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 What can I DO in daily life to further humanity?
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  5:35:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Namaste Friends,

I am hoping that someone here can point me in the right direction so I can research more what is pressing on my heart. I have a dilema in my heart over the fact that I am not "doing" enough to better the state of things here on the planet. I know that I can focus on my own personal spiritual developement, and I am with my twice daily AYPractices, but all the instruction I can seem to find here in the lessons and on the forum about what I can do in my daily life is basically observe myself and the effects that my practices are having on me. This seems a little thin to me. I started searching the Bhakti, Jhana and Karma yoga section, but nothing there really seemed to fit what I am trying to get across. This is why I have posted this in the Cafe section. (Moderators please feel free to move the topic if desired) What I am looking for is not really ways to serve humanity in a small way as I feel the problems we face are global in nature and therefor must be addressed on at least close to the same level. What can we as yoga practitioners DO to help change the direction our species is headed. (disaster in my opinion) Maybe most of you don't feel there is a need to do anything, but I do. Any suggestions from those who feel a pressing need to DO something?

In Love,
CarsonZi

brother neil

USA
752 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  5:53:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Carson,
what is a small thing? if you help one person it could lead to a big change, sometimes if we try to help on too grand of a scale we may not be able to be personal enough to really feel the effects in ourself. If for instance you work in an organization you may have limits and restrictions that will take the personal feelings out of it. But then again look at yogani, he is able to help on a broad scale and in turn that helps us help each other. Personally I like to help homeless people, I also am starting a exercise/yoga group to help assist teachers in my school, doing those things I get one on one interaction. also, be aware of those around you. for instance I have a person at work who has foot troubles, so I went online and ordered a wooden foot massager for her, I also know of someone in prison so I take time and write to him, have also sent him some books. Be open and you will find ways to help out
my best to you
I am love, I am peace, I am joy
I am neil
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tadeas

Czech Republic
314 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  7:45:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey CarsonZi,

I've thought about that a lot of times. From my perspective it comes down to acting from where you truly are now. With ease, naturally. Not getting ahead of yourself with all kinds of mental constructions about how things should be or how they are.

If you look at manifest existence as having a certain structure to it, you can see that there are places where your energy has more effect. So where do you choose to direct the energy you have? Somewhere near the base of the whole structure are spiritual practices. They change the fundamental properties of the mindset you're operating in. And that's really important for freedom - to loosen the rigid mind structure and identification with it. So just be aware that with too much thinking about what you should do you can throw yourself in a new kind of prison :) The thinking is OK, but it's good so long as there's balance... and when at the moment you're done you're able to let go off of all that.

Also look at the sources and causes of the problems you'd like to solve. Then go deeper and deeper into the causal structure and see where you'll end up. It might as well be you :)

Also observe your motivation. If you're going to do something with the underlying mindset of "not enough", "gotta help" etc. it might not turn out to be that good :)

It's ok to relax and do what you love doing.

For me the question "what should I do and why?" led me to inquire deeply into myself and it also led me to do the ayp practices. I'm certainly the type of person who'd like the most perfect solution. The answer turned out to be that I'm free to follow my heart, to go with the flow, to let go. :)

In time it will become clear that you're really that, infinity, the shining reality, everywhere, in everyone, happening effortlessly. Help yourself, sir ;)
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anthony574

USA
549 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  7:49:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit anthony574's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
CarsonZ, I know exactly how you feel. With things with global warming looming over us it can create some real anxiety about the state of things.

I get these states of panic sometimes when I feel a frantic need to change everything about what I'm seeing. But I have enough rationality to know that I can't be ranting and raving down the main strip with a cardboard sign saying something like "YOU NEED TO SEE BEYOND THE ILLUSION". I think we can guess how I would be percieved.

Honestly, I dont have an answer for us. I try to see past the tendency to see this as a cop-out, but, I really do think that change needs to happen individually. If you become self-realized then you truly affect everything and everybody around you. The more people who become self-realized the more they spread and it goes on exponentially. It can really seem like you are an ant trying to move a cannonball, but I don't see a real alternative. If you were to do something drastic ranging from ranting and raving to terrorism the point would not be made and there are many in history and the present who go that route and nothing ever changes because of it. Then you have people you meet in your everyday life who really make a deep impact on your whole being and that is where I think the most valuable change is to be found.

