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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 20 2012 : 2:16:47 PM
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After reading some posts, noticing some casual comments, and comparing them to some observations of my own, I decided to make what started as a reply into a separate topic on the idea of yoga, ecstatic conductivity, authenticity, and psychoactive drugs. I find the general idea of drugs has already been well-covered in the lessons, so I'm just putting these thoughts out as my current perspective.
It is in no way about drugs themselves and cultures and people who use them, all of whom I respect, or about things beyond the forum's scope like human rights.
To be clear from the outset, I have no experience with ecstatic conductivity to date, or drugs.
There probably is no clear-cut unfolding that constitutes an ideal rising of ecstatic conductivity (it happens when all conditions are favorable, even if the result may be premature), one conforming in a timely way to allow for sustained practice with minimal overloading, symptoms or scenery, while maximizing further openings and progress, speaking in terms of the energetic side of the path. Of course, the practices and advice recognize and aim to maximize that ideal-opportunity working in the real world with all its variation.
I have never taken any psychoactive drugs and find my interest in them, as probes into self- understanding (to paraphrase my textbook on psychopharmacology), to be waning, while my affinity to psychedelics has turned into a conviction to avoid trying them for good, backed up by reasons I will try to briefly explain. While I can anticipate objections at my lack of experience, I find such a proposition (you can't speak as you lack the experience) a diversion which serves to feed the mythologizing and mysticism surrounding drug-induced experiences which exposes and betrays any credibility proponents for drug use may have had in that argument.
That said, I nor anyone else do not lack or somehow fall short of the range of experiences drugs 'provide' compared to that coming from endogenous substances and the incredibly complex pathways responsible for sensations, perceptions, ABCs, etc., arising from non-drug induced states. In short, there is nothing extraneous or somehow supernatural in drug experiences simply because they require the foundation of the nervous system to exert any effect whatsoever (one that has been shown can be replicated by other means such as exercise, trance, dreaming, near death experiences), and on the contrary, can actually impede the very resources necessary for real experience. That can be seen by looking at the side-effects of any drug. Even psychedelics leave a memory imprint through the way the nervous system re-wires to accommodate for that experience, like any other, thanks to neuroplasticity, neurogenesis, and other alterations. These are in response to an abnormal condition and not necessarily one conducive to a spiritual path, and more importantly, not beyond that which the nervous system alone does not already have or is capable of developing towards.
There is a lingering belief that is perpetuated unquestioningly to thwart the inherent potential of the nervous system, trying to undermine its natural abilities, as an way to promote psychoactive drug use. They have no direct role in the spiritual path. On the contrary, I believe beyond their initial ability to inspire and instill bhakti, they can undermine the very resources necessary. Also, I believe their 'initial ability' is not at all indispensable with what ordinary life experiences alone can provide.
Having spoken to friends who have responsibly used many types and classes of drugs in the past, myself having read about drugs from different sources, having experienced some natural 'altered-states' with unusual dreams (sense of 'magnetic expanding and contracting' in an abstract state of impending chaos), induced lucid dreams, meditation (expanded/contracted space - loss of size proportions), and other common life experiences like jogging (runner's high, withdrawal/cravings to run, visual distortions and dizziness from overrunning), mood disruptions (depression, elation, psychological burnout), eustress, sleep deprivation etc., I still see the same story woven throughout: that believing in a lack is misguided, while trying to add more to what's already available is unnecessary.
By staying away from drugs, I feel that my experiences are and will continue to be genuine, more specifically, directly representative of awareness working with the body and mind. I can only speculate based on very limited observations on what, if any, influence drugs and past drug use have on the rise of ecstatic conductivity in a timely way that facilitates further unfoldings. |
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Inner_silence
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2012 : 8:55:59 PM
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Hi AumNaturel,
If you subscribe to Netflix and have 1 hour to pass, I suggest that you watch "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" if you haven't already.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2012 : 9:37:51 PM
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Bravo, AumNaturel. You're not missing anything. Psychedelics have only teased me and probably left more debris in their wake--more obstructions to be cleared, as you intimate.
