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bewell
1275 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 08:46:28 AM
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Thanks, Jeff, thanks Givinda, I enjoyed the exchange |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 11:41:41 AM
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Hi Govinda,
quote:
Originally posted by Govinda
Honestly Jeff, I personally feel that without gradual integration, some modicum of grounding the of transcendental Spirit and an attention towards an intricate balancing of our personal dreamscapes with the higher realms we encounter through ascension... such whiteouts are only marginally more beneficial than deep sleep states or for that matter, even blacking out (for whatever reason).
Shifting attention into the vacuum of the Clear Light of The Void is a most startling and overwhelming experience! It shakes the very foundation of one's cherished beliefs in even having a self which is not a passing fantasy, a lie based on learned behavior and mental projections.
While I would stop short of calling it Nirvikalpa Samadhi... in light of Sri Ramana Maharshi's cosmology, there are many parallels. Master Ramana felt that only when one is ALWAYS united with the supreme state, one is merely taking a short break from the confines of ego-consciousness. Does not the truly wise soul apply direct intent to consciously change/grow/evolve and so, embark upon a new dimension of oneself? 
Being drunken with God-intoxication is a blissful state, surely... but I feel we need to ground the ecstatic epiphany with steady integration and a gradual transformation in our understanding. So too, we are behooved to change our habitual behavior. Thus, when we consciously seek to see the Indivisible Light itself, shining blindingly upon all transient forms and gleaming beatifically within all manifestations of being, we are uniting Heaven and Earth.
I'm having a hard time expressing just how perfectly said the above is from my perspective. I have tried to make this exact point at least a dozen different times here at the AYP forums and probably a hundred times in other communications, each and every time feeling like I have failed at accurately conveying the intended message. I read this post late last night while taking a break from trying to complete a recent version of "my story" that is going into publication in a book at the end of the month and I had to stop everything and just sit and allow myself to be encompassed in the light that came through between your words of wisdom. And when I attempted to go back to working on the writing I couldn't put another word on the page because it felt impossible to match the level of poetic effulgence I had just experienced. I'm still stunned to be honest... it feels like you pulled the experience of Truth right out of my heart and painted a most radiant verbal picture of it. Thank you.
Love,
Carson  |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 11:54:11 AM
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Hi Carson,
You highlight a very excellent point made by Govinda. My favorite words were "we need to ground the ecstatic epiphany with steady integration and a gradual transformation in our understanding". Experiences are cool, but the integration is what matters... When meditation is the same as normal daily life, everything becomes "one".
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Edited by - jeff on Jun 14 2013 12:09:37 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 12:51:28 PM
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Hi Jeff,
Yes, the quote you picked was my favorite as well... but I would have included the next sentence also; "So too, we are behooved to change our habitual behavior." This is important to include I think and (for me) it has direct ties to this ongoing thread here http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=13016.
Something that I have noticed coming to the surface for investigation after letting Govinda's post sink into the depths, is how this all fits into "the role" we each have on this earthly plane. It's becoming increasingly obvious to me that we each have a role to play here and that how the "uniting of Heaven and Earth" manifests is entirely unique. That's all I can really say about it at this time without further investigation, but it would be interesting to hear other's perspectives. Perhaps a separate thread would be more appropriate for that discussion.
Love,
Carson |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 12:59:05 PM
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Hi Carson,
I understand your point regarding the additional line, but in the context, I think it might be better to say that we are behooved to "drop" our habitual behavior. To me, "change" implies the possibility of avoidance or that one must do something different.
I also like your idea on the new thread regarding "roles" that we each have to play. It raises very interesting questions into the the concepts of "free will" and the nature of "enlightenment".
Peace, Jeff |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 1:50:25 PM
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Hi Jeff,
quote:
Originally posted by jeff
I understand your point regarding the additional line, but in the context, I think it might be better to say that we are behooved to "drop" our habitual behavior. To me, "change" implies the possibility of avoidance or that one must do something different.
I see what you mean. I think the reason why the word "change" didn't bother me is because I took the statement in more of a symbolic or metaphoric way. "We" don't effect change (or drop anything)... change/dropping happens, it's not personal.
quote:
Originally posted by jeff
I also like your idea on the new thread regarding "roles" that we each have to play. It raises very interesting questions into the the concepts of "free will" and the nature of "enlightenment".
