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 Bhakti and Karma Yoga
 What can I DO in daily life to further humanity?
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brother neil

752 Posts

Posted - Sep 20 2008 :  10:25:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
[i] I am far from it, but already have that connection. I am shown exactly what to do, and I know I am doing the maximum I can to help the world.

brother etherfish, why would you say you are far from it, saying that would keep you far from it yes? are you not already it but just dont recognize it yet? So if you are it how can you be far from yourself? touch your nose, is it not right there?

with love
I am joy, I am peace, I am love, I breathe free, I am greatful to the teachers, I am of the one, the same one as you
I am neil
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brother neil

752 Posts

Posted - Sep 20 2008 :  3:48:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
another suggestion on further assisting humnanity

dont fart in elavators, that is a big help;)

I am love, I am ioy, I am funny, I breathe free, I thanks the teachers, and I am of the one, the same one as you
I am neil
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641 Posts

Posted - Sep 21 2008 :  07:18:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit YogaIsLife's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi CarsonZi, sorry the late reply.

I am just replying to your reply to my reply :) Yes, it was a language thing, we agree in the meaning of "sustainability". Well I said "We are part of nature, our actions are part of nature, there is a grand scheme of things at play." because I think it is true. We cannot not be part of nature, part of the universe and not be under the rule of the same laws that apply everywhere. We are. And I see you see, as Quinn, that we are not understanding the laws well and so are doomed. Quinn mentions ecology laws, and they seem to me to be quite accurate and logical. Still, life is not all logical or it would bevery uninteresting. Miracles do happen and the mind cannot understand the immense beauty and mistery of the universe. So, for me, no single dogma or logical explanation or theory is 100% accurate. There is a Truth of things, but that truth cannot be encapsulated nad explained by the mind only.

You must know that I agree with you in our position as a species in the world and I resonate with your concerns. But, from my experience (and from a deeper intuition) I feel there are greater forces at play that are beyond our control. You can call it evolution or a force of the universe or consciousness evolving, etc. I don't know what it is but it has always been there. Things are indeed getting polar like Etherfish said. Just think about how things changed in the last 100 years or so. population triplicated, we invented electricity, went to the moon, etc., etc., etc. This all happened very fast. Where did it came from? Do you control your thoughts? How does someone come up with the theory of relativity or the idea of electricity? Don't you think there is a spark of divine inspiration here? That does not mean we shouldn't feel/be responsible. But always with self-pacing (too much of a good thing...) I agree that a great help for the problems in the world woudl be if people started to feel and act responsabily in each moment. But all things in moderation! We cannot carry the weight of the world in our shoulders as well...we end up helping nothing and tiring ourselves!

I reesonated very much with what you said here: "I hope that with my new-found inner silence I can pick up where I left off years ago, and I hope I won't burn myself out this time, I hope that this time I will actually make a difference." I feel the same way. HEre is where self-pacing is needed, not to fall again in the same traps. For me the measure now is how joyfull, blissful and loving I am in every day life. It's a sign of how well I am becoming better and better able to help. Then, like yogani says, we just outpour love and change the world without doing a thing. I believe this is true. Then, whatever is in your heart (the will to change the world, for example) will be expressed effortlessly and efficiently in everyday life. And more tahn that, it will be a joy

So, get that beautiful burning fire you have and let it fuel your desire to be and see love in the world. just don't let it burn you

Sorry for the confusing writing...I know you are passionate about this subject, just trying to help. As they say "seek and you shall find". This is true for anything, if you want so desperately to change the world the means will come to you. Just make sure it comes from your heart and from love and not from you rmind or ideas of what you think must be right. It seldomnly is. Reality is much more deeper and simpler than that.