Smoked DMT (the spirit molecule) once and had a beautiful vision of a celestial space with higher beings, but alas, it vanished quickly.
I'm going for the permanent route this time. Sounds like you are too!...I applaud your restraint. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2012 : 11:39:29 PM
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One thing to remember when discussing "drugs" is that just about everything can be considered one, from one perspective or another. Refined sugar is a "drug". Caffiene is a "drug". Sex is a "drug". Food is a "drug". Money is a "drug". TV is a "drug". Practices are a "drug". Etc etc etc.
In my opinion, it's all about being aware and honest with ourselves. Are we aware and honest with ourselves about why we watch TV. Are we aware and honest with ourselves about why we're having sex. Are we aware and honest with ourselves about why we are doing practices.
Demonizing anything creates separation, creates a hierarchy. Personally, I try not to worry too much about what is "good" and what is "bad" (or what is useful and what isn't) and instead just try to be as aware and honest as possible about why I am doing what I am doing. To me, that's where the juice is.
Lots of Love!
Carson  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 12:08:40 AM
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Good point, Carson. Any object or behavior can indeed become an addiction. Having been addicted to a variety of drugs, I've found that my addictive nature/personality has not disappeared, but only been re-directed. Addiction becomes bhakti, and consequently it's important for me to practice meditation and karma yoga EVERY DAY to satisfy that zealous urge and inner momentum.
But, speaking of demons and demonization, I'm also fully aware and honest with myself that there is no room for a moderate use of drugs/alcohol in my life. The demon voices (quite literally) will say..."Ah, you can moderate or just use it on rare occassions..." but in reality, that's just bhakti becoming twisted again into lower, chaotic energy (de-evolution). Demons are singularly focused entities that prey on obsession and cyclical patterns that revolve around destructive trajectories.
But, as we know, moderation works for some people when it comes to drugs and alcohol, so, to each his own. |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Mar 26 2012 12:33:31 AM |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 03:25:13 AM
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Inner Silence: I have not seen the movie, but the book was great, even if I thought some interpretations of the results were unwarranted, such as the whole bit on abduction and "contact," when more simple explanations could have sufficed, namely the setting (being studied, unfamiliar room, surrendering control to a substance/experimenter, etc.).
Bodhi Tree: I am glad you picked up on what I was trying to convey. Yes, a permanent route, one whose fruits I can rest assured are of my own as cultivated by practices and daily life. Only those nourished with inner silence are ever viable, and bound to ripen. It is me who applauds your real restraint; I don't know any better than the little provided by exertions with awareness, except to redirect that in continued practices now moderated by less of that desperation. If you've ever seen the movie "Enter the Void," the beginning kaleidoscopic animation gives me a sense of the beauty given off in your vision. I too still remember one of my first lucid dreams, and the feeling was incredible coming off the realization that the dreamscape was really in me even though it and my dreambody are That being perceived in this strange but ordinary way.
Carson: Nice way of putting it, with being honest. That description really clicked with me just now. About things being a drug, yes, the physical body mediates things using the same ways (reward pathways, NTs, hormones) that drugs use to exert their effect. The important difference is, when the body does it, it takes into account all variables in its composition and environment, including the subtle body, while drugs bypass everything and try to mimic that same action. Drugs cannot replace your life force, and all functions of the body which depend on it and themselves are created from since the moment of conception. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 07:34:18 AM
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I guess my main point with the above post was just to remind myself (as much as anyone else), that anything can be a "drug" and that it isn't really the drug (use) itself that is so detrimental or damaging to spiritual growth. It is the lack of awareness that is. If we are doing practices (for example) as a way to escape the here and now (which if I am honest with myself, I have done) it is no less detrimental than if I was using heroin to escape the here and now. This is why I say it is all about awareness and honesty... at least for me. 
Love!
Carson |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 11:18:39 AM
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Awareness, and honesty as you also say, make the important distinction whether the mirror is being polished, or whether the dust already on it is only being used to collect more layers of it. The reply is intended primarily to those who continue unquestioningly to promote drug use under the mistaken assumption that they represent a 'tool' that can somehow enhance something that the body itself lacks.