I'll wait until the words are ready to come out and then I'll start a new thread. 
Much Love,
Carson |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 2:06:33 PM
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@CarsonZi,
Thank you so much for the compliment! You flatter my ego, Carson. And I feel that perhaps you exaggerate the value of anything I've written here. When I re-read my posts in this thread, I kinda thought I was unable to put into words, exactly what I was really trying to say. But it's so nice to know you gleaned something applicable to your own sadhana, from any of my musings. You are too kind, my brother-friend. 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff
I understand your point regarding the additional line, but in the context, I think it might be better to say that we are behooved to "drop" our habitual behavior. To me, "change" implies the possibility of avoidance or that one must do something different.
@Jeff,
I chose the word "change" for two primary reasons. Firstly, I believe strongly that we do have free will and we can assuredly re-program the content of our own thoughts. But it requires direct intent and absolutely, much practical follow-through.
Secondly, it's because the human mind seems so addicted to ideas and imaginative scenarios played-out in the stage of our own heads. In my own meditational experiences, dropping habitual fixations or unfruitful traits, is much, much harder without replacing those things with other more useful thoughts or images, to intentionally conceive of willingly and determinedly.
For example, I was always prone to daydreaming, my entire childhood and beyond. It's easier said, stopping the mind, than done. Right? And when I attempted to stifle this tendency... it came bubbling up when I least wanted it to (like in sitting meditation or at work). So, I began to make choices. I decided to use the same part of my brain to visualize positive solutions to things beginning to get in my way, mentally, physically or even things which distracted me from my sadhana. It's the old adage: "Pick your poison". Only in this case, we choose Amitra over poison... and we seem to accomplish this choice by filling the vessel of our minds, with the more Sacred streams of ideas and Holier images.
Habits occupy the emptiness within our minds, even as they occupy the content of our dreams. And when we attempt to instantly erase all our routine thoughts or all the restless mental activity which leads us from our internal focus... it's a tough row to hoe. This is one reason I began to use mantra repetition as a younger person, since the Void was too much for my mind to embrace. Supplanting spiritual thoughts, concentrating upon sounds or inner visions, for the less beneficial imaginary ones, has been a great boost for my awakening soul's spiritual journey.
And through transformation and transmutation, we can effectively shift our focus with some remarkable degrees of determination and graceful force. I wish I could just simply drop all of my old habits and human flaws, my samskaras and my personal illusions. But for myself and many other folks I've compared notes with, it's a gradual and earnest effort to incrementally re-design the parameters of this dreamscape of ours. To re-program the ideas and transform the imagery allowed to dance before my mind's eye.
In my own tiny efforts to open my heart and still my own mind, I have needed to divert myself from the shimmering mirage, by creating a new paradigm within said mind. Call it creative visualization or avoidance... it fills the need for the I AM principle to clearly reflect the higher qualities, in direct preference to the more typical and ordinary ones generated by the worldly clatter all around us.
This process keys into the whiteout experiences and eclipsing modes of awareness I mentioned. These cause tremendous inspiration and a devout faith in the Divine presence. They also undermine the permanence of our ego-selves. For they teach us that we do not really exist in the ways we had been taught by our fellow human beings, as we are transient forms within an eternally changing universal dance.
Our reality is ultimately quite formless and without any dichotomous definitions or limitations. We are That. God is within each of us but we are growing souls, changelings in a growth cycle that demands our active, conscious participation.
For when we are dealing within the confines of a dualistic framework, positive and negative attributes filter into our heads. Even if one is highly practiced, the world just has this aggressive way of pushing itself into the realm of our thoughts. This is one of the reasons advanced Yogins seek solitude for their meditations and austerities.
So, re-creating a new matrix for our individual life dramas to inhabit and play to out within, is most useful towards re-shaping our way of thinking and our behavioral patterns. We sculpt a new and more harmonious persona to express our internal Atmic cores through. Envisioning new ideas and higher thought forms to fixate upon is just another method for our concentration. It ideally prompts us to look deeper within for more effulgence and listen more keenly for the Sacred vibration, humming inside of all that exists.
This is often very helpful and an effective technique to achieve lasting results in transforming our old patterns of behavior and our frail concepts about our true identity. And as I said before, without defined and intentional integration and actualization... it's really just a high trip to take. We encounter the Unified Field of Being and then retreat from it's perfection, to the comfort of our dream world.
