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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 1:01:10 PM
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chas,
You might be getting a little overexcited about what other people eat. And about other people killing their food. Life feeds on life.
Also, addiction is something entirely different from food groups.
You might like to read Yogani's book "Diet, Shatkarmas, and Amaroli" which has a very wise treatment of this subject of choosing a diet. He recommends a light and nutritious diet, and the rest is up to individual preference.
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Edited by - JDH on Jan 26 2011 1:21:25 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 1:43:37 PM
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I'm unattached. I'm just trying to dispel some myths and misinformation, and those don't effect me fundamentally, either. I don't consider killing to be "wrong" at all. I observe that human killing does cause pain, suffering, ecological and environmental damage, and disease. If one is happy to contribute to these, then I support them fully. I want everyone to be happy, regardless of what they do or don't do, and regardless of who the individual is.
I have read and I agree wholeheartedly with Yogani's advice on the matter, please see my extensive disclaimers at the beginning of the thread...From here, it seems that what I am saying is consistent with Yogani's advice, i.e. "lighter, more nutritious diet", and is consistent with non-violence/compassion practices (Ahimsa:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID ) . It also seems appropriate for this forum.
At any rate, I do care deeply for animals and humans. If a single animal is spared its life and/or pain for any period of time, -and/or- if one human being experiences even just a little bit more health and joy as a result of this discussion, then I would consider our time and energy here to be well spent. I am truly sorry if what i say here offends you, that is not my intent. I started this thread with the intention to help anyone who is interested, and those who are looking to change their diet...
Addiction IS related to food consumption as well as other substances. They all operate through the same mechanism- the craving mind.. Which is not "bad", it is what it is.. Whether or not we choose to see it for what it is- is our choice. Some people want to indulge the craving mind, some people want to eradicate it or decrease it's power. Its all a matter of preference, or intention. Nothing in duality is absolutely right or wrong. But there is cause and effect. If a person cheats on his/her spouse, that is not absolutely wrong, but it is likely to cause pain and suffering to the person's spouse and others (i.e., children, oneself, etc..) so the question becomes, do you choose to add pain and suffering, or do you choose to add love, joy, and compassion? Regardless, I am not "overexcited", i'm merely pointing out some effects of the causes.. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 27 2011 9:12:42 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 7:23:49 PM
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A question Chas,
I am trying to understand dr Graham's idea of the candida bloom because I have had occasional problems with fungus since I was young. I don't know what kind of fungus, i was a vegetarian and the doctors said nothing can be done. Now it is less and less frequent, but sinus problems, I think maybe fungus again.
So, since I am not much of a book reader, can you tell me what the theory is? Something about sugar in the blood stream when there is fat too? So is the idea to get sugar without any fat to somehow starve the fungus?
Thanks. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 7:54:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
A question Chas,
I am trying to understand dr Graham's idea of the candida bloom because I have had occasional problems with fungus since I was young. I don't know what kind of fungus, i was a vegetarian and the doctors said nothing can be done. Now it is less and less frequent, but sinus problems, I think maybe fungus again.
So, since I am not much of a book reader, can you tell me what the theory is? Something about sugar in the blood stream when there is fat too? So is the idea to get sugar without any fat to somehow starve the fungus?
Thanks.
Etherfish,
Candida is a fungus. It is present in everybody. "Bloom" refers to the rapid multiplication and presence of candida. Our body allows it to reside, because it is a life saving organism. When our blood sugar levels get too high for the body to effectively deal with, these candida will multiply and eat up the sugar. If we rely on these organisms often, they will multiply to a point that they cause symptoms in the body. Of course, the fact that they are multiplying is a good sign, because otherwise, we could very well die. The idea is not to eradicate candida, but to create the conditions necessary to maintain balance in the body, which will naturally decrease the number of candida organisms necessary and its symptoms in the body. When there is "too much" dietary fat, it will stay in the blood for quite a long time following the last meal - if it included a lot of fat (the body can clear low amounts of fat, less than 25% or so of total calories from fat with no problems, normally). Everything it comes into contact will get coated in oil. This includes the sugar, insulin, cell receptor sites, and more. When this happens, the insulin cannot do its job effectively (to a degree in proportion to the fat and sugar present). At various levels, the body is programmed to let these candida take over and fill their purpose. Nature is perfect, and this is indeed a perfect design. Note: I would advise against taking out the candida directly (with drugs, garlic, oregano oil, etc.,as some health professionals advise). We need that candida. If you cannot find balance due to your pancreas problem, there are ways that you can get some relief from symptoms, although symptoms serve a purpose as well..One that comes to mind is dandelion (great for allergies, reducing mucus and such)
Also, keep in mind that diets rich in anything besides whole food, as I consider it, will cause a mucus build up in the sinuses, digestive system, and many other areas, varying by degrees. The mucus' function is partly as detoxifier (especially in the sinuses ), and partly to protect the soft internal tissues (especially in the case of digestive system) from the foods toxicity and the friction/damage that it causes as it moves through the system. The best solution for this again is balance. If one is eating naturally, the body doesn't need to compensate so much..