I believe you can't really be 100% sucessful agent of change until you become self-realized...and that can mean you practice the dharma or you are just a really compassionate and tuned-in farmer. The less ego you radiate the more there is room for presence and stillness and it is felt.

Tolle also helped me sort out this anxiety. it can also seem like a cop-out to, in the midst of worrying about the disasterous future, simply focus on the present. however, when you think about it it really isn't because NOW is all there is and the future doesnt exist. the conceptual future is just composed of future NOWs so truly you affect change the most when you are focused on the NOW.

My heart goes out to you, brother. I know this is a heavy burden to bear and I share it with you.

Edited by - anthony574 on Sep 17 2008 8:08:47 PM
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yogani

USA
5188 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  8:16:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi CarsonZi and All:

If you have not seen the movie "Pay It Forward," consider taking a look. It really captures the essence of service in a practical way. There is an AYP lesson on it here: http://www.aypsite.org/166.html

Many small acts of service, paid forward, add up to big change.

All the best!

The guru is in you.

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Jo-self

USA
225 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  9:30:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jo-self's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I once read a SciFi novel by Issac Asimov called "The End of Eternity" when I was a teen, and for some reason one 'scene' in it really impressed me.

The Eternals, time engineers, simply changed the position of a pair of reading glasses belonging to a scientist. When the scientist reached for them the next day and didn't find them, it put him out of sorts. This led to other changes, and so forth. So like the butterfly effect, our actions cause ripples that have unforeseen repercussions. And, if we are acting from a more subtle level, our actions are even more powerful.

This is just to emphasize the interconnectedness of action. Its sort of passive, like in the 70's people over using the term "Karma" too much. But, until you find or are lead into a more active role, this is another way of looking at it. Not all are called to be heroic, the corner posts of a house are not grand, but without them the roof would fall down.


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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  9:52:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
AYP practices ARE the answer you are looking for. The concept you are holding that you are not doing enough is an illusion created by your ego, and that is the most important thing to change. The ego is what tells you that everyone else needs to change.
As you find peace in AYP meditation, just keep God (or whatever your highest ideal is named) in mind as much as possible during the day.
Then just keep that desire to make the world a better place and God will show you exactly what you can do to make the maximum amount of change. He will lay it out in front of you so it is easy to see. Then you can do the things he shows you while feeling wonderful and the feeling that you are not enough will be gone.
All of the things you see now may be part of your path. When you put God first all day, you will know for sure.
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  10:04:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Everyone and thank you for your kind replies.

Tubeseeker: When I said "small ways" I was meaning helping one person at a time. That's trying to save the world one person at a time and it feels like I'm trying to empty the oceans with an eyedropper this way and I KNOW there has to be a better way. I commend you on your ambitions and please know that you and your efforts will be in my prayers.

Tadeas: In my opinion to view the world "without construct" is to bury your head in the sand while your friends and neighbors burn in flames all around you. Watch the news, it's centred on the burnings. And believe me, I am looking at the underlying issues causing the problems I see all around me and have been trying to discuss that here, but it is really not the right forum for that, and have had to take the discussions private with others. Please see this thread to understand what I am talking about. http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=4407#37410

Anthony: It's not really global warming that concerns me, it's sustainability that concerns me. I don't have panic attacks per se, but I do feel that I can't waste a second raising awareness if nothing else. But I too realize that becoming something like that Frank "12 Galaxies" guy from San Fransisco, walking around carrying a sign and protesting doesn't actually solve anything, and it doesn't motivate people to change, and that's what really has to happen.

"How can we motivate people to change the way "we" are collectively living, for the sake of both humanity and the planet?"

Tolle seems to be an advocate of the "bury your head in the sand" technique, but I have never read his books so I can't really comment there.

Yogani: I have seen the movie and it makes me cry every time. But I KNOW this is "idealistic". If people actually paid it forward the world would already be a better place. Pay it Forward is not a new idea by any means. Maybe the articulation of it as such is, but the action itself is not. That's really borderline saying "preach do unto others" and all will be well. Or like saying "just leave it to karma" to sort things out. There HAS to be a more active and influential role that we can all play. Even before self realization is complete.

Thank you all for your input and ideas. Hopefully one day we will be able to come up with even greater ideas as to how to change the momentum of humanity.