The question is also put forth as to whether one's experiences of the rise of ecstatic conductivity is not somehow less a reflection of a nervous system that has been adequately cultivated, and instead more of a superficial and unfounded reaction as a result of drug-induced stimulation (even if at some point in the past) that only resembles an authentic experience. It's not just that, but I think certain drugs like psychedelics might actually prime the body to experience a more authentic state prematurely, while other classes simply dull the body's natural resources which a spiritual discipline relies and also aims to enhance as a result of their negative effects (memory impairment, loss of motivation, impaired concentration, alterations in physiological functioning, flashbacks/HPPD, etc.).
The practical implications, besides the more obvious negative effects, of priming the body and stimulating openings without the foundation (skillful application of awareness in practice and daily life) could result in oversensitivity/instability at a point in time that would otherwise (without drugs or past drug experiences) have naturally been grounded and thus conductive to stable practice on which real sensitivity (refined inner sensuality/pratyahara) and openings depend. It is the same idea as that put forth in the importance of self-pacing to avoid going off the cliff and delaying practice while recovering, except worse because it is the equivalent of introducing a cliff without even having climbed it by overdoing, at the very least.
There has been some informal research done that might provide some support for that premature and artificial 'priming' effect I'm proposing at http://www.med.wayne.edu/degraciala...e/index.html by Don DeGracia, though I have not gone over it entirely. I will add that the rise of ecstatic conductivity from what I observe in some people's descriptions is not the beginning and end of a process that is entirely automatic as they seem to believe, but one that needs to be backed by real and sustained practice. Abandoning it to its own accord so early based on what could have been no more than an artificially-induced (drugs) and premature 'opening' is potentially squandering the real potential for unfolding that would have otherwise been possible through more grounded practice.
thanks for the great discussion so far everyone! |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 2:49:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I guess my main point with the above post was just to remind myself (as much as anyone else), that anything can be a "drug" and that it isn't really the drug (use) itself that is so detrimental or damaging to spiritual growth. It is the lack of awareness that is. If we are doing practices (for example) as a way to escape the here and now (which if I am honest with myself, I have done) it is no less detrimental than if I was using heroin to escape the here and now. This is why I say it is all about awareness and honesty... at least for me.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, my fine friend Carson...to quote Pink Floyd..."Be careful with that axe, Eugene."
I would recommend you re-consider the value you have given to a person's intention/honesty in regards to spiritual progress/purification. I'll paraphrase Yogani: in truth, regardless of the motivation (or level of "honesty") one has when beginning meditation, the results will be the same.
For example, I can begin twice-daily meditation with the honest intention of becoming a terrific bank robber...cultivating inner silence for that purpose.  Or, I can begin meditation with the intention of achieving union with divinity and becoming an ego-less conduit of divine love. Either way, the results will be the same.
There's no way you can compare the detriment of heroin use (or other excessive drug use) to an ill-intentioned, "dishonest", or ignoble meditation practice. Both are mechanical processes, with predictable cause-and-effect results. Hard drug use tarnishes and wrecks the nervous system; meditation purifies and opens it.
No amount of intention, honesty, dis-honesty, or mental desire to "escape the here and now" can override the mechanical process of meditation and yoga--if you indeed follow the techniques. Same with drug use.
Much love to you.  |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 4:28:12 PM
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Well my friend, all I can speak to is Truth for me in this moment. And in this moment, there is really no difference to using drugs to escape or using spiritual practices to escape. The result is the same. For me. Both take me away from myself. Is that true for you? Only you can answer that and I make no statements of ultimate truth. But for me, whether I am using heroin to escape the painfulness of reality in any moment, or if I am using spiritual practices as a way to escape the painfulness of reality in any moment, the result is the same. Escape. And it doesn't have to be just spiritual practices or drugs either. TV, sex, shopping, alcohol, food, work, doesn't matter. The end result is the same. For me.
