made out of thousand pieces. If any one piece is replaced, the whole picture gets spoiled.
IN A SENSE I DIE FOR EVER AND EVER. |
Edited by - riju on May 04 2014 11:50:57 PM |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2014 : 11:32:14 PM
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quote:
Hi Riju,
I believe that the nature of Buddhahood is better described through the realization of "emptiness" in the Heart Sutra. The Heart Sutra states...
Void = Form and Form = Void
Your concept of "inflows" is equivalent to the first half of the equation, or Void = Form. In Classic Buddhism, this is the first stage or "emptiness of self". Where form (or everything) is seen to be nothing.
Your "outflows" relate to the second half, or Void = Form. This much deeper realization is one of creation from nothingness/void. It is required for a Buddha to be able to form anything (including a new world). This is the second stage of "emptiness of ultimate reality".
But, even that is not Buddhahood. The true realization of emptiness is when both are known to be the same thing. In your terms, Buddhahood would be when inflows and outflows are the same thing. Any percieved separation of the two is duality.
Best wishes,
Jeff
Jeff, this emptiness occurs at every stage, with every one, at every plane (there are 32 planes). This emptiness happens with each doze of AWARENESS even in animals.
Buddhas or even many WISDOM orienated bhoddisattvas do no send outflows at 1st stage except with SOME SERIOUS PURPOSE. And there are no outflows at all by buddhas in 2nd stage when they rule.
OUTFLOWS are for ordinary persons. OUTFLOWS are neti neti if one understands the laws of nature. |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2014 : 11:36:50 PM
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There is famous sentence in Lotus sutra." ALL BUDDHAS PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE ABIDE IN EMPTINESS AND FOLLOW THE PATH OF LOTUS SUTRA OF ONE VEHICLE."
At the time when one abides in emptiness (even animal), OUTFLOWS stop. INFLOWS may or may not happen. |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2014 : 11:42:03 PM
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Experientialknowing
Hi Riju, I waited to see if you were done writing, let me know so I don't respond too soon. Thanks.
Some of my replies to you have not been allowed by the moderator. The particular replies downgraded other systems with vipassana or awareness methods. I do mistakes sometimes in my enthusiasm. |
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riju
India
193 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2014 : 02:21:31 AM
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Indigo
Hello Jeff,
Just a quick question....... You wrote "The true realization of emptiness is when both are known to be the same thing." How does this differ from non-duality/Oneness? Perhaps the difference lays only in language/ terminology.
Why do Buddhists call it "Emptiness" instead of calling it Non-duality or Advaita?
Kind Regards,
May I comment one this>
There is all prevading EMPTINESS/AWARENESS (GOD). I have defined it my way earlier. This can be called Advaita/Non duality.
And there is emptiness that occurs in each of 32 planes, while practicing awareness. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2014 : 08:50:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riju
quote:
Hi Riju,
I am sorry, but I disagree.
The "treasure tower" Buddha is not the electronic age. The treasure tower Buddha is the manifestation of an "in system" Buddha(being). Such a Buddha requires the development of the system to support such a being. Such a being integrates both inflows and outflows, such that they are not separate.
Best wishes,
Jeff
I stopped replying, as I was meditating on your reply. We had earlier also disagreed on this point.
I have come to this conclustion .......that my concept is the only thing right for me. If I leave this concept, whole of Lotus sutra and my meditation and my experiences of 22 years fall down.
My concept to me is like a picture made out of thousand pieces. If any one piece is replaced, the whole picture gets spoiled.
IN A SENSE I DIE FOR EVER AND EVER.
Hi Riju,
Disagreement is fine, the nature of an interesting discussion. But for me, any "locked in" view is by definition trapped in mind. Also, do not views of pictures often change as one looks deeper and deeper? Is one ever really "done"?
Best,
Jeff |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2014 : 08:52:45 AM
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Too bad those might have been instructive. I too have written things that were viewed as inappropriate...... it happens.
If you feel what you wrote is of value I would invite you to send your writing to me via e-mail. Don't worry about downgrading something maybe it deserves to be downgraded.