In Love,
CarsonZi
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  10:16:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Etherfish;
Sorry, I was wrting my response before your post was moderated so I did not see it until after I finished my above post. I understand the role that the AYPractices and my own self realization play in the transformation of humanity, and that by all definitions of the words are "no small conquest" and really do make a large difference. BUT, I am looking for something "else" I can do in between my practices that will have the maximum impact for good. I will continue to take your advice (I have been doing this already) in holding my ishta close to my heart at all points during the day, and keep looking for opportunities that God presents me with. But I still feel there has to be something more substantial that I can do.

In Love,
CarsonZi
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  11:00:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
CarsonZi,
IMHO the most important thing you can do for humanity is to change yourself for the better which it seems you are doing by continuing the AYP practices. (probably already mentioned here somewhere on this thread.)

Trying to impose YOUR will on the destiny of humanity is futile...

"Not my will..but THY will"

Isvarapranidhanani

Edited by - machart on Sep 17 2008 11:06:35 PM
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2008 :  11:31:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes i agree - different ways of saying it.
What I was trying to say is that we are already being shown the path where we can do the most good.
So that is why it is most useful to work on ourselves rather than try to change others. Your ego will make your path look utterly useless and boring. When you change yourself, the whole world changes! This sounds impossible now, but believe me, that is literally what happens, and it will boggle your mind.

But that doesn't mean ignoring the world around us and spending all our time meditating. What is around you in your everyday life is your path to doing the most good. You don't need to find another path; you need to see the one in front of you better. No amount of reasoning helps.

if there is a bunch of work to be done in front of you; do that work for God (or the Divine Mother). If you cross paths with someone who needs help, help them, etc.
If you keep the divine Mother or whatever your greatest ideal is, in mind while doing this work, it will lead DIRECTLY to what you are looking for.
I've found that I need to keep God in mind for most of the day for about three days before I start seeing things differently.
When you do it's wonderful because you can finally put your effort into doing the most good for the world, instead of wasting time looking for something that's hard to find.
Then as you continue this practice, eventually you will be shown exactly why you are the only one who can do the work that is layed out in front of you. Then you know for sure you are doing the right things.
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 18 2008 :  12:06:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Machart: What about the between meditation times? If meditating, then going to work, coming home, meditating, doing householder duties, and sleeping isn't cutting it, if this routine is leaving me feeling like I am not doing enough to better humanity, then what? And I don't think trying to keep "our" culture from "going extinct" is imposing "my will" on humanity. It's aspiring to have a remotely inhabitable planet for my great grandchildren to live on. I don't see that as "impose(ing) YOUR(my) will on the destiny of humanity".
Etherfish: when you say "When you change yourself, the whole world changes!" I have to disagree. When you change yourself, your perspective of the world changes, but the world in fact does not change. Not that simple. when we change ourselves we make a difference on the immediate people in our vicinity, but that isn't quite the goal we need to save ourselves from extinction. We need to think bigger. Somehow.
I'm not saying that I am about to drop the AYPractices and start leading some "world change" cult, I KNOW how important the Practices are to myself and to humanity. But there HAS to be something more that we can do when we are not in practices that can make a larger impact on people then we are currently making. Think about the communications capabilities we have now-a-days!!! There HAS to be something more that we can be doing to save humanity from itself. I won't give up.

In Love,
CarsonZi
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 18 2008 :  07:53:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Carsonzi wrote:
quote:

Etherfish: when you say "When you change yourself, the whole world changes!" I have to disagree. When you change yourself, your perspective of the world changes, but the world in fact does not change.


Of course it is your perspective that changes. But it is your perspective that creates your whole world.
In other words when you think the whole world needs to change, you are seeing one perspective. Also when you see the whole world as perfect the way it is, that is another perspective. Neither one is "correct".
But only by being in contact with your highest ideal can you find what you truly need to do to help the world. As long as you are using your ego to find it, you will waste a lot of valuable time. It has to come from outside yourself.
In other words, there is something inherent in the way you are thinking that is part of the problem and needs to be changed.
I'm not saying the world doesn't need to be changed.
What I'm saying is the logic you are using to decide what to do will not help you find where you can make the maximum difference.
Your highest ideal, whether that would be the divine mother, God, Jesus, or someone else, is trying to show you what to do to make the maximum difference in the world.
Our logic and constant thinking stand in the way of divine presence giving us this gift.
It doesn't sound logical for this to be true. only by realizing it will you know it to be true. Then you can take the action that you are already seeking, but don't know how to find.
It's ironic that being quiet with meditation, then remembering divine presence during the day can have such a profound effect on our lives. The path is so simple but our ego tells us it is so difficult.
not that it will be easy - just uncomplicated, and definitely easier on the brain.