(by the way, tahnks for the tip on the other Quinn books, I will check them out)

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3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  1:23:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everyone for all of your responses. I REALLY want to go through all the postings individually and reply but I don't have the time right this minute. I DO however have the time to say one quick thing that I feel the need to get off my chest here and now...Yogaislife, you hit the nail on the head for me I think when you talked about the measure of your success being the bliss, joy and love you feel on a daily basis...I too feel the bliss, joy and love, but I feel trapped in a way. I feel as though in order to TRUELY measure up to myself, I not only have to FEEL the bliss, joy and love, but I have to SHARE the bliss, joy and love. And I am not finding the medium I need in order to give away some of this love etc. I have a wife, (newly wed even) who does not practice AYP or yoga in any way really. I can't even instill within my own newly-wed wife a desire to capture for herself the inner silence that is making it possible for me to have had this radical change in my life. She can even SEE the difference AYP has made for me, and yet she has no desire to have this for herself! I watch her struggle day after day with things I can help her with, and things I can show her a routine with which she can rid herself off the suffering she is enduring, yet NOTHING. My family, (visited with them last night) see's this drastic change in me, I am a new person they say...they see that I am almost a completely drug free drug addict in less than 2 months, after 15 years of battling heavy drug abuse issues...yet they won't actually LISTEN to me when I tell them (and show them) what has created this change in me. They see me take a 45 minute meditation "time out" before dinner yet noone asks me any questions about how THEY might go about benifitting the way I am. It's like the whole world could have a solution DROPPED IN THEIR LAPS, and they would stand up, let the solution fall to the floor and walk away in pain and suffering, complaining that noone cares enough about them to help. This is killing me inside! I feel as though I can help, but noone actually WANTS help! They just want to complain about how they are suffering! They DON'T WANT TO STOP SUFFERING! I just don't understand this.

Sorry to rant like that, I will try to get back here soon and answer everyone to the best of my ability.

In Love,
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183 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  1:53:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit newpov's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

Last night I spoke with my brother, two years younger than I, saying, "Brother of mine, I could not hope for more than you as my closest companion in this God quest which awaits us all." We discussed how the God quest is more feasible than ever, all it takes now is hunger, bhakti or devotion. I said that practices can work to increase devotion... He said he would be supportive of me and be an ear for me, but he did not see this yogic pursuit for himself. To be sure, I still seek approval or applause or ratification by others--possibly because it is so hard to stand alone and be alone in this pursuit, isn't it? Chalk that up to my immaturity. I am single, having divorced years ago. Today I would not know how to survive in a marriage with an earth-bound spouse who shares no interest in heaven. Would you be better off one of these days living without this marriage? Or can you be content and be capable of living within this marriage you find yourself in without loading your expectations or hopes onto her?

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5192 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  3:19:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi CarsonZi:

I think it is important to know that we cannot create desire in another person. It is desire coming from within the person that precedes everything else they may do on the path. It comes from surrender to their higher ideal -- their higher ideal, not ours. We can certainly inspire others to consider this, and that you are doing wonderfully by your own example. But beyond that, it is up to each individual. Whenever it happens, it is within the framework of each person's life aspirations and challenges.

To the degree our own expectations get tangled up in whether someone else is desiring spiritual unfoldment as much as we might wish them too, there is our lesson and our self-inquiry for today. When we can live amongst a crowd of people who care nothing about the spiritual path, and keep radiating and smiling in stillness, then we are really getting somewhere. It is a letting go, which is part of our surrender to our ideal. And that energy will continue to radiate out to everyone else, and have its appropriate effect. How others may eventually manifest it, who can say? We are doing our part.

Of course, a little satsang (spiritual company) now and then doesn't hurt. That is what we are here for, and why we start meditation groups, teach, engage in retreats, and inspire research by the professionals who can inform the public.

Carry on!

The guru is in you.

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3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  3:23:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

I am just newly married, so perhaps I am not in the best position to answer, but I will try anyways....