Anyway, the reason I share this is because it's important for *me* to remember that spiritual practices can be put on a pedestal just like drugs. And it's likely important for some other's to remember that too. But me *saying* this doesn't make it true. Only honest personal investigation will conclude whether this is true for you as well. But being scared or fearful to investigate into this should trigger a little bit of a "hmmmm" as anything we are fearful to investigate into is the direct result of Truth (conscience) clashing with beliefs.
Love always,
Carson |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 6:13:37 PM
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Hi Carson:
While our motivation for choosing various courses of action may be the same, reflecting our current need, the outcomes resulting from the choices we make will certainly not be the same.
So while drugs, TV, jumping off a cliff, and spiritual practices may provide us an "escape," each of these will have a different short and long term outcome.
I don't think you were implying that the outcomes would be the same, and therefore it does not matter what one chooses as an escape. At least I hope not.
I have often said that it does not matter why we begin spiritual practices, as long as we do. The results and long term outcome will be the same, inner purification and opening leading to freedom. The same can't be said of other forms of escape we might choose.
And, of course, there are many other reasons besides escape for doing just about anything, including spiritual practices. At different times of our life and in different circumstances, we will experience other motivations for doing what we do. If we have come into spiritual practices with bhakti (spiritual desire), odds are the bhakti will be increasing as we move along. Even if we did not have much bhakti in the beginning, we are bound to have more of it as we continue with practice, unfolding more abiding inner silence.
As for putting spiritual practices on a pedestal, if it serves a purpose for our long term well being, then we may do that. But I agree with you that, ultimately, nothing will be on a pedestal, because that is bondage created in the mind. On the other hand, getting rid of a ladder when we are half-way up the building is not necessarily going to be the best course of action. Maybe better to get up to the roof and then get rid of the ladder, or pass it on to others who might need it.
That metaphor does not apply so well to courses of action we might choose for the same reasons that can degrade our health and well being. Better to get off those ladders sooner rather than later, since they are going down, not up.
The guru is in you.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 6:51:15 PM
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Thank you for jumping in, Yogani.
Just want to say a few more things to Carson to clarify why I shot up my red flare (i.e. whoa, whoa, whoa):
Carson, I honor your truth and don't wish to negate the validity of your personal experience. I view you as a fellow warrior and someone incredibly genuine.
Still, if the mechanics of AYP practices are NOT TRUE (BOTH on the personal and impersonal levels), then we're in big trouble. Know what I'm sayin'? If the mechanics are FALSE, we need to de-fraud this man behind the curtain who's saying that the inevitable results of these practices (when used in conjuction with living a full life) are ecstatic bliss, unity, and an outpouring of divine love.
Your statement "If we are doing practices (for example) as a way to escape the here and now (which if I am honest with myself, I have done) it is no less detrimental than if I was using heroin to escape the here and now"...suggests that if WE (note that you used the third-person "WE", not the first-person "I") are doing practices for the wrong reasons (escapism), then the results will be as detrimental as heroin abuse. You see why I'm shooting up a red flare? You made a blanket statement that implies a universal consequence re: "dishonest" intentions for AYP practices--not just your personal truth.
There is probably just some confusion here because of semantics. I think we're on the same page.
In any case, when I'm honest with myself, I find that I wish for you the same exact thing I wish for myself: love, joy, and the deepest connection with the reality of life. And that is surely unique to each individual in its expression and road to fulfillment. Yet I think it is equally true that our uniqueness is joined in stillness, and the more we know stillness (through practices or any method of living), the better. |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Mar 26 2012 6:56:44 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 7:38:16 PM
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Hi Yogani
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
While our motivation for choosing various courses of action may be the same, reflecting our current need, the outcomes resulting from the choices we make will certainly not be the same.
From where I sit right now, I can't presume to know the outcomes of any actions. I can only follow my inner intuition, my conscience, and let the chips fall where they may. Doing ayahausca for example could result in an inner shift, the effects of which could be felt for the rest of my life. Or, doing ayahausca could find me in the hospital having had a stroke. Or anything in between, or beyond. For me to presume I can know the result of doing drugs, watching TV or engaging in spiritual practices is, *for me*, simply imagination. Life is a complete mystery to me, and I regularly find myself in places I could never have imagined I would end up in.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
So while drugs, TV, jumping off a cliff, and spiritual practices may provide us an "escape," each of these will have a different short and long term outcome.
