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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 13 2007 : 2:50:56 PM
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Hi All:
In Jan. of this year I had the pleasure of meeting and spending some time with one of the biggest people in the movie industry. A man of great honor and dignity. At the end of our meeting I gave him a copy of Deep Meditation and The Secrets of Wilder. Well to my utter amazement he called me today to thank me for the books and said how he enjoyed them both. Then we exchanged some small talk about golf and then he asked "Did you write Wilder" I laughed and said "No a friend of mine did" or something to that effect. He said he thought it was a great story and said to make sure next time I'm in California we should play some golf and then said "take care and goodby".
Well once I got off the phone I started to have guilty feelings about saying the author was a friend of mine. This caused for some self-reflection on my part. I realized that not only is Yogani not o a friend, but I have never met him, never spoken to him or really know much at all about him other than his writings. It wasn't intentional deception on my part more just a figure of speech.
Then I started thinking about my progress in AYP and my practice of Deep Meditation. I've come to the following conclusions:
My progress seems almost nil. Maybe I'm expecting to much but I've sat twice daily now for almost 16 months. Still no inner silence. No ecstactic conductivity, no pure bliss consciousness. Maybe this form of instruction just doesn't work for me. Surely not everyone is cut out to learn the same way as everybody else. Maybe I do need a "Guru" maybe I do need some form of live instruction. Maybe I'm just having a bad day. But I know I do feel frustrated with my progress.
I enjoy reading the forum but don't really feel connected to an online community. I don't particularily like to type. I much prefer to see people faces whom I share such important things as spiritual practices.Maybe I'm just old fashion.
Well thats it. Time for my afternoon sitting.
Love to you all:
Guy
ps: I teach golf and I'm trying to think how I could teach someone the golf swing over the internet. I don't think very effectively, much less how to play the game with all it's intracacies with much success. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2007 : 4:11:29 PM
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Hi Guy:
When I think back to my early days of meditation, we had three young boys (we called them "the wrecking crew"), and I was working long hours and going to graduate school at night, with occasional meditation retreats -- way too occasional. It was nuts. All I knew was that there was something important going on underneath my daily meditation sittings and that it was a long term gig. So I kept on with it, and expanded over the years into the range of practices that now make up AYP.
I had some experiences in the early days, but it wasn't anything dramatic like the idyllic scenarios we see being described here almost daily. Well, maybe not so idyllic -- a lot of what are seeing today is spiritually challenging. The one thing that is the same is that, like then, the trick now is to just keep going and measure progress over the long term. Admittedly, "decades" may seen daunting to those starting much later in life. But every bit helps, and if there is such a thing as reincarnation, we will take what we have accomplished with us and move forward from there at the next opportunity. And even if there is no reincarnation, it can be gratifying in the present to be pursuing a worthy cause -- our enlightenment and the enlightenment of those around us. We should do what brings us the most happiness, whatever that is. That is all that matters.
Regarding what is the best approach for you, you should always follow your heart on that. For most of us, it will be a combination of things that move us forward. Typically, the point where we find the most resistance will usually be the place we need to walk through, sooner or later. Not always easy to do. It is discussed here from many points of view -- whether it is an energy experience we seem to be stuck in, a time of life, a personal situation, health issue, or some other thing that seems to be buried in us. The nice thing about deep meditation is that it chips away at all the subterranean stuff whether we are noticing it or not. Then, one day, the clouds part a bit, and there is the sunshine.
To be honest, I did not know for sure when AYP started if it would work for anyone. I just had to put what I knew out there, and hope for the best. It was, and is, an experiement. It is the best I can do. It is not my dharma to become a traditional teacher. If it were, it would have happened long ago. I am a researcher in spiritual practices and a writer, a pretty private person really. Nothing more than that. I don't think that me becoming a visible personality would change anything for anyone. Well, it would change things for me, in ways that do not favor the writing I have left to do. I sense that time is short for that, so every minute has to count. It is a relatively small window I am jumping through -- trying to squeeze as much of it through as possible in a usable form before the window closes.
If more direct contact with others on spirituality is what you feel you need, I suggest plugging into resources you have in your area -- a yoga class (asanas can help get our nervous system off the dime), spiritual gatherings of various types, teachers who are passing through, whatever draws your interest. Also, more can be done with AYP by starting a meditation group. That is one way to bring AYP into "up close and personal" mode, greatly increasing the inner silence and energy through the group effect. Well, these are just some ideas. Do what you feel drawn to do.
That is terrific news about your senior Hollywood friend reading a couple of the books. Thanks very much for making that connection. You can be sure that you did not exaggerate in saying a friend of yours wrote Wilder. I am a friend to you and everyone here. Just not a friend of the ordinary kind. Maybe these kinds of friendships are extraordinary? 