But we must be alchemists and spiritual magicians too. We simply must change our mind-set to one that wholly alters our illusions or facilitates our spiritual development, or it's just another ride on the ole cosmic merry-go-round. Life is ceaseless change and we are all part of this endless transformation of energies.
I hope that made sense. Cause sometimes I really can't tell from re-reading my often verbose ramblings. Hehehe...Lol 
Hari Om Tat Sat
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Edited by - Govinda on Jun 14 2013 2:54:05 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 2:30:18 PM
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Hi Govinda
quote:
Originally posted by Govinda
Thank you so much for the compliment! You flatter my ego, Carson. And I feel that perhaps you exaggerate the value of anything I've written here. When I re-read my posts in this thread, I kinda thought I was unable to put into words, exactly what I was really trying to say. But it's so nice to know you gleaned something applicable to your own sadhana, from any of my musings. You are too kind, my brother-friend.
My apologies if I came across as intending to assign a value to your post... It wasn't so impactful for me because it was judged as being valuable but more so because it was like you took the essence of "my path" and expressed it in a poetic, yet extremely accurate way. Something I have repeatedly failed at doing. So again, thank you for sharing yourself here.
Love,
Carson |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 2:52:50 PM
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@CarsonZi,
Again, thank you for your kindness. Forgive me if I made you uncomfortable with my reply about your enthusiasm. It is an honor to be appreciated by a wonderful soul such as you. And I am only beginning to express what I am experiencing with any degree of verbal accuracy. So much cannot be encapsulated in human linguistics or by the written word, eh?
Namaste, CarsonZi |
Edited by - Govinda on Jun 14 2013 3:09:37 PM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 3:11:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Govinda
@Jeff,
I chose the word "change" for two primary reasons. Firstly, I believe strongly that we do have free will and we can assuredly re-program the content of our own thoughts. But it requires direct intent and absolutely, much practical follow-through.
Secondly, it's because the human mind seems so addicted to ideas and imaginative scenarios played-out in the stage of our heads. In my on experiences, dropping habitual fixations or unfruitful traits, is much, much harder without replacing those things with other more useful thoughts or images, to intentionally conceive of willingly and determinedly.
For example, I was always prone to daydreaming, my entire childhood and beyond. It's easier said, stopping the mind, than done. Right? And when I attempted to stifle this tendency... it came bubbling up when I least wanted it to (like in sitting meditation or at work). So, I began to make choices. I decided to use the same part of my brain to visualize positive solutions to things beginning to get in my way, mentally, physically or even things which distracted me from my sadhana. It's the old adage: "Pick your poison". Only in this case, we choose Amitra over poison... and we seem to accomplish this choice by filling the vessel of our minds, with the more Sacred streams of ideas and Holier images.
Habits occupy the emptiness within our minds, even as they occupy the content of our dreams. And when we attempt to instantly erase all our routine thoughts or all the restless mental activity which leads us from our internal focus... it's a tough row to hoe. This is one reason I began to use mantra repetition as a younger person, since the Void was too much for my mind to embrace. Supplanting spiritual thoughts, concentrating upon sounds or inner visions, for the less beneficial imaginary ones, has been a great boost for my awakening soul's spiritual journey.
And through transformation and transmutation, we can effectively shift our focus with some remarkable degrees of determination and graceful force. I wish I could just simply drop all of my old habits and human flaws, my samskaras and my personal illusions. But for myself and many other folks I've compared notes with, it's a gradual and earnest effort to incrementally re-design the parameters of this dreamscape of ours. To re-program the ideas and transform the imagery allowed to dance before my mind's eye.
In my own tiny efforts to open my heart and still my own mind, I have needed to divert myself from the shimmering mirage, by creating a new paradigm within said mind. Call it creative visualization or avoidance... it fills the need for the I AM principle to clearly reflect the higher qualities, in direct preference to the more typical and ordinary ones generated by the worldly clatter all around us.
This process keys into the whiteout experiences and eclipsing modes of awareness I mentioned. These cause tremendous inspiration and a devout faith in the Divine presence. They also undermine the permanence of our ego-selves. For they teach us that we do not really exist in the ways we had been taught by our fellow human beings, as we are transient forms within an eternally changing universal dance.