Love |
Edited by - chas on Jan 28 2011 7:18:45 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 8:25:58 PM
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Thanks Chas,
I'm guessing it doesn't apply to me, since my blood sugar problem is not high, but low blood sugar, and the insulin works very well and quickly. Unless that is candida or something similar working quickly, but have you
heard of candida taking blood sugar down too low? I eat almost no sugar at all, except for starches that turn into sugar.
I guess I will watch and if there's a sign like peeling hands, try to watch my fat intake and see what happens.
Thanks Chas. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 8:32:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Thanks Chas,
I'm guessing it doesn't apply to me, since my blood sugar problem is not high, but low blood sugar, and the insulin works very well and quickly. Unless that is candida or something similar working quickly, but have you
heard of candida taking blood sugar down too low? I eat almost no sugar at all, except for starches that turn into sugar.
I guess I will watch and if there's a sign like peeling hands, try to watch my fat intake and see what happens.
Thanks Chas.
Yes, when they "bloom", they multiply extremely rapidly and eat all of the sugar very quickly. This is how blood sugar levels "crash". When they crash, you are cutting off energy going to cells (the body will then start "burning" glycogen reserves, if these get depleted, the body will then "burn" body fat, then toxins, then muscle).
If you wouldn't mind sharing, what starches are you having? Caloric fat intake? |
Edited by - chas on Jan 27 2011 10:22:03 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 8:55:28 PM
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i don't keep track of that!
The worst starches I have are potatoes, with steak and eggs breakfast. But blood sugar never crashes after that. Sometimes eggs benedict served with a little fruit at one place, blood sugar goes a little low for a couple hours, but not too bad.
I often have cooked broccoli or brussels sprouts, sometimes corn or potato chips after work. Still no problem after that.
But if I eat a little sugar or fruit on an empty stomach blood sugar always crashes proportionately to how much sugar I eat. So not as bad if mixed with other foods, and better yet if it is early in the day and a lot of physical activity afterwords. There is a daily threshold - go over that and the reaction is really bad. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 9:20:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
i don't keep track of that!
The worst starches I have are potatoes, with steak and eggs breakfast. But blood sugar never crashes after that. Sometimes eggs benedict served with a little fruit at one place, blood sugar goes a little low for a couple hours, but not too bad.
I often have cooked broccoli or brussels sprouts, sometimes corn or potato chips after work. Still no problem after that.
But if I eat a little sugar or fruit on an empty stomach blood sugar always crashes proportionately to how much sugar I eat. So not as bad if mixed with other foods, and better yet if it is early in the day and a lot of physical activity afterwords. There is a daily threshold - go over that and the reaction is really bad.
Okay, seems like a lot of fat...I would highly recommend taking the time to track your intake in terms of calories.. It sounds like you have fat in the bloodstream causing insulin effectiveness to be compromised, then candida rise, then blood sugar crashes/blood system depletion (sugar cleared) thanks to the candida, followed by blood sugar spikes when eating carbohydrates, with simultaneous insulin depletion... out of balance. I mean that in the nicest way possible It is a cycle of life processes going on in the body.... |
Edited by - chas on Jan 27 2011 10:06:43 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 9:57:13 PM
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Thanks Chas,
It's pretty hard to believe that all that could be going on while I feel good all the time, but I will consider it. even when there is a fungus problem I feel fine. Just something like peeling hands.
I don't know how to keep track of calories and amounts of fat etc. Maybe next time I have a suspected fungus problem I will cut out all fats and see what happens. Normally it would last for a few days or couple weeks so I will see if that makes a difference.
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Edited by - Etherfish on Jan 26 2011 10:04:37 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 10:11:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Thanks Chas,
It's pretty hard to believe that all that could be going on while I feel good all the time, but I will consider it. even when there is a fungus problem I feel fine. Just something like peeling hands.
I don't know how to keep track of calories and amounts of fat etc. Maybe next time I have a suspected fungus problem I will cut out all fats and see what happens. Normally it would last for a few days or couple weeks so I will see if that makes a difference.
If one is moderatly healthy, and meditates often, the nerves are going to be feeling pretty good. But, that doesn't mean that you're not having problems with balance in your physical body- with sugar uptake, transport, an delivery. It is a very important process that we could all be well served to pay closer attention to, myself included.
I wish you well.. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 28 2011 12:10:05 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 10:25:21 PM
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Thanks Chas.
i know there is too much fat in my system.
