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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1537 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 01:36:04 AM
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Thanks Guys. It's good to discuss and remind ourselves of our techniques and purposes. When in doubt, go back to Yogani, so as soon as I got last evening, I took down the little purple Samyama Book from the shelf and immediately became totally engross in it. It is amazing no matter how many times you read these booklets you always learn more, understand more and adjust your point of view. I don't think we thank Yogani enough for the awesomeness of these booklets (or the lessons)
So Thank You Yogani for changing my life in an amazing way.
So back to the technique - Yogani talks of releasing a "subtle feeling" of the word (Love) into inner silence. Intent is there, but should not be dwelt upon mentally during the practice and like Shanti says leave room for change.
Sey |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 11:46:11 AM
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I have been wondering whether the self-inquiry sutra instructions differ in any way when part of samyama routine and in daily life compared to the regular samyama instructions.
My impression as a samyama addition was that it did not, and follows the same standard of lightly picking up the sutra at the most subtle level in mind, and letting inner silence deal with the meaning, then releasing without holding on even to the releasing.
From the Liberation book page 73, Yogani says inquiry with "who am I?" should not be mechanical but with sincerity. Intention is also mentioned with Jnana-Affirming, and it differs than the Jnana-transcending used with self-inquiry samyama.
Bhakti is also recommended to be kept separate during sitting practice, which could mean whatever 'resident' bhakti (and sincerity) is naturally and inevitably present will be useful in sitting practices, while anything beyond could be scenery and symptoms of purification.
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
Yogani talks of releasing a "subtle feeling" of the word (Love) into inner silence
The way I understand it is the subtle feeling is for the word, the sutra, not for the feeling associated with the meaning of the word, in this case, love. As long as we understand the sutra from when first coming across it in the readings, inner silence will 'translate' the meaning, and carry out the effects of the sutra.
And then again, the 'subtle meaning' is in the instructions nonetheless, and I would imagine the 'meaning' to be even more subtle than a word, so for me it's time to brush up on those instructions once again. |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 1:00:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AumNaturel
nonetheless, and I would imagine the 'meaning' to be even more subtle than a word.
I was thinking about that too. So may be better not even having any intention and just let the sound of the word reveal the subtle meaning.
Also, yogani says samyama can also cause overload. In what way? Can you have too much of love or abundance? Is that a bad thing???
Coming back to my original question, Shanti pretty much answers it with the ocean and blue ink analogy. I was reading through posts in the forum and the following post by yogani sounds like the place my question is coming from:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....=11492#98758
i.e. you tend to see sometime that the witness and object as separate and as if we have a choice to chose between one or other. And so was the question, whether samyama/samadhi merging with the object and self-inquiry is letting go of the object and just stay with the subject. But as yogani says, or that's what I am understanding, that both eventually merges into one. |
Edited by - gentlep on Jul 04 2012 2:20:37 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 5:58:44 PM
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Both merge into one. They are like different ends of the same thing, just different ways of dispelling the illusion of separation. You can do the same with deep meditation. Sanyama is a sort of positive force outward force, self inquiry seems to me to be a negative ( not in the sense of bad ) inward force. Both are very powerful and both will cause overloading.
Once the wall melts it goes very fast, like ice melting on a hot summers day. You need enough stillness and acceptance in order to cope with that change, that's why it needs to be done slowly and carefully. Both ways can lead to a natural trap if that stillness and careful cultivation have not been properly.
The least intent put onto the sutra the more effective it is in my experience, I repeat that stillness must be present for it to become an amplifier. The world starts to come to you.....or maybe it's you to the world who knows as its all just one thing. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 6:10:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gentlep
Also, yogani says samyama can also cause overload. In what way? Can you have too much of love or abundance? Is that a bad thing???
Remember samyama is working on removing blocks so we can experience becoming one with love or abundance. The overload will happen if the blocks are removed too quickly ... Too much practice can cause too much purification too fast. |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 6:23:57 PM
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ok, still don't get it. Blocks to love and abundance is removed too fast so suddenly I am flooded with those. Sounds like a good thing! I don't mind exploding with love and abundance. Am I missing something?
@karl, isn't it paradoxical that we work towards developing the witness so as to be separate from object conscious. And then we do practices to be one with the object! |
Edited by - gentlep on Jul 04 2012 7:27:06 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 7:47:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gentlep
ok, still don't get it. Blocks to love and abundance is removed too fast so suddenly I am flooded with those. Sounds like a good thing! I don't mind exploding with love and abundance. Am I missing something?
Sorry,once again I was not clear... no the blocks are things like feelings/experiences of "defeated, maybe fearful of death, maybe abandoned, maybe lonely, maybe lost, betrayed, helpless." that I talked about in the other post that makes us feel separate from "love" or "abundance". Samyama is helping us see though a lot of emotional things, feeling, emotions, situations, mind patterns, life patterns, and when too much emotions come up, or at times the symptoms show up as physical pain... if we get bombarded with too much release of blocks and too much emotions start coming out, we could go into a depression or feel a lot of pain... that is what Yogani is talking about as excess purification that causes overloads. Once the openings have happened and the purification has passed we will feel lighter and more love and/or abundance... but in AYP we try to go for a smooth opening and not overload on the purification symptoms.