Our reality is ultimately quite formless and without any dichotomous definitions or limitations. We are That. God is within each of us but we are growing souls, changelings in a growth cycle that demands our active, conscious participation.
For when we are dealing within the confines of a dualistic framework, positive and negative attributes filter into our heads. Even if one is highly practiced, the world just has this aggressive way of pushing itself into the realm of our thoughts. This is one of the reasons advanced Yogins seek solitude for their meditations and austerities.
So, re-creating a new matrix for our individual life dramas to inhabit and play to out within, is most useful towards re-shaping our way of thinking and our behavioral patterns. We sculpt a new and more harmonious persona to express our internal Atmic cores through. Envisioning new ideas and higher thought forms to fixate upon is just another method for our concentration. It ideally prompts us to look deeper within for more effulgence and listen more keenly for the Sacred vibration, humming inside of all that exists.
This is often very helpful and an effective technique to achieve lasting results in transforming our old patterns of behavior and our frail concepts about our true identity. And as I said before, without defined and intentional integration and actualization... it's really just a high trip to take. We encounter the Unified Field of Being and then retreat from it's perfection, to the comfort of our dream world.
But we must be alchemists and spiritual magicians too. We simply must change our mind-set to one that wholly alters our illusions or facilitates our spiritual development, or it's just another ride on the ole cosmic merry-go-round. Life is ceaseless change and we are all part of this endless transformation of energies.
I hope that made sense. Cause sometimes I really can't tell from re-reading my often verbose ramblings. Hehehe...Lol
Hari Om Tat Sat
Hi Govinda,
I agree with Carson and think your words are beautiful and very poetic. I also agree with you that we have "choice" and think of us as each unique children of God. But, I ask in all sincerity, what is the difference between a "day dream" and "sacred streams of holier images"? Like you, I have experienced many "higher realms". But as you said, habits occupying the empty mind are what obscure the truth. Changing "bad" habits to "good" habits is fine, but good karma is still karma that obscures.
From my perspective, the key is dropping or letting go. Clarity comes from the ongoing reduction (or dropping) of issues, fears and obstructions. Realizing your own intrinsic awareness is found when...
1. Memories are clear and quiet, leaving no habits, fears or issues behind.
2. Thoughts about the future are fresh and unaffected by anything from the past.
3. And in the present moment, when your mind remains in its natural state without constructing or thinking about anything.
These three simple things describe the true and "clear" nature of mind and lay the platform for deeper realization and "enlightenment".
Love, Jeff |
Edited by - jeff on Jun 14 2013 3:12:59 PM |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 6:03:02 PM
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Interesting discussion.. Thank you all.
quote:
Originally posted by jeff
I also agree with you that we have "choice" and think of us as each unique children of God. But, I ask in all sincerity, what is the difference between a "day dream" and "sacred streams of holier images"? Like you, I have experienced many "higher realms". But as you said, habits occupying the empty mind are what obscure the truth. Changing "bad" habits to "good" habits is fine, but good karma is still karma that obscures.
From my perspective, the key is dropping or letting go. Clarity comes from the ongoing reduction (or dropping) of issues, fears and obstructions. Realizing your own intrinsic awareness is found when...
1. Memories are clear and quiet, leaving no habits, fears or issues behind.
2. Thoughts about the future are fresh and unaffected by anything from the past.
3. And in the present moment, when your mind remains in its natural state without constructing or thinking about anything.
Very nice Jeff. Essentially, this is the "uncoloring" of vasanas discussed multiple times on these forums. The uncoloring happens automatically with letting go of ego identification. I also agree that good karma is still karma, and stepping out of that is only through deidentification as the separate self.
So.. I'm trying to understand your concept of "choice" with respect to the points above. When is a "choice" made without being influenced by what one thinks is right or wrong, good or bad (based on past experiences or what might happen in the future)? Can you provide an example?
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2013 : 7:34:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami]
Very nice Jeff. Essentially, this is the "uncoloring" of vasanas discussed multiple times on these forums. The uncoloring happens automatically with letting go of ego identification. I also agree that good karma is still karma, and stepping out of that is only through deidentification as the separate self.
So.. I'm trying to understand your concept of "choice" with respect to the points above. When is a "choice" made without being influenced by what one thinks is right or wrong, good or bad (based on past experiences or what might happen in the future)? Can you provide an example?