I thought it was balanced by eating a high amount of raw, but maybe not.
I never thought about sugar uptake, because i don't eat sugar. . .
might have to set up some tests.
so if I decide to try the balance you are talking about, is there an easy way, or do I have to read the book & keep track of calories etc?
The reason is, although my diet seems perfect for me, sometimes unknown things happen like fungus, that don't effect how I feel but I'm curious how to control it because I know it isn't right. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jan 26 2011 10:33:47 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 10:38:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I never thought about sugar uptake, because i don't eat sugar. . .
Every cell in the body runs on glucose, "sugar", whether the source comes from protein, fat, or carbohydrate. We run inefficiently on fat sources. Protein is never really a primary source unless one is loading up on eggs, protein powder etc.. In each case, the fat or protein is transported, broken down, and metabolized into simple sugar. (Protein is broken down to amino acids, or turned into fuel, if necessary..) We run most efficiently on carbohydrate as a primary source, preferably whole.. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 26 2011 11:27:29 PM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 10:53:39 PM
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quote:
so if I decide to try the balance you are talking about, is there an easy way, or do I have to read the book & keep track of calories etc? quote:
Yeah, I would also find a good Naturopathic doctor, maybe have some blood panels and muscle testing (applied kinesiology) done. You might be able to solve real or perceived pancreas issues this way (this is how I found out my adrenals were shot in my early twenties). 80/10/10 is great, The China study is great. Cousens' books are pretty good. They are each on amazon.. I posted links at the beginning of the thread on Thursday 1/27/11.. David Wolfe is fun a guy in person..and on YouTube..not sure about his views on fat..
I would suggest a calorie counter app or program. Then you can just select what you want to eat, it will give you nutrition info, and calorie content. Try to keep fat calories at around 25% of your total..if you are going to eat cooked starches, things like whole grain rice, quinoa, whole wheat bread, etc.. are pretty good. If you are eating meat, I would suggest getting the "lean" type and combining a lot of fiber with it to help it move along (it has zero fiber)...Lots of dark greens are helpful..
Best of luck... |
Edited by - chas on Jan 28 2011 12:11:13 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2011 : 11:47:26 PM
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| Yes I already eat quinoa and lots of dark greens. Prob just need to cut back on fat. . i'll see if there is an app, but I don't know how you figure quantity - oz of each thing. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2011 : 12:04:48 AM
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You can also use www.nutritiondata.com. Search at the top right. For example: If you enter "raw avocado", it will take you here : http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts...uices/1843/2
You can change the quantity on that page, see the caloric breakdown towards the middle of the page, and note the calories from fat. The goal, is to keep that number at or below 25% of total calories eaten for the day. So, I need roughly 2600 calories daily, that would allow me 650 calories from fat per day. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 27 2011 09:57:24 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2011 : 08:11:31 AM
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Thanks Chas,
I'll see if there is something for blackberry because I'm often not near a computer.
This will be an interesting test because fat is something I haven't experimented with much. I just figured it had to do with how I look or my belly. not that I'm happy with either of those, but I figured acceptable, and moved on. i didn't know fat could be related to other things in the blood. I'll probably post here after testing for some time and see what happens.
I'm having broccoli without the olive oil, toast without the butter for breakfast to start. Kinda sucks but I'm going for more important things here. I thought fat was one of the last vices I could live with! Maybe not. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jan 27 2011 08:17:46 AM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2011 : 10:32:27 AM
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Yeah, watch out for the oil. Very easy to overdo, as we discussed before. Make sure that if you use it, to carefully measure and log it... Also, the body digests fat best when taken at once, in the evening (after meditation, preferebly not within 2-3 hours before sleep), and with vegetables.. Daytime energy is better fueled by (whole  ) carbohydrates.. But, don't wait until you're hungry..if you are hungry, you have already waited too long to eat, and you will be more likely to choose less nutritious foods. (hunger is a symptom)
Keep in mind, if you are reducing fat content, you are going to need to make up the calories from carbohydrates. It would be difficult to consume that much broccoli at a sitting, and get enough calories (it is bulky and calorically light, although very nutritious). You don't want to have caloric deficiency, as it is unhealthy and will lead to strong cravings. (unless water fasting- please only attempt this with proper planning and with knowledge/guidance/supervision)..
Love |
Edited by - chas on Jan 27 2011 1:22:27 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2011 : 6:21:45 PM
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I don't have any trouble eating a lot of broccoli, quinoa etc. I eat a whole romaine heart before breakfast and the equivalent before dinner. But I'm really not the kind of person who can measure, look up and log what I eat.
i will be doing well just to eat less fat for now and see what happens. I'll look up some fats and see how many calories they are to get a rough idea. I looked up butter and serving size is 1 cup! Ha ha. I had to divide it down - average pat is prob 50 calories.