Edited by - Etherfish on Sep 18 2008 08:05:16 AM
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Sep 18 2008 :  08:11:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Nithyananda was once asked, "I want to bring smile on the face of needy people... "... Nithyanada said "First bring a smile on your face.. then let that smile overflow and bring smile on others face... else in the name of service you will only be imposing your ego on others". He talks about some kids who had to do some kind of social service for the day.. and when the teacher asked them what they did.. the 3 boys said "we helped an old lady cross the street".. the teacher said.. "it took 3 of you???" They replied.. "yes.. the lady did not want to cross"

Have you read Yogani's Self Inquiry book? He describes the five stages of self inquiry:
quote:
5. Merging of Subject and Object I am That. You are That. All this is That. Ongoing outpouring divine love, service to others, and unity.


Give it some time Carson, by continuing with your practice, you will be this outpouring of divine love, and the more people there are in this stage, the more positive energy we add to this world. Right now "you" want to change the world to what your "ego" thinks the world should be like. When your ego drops, the world will change to what is good for it. Samayama you know. Like I said in another post.. all you can do is ask in silence and let go.. knowing and trusting that your prayer will be answered, not necessarily in the way your mind thinks it should be.

PS: If you would like to do something between your twice a day sitting practice, do some self inquiry. If you have not already done so, get Yogani's Self Inquiry book.. it really is a treasure. Also, go through this topic: Self-Inquiry -- A Practice Between our Meditations

Edited by - Shanti on Sep 18 2008 08:30:49 AM
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YogaIsLife

641 Posts

Posted - Sep 18 2008 :  08:36:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit YogaIsLife's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi CarsonZi,

I am glad to see this issue also raised in a spiritual forum as I had the same questions myself. When I first got to this forum I searched for terms such as "environmental" and "sustainable" to see if people were also concerned with this things.

Well, from my point of view I can tell you that the more I think about the issue the less I know. I am concerned, like yourself, about the sustainability of our planet. Since I am a child that I find cities to be "unnatural" and even distructive in terms of the planet. I always was aware that our culture and present way of living is not sustainable. If you look at it logically that is also clear: looking at how things get to supermarkets and our hands, how they are produced, transported, etc., there is major toll in all of this, socially, environmentally, etc. A big price to pay for our consumer society.

But well, what can we do? I try to do the minimum of course: ride my bike, recycle, reduce consumerism, I am mostly vegetarian as well, try to buy organic etc. This are simple things that you can do. If you have a home you can look at your energy expenditure, look at other forms of producing your own energy (solar panels, etc.), recycling water within the home, etc. There are a thousand small great things you can do. Look, for example, at permaculture (or other resources in the internet) for many ideas of practical things you can do. I guess, by example, we can accomplish a lot. Also, I rest assured and am inspired by the great many people that are actively working to make this a better world and working in raising awareness in people every day. Things ARE happening, even if you don't notice them. Just search a little and you will find many like-minded people.

As for the great scheme of things...I don't know. I didn't gave up but I believe I am changing. I also tried to change the world but it didn't work out I followed environmental sciences to try to make a change but what I see is the use of science to try to curb the problems, not really solve them. So I guess change has to come from within each person, a willingness to change, an awakening as well to see that they can have a better, more fullfilling life when they see that everything is connected and we need a clean, healthy and happy environment for us as well to feel happy and healthy. Everything is connected. This is true from any perspective: ecological, economical or spiritual. People are blind, that's all, or afraid.

