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jupiter
USA
22 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 12:14:05 AM
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It seems like the formatting of the lessons pages is somewhat strange. There is considerable blank vertical space between the Q&A on the left and the column of AYP books on the right. Each line in the Q&A ends too soon. As a result, each page has way more lines and requires a LOT of scrolling to read. This happens in both Firefox and IE and is not browser related.
At first I thought the page template was problematic but on viewing the HTML source, the culprit is the break <BR> tag that is all over the place. I am guessing some cut and paste caused these line breaks to be inserted.
In any case, the fix is pretty simple, the unnecessary line breaks need to be removed. I'd rather have Yogani focused on higher value tasks than fixing this. However I am more than happy to go in there and take care of this. I can cook up some emacs (text editor that I use) macros and fix each page relatively easily if everyone agrees that this is the way to go. I can even do a couple of pages as a sample if that will help everyone better understand the fix. Once we agree that we like this, I can do this for each lesson page that is out there.
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 05:11:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jupiter
It seems like the formatting of the lessons pages is somewhat strange. There is considerable blank vertical space between the Q&A on the left and the column of AYP books on the right. Each line in the Q&A ends too soon. As a result, each page has way more lines and requires a LOT of scrolling to read. This happens in both Firefox and IE and is not browser related.
The "short" lines are probably put there on purpose,
and it is a matter of taste (your taste is to have longer lines).
For many people it is probably easier to read a "short" line,
than to be lost on a long line.
You are correct in that many "short" lines create a longer page
and thus need more scrolling. IMHO the scrolling is acceptable
and the easier reading (not to be lost on a long line) is preferable.
So, let's hear what others say ;-)
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 08:21:51 AM
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The short lines could be remains of the yahoo forums where the lessons were first posted.
Anyway, you can check out how the Czech lessons are formatted without the <br> tags: http://ayp.cz/lekce/20/ |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 10:51:21 AM
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Hi Jupiter:
Tadeas is right that the <br> tags came from Yahoo Groups when the lessons were moved from there. Originally, they went to a free Yahoo Geocities website where non-widescreen formating (for 800x600) was automatically added by Yahoo Geocities website SW, so I don't believe removing the <br> tags only will remove the narrow text issue. The Geocities website has since been retired. When the content was moved to MS FrontPage and the current mirrored websites (.org and .com), the Geocities non-widescreen formatting came along with it.
Note: The right hand border is a FrontPage addition, and that is why it shows up all the way over on the right side of a widescreen page, instead of next to the text. If you view the site in 800x600 format, it looks much better. The forum does not have these format issues, because it runs on separate Snitz software.
The website will need to be upgraded to current formats and standards at some point, but not until the writing is further along here. Website upgrade will not be a small job, and help will be much appreciated.
Toward that end, feel free to take a look at the code and devise proposed solutions, but please do not engage me on it until the last two Enlightenment Series books are complete and established in distribution -- sometime this summer. Then I will be in a much better position to discuss it.
Many thanks for your interest in helping make AYP better and more visible to the world. There is lots of room for improvement. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: On Enlightenment Series book box sets and/or consolidation into one volume, that is for later consideration also for the same reason.
PPS: The plan is to resume online lesson posting once the E-Series books are done, so straightening out website issues in that time frame would be an appropriate move.
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 11:21:49 AM
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PPPS: Wolfgang makes a good point also. I tend to get lost on those very wide text lines too. So, some sort of compromise on line length will ultimately be needed for wide screen. I am still using 800x600. Old fashioned... 
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jupiter
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 12:54:57 PM
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Thanks for the feedback.
The Czech site formatting is nice, much better text handling and spacing. BTW, by going towards something like this, we are not necessarily going to lose the 800x600 users. If you see the Czech site in 800x600, it should resize nicely for the lower resolution as well.
But I agree there will be some time commitment involved and this can certainly wait until the appropriate time. |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2008 : 1:36:42 PM
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Thanks much, Jupiter:
Yes, very nice job, Tadeas. It looks like some words are getting split at the margin in 800x600, but I don't read Czech, so it's hard to say. But I get the idea, and clearly a site that can resize itself for the various resolutions is the way to go in this multi-formatted world. The Snitz forum software does that.
Aside from site-wide text reformatting, the top menu has to be replaced with a universal top border menu. It is currently page-by-page (the only option available in the Geocities days), which greatly limits menu changes.
Let's revisit website upgrade this summer when the E-Series books are in hand.
Between now and then, if you would like to work on the website behind the scenes, without my involvement, feel free. I can provide all the HTML, if needed. But I can't afford to get any closer to the quicksand than that right now.
Many thanks!
The guru is in you.
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gray
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 09:46:43 AM
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I appreciate this has been put off as a job for later. When the time comes please bear in mind that the current formatting makes it very difficult to read on some platforms, here's how the main lessons look to me:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2h4yxr6.png
- Gray |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 10:18:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gray
I appreciate this has been put off as a job for later. When the time comes please bear in mind that the current formatting makes it very difficult to read on some platforms, here's how the main lessons look to me:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2h4yxr6.png
- Gray
Hi Gray:
Sorry about that. It is the line breaks that came with text copied from the original AYP Yahoo group lessons. I believe it is Apple/Safari that sees them. No known problem with that on Internet Explorer or FireFox. Not sure about Opera or other browsers.
When the website is upgraded, those hidden line breaks will be taken out (hopefully we can automate that), along with addressing the rest of the things mentioned above.
