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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 16 2006 : 5:22:02 PM
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Today I took a vacation from going deep in meditation. I decided to forego the bliss and opening. I chose not to try to open my heart. I let go of letting go.
I didn't do any of the hundred little things I've figured out will take me further faster. For example, I didn't tilt my head back to enhance the feeling of flow and I didn't think this or breathe that or place my attention here or there at the usual junctures, as if following a treasure map - a breadcrumb trail left for myself on prior "journeys".
I didn't aim for the feeling of my cells being used by a higher power for a higher purpose. I made no deity the gift of my soul. I thought no deep thoughts. I didn't push myself deeper, deeper, deeper.
I took a vacation from all that. I simply sat down and said "I am" to myself over and over, expecting no result at all. I switched from my usual terribly advanced meditation to a novice meditation. And I maintained the simplicity through tremendous flows of energy and lord knows what else - hey, I wasn't paying attention, my mind was absorbed with "I am", come what may. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2006 : 5:56:24 PM
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| Needless to say, I've never felt more at peace and refreshed and smooth in my entire life. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2006 : 6:31:27 PM
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quote:
I took a vacation from all that. I simply sat down and said "I am" to myself over and over, expecting no result at all.
Hi Jim,
This is great to hear, with better results from more simplicity. It seems to me that this is the recommended way of doing AYP meditation, so why not continue like this instead of just having it as a vacation? |
Edited by - weaver on Apr 16 2006 6:34:54 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2006 : 8:09:33 PM
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| Don't mind if I do! |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 09:30:26 AM
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Jim wrote:
quote:
I simply sat down and said "I am" to myself over and over, expecting no result at all.
This sounds familiar to me....this is how I perceive meditation. In addition; (or rather: "in subtraction") I have been on vacation for nine days. Familiy, dog, cabin, nature. No electricity, no in door water - a lot of space to amplify all that takes place in my mind. Nowhere to run....
I'll post later on some of what I go through.
May all your Nows be Here |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 10:46:02 AM
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| I am with Katrine on this one.. my meditation is just sitting with "i am".. unlike katrine though not much happens to me during meditation.. just mantra and thoughts and sleep... and Jim you taught me this.. you always said.. keep it simple.. let all expectations go.. just "i am".. so where did all this, " tilt your head and work on your heart and feeling the cells and deity gift of the soul", come from? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 11:20:00 AM
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Excellent question, Shanti.
The answer is this: it can always be stripped down and simplified. The unfoldment of greater simplicity goes hand in hand with the unfoldment of greater conductivity. I'm still not meditating as simply as I think I am - and neither are you. Later, we'll notice the complications we're currently bringing to our practice. The things I'm describing above are tiny. And I didn't fully realize I was doing them. I've surely got even tinier things I'm doing. Ways I'm controlling. Manners in which I'm pushing and striving.
You don't realize how blocked you are until the blocks are smoothed out. You don't realize how hard you're hanging on until you let go. You don't realize that (as Yogani wisely said once) trying to let go can be a holding on. The mind keeps complicating things, and our ability to notice this with the mind is limited. All we can do is return to simplicity and let ourselves be meditated and simply opt out of the house of mirrors.
I'm dropping my beloved "tooth brushing" analogy. That's not quite it. What it ought to be like, I'm realizing, is like having your hair cut. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 17 2006 11:23:58 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 12:59:06 PM
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Shanti wrote:
quote:
unlike katrine though not much happens to me during meditation..
Well....except for the ecstatic conductivity, nothing happens during meditation for me either. That is why I like it so much. It is complete rest. I don't have to expect anything...the meditation is enough. Being is enough.
However; between meditations......oh boy. I am in the middle of a shift. In the course of letting go of my resistance to truth, all of me is falling apart (which is the whole point of the Work)....and falling fast. I have seen too much now....I am seeing through my own lies all over the place. Good riddance. But it takes all my courage to be with it. To be....and not act in panic.
May all your Nows be Here |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 1:02:23 PM
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To comment on the same quote Katrine selected, if you're expecting/hoping something to happen during meditation, that's a complication, too. Just keep cutting them away, as if with a machete. No, don't even do that. The cutting away is just another complication. Just opt out and let yourself be meditated!
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 1:05:42 PM
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Jim wrote:
quote:
I'm dropping my beloved "tooth brushing" analogy. That's not quite it. What it ought to be like, I'm realizing, is like having your hair cut.
Which hair? 
Personally () I feel meditation to be like relaxing into a bath.
May all your Nows be Here |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 1:10:45 PM
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We posted at the same time, Jim 
quote:
Just keep cutting them away, as if with a machete. No, don't even do that
*laughing* and *laughing*
Jim.....I am dying to meet you!!
Isn't it impossible to tell how to do nothing....