Well, I ended up burning myself out with all this ideas because it is clear to me that we are not sustainable but I could not find a way to change the world as well. I even thought (people I admired did that) living in the countryside and producing my own food and living (or trying to the max) in harmony with nature. What better example then to live your life according to what you think is right? Somehow I did not find the courage or strength or opportunity for that. I now am giving it a good bet in trying to change myself for the better first. Feeling good with myself. First of all I need it. Then, something tells me that, if you do become aware (realise experientially) that we are one and become in contact with the universal love then we are in a much better position to bring this light to the world. Maybe that is the best bet in changing the world. In the meantime I keep avoiding excesses of consumerism, keep riding my bike and try to live a life that makes sense to me. For the time being it has to be a compromise between what I would love the world to be and the practical living in the world as it is. I have faith though. Things don't happen by chance. There are many and powerful forces in work in the world. We did not have this explosion of technology/population just because. I believe these is a force of the universe. We are part of nature, our actions are part of nature, there is a grand scheme of things at play.

Well, hope this helps! Glad to find other concerned people that are both active in the spiritual and practical arenas to make this a better place! It is laudable that you feel the need to do something. Try to directed in a positive and productive way though. By the way, I also read Ishmael (saw another thread of yours) and it was a book that really inspired me, summarised very well, for me, the recent evolution of humanity. All the best.
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Wolfgang

Germany
467 Posts

Posted - Sep 18 2008 :  10:53:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit Wolfgang's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Imagine yourself as a channel of Light
and as a source of Light.
Then send your Light to the Earth with
the intent that your energy is used for God's will
and that God uses your energy to the higher good.
I found this concept on following website
http://www.odysseyofthesoul.org/lightenup.htm
and I found it to be a workable method.
So whenever I feel that I should do more for the world
I focus and send Light

regards
Wolfgang
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brother neil

USA
752 Posts

Posted - Sep 18 2008 :  2:52:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Many people in this world are unhappy, so that means it can be hard to find a happy person to talk to. if you become happy then people will have an outlet for being happy. Changing your self will change the world, that is too simplistic, there has to be somethign more master your breath and you will master your mind, too simplistic as well, there has to be something more as long as you always believe there has to be something more, there will always have to be something more. Six months ago I would not comprehend what I have just written, just like when I first read yogani's book dawn of the witness I was perplexed, as with many other books. Now I believe I am starting to see more. jesus supposedly once said, "there are those who see but do not see, there are those who hear but do not hear" He also said "the kingdom of God lies within" have you found your kingdom of God within, and if the answer is no, then how will you help others to find theirs? Feed a man a meal for a day and his stomach will be hungry the next day, feed a man's soul and you may fill him/her for life.

will this world live forever, I dont believe so, will God survive if the world dies, that I do believe. Try to save the world and you may not help a soul, try to help a soul and you may just save the world. Just my thoughts, not necesarily gospel

I am love, I am joy, I am peace, and so are you
I am neil
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 18 2008 :  5:46:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Of course this does not mean you can't take action while you are waiting for God to guide you. if you have a burning desire to help, volunteer near where you live. This could easily lead you to a path where you could help more.

"In this life we cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. "
and:
"We need to find God, and he cannot be found in noise and restlessness. God is the friend of silence. See how nature - trees, flowers, grass- grows in silence; see the stars, the moon and the sun, how they move in silence... We need silence to be able to touch souls. " - Mother Theresa

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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2008 :  11:52:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond everyone....I had a golf tournament yesterday and didn't have any time to post much. (and no I didn't win, I tied for 2nd/3rd, dammit)
I'll try to be as comprehensive as I can in this response, but please forgive me if I miss a few points as there is a lot to be said in response to all 5 of you. Here I go:

Etherfish: you said: "Of course it is your perspective that changes. But it is your perspective that creates your whole world." I am not looking to change MY world. I am looking to change THE world. I can change my perspective all I want, but that doesn't change the reality of how the world IS. Maybe it changes MY reality of how the world is, but not THE reality. And that is what needs to be changed. I have no desire to change MY reality, I have a desire to change THE reality. The reality that humanity (or at least "our" culture) is on the brink of cultural collapse if not extinction. And I am not trying to use my "ego" to find my path. This has absolutely nothing to do with me and everything to do with the future of life as we know it. I don't care if I live or die, but I DO care if there is a planet (or a species) left for my great grandchildren to be part of. I don't really consider this ego-based, but maybe you do. Only I really know my intentions though, and I can tell you that they are pure and not ego driven. It is not even about ME saving the world, or ME making a difference. I just know that SOMEONE has to stand up and make a difference, and it might as well be me. It's easier to do somethings yourself rather then trying to instill a desire in a stranger and have them do what you wanted in the first place. So again, it's not about me, it's about you and me and the rest of humanity and the planet. Has nothing to do with my ego. And I DO hold my ishta close to my heart at all points during everyday. Doing this is easy for me as my ishta is purely "self realization". Much easier to hold onto an ishta like that (in my opinion) then to hold onto a "god" ishta. And it's easier to find the "proper" path too in my opinion if you are looking to your "self" for the answers and not looking outside oneself to an external "god" for answers. And when you say "What I'm saying is the logic you are using to decide what to do will not help you find where you can make the maximum difference." what exactly is the "logic" I am using here? I'm not quite sure what you are getting at saying this....