I don't think you were implying that the outcomes would be the same, and therefore it does not matter what one chooses as an escape. At least I hope not.
What I was implying was that awareness of why we are doing what we are doing is everything. At least for me. It's all about knowing ourselves and what makes us tick. If we are doing spiritual practices in order to escape the harshness of reality, to live in a "bliss bubble" unaffected by anything, then I don't see a difference between spiritual practice and heroin use. You (or anyone) does not have to agree. And I was only using the motivation of escaping reality as an example as to how spiritual practice could be a detriment at least as much as it may be helping. To me, the key in all this is awareness of oneself and why we are doing what we are doing. And I don't think it's unreasonable to think that spiritual practices could do harm to someone if done irresponsibly, with the wrong motivations, or with a lack of awareness. Again, you don't have to agree.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
I have often said that it does not matter why we begin spiritual practices, as long as we do. The results and long term outcome will be the same, inner purification and opening leading to freedom. The same can't be said of other forms of escape we might choose.
Unfortunately I can't personally say that "the results and the long term outcome (of doing spiritual practices) will be the same (for everyone)." I have no idea how I could ever know that. It may well be, but it may well not be as well. I also can't say that the result of any of the other mentioned forms of escape *won't* result in someone coming to know Truth. Again, how could I ever know what is going to be required in order for someone to wake up?
At this point I prefer to only speak about that which I know to be true for me. And I can't say with certainty, at least not in this moment, that everyone needs to do spiritual practices and that the result of doing said spiritual practices will be the same for everyone. I don't know that.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
As for putting spiritual practices on a pedestal, if it serves a purpose for our long term well being, then we may do that. But I agree with you that, ultimately, nothing will be on a pedestal, because that is bondage created in the mind. On the other hand, getting rid of a ladder when we are half-way up the building is not necessarily going to be the best course of action. Maybe better to get up to the roof and then get rid of the ladder, or pass it on to others who might need it.
All I can speak to is my own experience. But I know that for me, I had an univestigated belief that if I did not continue with my spiritual practices, that spiritual progression would stop, or worse yet, reverse. That I would revert back to my old habits if I did not continue with spiritual practices. So I continued with practices even when in my heart I knew that it was making my, and my family's, daily life much more challenging. It wasn't until my daughter started experiencing some pretty troubling adverse effects to the amount of energy in my home that Life saw to it that I was *forced* to take a really hard look at what I was doing and why. And what I saw when I looked was that I was doing practices because I want enlightenment... not just for me, but for the whole planet. And I saw that I had a belief that if I stopped practices, that the forward progression/purification/opening would also stop. And it may, I don't know. It doesn't appear that way in this moment, but I can't know the future. At this point however, the health of my daughter and the intactness of my family is more important to me than my or anyone else's enlightenment. Practices have absolutely changed my life, no doubt about it. I would most likely be dead if it wasn't for AYP and the practices shared here. But at this point I have to ask, is it worth continuing practices (at least right now) at the expense of my daughter's health or at the expense of my marriage? Is my (or anyone's) enlightenment worth making my daughter sick over?
I stopped practicing almost exactly two weeks ago. I was more resistent to making this decision than I have probably been over any other decision I've ever had to make. But it wasn't really my decision to make at all. This *had* to happen. And almost immediately after stopping (and putting my daughter on a naturopathic remedy) there was a drastic improvement in my daughter's health (as well as in a few other not as "drastic" areas). And I was only doing 1 or 2 minutes of SBP and 5 minutes of meditation once a day. I am at Kripalu right now, practicing up a storm, feeling fantastic, but I know that once I go home again there is a very likely chance that I will have to stop again. If not for my sake, then for the sake of my family.