Someday I hope John Wilder will make it to Hollywood. It was his destiny in the story, and perhaps it will be in real life too. Well, thanks to you he is being pondered a bit. I think he has visited Hollywood through a few other channels too. The more the better. If AYP becomes more widely known, maybe the movie industry will stand up and take notice.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: Come to think of it, we have spoken, on the radio! 
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 9:02:58 PM
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Guy,
Maybe google "miracle compound interest" for some inspiring articles and calculators about investing just $5 a day type of a plan. Regular meditation is like that... not profound in and of itself even over the course of a few months or years, but more than that and it does get profound. (I'd imagine... I'm *much* more senior... about 18 months!!)
Your Pal,
Yoda |
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 10:55:37 PM
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Hi Yogani:
As always, your words are not only comforting and inspiring, but they reaffirm my notion that I was just having a bad day. I want you to know that for me personally the "experiment" is making life much better not only for me but also for those close to me.
Hi Yoda:
Thanks for reminding me the importance of looking at the big picture and seeing the power of long term residual effects.
Love to all:
Guy
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2007 : 12:12:45 PM
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Yogani wrote:
quote:
We should do what brings us the most happiness, whatever that is. That is all that matters.
Well, what brings us the most happiness has to include how we affect other people on our quest. Some people are so deeply entrenched in making themselves happy that they don't realize that.
Guy, most people would have let that go as a slip of the tongue, only to be corrected if it was brought up again. But you are like me, obsessive about honesty and details. I say one word wrong and it bothers me the rest of the day. I'll make an effort to speak to the person and correct that word, and they will have forgotten about it and think my correcting is weird, and will end the subject a little confused about what I'm really trying to do.
So you and me need to just "let it go" more, knowing we will make mistakes, and have faith that opportunities will present themselves for us to correct them or do better next time. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 10:53:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by robertjames
My progress seems almost nil. Maybe I'm expecting to much but I've sat twice daily now for almost 16 months. Still no inner silence. No ecstactic conductivity, no pure bliss consciousness.
Hi Guy,
I think Yogani basically said it all with the emphasis on long term results meaning decade(s) in some cases. Anyway why bother if you don't get any extatic conductivity etc. now. I mean you know from Yogani that you are doing something very positive for yourself in the long run so that's a plus even now right? It perks up your hopes for the future which is in itself very valuable. In my case it is the opposite. In the last few years I had some awesome experiences because of the AYP practices that I would never had otherwise but some very hard time in one aspect of life.So I would gladly trade my blissful meditation-related experiences for more fulfilling conditions in this aspect. Basically if the lack of extraordinary experiences is your concern right now consider yourself very lucky. Also perhaps if you add the next practice from the book this might change also. |
Edited by - Lili on Apr 16 2007 10:54:52 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 11:47:34 AM
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Hi Guy
You know......it is inner silence that brought you to write this topic.
So:
quote:
Still no inner silence
How do you know?
It cannot be measured that way......
Just continue meditating.
Have you added any other practises?
All the best, Guy!
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 1:32:41 PM
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Just one more thing....
quote:
No ecstactic conductivity, no pure bliss consciousness
When I started meditating back in ca 1984; I had never heard of the above. I never once thought about Kundalini....or ecstatic conductivity until the ecstacy started two years ago. Even the first stirrings of Kundalini (the hand tingling) after the cancer (11 years ago).....I never put it in context with the fact that I meditated. I guess what I am trying to say is that I was never...immersed...in any particular system, until after the happenings. The happenings themselves pulled me to this forum. Not the other way around.
Meditation did that. All by itself. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 11:46:35 PM
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Hi guy,
quote:
Well once I got off the phone I started to have guilty feelings about saying the author was a friend of mine. This caused for some self-reflection on my part.
Inner silence is what makes you aware of your feelings, those without much are often compelled to act them out. Your guilt was there, you noticed it, you reflected upon it, to me this is all possible because of inner silence.
I've had bad days too, I'm pretty sure we all have, we are quick to forget the good things on those days, experiences are so fleeting, like dreams, they can't be held on to... on bad days it can easily seem like we haven't made any progress, has happened to me often.
Some great posts above, as Katrine suggested, maybe it's time to add some practices?
I wish you all the best Guy, it's great to have a golf pro around here! I know who I'm going to see for a golf lesson if I'm ever in NY!
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Edited by - Anthem on Apr 16 2007 11:47:40 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2007 : 12:47:22 AM
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Robert, I've had enough "experiences" for the both of us. It's all smoke and mirrors. You can go on all sorts of dramatic adventures in the real world, you don't need spiritual practice for that. Distraction. Distraction. Distraction.
The good stuff happens when the drama abates and mantra is intoned purely and simply. So you are experiencing the cream...you are getting far more benefit than those of us winding our ways through digressive la-la landscapes.
Yogani writes, over and over, that it's the practice, not the experience, that counts.