Shanti: you said "I want to bring smile on the face of needy people... "... Nithyanada said "First bring a smile on your face.. then let that smile overflow and bring smile on others face... else in the name of service you will only be imposing your ego on others". This is true, and I understand this. But what if the desire is not to put a smile on the face of someone, but to save his species from extinction? Saving myself DOESN'T save the species, it only saves me and maybe the few people around me. There has to be a way to have a larger impact than that! And I have not read Yogani's Self Inquiry book, but I am very well studied in Adyashanti's Self Inquiry methods. (although I think he needs to preach inner silence before preaching a stand alone Self Inquiry method.) I DO occasionally use the Self Inquiry methods devised here, but I find Self Inquiry to be either limited, or ego-stroking depending on the day for me. I probably don't have the degree of innere silence necessary to get the full benefits from S.I. And I am not looking for more practices to do between meditation times, I am looking for ACTIONS I can take between meditation times that will have the greatest impact on saving humanity from itself. And again, just to clarify, I am looking for ways to help larger groups of people because helping people one at a time seems like trying to "empty the ocean with an eyedropper" and makes very little if any difference in the grand scheme of things.

Yogaislife: Not sure if it was just a "language" thing, but I am not concerned about the sustainability of the planet, I am concerned with the sustainability with the way humanity is living. The planet will "always" be here...it may not be inhabitable for humans for long, but the planet is not in jeaprody, humanity is. Pretty sure that is what you meant, just wanted to clarify.
Something you said really bothers me though, and I must explain.... You said"We are part of nature, our actions are part of nature, there is a grand scheme of things at play." This is sooooo wrong i nmy opinion. THIS idea is what is going to get us all killed. Our actions are NOT a part of nature. Nature is NOT on our side! Nature is NOT backing us and our way of living! The earth cannot continue to take the abuse we are giving it. The abuse we are giving the planet is NOT sustainable. Soon we will not be around to continue abusing the planet because of this. Until we realize that we as humans are continually breaking a law of nature by the way we are living, we are going to continue on this path and eventually "off" ourselves. This "law" of nature is defined by some as "The law of limited competition". We are the ONLY species on the planet that does not obey this law. And it is a law like gravity, a law like thermodynamics, and we as humans are unfortunately not above this law just like we are not above the law of gravity. Yes, we can conquer and use these laws to our advantage, but only if we acknowlege that the laws exist. The law of limited competition states that "you can compete to the best of your ability, but you cannot hunt down your competitors to ensure a greater food source, you cannot deny them access to their food, and you cannot destroy their food." When we disobey this law we decrease the diversity of the planet which causes ripple-like effects in all areas of life on the planet. We (and our food) are more suseptable to disease, famine, natural disasters and such because the bio-diversity of the planet is what keeps everything in balance. We have destroyed the natural balance of the planet! And are continuing to destroy this balance. And only when we realize that we are pushing ourselves closer and closer to the edge, can we start to DO something about it.
I too "burned myself out" trying to do too much for humanity in this regards in my younger years, starting protest groups like "Students for a Free Tibet", creating rally's and walk-outs and such to try and raise awareness, but I hope that with my new-found inner silence I can pick up where I left off years ago, and I hope I won't burn myself out this time, I hope that this time I will actually make a difference.

Wolfgang: This is a very interesting idea, and I know very little about it at this point, so I'm going to continue to research it for a bit before I comment further. Thank you for the suggestion!