Hi Kami,
Thank you for your comments. My perspective may be a little different than yours with respect to the "uncoloring" happening automatically with the dropping of ego identification. It is definitely important, but may not be sufficient. An example would be with an unconscious anger response. Some would say that it is not "them" and they are not attached to it, but that it is only a bodymind response. In effect, they may have deindentified themself as a separate self and deindentified themself from their own subconscious issues/obstructions, but they are only really "spiritually bypassing" an obvious obstruction.
Regarding the choice and free will concept... A topic like that can become very broad, beyond the scope of this thread and probably interesting to a larger audience. My suggestion is that is better for a new thread (or make it part of Carson's planned new thread described above). I will definitely join in.
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2013 : 08:59:10 AM
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Hi Jeff,
Thank you. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. I was referring to uncoloring as it relates to non-attachment. And non-attachment is not complete until the ego identification is also dropped. I totally agree that there can be spiritual bypassing, a common trap for all of us. It is a fine line between bypassing for example, anger, and deeper "holding on" to the ego identification with the thought that "I have let go of anger". Who has? Besides, believing one has let of something can result in disowning it without really letting go. In this case, one might want so badly to let go of anger that they can't see it arise in themselves when everyone else can..
With respect to choice, I was merely interested in your perspective as it relates specifically to what you said about the three points. But it's alright.
It seems like both perspectives - having choice/free will or not are equally true or equally false. Identified as the separate self, it is inevitable to believe we have it. From the other perspective (of dropping that identification), there is nobody there that ever had a choice. "Choice" seems to arise from colorings of the past or projection into the future or "shoulds" and "should nots". However, in being open and surrendering to what arises in the moment, there seems to be only that thing to do, without it being right or wrong (colored). This is simply my current experience, and it might change.
By the way, this discussion about free will is age old without any resolution.. When someone asked Ramana Maharshi if there was free will, his response was, "Inquire to whom this question arises. That is all that matters."
Much love. |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2013 : 10:22:00 AM
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Namaste, Folks.
I wholly agree that we need to let go and drop the ego sense of I AM, as it relates to deep meditation and our transcendental experiences... but what I was attempting to describe is that delicate cross-road, when we are being proactive in the world of apparent duality. Then, we are quite challenged to assume a framework and mind-set of direct intention. It requires creating a new vehicle and this demands free choice and decisive reprogramming. As Lord Buddha wisely said,
"As you think, so you shall become."
We are equally challenged to remain empty of all thought of I AM, in a dichotomous dynamic which demands thinking, feeling and acting. This is where change is most necessary and supplanting "good karma" for "bad karma" becomes dependent upon the Atmic mind and the Atmic heart. Who amongst us is free of any karma or samskara? Philosophically and intellectually, we have our favorite ideals and that is quite beautiful. So I do agree and do rejoice in our symmetries in these pure ideals.
And sure, karmic influence is still bondage to the illusion that all is not the unbroken current of Brahman, expressing Brahmanic Being... but when we as individuate reflections of the Absolute state, exercise action in the relative dance of life, we are not in an unmoving fulcrum of formless centering, we need to respond to our inter-phase with the transitory realm of Maya, and utilize thoughts, words, ideas, feelings and actions, as seamlessly and harmoniously as we are able to.
I am honestly not being challenging or assuming a defensive stance, with such a statement. It's my own way and I have been given lessons of remarkable specificity in direction, by my Master, Sri Babaji Maharaj. The messages I receive from his Holy Grace, are all about change, expansion, transmutation, attunement, refinement and mindful, proactive re-integration.
Nor am I really being debative here, at all... just attempting to clarify my vision. To share what I have found works for myself. Even though I do not really exist, as a separate part of the whole of Omniscient Being, I am taught by mankind and required by consensus reality, to pretend that I actually do. But there is still only One Being in existence and it expresses itself through all of our individuated dreamscapes.
So, surrender is a prerequisite to awakening, most surely. And as I spontaneously exchange energy with the rest of the world around me, it is my hope and intention to echo and reflect something of the Divine. We all share this incarnational predicament and each are voices in the universal chorus of Infinite Love.
I still sincerely maintain that we are called by the essence of the Indwelling Godhead, to project a bright vision of love, peace and universal equanimity. Granted, this takes considerable re-alignment and re-orientation. To speak and act with clarity and the flowering of direct intention. When we utilize the choices we make to better the lives of others in small ways. To speak from our hearts and share that love with others, and sing out what wisdom which we have gleaned from the immeasurable Light of Truth. Like the wise Oglala Sioux Medicine Man, Black Elk said,
"Dream a good dream."