I know this has really boiled down to be a personal story about the need for self-pacing, and I'm sorry AumNaturel if I have hijacked the topic a bit here.... but in my mind, this all ties together quite neatly. Putting it all into words however I am finding to be a challenge. To me, this discussion is about yoga, ecstatic conductivity, authenticity, psychoactive drugs, honest looking, and self-pacing. And to me right now, self-pacing requires me to not do practices for an indefinite period of time. At least not while I am at home and around my family. And it wasn't until I was forced to look at why I was doing the practices that I realized that practices can indeed be done for the wrong reasons. If practices are done (no matter the reason) at the expense of the health and well-being of others, then they should not be done. It's really that simple for me.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
That metaphor does not apply so well to courses of action we might choose for the same reasons that can degrade our health and well being. Better to get off those ladders sooner rather than later, since they are going down, not up.
This is exactly it. If practices are causing the degradation of health and well-being of the people around us, that is one hell of a good reason, at least in my opinion, to get off the ladder. At least for now.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 7:40:21 PM
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Hi Bodhi Tree
We cross-posted... hopefully my reply to Yogani will make what I am trying to say a bit clearer.
Love!
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 8:27:58 PM
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Hi Bodhi Tree
One thing in your post requires additional addressing in my opinion...
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Your statement "If we are doing practices (for example) as a way to escape the here and now (which if I am honest with myself, I have done) it is no less detrimental than if I was using heroin to escape the here and now"...suggests that if WE (note that you used the third-person "WE", not the first-person "I") are doing practices for the wrong reasons (escapism), then the results will be as detrimental as heroin abuse.
That's not what I meant, although I can see that the way I said it could easily be taken that way... my bad. What I meant was that if we (and when I say "we" I mean "I" ) are using practices as an escape then that is no different than using heroin as an escape. I wasn't trying to say the result (especially physically) will necessarily be the same. I have no idea what the result of anything is going to be (see P.S.). I was just trying to say that escaping is escaping is escaping, no matter the method used, and that investigating into our motivations for practicing can reveal a sh*t-load of insight into ourselves. Perhaps not the best example.
Love!
Carson
P.S. The end result of my heroin addiction was finding AYP. Absolutely wasn't anticipating that. I also didn't anticipate that doing practices in my house would result in my daughter getting an extremely severe kundalini rash and stop sleeping for more than a few hours at a time for several months. Just a reminder that we really don't know what the results of our actions will be until they happen. We can make reasonable assumptions, we can research and educate ourselves, we can even take all reasonable precautions and still get unexpected results. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 8:32:53 PM
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Ah, now I see the impetus.
Your daughter is in my prayers. That's something I cannot relate to...having children. One day I hope to.
Bravo for your bravery in self-pacing and putting your family's heath first. You're a true warrior. |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2012 : 10:59:19 PM
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Hey Yogani,
I've have noticed several long time AYP'ers get to a point where they need to stop practices. Anthem11, Emc, Katrine, Carson, myself - that I know of. Did you ever have such a stage? Of course I remember the story of John Wilder with the physically enforced stoppage of practices due to overload. It seems like even with all the lessons on self-pacing, a lot of us are hitting the wall anyway. What's going on? Is there a critical point where practices take the 'desire for practicing' off the pedestal as well? That's how it feels here. I know in the past you have said you continue to practice twice daily. Could you talk about this transition stage, if you had one, when the desire for enlightenment has been exposed as another dead-end. Where does the bhakti re-emerge from? Mine is waning rather than growing.
I'm sorry if this is going way off course on the thread, but it does fit in. I came to AYP as an avid drug user as well. As I stopped doing drugs, I am also sure that it is effective, but unsure of the ultimate outcome... also left wondering, did I begin AYP for the wrong reasons, and is that causing some sort of forced self-pacing.
To Aum Naturel, I think you have a good understanding of drugs. Nothing is added or lost in regards to the wholeness of reality. Mild and accumulative health problems vary by drug. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2012 : 12:39:07 AM
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Hi Carson:
If practices are causing an energy imbalance in your environment, especially if adversely affecting your loved ones, you should self-pace as much as necessary, which you are doing. You have my full support on that. There is a lot going on in your life right now, which is probably a factor in what is happening also. So keeping in balance as you are doing is the key. Everything will happen in its own time. Happy to hear you are doing well at Kripalu. It will be good to let go of all this for a few days and enjoy your time there on the program.