Tubeseeker: You said "Try to save the world and you may not help a soul, try to help a soul and you may just save the world." but I think you forgot the ending part that you put on most of your other sentences in this posting...."that is too simplistic". Platitudes like this can only go so far. Please see my response to Shanti as it is basically what I would say to you as well.

Etherfish: I am volunteering already. And I am also about to start a meditation group at a rehab centre in my city as well. I am doing what I can to give back to my community, and such, but there has to be something I/WE can do on a larger scale that can make more of an impact then just working person by person, city by city. With all the people here on the AYP forum, with the global reach we have with participants here, with the communications capabilities we have in this day and age, there HAS to be a way that the AYP community can make a larger impact on the world around us. (and I do understand that inner silence is necessary in order to help others properly, and I take time twice daily to cultivate this inner silence)

Thank you everyone for your continued participation in this thread and for all your suggestions.

In Love,
CarsonZi
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2008 :  8:01:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
CarsonZi wrote:
quote:
(from Etherfish)"What I'm saying is the logic you are using to decide what to do will not help you find where you can make the maximum difference." what exactly is the "logic" I am using here? I'm not quite sure what you are getting at saying this....


There is a new age starting. There is a tremendous increase in spiritual energy that is causing things to change. The effects of this energy are divisive in many ways. It is causing people to be split into opposing groups. You can see many of these groups around you. You may notice that each group sees the great changes happening, many of them see the changes as catastrophic, and blame the other group for causing it.
There is more than one layer to this division.
A higher spiritual layer is that most of the groups who disagree believe that the end of the world is near.
On the other side of that coin is a growing spiritual group that believes that ONE END is near, but not THE END. They know that the people who believe in the apocalypse are seeing things in an "old school" way that is soon to be obsolete. They see that the root of the problem is people not getting along, not the hundred things that are the end of the world, like the environment, the economy, the terrorists, etc.

There are many who believe that people will be separated somehow, some say into "believers" and "non-believers or infidels", some say "christians" and "non-christians" as in the rapture, some say "good" and "bad" people, some say "people who try to manipulate others", and "the humble or meek", and there are a lot more. Many of these believe the whole world will end and one side of the divided people will survive.

There is a possibility that self-realized people live in heaven on earth and help other people who continue to argue among themselves and believe they are living in hell on earth. it is this group who believes that the only solution is to help people change their perception so they can be self-realized also. Then all the other problems we have in the world will vanish. They don't ignore the problems, they still pay the bills and take care of the environment, but they put self-realization first both in themselves and in others.

The ironic thing is, until the number of self-realized people reaches a critical mass, and the whole world tips in their favor, the other people will still see hell on earth and an apocalypse nearing.

So I am saying two things: One, self-realization is necessary to see how to BEST help the people who are living hell on earth.
and Two, there co-exists a heaven on earth that makes it easier to help people greatly, like you desire.

Also, the result of people's perception being wrong is the CAUSE of EVERY problem you see, including environmental. That's hard to believe, but as you meditate more you will see this. The earth is responding to the emotional turmoil of people.

Sounds like you are already doing a lot of good; thank you.

Edited by - Etherfish on Sep 19 2008 8:10:50 PM
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brother neil

USA
752 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2008 :  8:37:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
try some simple stuff, hold the door open for someone 5 times a day. Wave to someone while driving or walking 20 times a day, say hello when you pass someone on the street 10 times a day. Doing this you may be the only person who has done something nice for that person the entire day. and for everyone that does not say thanks, smile, wave, etc... send out your love to them instead of letting your ego get upset.
I am love, I am peace, I am joy, I breathe free, I am thankful to the teachers, I am of the one, the same one as you
I am neil
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2008 :  9:57:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Etherfish: First off, thank you for your conversation. Please don't take my arguementitiveness as anything other then a desire to arrive at truth. Sometimes I play devils advocate just for the sake of dialectic conversation.
Secondly, I understand ALL about the "shift" that is happening. One of my "majors" of study is the 2012 Mayan Calendar, and all the resulting area's including DNA, crop circles, fairy lore, shamanism, etc etc. I too believe that there is a spiritual shift happening, but I am not one of those people that think that THE end is near. At least not the end in the apocolyptic sense. I just think that "we" (our culture, no distinction between East and West in THIS culture) are not living sustainably, and we haven't been for about 10,000 years. And the end of "life as we know it" is what is looming large in the near future. And people's perceptions are yes, the cause of all of this. But how do we CHANGE PEOPLE"S PERSPECTIVES? Especially if they don't realize that they need to be changed?
Tubeseeker: I live by these principles everyday. Part of the reason everything looks at me like I'm an alien all the timehaha