In other words, manifest beauty and contribute to healing this troubled world, through direct intent and the choices we make on a moment-to-moment basis. We have the spiritual power, our God-given gift, to use our mental creativity to heal those in suffering, and hearts opening so wide as to love all of this vast creation, ever so effusively.
Ultimately, we are finding that place within ourselves where there is no action, no separation and no duality. That is reality and while I truly respect any ideas pertaining to these highly exalted states... I do emphasize a profound need to ground the Divine epiphany and to unite the Heavenly with the Earthly.
This then puts us in a place where we ought to do some cleaning-house and proactive organization of our thought-forms and assuredly, this involves free choice and the creation of a new world. As Christ said so eloquently,
"Behold, for I am making all things new again."
I personally see this phenomenon as shifting one's attention to the decision-making aspect of the meditative focus, as it freely moves through dimensions and interacts with the rest of this material paradigm. that interplay where all dreams mesh to form consensus reality (as we collectively know it).
IMHO, this is where transformation is of paramount significance. When the I thought drops... we are in a state of No Mind (as the Zen folks describe these things). If we are 100% within this fulcrum of attention, we might just walk right into a tree or step into busy, rush-hour traffic, not clearly differentiating between this or that. Action dictates defined thought-forms to be in bloom, even as inaction dissolves all passing mind bubbles, all temporary thought-forms into the shimmering Void.
Much as a newborn, we need to learn to navigate within the vast multiverse which manifests as physical life and the material plane. Many God-intoxicated Sadhus have gotten lost in such Divine madness and are essentially most helpless in the context of the dualistic realm of being a human in a world of constant change and flux. Hence, the direct need for integration of body-mind-spirit and the dynamic process of internal cultivation. such activities require much change and much devotion.
Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti |
Edited by - Govinda on Jun 15 2013 11:50:26 AM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2013 : 11:14:39 AM
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Hi Govinda,
Very flowing, beautiful and wise words. Thank you.
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2013 : 9:58:04 PM
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Thank you, Jeff
It's an honor to be a part of such an inspiring thread. |
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kriyawit
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2013 : 3:52:30 PM
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Hello Jeff, Hello Govinda, Tell Siddhartha & Hermann Hesse I said hello. Your contribution to this thread is informative and comparable to my own experiences that can be related.
Kriya practice does involve energy manipulation and awareness but as has so rightly been stated here is not the end all or be all.
The energy Manipulation and awareness does turn the senses inwards and does lead to attention being placed on more refined senses and so on and so forth until there is no definable this or that duality drops off.
This can occur during the specific pranayama process itself or at any time but is intended to to be the culmination of the practice ending in what some name Paravastha State. Lahiri Mahasaya used to call it the after poise state of Kriya where no pranayama of any kind is practiced and the only thing done is that which comes natural and easy to do.
So I mention this because it is the only energy based system I have ever worked with for a prolonged period of time.
From this I have concluded all other energy based systems share the same practical repeatable common direction which is the following outlined below:
1.Give the body some small amount of Hatha to expend some of the nervous energy and get the mind more interiorized away from the workaday world you just left. Begin moving energy in the spine in a shallow way Talabya Kriya & Mahamudra. Closed eyes Shambavi Mudra is practiced throughout.
2.Connect the lower nervous system aspect with higher for better energy transmission and a more completed closed physical circuit even in the energy body this is the transition. Full Kechari Mudra or partial. In full Kechari the energy demands the Mudra not the will making the tongue go up into the nasal septum. This full Kechari unfastens the knot of the tongue or Medulla /Ajna Bruhm.
This is like walking through a door and closing it behind you the noise of the world is greatly removed in this quieter place A greater stillness of mind is achieved respiration slows interior movement of attention connects.
A circuit is closed and energy transmission becomes deeper and more profound inner sounds are observed and one is absorbed into them by listening for the sound behind the sound, this can give way to light and sporadic breathless or still state of breath for prolonged periods.
3. OM Japa is placed in the centers with mental verbal application to keep the mind focused, soon the centers respond by erupting and waves of joy and bliss and various degrees of energy of many frequencies are experienced soon this draws one even deeper and the sound of OM is perceived from the vibrating energy and the need for mental application drops away as one becomes even more deeply interorized, one dissolves into the experience at each center.