Hi JDH:
Regarding why there is more sensitivity now than in decades past, it is a sign of the times, and the transition humanity is undergoing. It is touched on in Lesson 365. Sensitivities in general have been much less in past decades. My practices have been going on continuously for some 40 years, with ups and downs along the way requiring the kind of self-pacing and grounding we discuss here, but not to the degree we are seeing in many practitioners these days. So there is a new dynamic. It can be a good thing if managed for optimum progress with safety. Times are changing.
And on that point, the time scales for purification and opening are becoming greatly accelerated in the 21st century, which creates opportunities as well as risks. It is a matter of engaging the dynamics of human spiritual transformation in ways that are progressive without throwing stability out the window.
The episodes of excess in the Secrets of Wilder novel have more to do with unregulated experimental overdoing with practices than with the global factors just mentioned. It is a pre-21st century story after all. Still, yes, even 40 years ago it was possible to get into kundalini excesses. But it was rare, and took a lot of dynamite placed in the wrong places to do it. Now it takes much less dynamite. We are dealing with more energy now, along with corresponding refinements in methodology. I expect the refinements in methodology will continue going forward in the years ahead as abiding inner silence and spiritual energy become much more than they are today. There are opportunities in this for advanced development of samyama and self-inquiry especially, which we have talked about more in the later AYP writings. Liberation is becoming a real possibility for many more people in the modern era.
Awakening is no longer only for the few, but for the many, and the awakening of the many is producing an acceleration in human consciousness the results of which we can scarcely imagine.
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2012 : 01:49:52 AM
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Thanks Yogani
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Happy to hear you are doing well at Kripalu. It will be good to let go of all this for a few days and enjoy your time there on the program.
Yeah, just got back from the hospital and getting an education in tick bites. Mmmmmmmm.  Pretty sure I will be okay, and will hopefully be able to still enjoy the program despite having a tick take a chunk outta my ass.  Lord God life is an adventure. 
Love!
Carson |
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faileforever
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2012 : 10:31:20 AM
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| hah! vaseline, my friend:-) Makes 'em come right out. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2012 : 11:29:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Awakening is no longer only for the few, but for the many, and the awakening of the many is producing an acceleration in human consciousness the results of which we can scarcely imagine.
Now, that's what I'm talking about. As the Marines would say (or Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman): Oorah! |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Mar 28 2012 : 8:01:13 PM
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Dear Carson,
because I feel drawn to your honesty and I like you very much =P (yeah where does this come from?^^), here some word-blocks for you:
Escape or escaping is a godcheat-word. Don't fall on that one ;) Can you escape something and if yes, are you doing that escaping? It's not in your hands beloved friend, I know the fooling is endless, yet wanted to remeber you.
With three different types of "prctices" I came to the same wall where it looks like you have to choose between your "mother/father/children/friends/loved ones/even more deeply -> body-mind" and "That".
It always looked so dramatic and intense and so important, like god was cheating you ultra big times ;) Beloved friend, also don't fall on that one ;)
2 of these 3 systems were prana-meditation based, one was awareness itself. The latter was the best in terms of seeing/knowing/being absolute truth. And still god managed to perfectly fool and cheat me with the word-blocks above and many more =)
The double-cheat is, god does like there is you (1) having choices (2). It looks like, it looks like there is no escape ;) from giving up EVERYTHING. No matter the "method" =P
You are allowed to be fooled by "possible future"-godmind-cheats, yet you are also invited, out of love, to know right now, the god-cheat. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2012 : 9:48:25 PM
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Hi Holy
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
because I feel drawn to your honesty and I like you very much
Well thank you, I like you very much too.
I've had a bit of trouble understanding exactly what you are saying with this post so bear with me as I stumble my way through a response. Please remember that everything I say is coming from my own understanding and may or may not be applicable to you or anyone else. I am only speaking my own truth here.