May all your Nows be Here |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 2:47:55 PM
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For me it seems much easier to me now than when I started an year back. I am going much deeper. I dont have any escatic conductivity yet or lights. But when I start meditation clearly I can feel my mental state is at some other level than normal thinking state. It feels like I am moving along for that 20 mins without any effort from me. Infact stopping meditation or that flow might require an effort. At the end of 20 mins automatically i feel the flow has stopped and if i want to continue i have to do it myself. i open my eyes then. Ofcourse some days i will neither feel the flow that much nor will i know automatically at the end of session that i can open my eyes.
-Near |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 3:20:29 PM
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Near, one thing that gets very lost in this forum is something incredibly helpful from Yogani: you can't judge progress from experience.
One forumite may be glowing in the embrace of her deity, and another may just be feeling relaxed. The first isn't doing "better" than the second. We're all wired differently. It's not about the experience, it's about the purification, which happens below the conscious level.
It's true that notwithstanding the above, there are a few milestones that do involve fireworks. But the fireworks are a distraction, and can be tough to manage. It's a case of "be careful what you wish for". You may be doing far, far, more purification with your quiet, non-dramatic practice than you could possibly imagine. In fact, your description sounds pretty darned good to me! |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 3:25:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
You may be doing far, far, more purification with your quiet, non-dramatic practice than you could possibly imagine. In fact, your description sounds pretty darned good to me!
But I love fireworks! I want to see some lights, have some electricity in my spine etc.. Will be cool  |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 3:31:11 PM
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Let me add. I "may be" doing more purification. I may not be. That "may be" part is what scares me. Till I get some concrete experiences, I wont get the confidence that meditation is working "for me". (I'm sure that AYP works, basing on my intuition and people's experiences over here)
Even though such fireworks might distract me temporarily, the confidence they would give are invaluable in my opinion.
-Near |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 3:52:51 PM
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Judge the degree of purification from the degree of grasping you're doing in the real world. That's one reason AYP advocates engaging in the world rather than retreating. It's your yardstick and your mirror.
And if you really dig fireworks, thank goodness you're not having them. Everything happens perfectly. The confidence, too, happens from noticing shifts of behavior in the real world. Fireworks are just fireworks. Pfft. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 17 2006 3:54:32 PM |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 6:01:50 PM
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| I don't think we will get the fireworks until we are ready, which will probably mean when we can be unattached to them. So this is often a paradox in spiritual matters, what we want we will not get, when we are (mature enough) to not want it then we will get it. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 6:28:40 PM
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Fireworks aren't attainment. There's nothing to attain. Just a bunch of mud to clean off our windows.
The process may or may not generate "experiences". Those experiences are pure distraction if they do happen. They don't help.
And that's really all there is to it, promise.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 6:38:25 PM
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I rember reading somewhere on the forum that conductivity is dependant on a number of factors.
It depends of the strength of the energy and also on the size of the conductivity channels.
So if you have large channels and average or low energy you may not feel a lot of conductivity.
If you have narrow channels the energy will course through them at a higher pressure and when it meets blockages will spark and feel electric, hence conductivity.
There is no doubt that the presence of conductivity is very reassuring. It can also be a trap which says "oh I've got conductivity therefore I must be advanced". I don't believe this to be the case any more than someone who is very flexible is very advanced.
It may be as weaver says, you are not ready. But I seem to remember reading that you could feel the energy flowing through your meridians (or am I wrong about this).
Maybe it is your bag, as it is mine, that you will not experience a lot of conductivity, but as Jim pointed out, the real tester is how we interact in the outside world. What changes are happening?, do other people notice a difference in you.?
Louis
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 7:37:15 PM
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Few people notice a difference in me. If I started acting all "yoga-ish", they would. But I choose not to make stylistic changes to my personality, having no compulsion to telegraph to the world my awesome god-like spirituality.*
But I do perceive, since I started AYP, a difference in how others interact with me (even if they don't, consciously). Jim versus The World is an entirely different sort of contest...in fact, we're just about at truce. I notice that I'm not falling less in love with the universe when things don't go my way.
* I did freak out a friend a couple months ago when we were eating on an outdoor patio and a huge rainstorm erupted and everyone started freaking out and running indoors and I just sat in the middle of it all, grinning and calmly sipping my drink as if nothing had changed. He said "dude, you've gotta stop with the yoga already..." |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 17 2006 8:01:58 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2006 : 11:38:26 PM
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Hi Near,
You said:
Let me add. I "may be" doing more purification. I may not be. That "may be" part is what scares me.
Purification is happening every time you do AYP no need to worry. All you have to do to prove it to yourself is to do too much in the way of practices and you'll find out.
Have you not experienced moodiness, headaches, restlessness irritability etc. from doing too much or getting up too quickly from practices? These are all sure signs that release and purification are taking place.
Ps- I don’t recommend going over, it’s no fun! Well maybe a little bit on some level!
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2006 : 12:00:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
Till I get some concrete experiences, I wont get the confidence that meditation is working "for me".