3.Navi Kriya, Manipura is focused on and enlivened opening the knot at this level and the system is supplied with added Prana to power the practices yet to come here the breathless state may occur repeatedly and often and true pranayama occur.
4.K1 Or Kriya Pranayama Proper similar to spinal breathing yet different centers have now been opened and the spine interiorized into movement becomes very deep inside as does the awareness guiding the Practice of Pranayama and engine of sorts is created and it take son a life of it's own.
More Prana is built as it is moved and circulated in Sushumna in breath rubbing out breath . One feels restriction in the upward breath on the ascent and this is the knot of the Heart or Anahata being loosened even while focusing in the center and moving prana and breath ever upward to Medulla Ajna one may focus from to and of Vishuddas front side to guide the prana and move it deeply in the spine through the heart knot gradually loosening this knot.
When this knot is loosened the breathing becomes less retracted here and prana moved through it smoothly.
There are deep movements of energy and sound gives way to light at times. Later one is deeply interiorized in the spine and Kutastha and there is steady light. Energy sensations occur less frequently or not at all.
The still states of breath are encountered and one knows not at the time when the body wants to breath again whether they were on the in breath or an out breath during these times in-between where breathing ceases and the heart ceases to beat duality no longer exists and the self is known in the still utter stillness it is here when the heart resumes beating that one understands just how much noise there is due to this beating of the heart versus the opposite and how much movement there is versus the stillness.
The heart beating again and the breath coming again is an undesired event compared to the moment before it makes one return in a more shallow way but not in a panic or like before sitting in the worldly sense.
I remember clearly the first time the heart stopped beating and I was astounded there was no pain no nothing just stillness. When it started again it was doing double time trying to find its rhythm and annoyed me so much at that point I said fine body do as you will die if you want!
Imagine having that state of thinking.
Well it smoothed out and slowed down so I continued.
5.Yoni Mudra One perceives the opening of Sushumna and the 5 pointed star as if in the distance in the center of a black orb, the outer ring makes itself known in a big bang effect ever expanding outwards to do so again. As one focuses the white star grows larger to enter it is to experience a Realm of a Golden orb in which one finds oneself inhabiting a body of light and all around one is a glowing orb of cosmic energy golden and Plasma energy like in viscosity but not.
I experienced myself is in the very center in Asana I could see my body of energy Golden white yellow and was seeing with eyes that are not human animal eyes as I could see everything at once even outside of that body and outside of this sphere looks deep space with stars it is like sitting inside of the sun but no heat.
In fact the emotions I experienced were ones of pure freedom and joy as I moved this semi opaque golden energy bodies arms and hands around turning my head this way and that not needing to in order to see with the panoramic vision I now possessed.
This is the best description I have it is only when this fades one realizes how far removed on just was from this reality and that one was not breathing and one has lost all track of time. A normal Kriya session can last 30 minutes. When this occurred I noticed 1 hour and 45 minutes had passed the entire range of Kriyas do not take more than 30 minutes to perform therefore the remaining time must have been spent there and it felt like seconds at most had passed in retrospect.
I wish I could post pictures I made two good illustrations of this. Available to anyone who wants them just e-mail me.
I do not practice Yoni Mudra often because even though there are fantastic experiences to be had and seen and this practice does help one become aware of finer realms and lead one deeper. I prefer to go straight to after poise or paravastha state after K1 Pranayama. Where all of this experiencing is not left behind so much as it is transcended.
6. After-poise of kriya there may be inner sound or light even it depends on the depths achieved in Kriyas previously practiced, on performs what comes easy and natural. I often experience tremendous energy movements the breath will take on a life of its own and go rapid or cease the tongue will of it's own accord seek deeper and deeper regions in the skull, energy is felt moving to make contact via the conduit of the tongue, the tongue completes a deeper circuit and steadiness in Kutastha occurs eyes riveted at the brow like a magnet then light at kutastha then that which words do not describe. There is no sound, there is no light there is no electrical feeling there is a gravitic pull Kutastha and Sahasrara are connected then this is in the back ground then no words can describe this gravirtic vibration is experienced in its fullness then duality not here not there is left behind just being and bliss is known.