Something I would also like to make clear is that I do not need to be right, I have opinions but that does not mean I am not ready to drop them, modify them or change them when presented with something of value, especially if it can demonstrate a better way or leads to new understanding.
Thanks for all the writing Riju I really do think, feel you are trying to get something across, so far I am not getting it.
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Originally posted by riju
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Originally posted by Experientialknowing
Hi Riju, I waited to see if you were done writing, let me know so I don't respond too soon. Thanks.
Some of my replies to you have not been allowed by the moderator. The particular replies downgraded other systems with vipassana or awareness methods. I do mistakes sometimes in my enthusiasm.
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2014 : 08:56:17 AM
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Originally posted by riju
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Hi Riju,
I believe that the nature of Buddhahood is better described through the realization of "emptiness" in the Heart Sutra. The Heart Sutra states...
Void = Form and Form = Void
Your concept of "inflows" is equivalent to the first half of the equation, or Void = Form. In Classic Buddhism, this is the first stage or "emptiness of self". Where form (or everything) is seen to be nothing.
Your "outflows" relate to the second half, or Void = Form. This much deeper realization is one of creation from nothingness/void. It is required for a Buddha to be able to form anything (including a new world). This is the second stage of "emptiness of ultimate reality".
But, even that is not Buddhahood. The true realization of emptiness is when both are known to be the same thing. In your terms, Buddhahood would be when inflows and outflows are the same thing. Any percieved separation of the two is duality.
Best wishes,
Jeff
Jeff, this emptiness occurs at every stage, with every one, at every plane (there are 32 planes). This emptiness happens with each doze of AWARENESS even in animals.
Buddhas or even many WISDOM orienated bhoddisattvas do no send outflows at 1st stage except with SOME SERIOUS PURPOSE. And there are no outflows at all by buddhas in 2nd stage when they rule.
OUTFLOWS are for ordinary persons. OUTFLOWS are neti neti if one understands the laws of nature.
Hi Riju,
Maybe it is that we have slightly different definitions of "outflow". When a Buddha "rules", the Buddha is fully integrated and stabilizing the buddhamind/existence. The buddha's "outflow" is the stable transmission of what beings perceive as "reality". When a Buddha changes this "base" transmission, reality for the beings in that stable bubble changes.
Regards,
Jeff |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2014 : 10:12:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Indigo
Hello Jeff,
Just a quick question....... You wrote "The true realization of emptiness is when both are known to be the same thing." How does this differ from non-duality/Oneness? Perhaps the difference lays only in language/ terminology.
Why do Buddhists call it "Emptiness" instead of calling it Non-duality or Advaita?
Kind Regards,
Hi Indigo,
In the Buddhist framework, emptiness is not seen as the same thing non-duality/oneness. Non-duality/oneness/consciousness is described as "buddhamind" or sometimes the "mind system". As one sort of dives deeper in consciousness (as Riju describes as 32 levels), one kind of integrates into deeper levels (or sees past the obstructions, issues and fears). Because of the drop of perceived barriers, that integration" creates a perception of non-duality/oneness.
But, as one increases Riju's "inflows", perception/view sort of expands (or deepens). Kind of like you are deep sea diving and build up the necessary energy to see at that depth/level. Often one mistakes such and expansion and felt freeness as "enlightenment". In Budhism, such declaration of being "done" is what gets other traditions sort of stuck and not finding the "ultimate realization".
As Riju stated, there are many sort of "levels" of the realization of emptiness. Probably the best description is found in the Lankavatara sutra. It describes seven types (or components) of emptiness. The form I was the describing above, is the realization of the "emptiness of ultimate reality", which gets associated with full Buddhahood.
In simple terms, emptiness is the "raw stuff" or God of which there is no "one". Oneness is sort of formed/transmitted by a Buddha to create a stable "bubble" for the development of individual beings (that can't handle the raw stuff).
Hope that description did not add to the confusion.
Feel free to ask any followup questions.
Best,
jeff |
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Indigo
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2014 : 6:35:02 PM
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Thank you Riju!
Indigo |
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INFLOWS -OUTFLOWS