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
Escape or escaping is a godcheat-word. Don't fall on that one ;) Can you escape something and if yes, are you doing that escaping?
Ultimately there is no escaping. But in "subjective reality," in the reality in which time and space exist, yes indeed there is escaping. And if you don't like that word (not sure what a "godcheat" is) perhaps you will resonate more with the word "postponing." There is always a possibility to postpone the deep looking at ourselves.
As far as who is doing the escaping/postponing, well, I can only answer that I, the body/mind, am.
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
It's not in your hands beloved friend, I know the fooling is endless, yet wanted to remeber you.
It is both in our hands and it is not. We are being held in the hands of Life, but we are also responsible for ourselves. It may seem like a paradox, but that is only on the surface.
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
With three different types of "prctices" I came to the same wall where it looks like you have to choose between your "mother/father/children/friends/loved ones/even more deeply -> body-mind" and "That".
I'm sorry, but you'll have to restate this... I have no clue what you are saying here. Sorry.
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
It always looked so dramatic and intense and so important, like god was cheating you ultra big times ;) Beloved friend, also don't fall on that one ;)
Again, no idea what you are talking about here. If you can clarify I would greatly appreciate it.
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
2 of these 3 systems were prana-meditation based, one was awareness itself. The latter was the best in terms of seeing/knowing/being absolute truth. And still god managed to perfectly fool and cheat me with the word-blocks above and many more =)
I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "absolute truth" anymore. I am only interested in truth. Truth for me, in this moment. And truth for me in this moment is that I am in a body/mind complex, typing you a message on a computer. That is truth for me in this moment.
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
The double-cheat is, god does like there is you (1) having choices (2). It looks like, it looks like there is no escape ;) from giving up EVERYTHING. No matter the "method" =P
Again, I'm not sure I understand you. First, I have no idea what "god" is. Second, everything is already given up. I don't "own" anything. Not this body, not this life, not my family, not my thoughts, nothing.
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
You are allowed to be fooled by "possible future"-godmind-cheats, yet you are also invited, out of love, to know right now, the god-cheat.
No idea what a godcheat is. If you explain that perhaps your message will make more sense to me, I don't know. As far as a "possible future" is concerned, I don't have a clue. Life is a complete and utter mystery to me and I am in constant awe of it. In fact, while writing this message I had someone here at Kripalu come into this room and lay his entire life story on me which reflected my own with such intense similarity that if you read this in a book or saw it on a movie you would likely think it was unbelievable and too far fetched to even be enjoyable. I couldn't have forseen it in a million years. I've had situations like this happen 3 times in the last week alone. I have no idea where Life is going, no idea what it has in mind, but I can tell you with utter certainty that whatever happens, I will embrace it the best I can.
With love,
Carson |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2012 : 12:03:37 AM
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quote:
[i]?....I have no idea where Life is going, no idea what it has in mind, but I can tell you with utter certainty that whatever happens, I will embrace it the best I can.
With love,
Carson
Wow...Nice!...love your contributions to the forum!
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2012 : 02:07:28 AM
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quote:
everything is already given up. I don't "own" anything. Not this body, not this life, not my family, not my thoughts, nothing.
yes ...
quote:
I have no idea where Life is going, no idea what it has in mind, but I can tell you with utter certainty that whatever happens, I will embrace it the best I can.
Dear Carson those 2 sentences summarize perfectly the understanding that is happening over here too...aaarrrgh at first this is terrifying...it really shakes you cause the erronous believes that you own your body, that you can plan your life etc...are so deeply
rooted..it is like going to the dentist to pull out a sick tooth! but will keep going to that dentist no matter what "happens" |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2012 : 03:17:21 AM
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Well you can plan your life, the mind is free to do that, it's free to create. The problem comes when the expectation doesn't match the result and particularly when the expectation does match the result
Your body does belong to you. It is in your care. It doesn't make a difference if it's illusory. |
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Ecstatic conductivity, Authenticity, Psychoactives