Hi Near,
Do you experience more calmness and stability of mind in daily life because of your meditation? I would say that is the surest sign of progress and that meditation is working for you. The fireworks will mostly come from energy-producing practices. As Anthem says, that's something you can test yourself. I did that myself, after only 1 year of meditation I started both advanced siddhasana and kumbhaka, and sure enough kundalini awakened after only a month. But my channels weren't ready from pranayama, so I quickly ended those advanced practices to get rid of the heat. I was very relieved to get back to the stability again. And I can sense a gradual, gentle opening as things are going now, but I treasure the peace from meditation the most. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2006 : 01:19:01 AM
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| I think for some people meditation is like taking vitamins: You don't necessarily notice any benefiits while you're taking them, but once your body gets accustomed to them, you'll definitely notice the difference once you stop. My inner princess l-o-v-e-s drama. and nothing would please me more than a fireworks display during meditation. That's probably why it never happens. We all get what we need in this department. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2006 : 05:43:40 AM
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Jim wrote:
quote:
That's one reason AYP advocates engaging in the world rather than retreating.
To me this can also mean to retreat from a false engagement and instead engage in a true one. The transition can leave you "antisocial" for a while. This is no problem as long as it is transitional. Sometimes we do need time to ourselves. Balance means just that. It is not only when I meditate that I feel a need to be by myself. I can engage in the world and still be by myself. It is not necessarily a sign of "overdoing meditation" that you feel the world to be "noisy". The world is noisy. But it is also the silence that permeats it. It is always my own noise I hear when I perceive the world to be more noisy than silent. That noise is only a problem if I identify with it - or resist it while it is there.
quote:
The process may or may not generate "experiences". Those experiences are pure distraction if they do happen. They don't help.
And that's really all there is to it, promise.
Well....
The process often renders me speechless. The experience of being speechless is certainly not a distraction. It is alive and there is so much wonder...
These experiences helps me a lot. They are glimpses that keep expanding.
Except for the ecstacy there are no other fireworks. The ecstacy too, keeps helping me. I have pondered over why we experience this so differently, Jim.
You say the ecsatic experiences will go away one day. I do understand that the conductivity will eventually have free passage and that the "fireworks" will subside......but on the other hand; the "glow" you speek about that will replace it has been there in me for a long time too. The way I perceive it, there is "the strong sexual, rising, wild torents of ecstacy" - then there is something I call "the vapour". The vapour is also ecstatic, but in a completely relaxed way. It is always with me, and after every "top" of ecstatic current this vapour is a kind of residue. It is this "residue" that makes me feel whole. Silent. Alive.
I simply cannot conceive of this "vapour" disappearing. It is a subtle substance. It is not a current going up - it is widespread and all over the place. That is why I say I can never be lost again.
I agree fully that seeking pleasure (whether is is ecstacy or anything else) is pointless. Seeking pleasure and avoiding pain is exactly what perpetuates our misery. But I do feel it is playfull and completely ok to be wonderous once you do perceive conductivity in your system. It is, after all, a great wonder, is it not? Rejoice! But when you meditate, you meditate. You favor the mantra. But afterwards it is ok to celebrate
May all your Nows be Here |
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yogani
USA
5197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2006 : 09:37:36 AM
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Hi Jim and Katrine:
My feeling about it is that the ecstatic process is what it is, or not, and we don't have to label it. Of course, we do. It goes all the way back to Adam and Eve -- the labeling.
Interestingly, our quest for this kind of pleasure leads to its own fulfillment. It is God's snare, so to speak.
In any case, I think you have put a wonderful description to it, Katrine, the ero/ecstatic roar refining to a vapor, and this is what gives our inner silence the wings it needs to pour out in every direction. A very delicate and subtle process of marrying these two sacred qualities that live in us -- stillness and ecstasy. Once it has happened, it is not so subtle. It is stillness in action, divine love relentlessly penetrating every cell of our being, every cell of the cosmos within and all around us.
I tried to put words to this in the new book "Spinal Breathing" with more clarity than perhaps in the past. Please let me know at some point if I succeeded.
Thank you for shedding more light on the sacred marriage. It is very significant that we can be having these open conversations. Collectively, we are making good progress. It is an unending celebration!
The guru is in you.
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2006 : 10:29:03 AM
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Hi Katrine,
Your description of vapor makes me feel you are at the advanced stage that yogani talks about where ecstasy and inner silence merge together to lead to enlightenment. Nice to have you here.
Hi anthem, weaver and others,
Thanks for the suggestions. I am sure AYP works. Definitely my meditations feel lot more deeper than before. I can clearly see the difference. In the beginning every small thing used to disturb me -- clock ticks, my breathing, swalloing saliva, minor outside sounds etc... Now I dont think about these things and these days it has been much better. More like a flow. One thing that worries me is I dont need much rest at the end. Just a few seconds. Ofcourse during meditation some sudden outside sounds feel much more louder inside which means purification is happening.
The reason for the lack of fireworks (as you guys have pointed out) may be because I havent tried energy works on a regular basis. Pranayama, I have done on and off and just recently got steady in it.
-Near |
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Vacation Day