Immediately After Kriya I have had it happen where I open my eyes and the lights are turned on and go to put away my seat and I am looking straight ahead yet something seems wrong with the vision as I realize there is a very bright light in-between my eyes and slightly above I am looking around this light in the middle on either side with my meat eyes. I blink a few times and shake my head the light gets out of the way and seeing normal again.
If the room is dark I can see in the pitch black very clearly and the light is there as well or I will see extremely well in the inky black room but it has a rather purple cast to the darkness and a graininess to it right after Kriya. While working as I am now the light is present at the border of my vision or anytime my eyes remain fixed for a period of time.
I have had it happen once where the outline of my vision on the periphery is like a very energetic kaleidoscope think of the movie Stargate with colors like one has never seen on earth or in a movie with even the best special effects the sheer vibrancy and power are unparalleled this was like looking into a hole in the fabric of space and very annoying to have happen outside of sadhana as it was distracting and lasted for over 30 minutes before I could get the feel for shutting it off. It was so strong that it overrode what the physical eyes could see and I had to keep looking around the special effects. Annoying and unwelcome.
After Kriya I do not much feel like speaking to anyone everything is very still and quiet I do not care for the noise of my own voice, nor the mental action of forming words and speech the quietness and bliss are absorbing and it gradually diminishes.
Each time afterwards though more and more bliss and quietness is brought back and over time incorporates into daily life. I can see for a fact that compared to 12 months ago there has been a qualitative transformation for the better.
There is more stillness, more peace, more love and compassion a more natural & Happy disposition I find myself ever more the witness on deeper and deeper levels.
I know how to create intoxication from Sahasrara but even as Govinda states there is no reason to walk around in a God intoxicated state. This is just an extreme state and I agree it is better to work into everything gradually rather than become blasted by states that are so powerful they can not be sustained by the novice visitor.
It is important to make these dips into the infinite though as each visit swimming in the indescribable makes it easier to return and stay longer and become ever more that. With each visit one becomes a little more wet and stays that way longer before long all of the water drops merge and form a new level of awareness one operates from in daily life.
So this is the way I have learned to transition the various layers of awareness step by step and use the energy as a stepping stone but even that is not quite right it is more like using the energy to take you closer to the edge of the bubble where you effortlessly intuitively make the leap to the next more inner refined state until you leave even that behind and merge in non duality in oneness.
I am beginning to understand or perceive there will come a day where all of the preliminary energy work of the Kriyas are not needed merely stilling the body entering Kechari and the after-poise state will come on it's own but this is a ways off from where I am now but has also never been closer at the same time.
So here is a way energy is used to transition. |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2014 : 05:27:04 AM
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Hi Jeff,
I am a bit late, but could you please describe what you have practiced to reach the 4 stages that you mention in the first post?
Thanks in advance
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2014 : 08:43:14 AM
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Hi Will Power,
Never too late. In my specific case, I had sort of what people call a kundalini opening a little over 10 years ago. That original opening made me aware of the first two types of energy (body & mind). While I had not spent time formally meditating, I had spent a lot of time "just listening" to music which has a similar effect.
The third form (light) was the result of ongoing forms of mindfulness (or staying focused in the moment). Trying to be constantly aware. Also, it could be described as sort of 24/7 feeling energy and silence.
The forth form (primordial) was shown to me. As it is beyond "universal mind", i currently believe that one would need help to realize it.
Feel free to ask questions if you would like more specifics.
Best wishes. |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2014 : 3:12:54 PM
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thanks Jeff!
Can you describe a bit more mindfulness, in different situations like walking or trying to find a solution about somethink at work?
Did you previously know the one who showed you the primordial light?
With primordial light do you mean what is perceived in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, when everything dissappears, and you are in ecstasy?
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2014 : 7:32:28 PM
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Hi Will Power,
It is hard to describe in words. Just sort of reside or stay present in the moment. There is no real separate state like "meditation".
Yes, I previously had known the one. But, long before that point the concept of a separate "being" is very muddled. More like separation is perceived at different layers of "consciousness".
No, what you are describing is what I would call the "light" or the third type of energy/light. What you are describing is a deep state of consciousness. But when anything is perceived, like "esctasy", one is still in "mind".
Best,
Jeff |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Apr 24 2014 : 03:36:39 AM
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Thanks for the reply Jeff!
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Four main types of energy/light