I have thought much about whether or not I need my partner to be involved in yoga as well in order for me to fully develop spiritually, and the answer I have always come up with is: I was born alone, I will die alone, and therfor I must go this, alone. Being comfortable as a single human being, even when constantly surrounded by relationships I think shows an aspect of the witness state. It is hard for many to sit by and watch others drown around them while you save yourself, but in so many cases I have experienced, people don't WANT help from me. They want to survive alone or die alone. I may have the life raft for them, but if they refuse to lift their hands and hold on, I can't help them. And in some ways, I have come to grips with this, and in others I doubt I ever will. I love my wife enough that I can allow herself to drown if she desires that. I can show her the liferaft, beg her to grab hold, but I cannot drag her aboard. I have resigned myself to not being able to change her. And I know that I can't drag the rest of humanity onto the liferaft anymore then I can drag my wife aboard. But I can't give up. I can't force things, but I can shop my solutions. And maybe that's the best I can do, show people that the "way" does exist. I can't make them believe it is the way, but I can show them it works for me. And then I gotta let it go guess. Do what I can to teach and live by example, but in the end, I have to let humanity decide it's own fate. I guess I gotta just let go of it all. Save myself, show others it can be done, and live on. It sounds terribly selfish and self-centred, and I'm not 100% sure that I agree with MYSELF in what I am saying here, but this is what came out, and maybe I need to heed my own advice. Thanks for coercing the answers out of me Brian.

In Love,
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3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  4:00:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

Hey, sorry, but our posts crossed there, and I didn't see your posting until well after I had written mine. I understand what you are saying Yogani, and I think I reiterated what you were saying, while you were saying it, funny how that happens sometimes. My only problem now, and the part that makes me have a hard time fully letting go of "the fate of humanity" is because to do so seems "terribly selfish and self-centered" to me. Maybe that's the way it's gotta be, I dunno. I used to feel this way when I was younger, and I ended up hating myself for it, and doing everything I could to change this in myself. Now I guess I need to go back and rediscover my "original" self centered self, and start building again from scratch. Live and learn I guess, live and learn

In Love,

Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 22 2008 4:18:50 PM
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3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  4:19:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
P.S. If you haven't seen the trailer for the upcoming movie "The Shift" check it out here: . Well worth 5 minutes of your time!
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183 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  4:26:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit newpov's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

Brother of mine, that was a difficult but most courageous post. Even when you have no answers, you are living your life, this with admirable grace.

And any stand you take today can be modified in the future, ever increasing devotion to the divine will assure this.

Yogani spoke about “radiating.” If you are advanced enough in stillness and faith, can you say nothing about this to your wife but meanwhile begin letting her name pass into the silence during samyama practice?

As well, consider intercessory prayer? “I see I can't help her, this is up to you, my divine. Thy will be done, on earth as in heaven. Grace our marriage with awakening desire in her for your heaven.”

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3189 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  4:57:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

Yes my friend, you are right again. Despite any stand I may make today, I must stay open to the reality that this stand may change in the future and that "nothing is certain except that death is not partial" (I believe that is a quote from Gautama Buddha, but I could be wrong.) I have already added my wife into samyama practice instead of finishing with the Akasha sutra, and I have taken an "actively passive" approach to "witnessing" to her as well. I do not force her to do anything, and I even try to keep my "yoga talk" to a minimum, while making sure she see's that I am continuing along in my twice daily practices, as well as my methadone reduction etc. and hope that one day she will understand that the issues she suffers with could be overcome with a daily meditation routine. but I am trying not to "actively" push her in that direction. I hope that seeing my life change right before her eyes will be enough to have a desire for unity sparked within herself. Maybe oneday my "radiating" presence will be all that is necessary. For now though, I will continue my prayers/practices/samyama in passive silence and hope that the changes occuring in me will be enough inspiration for her to join me in cosmic bliss. I don't know if it will ever happen that way, but I won't let my wife's choices end MY decision to immerse myself in bliss conciousness. Thank you for your encouragement, and make sure you all have a look at "The Shift" movie preview I posted above!

In Love,
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brother neil

752 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2008 :  5:19:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
carson, thanks for postign that link
I am love, I am peace, I am joy, I am your brother
I am neil
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351 Posts

Posted - Oct 04 2008 :  09:36:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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