Thanks Chas |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2011 : 10:39:20 PM
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Chas, no offense meant on this, but you sound exactly like a number of militant vegans i know.
No, they haven't convinced me to become a vegan. The argument that veganism is the one true diet falls short on logic.
The only reason I say this is because you seem to make a whole lot of assumptions in your arguments. And those assumptions are suspect.
Eat what your body mind and spirit tell you to and be happy! |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2011 : 11:30:41 PM
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quote:
Chas, no offense meant on this, but you sound exactly like a number of militant vegans i know. quote:
I have been an "animal rights activist" before... You probably have heard many of these same things from your "militant" friends? Do political activists annoy you as well? If so, you're gonna hate me! But, don't worry, I'm pro-peace, pro-love, non-violent, non-judgmental, and non-militant..
quote:
The argument that veganism is the one true diet falls short on logic. quote:
There are many diets. There is also cause and effect..relativity.
quote:
The only reason I say this is because you seem to make a whole lot of assumptions in your arguments. And those assumptions are suspect. quote:
Please elaborate?
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Edited by - chas on Jan 29 2011 11:46:17 PM |
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JDas
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2011 : 07:30:21 AM
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I think it's funny that I/we sometimes make the assumption that we are all the same and sometimes we assume that we are all different.
Are we all the same physiologically such that dietary changes will have the exact same effects on each one of us?
Seems to me we are of us in our own box and that box is different?
What's more is that we all have differing sensitivities to what's going on inside the box.
Some folks will eat a food and report amazingly vivid sensations while others none at all, like me, as I am still learning to 'feel' what's going on inside there.
I think we eat what we're supposed to eat and that's determined by something outside the mind.
It's what I believe, could be all wrong. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2011 : 11:11:02 AM
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We humans have the same basic biology. Certain causes are known to have certain effects. The effects are observable at various levels. If I say that smoking causes cancer, is that an assumption? I wouldn't consider it one because it is consistent with reality. However, not everyone who smokes gets cancer. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the U.S. Heart disease is also correlated with consumption of animal products. As is cancer.
It depends on ones intention as to what is "best". If one has the intention of getting lung cancer, smoking might be best... Asbestos inhalation would do a pretty good job. If one wants to be more healthy, a lighter, more nutritious diet might be best. Reducing fat consumption might be in order.. these are consistent with known science and observable reality.
If a person stumbles upon this information without any intent of changing diet, the information can be threatening to the individual, and make it seem like one needs to change. But, no one needs to do anything. If there is not an urge coming from within, outside influence is not likely to change peoples behavior anyways, and that is just fine. Thats how we operate, generally. Thus, the difficulty that "animal rights activists" and most other groups face when soliciting uninvited information. If a person is not ready to change something, another person is not likely to talk them into it. I started the thread here for those who are interested in improving diet and "one perspective" of how to do that and which direction that is likely to go. If one is perfectly happy with their diet, they are unlikely to read books on diet, or to consider views different from their own. Its all good... I still think that people should follow their inner guidance, and do what they are inclined to do, as I have said on this thread. There is not right and wrong, but there are different effects from different causes.
And yes, by eating more light and nutritious, most people get much more sensitive. I can try to explain why, if you are really interested. There was a time when I could eat two big macs, and not feel bad, physically or otherwise. If I did that now, it would likely be very painful and make me very ill..
If one is looking for change, and would like confirmation by M.D.'s, nutritional scientists, scientific data, etc..then I would recommend one or more of the books I included on the initial message (especially "The China Study" for the scientific minded). If one is not looking to change, I suggest skipping over or disregarding this discussion, and carrying on as normal. |
Edited by - chas on Jan 30 2011 12:22:11 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2011 : 11:51:13 AM
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As you see from earlier in this thread, i disagree with Chas on finding the perfect diet for you personally, but one thing we agree on is that diet can make a huge difference in your health and well being.
There are only a handful of things in life that make that much difference.
We are all the same in one respect, that we all need protein, carbs, fat, which are mostly converted to sugars eventually. But there is a wide variation in the quantities of those things needed by the individual, and how they are delivered.
So no, I don't think we all eat what we're supposed to eat, and diet is one of the most common causes of disease. This is not obvious to us because the body is so good at compensating for any kind of problem that it is difficult to see the correlation between a specific food and the result it has on our body.
I think us meditators are even more sensitive than the average person to what is going on in our bodies, and it's good to occasionally make a change and see how we feel. Personally I can feel very subtle differences that I often can't even put into words, but I know if something is good or bad. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jan 30 2011 11:52:08 AM |
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one perspective on diet