Does this help Gentlep? |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 8:07:36 PM
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| Oh, is that what the blocks/obstruction mean. I never understood that clearly before. Now I know why I have been feeling so overwhelmed, anxious, fearful, depressed etc. lately. I wish all of this went out of the door in one shot. Surprisingly, patanjali never talked about such things. He only said glorified things about samyama. Ans so goes about kechari in hatha yoga pradipika and gheranda samhita. Not so much with samyama, but kechari is one of the places where I am really getting into trouble. And I can see a direct correlation there, not some delayed effect. An it's downright frightening, sometime in the middle of the day, with heart racing, shivering and lots of movement in the crown area. If you ever seen a really scared dog or puppy, it feels that way, as if I want to run somewhere or hide under the table. And all that I do to cause that is, may be I was feeling low that day and to boost up the energy I sit in kechari with closed eyes for 20-30 minutes during lunch, thinking that kechari is an energy practice and will bring ecstatic conductivity. And it does give that, I mean the silence, bliss and ecstasy, during that time and feels good but soon to be stuck with a storm later in the afternoon or evening. As if it is punishment to have enjoyed some time in blissful ecstasy. |
Edited by - gentlep on Jul 04 2012 9:19:58 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2012 : 9:22:46 PM
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So sorry you are experiencing all this... yes definite signs of overload, Gentlep. I would really recommend self pacing and grounding. It does not have to be hard if we stay with what is recommended.
Hope you feel better soon.
PS: Purification is an ongoing process... like peeling layers of an onion...one layer goes, we get closer to the silence, but there are other layers that will be revealed... at times even things we feel we have let go will comes back to show us deeper and deeper layers. But the freedom experienced when a layer is gone, is worth all the pain. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 04:01:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gentlep
ok, still don't get it. Blocks to love and abundance is removed too fast so suddenly I am flooded with those. Sounds like a good thing! I don't mind exploding with love and abundance. Am I missing something?
@karl, isn't it paradoxical that we work towards developing the witness so as to be separate from object conscious. And then we do practices to be one with the object!
in a way it is. I really gave up analysing the what and how of it. It's a bit like learning to ride a bike. At one point you might use training wheels to help give some support. At the time the learning is taking place the concentration is at a very conscious level, everything is getting integrated but it's also very strange and takes obvious effort. One day you take off the training wheels and within a few days you begin thinking about where you are going to ride and no longer the how you are going to ride.
Once that journey is complete there is the vaguest memory of the use of training wheels, but it's almost as if you can't remember exactly why they were necessary, only that they must have been required because you definitely used them. The Witness is somewhat like that when simplified, but I cannot quite define the necessity, or explain the relevance.
Even when I really try, the question just dissolves as if that memory were no more than a fleeting dream. Possibly it is so bound with the original state of attachment that it cannot be allowed to exist because it has been turned to ash, so it's like trying to piece together an object from its elemental parts. I see the ash, I just can't liken it to the object.
It's an interesting excersise.
You are definitely overloading. It's so obvious that you just don't need to push so hard, the bahkti is such a potent material force driving a person to find in essence a material goal because that's all it can do when directed. It just seeks and depending on your nature it can seek quite destructively. The overloading is purely material, the spiritual is untouched. It's fighting against what you think you are and not what you really are. So, you have always to be advised to try if you can to temper the Bakhti in a mechanical way. The less is more principle is absolutely correct, but when Bakhti is chewing your ear off and prodding you so hard it is almost as big a effort to step off the gas.
Sooner or later Bakhti will run itself into a brick wall. You have to have developed enough gentle, loving stillness from devout deep meditation practice to have weakened the structure enough to be able to transition. If you don't it can be hell. Ultimately you will proceed in the way that you will proceed and for some it will be an incredibly painful and destructive ride. If you can keep in mind that where your journey is taking you is a very calm and tranquil place maybe you can realise that the journey is best undertaken in the same manner. Everything is just scenery, but nightmares on the path will seem very real even when that is known.
So, chill out a bit, learn to stretch out and relax, it's going to happen anyway, you can't speed it up, all you will do is frazzle. Try and put that over drive into something positive like learning to play an instrument, painting, writing a book, gardening, sport helping people. Let that bleed of the rush and then practice so gently you hardly know its practice at all. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 08:53:20 AM
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Spot on, Karl. I like your reconciliation between the journey and the destination being of the same quality: serene and abiding.
Just to add one more thing re: obstructions and the outpouring of essences like love and abundance...
The human body will always be limited in its ability to express these divine qualities. By virtue of manifestation, there is limitation, and therefore imperfection. It's a losing game from the very start. So, the misery comes when trying to achieve perfection in an imperfect world. Nevertheless, we can seek to expand, enliven, and enrich our experience for the benefit of ourselves and those around us--like a ripple in still water.
I think the capacity for divine expression will keep growing in human individuals, leading to a superior nervous system in the next evolutionary species. I think the teacher Dr. David Hawkins calls it Homo Spiritus. Surely, we are becoming more and more refined in our biological ability to act as channels/conduits/antennae for divine essences like love and abundance. But, little by little, the change is gradual. Therefore, as Karl said, enjoy the ride.  |
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samyama and self-inquiry