In Love,
CarsonZi
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brother neil

USA
752 Posts

Posted - Sep 19 2008 :  10:28:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Carson, one of the major things yogani preaches is purification of the nervous system. if you do this and a shift occurs your nervous system will be better suited. When you can maximize your absorbtion of nutrients and can eliminate toxins through cleansing techniques, such as hands on knee pose where you suck up the belly, I forget the name. But when you do that you better prepare yourself for tomorrow. Also, if you purify yourself and obtain the ability to do sidhis you will be in a better position to help mankind survive the 2012 if it does occur. I may not do everything Yogani says by the book, but his writings seems to have covered most of the bases. Gently favor the practice

I am love, I am peace, I am joy, I breathe freee, I thank the teachers and I am of the same one as you
I am neil
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newpov

USA
183 Posts

Posted - Sep 20 2008 :  08:54:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit newpov's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Carson,

You are a caring man. I worried for you a few days ago. It seemed that you were racing too fast. Now I worry again, that you may be over-extending yourself in another way...

quote:
when we change ourselves we make a difference on the immediate people in our vicinity, but that isn't quite the goal we need to save ourselves from extinction. We need to think bigger.


Without economic or political leverage or without possessing organizing skills, how can you, within the circle or milieu that you live in by luck of the draw, work individually or team up with others to save our species from extinction?

Perhaps grandiosity or egoic need to feel "special" or more powerful than others can boomerang in needless self-torture. The i am that is written about in the Wilder novel spans all worlds, so why be overly invested in the unawakened species of this one? If this world burns out, for whatever reason, there will be many other worlds for you to save...and serve...if that is indeed your perceived desire or need.

Why not put AYP to more stringent testing? Could it be that Samyama practice may benefit all present and future worlds, not just this one?

newpov

PS:

Why not step up your practice routine to 3-4 times daily if your job permits this? Powers may come to you, which if they are genuinely sourced in i am, will give you new, unimaginable forms of leverage to meet our specie's need.

PPS:

"... Do not keep the prophecies of this book a secret, because the Time is close. Meanwhile, let the sinner continue sinning, and the unclean continue to be unclean; let the upright continue in his uprightness, and those who are holy [those who do AYP practices] continue to be holy." -- Revelation 22:10-11

In other words, cut your own grass and run your own game... and be clear that it is YOUR game that you are running, not some game others would lay upon you...

Edited by - newpov on Sep 20 2008 09:27:59 AM
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Sep 20 2008 :  10:02:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
CarsonZi wrote:
quote:
And people's perceptions are yes, the cause of all of this. But how do we CHANGE PEOPLE"S PERSPECTIVES? Especially if they don't realize that they need to be changed?

You can't force people to change. That's what dictators do, and yes, they believe their cause is just enough to warrant it. People like hitler believe they are on God's side and are saving humanity.

But your question is EXACTLY what i've been answering. When you change yourself by meditation and constant rememberence of your ishta, you will be shown exactly what to do to make the change you desire. The system is set up to prevent bad people from gaining too much power. That's why you must change yourself first. You don't have to be self realized to gain this knowledge. I am far from it, but already have that connection. I am shown exactly what to do, and I know I am doing the maximum I can to help the world.
There is an answer that is custom tailored for YOU, but only you can find it, not us.
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newpov

USA
183 Posts

Posted - Sep 20 2008 :  10:23:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit newpov's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Carson,
quote:
Said Ether to Carson just now: There is an answer that is custom tailored for YOU, but only you can find it, not us.

Running one's own game is supremely difficult when others don't ratify our ideas or answer our appeals...

Be holy. Give in to surrender and let that ishta EVOLVE into a different vision, one that is more attainable.

Maturity means living with the frustration of not having your answer NOW.

Meanwhile, let the other guys sin, if that be their choice. If you save yourself, then you'll have something of value to give away to others, besides mere empathy or sympathy.

Service or practice: self-pacing would seem essential in both endeavors.

newpov
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