The website upgrade may be slipping into autumn, since the last Enlightenment Series book (#9 - "Eight Limbs of Yoga") will likely take most of the summer to complete and roll out into the channels. After that, it will be nice to get back to posting online lessons again, and sprucing up the website.
We'll get there. All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: One sure way to get around the line break problem is to obtain the AYP Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living book, which is the online lessons plus about 20% more lesson content, and no unwanted line breaks.
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gray
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 11:12:28 AM
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quote:
PS: One sure way to get around the line break problem is to obtain the AYP Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living book, which is the online lessons plus about 20% more lesson content, and no unwanted line breaks.
I have the book and I can certainly say I haven't experienced any line break problems thus far. :-)
- Gray |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2008 : 11:15:11 AM
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Bravo!  |
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pahool
4 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2008 : 10:57:32 PM
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| I would be happy to strip out the extraneous <BR> tags and could easily automate this if I can get the html for the lessons pages. Yogani, if you'd like me to, let me know. I can post up the "fixed" html on my own web server for folks to check before uploading back to the main site. |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 12:26:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by pahool
I would be happy to strip out the extraneous <BR> tags and could easily automate this if I can get the html for the lessons pages. Yogani, if you'd like me to, let me know. I can post up the "fixed" html on my own web server for folks to check before uploading back to the main site.
Hi Pahool:
Thank you for your kind offer.
We recently went through an effort of trying to fix all of the issues raised in the first post of this topic, and ran into difficulties having to do with the rigid table structure of the current website (can't widen the text easily), the presence of many valid <br> tags mixed in with the invalid ones (automated removal difficult), and a quirk in the editing/upload software here that overwrites changes made externally. So fixing the existing site proved to be the proverbial "can of worms," and we decided we'd rather not get caught in that quicksand.
The volunteer web developer involved is now working on redoing the entire site in CSS format (like the AYP Czech site mentioned earlier in this topic), which will solve all of the issues. But it will take time to get there -- it is a 400+ page site and a significant amount of the work will have to be done manually. In the meantime, the current website will remain intact.
If additional help is needed with the CSS project, may I contact you?
The guru is in you.
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pahool
4 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2008 : 6:13:16 PM
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quote:
If additional help is needed with the CSS project, may I contact you?
The guru is in you.
I would love to help in any way I can. Please feel free to contact me via my profile email address. |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 6:39:25 PM
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Hi All:
Well, I hunkered down and did edits on the website this week. The unwanted line returns in the lessons are gone and the layout has been improved for menu editing, etc.
You will also notice a new left side border providing key lesson links and other items of interest. The plan is to add social networking and bookmarking site icons/links there as we develop them.
Jupiter, if you are still reading, any further suggestions on networking will be appreciated. We'd like to offer many more means for sharing the AYP writings around the web. Thanks for this great overview: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3632#31908
This is not a full CSS (automatic adjustable width) website redo. We looked into it, and realized it would have involved much more time than any of us have available. So this is a compromise for widescreen resolutions. Over 1024 pixels in width, there will still be a vertical gap opening up in the middle of the page, but not as much as before.
Thank you all for your suggestions and support. Further input is welcome!
The guru is in you.
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jupiter
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 2:47:08 PM
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Great to see the progress in improving the web site.
The ready access to key lessons from the left is nice. Provides better visibility to some key content. (Will also help with SEO).
I see the extraneous line breaks are gone. Excellent. Thanks for putting in the effort to clean this up.
It seems like something else is now stopping the text from flowing. I suspect there is a hardcoded table cell width. If this is indeed the case, all we need to do is remove it and it will automatically fill any extra space available. Simple fix with no major CSS edit needed.
I'll spend some more time confirming this... I think a minor tweak is all we need to fix the extra space issue.
Re social networking, I'll take another look to refresh the list we had. Two additions I can think of right away are to add AYP to the DMOZ directory and the Yahoo site directory. Also I have been working on a slide presentation that I'll present here for review and feedback. |
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yogani
USA
5196 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 3:25:28 PM
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Hi Jupiter:
Thanks much. Looking forward to your feedback.
Unfortunately, every page on the site has its own individual text table setting, and site-wide external format edits are overwritten by the old version of Frontpage I am using. I would not mind editing the 400 pages (again) to fix the width issue, but so far the only solutions that have come to fore are adjusting the tables (and/or right border) to a fixed width, or using a % of screen width setting for the tables. There are pros and cons in these approaches, so nothing has been decided yet.
I had not considered removing the tables and copying the text between the borders with no table. The books page is done that way, though it is hard to tell, because it has a lot of formating of links that keeps it narrow also.
Another thing to consider is that any site-wide modifications will generate a certain number of "gremlims" that have to be fixed, not always easy. It takes as much time to get the gremlins out as to do the site modifications. That is what it takes to edit a 400 page website that has been through several incarnations to reach the present. Needless to say, going through such a journey is only worth it if there is a significant payoff in the end result.
In any case, expanding the sharing network to the masses is the priority now. The page width thing can be addressed when a solution become clear. It is much better than it was with the unwanted line returns gone and the left side border added -- not bad at all on 1024 pixel screen width, which is what many people are using nowadays. It is on screens wider than 1024 where the gap in the middle opens up.
I remain open to all suggestions to improve the website, and especially its ability to reach the many who are feeling the inner divine stirring these days. There has been a noticeable increase in traffic since the website upgrade was done last weekend. Something good is happening.
The guru is in you.
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Formatting of lessons pages