And if it wasn't "working", you wouldn't be doing this practice. You know, in your heart of hearts, that it's cleaning your windshield. I mean...you're not SO blindly faithful; there's no way you'd be so foolish as to sit alone, saying "I am" over and over and over, unless you were deeply drawn to it!
What's doing the drawing? Exactly that which you think you seek. Melt into it and don't look back. All the way. All the way. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2007 : 11:10:48 AM
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Hi Yogani,
quote:
I sense that time is short for that, so every minute has to count.
Any chance this is self-fulfilling prophecy? I for one would love to have books of yours to read for years to come!
A
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 10:29:39 AM
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whatever people might say, in my view experiences have their own place. A good experience can definitely inspire me a lot and make me feel all the more confident about my practice. Spiritual success is mostly determined at birth I feel. To become a vivekananda/jesus/yogani you need to be born for that. I personally saw a lot of ppl who meditate all their life and still dont change a bit, still get easily disturbed, still are attached the same as they were when they started etc...
What is the guarantee that I wont end up as one of those? What is the proof that there is an other world (at least for me)? As long as I dont get an experience all these things remain unanswered in my mind.
-Near |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2007 : 9:45:54 PM
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Hi Near nice to hear from you,
quote:
I personally saw a lot of ppl who meditate all their life and still dont change a bit, still get easily disturbed, still are attached the same as they were when they started etc...
There are so many variables here, what type of meditation did they do, did they do too much, did they rest adequately, did they balance it out and go out into the world enough? Did they have additional tools like spinal breathing pranayama, etc. to accelerate the journey, like we do here at AYP?
quote:
What is the guarantee that I wont end up as one of those?
Where is the guarantee that you will?
quote:
What is the proof that there is an other world (at least for me)?
What "other world" do you mean here Near? To me it is a magical world that starts to unfold right here in this world before our very eyes. When enough emotional debris gets cleared away and we let go of enough of our fears, the flow of life rushes in to fill the gap and sweeps us along for a wonderful ride.
quote:
As long as I dont get an experience all these things remain unanswered in my mind.
It's funny Near, when the inner energies first became active for me, there was tons of energy and related experiences for the first 5 or 6 months. The ecstasy of these energy experiences was addictive at times and I definitely did some chasing of these experiences, which is really just a waste of effort in the end. After this initial burst, things quieted down dramatically, kundalini was there but in a quiet background kind of way and continued this way with a few exceptions over the next year and a half, I was only really aware of it at times. I can tell you all those initial energy experiences were quickly forgotten and I was wanting new proof that things were happening, maybe I was doing something wrong or should do something else, sound familiar?
When I look back to that quiet year and a half, I realize that changes took place in a subtler way, not so noticeable but every once in a while someone would comment on calmness or being seemingly at ease, I really didn't notice so much since the change is day to day and so incremental. To me, not much was happening, no bells and whistles like the beginning, was something wrong? Nope, just a changing dynamic, I continued every day, twice a day without missing practices.
Things start to open up at some point, at some unpredictable moment, but the step by step, daily effort of the combined AYP practices start to produce the desired outcome, who knows when, but I believe it is inevitable for everyone.
I did meditation for many years before AYP, with no big experiences of any kind, I know it just felt good and I was drawn to do it. The last 2 plus years of AYP have changed my life in ways I couldn't have imagined from my vantage point of 2 years before.
Do you feel more relaxed after practices? To me this is reason enough to continue.
Stay focused on where you want this to take you and it will get you there.
Best of luck!
A
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Edited by - Anthem on Apr 26 2007 10:07:47 PM |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 02:38:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
I personally saw a lot of ppl who meditate all their life and still dont change a bit, still get easily disturbed, still are attached the same as they were when they started etc...
I think it is a good point. From my viewpoint, Yoga is much more than sitting practices. I think sitting practices are merely a tool to aid "Karma Yoga" which could be difficult to practise otherwise. So expecting that sitting practices themselves are an end in themselves is wrong. Even a person practising meditation still has a choice between letting go and holding on. There is still pain involved in letting go more often the ego self would want to fall back to the comfort zone of holding on. How much a person is willing to let go will directly impact his spiritual growth, and I believe this will even reinforce the inner silence.
A very simple way of putting is that there is no "free lunch". |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 10:45:10 AM
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Even a person practising meditation still has a choice between letting go and holding on. There is still pain involved in letting go more often the ego self would want to fall back to the comfort zone of holding on. How much a person is willing to let go will directly impact his spiritual growth...
Hi Maximus and All,
Very interesting point Maximus, and I think very important also. I think you are completely right, in that the willingness to transcend oneself will directly impact spiritual growth.
So, the view seems to be wrong then, that when doing AYP or Yoga in general, the process of spiritual transformation is automatic, without the will involved (meaning in daily activity, not during the practice). For, example, if you meditate, the mantra purifies you and automatically dissolves the impurities in the nervous system regardless if you want it or not, and inner silence automatically emerges, without any choice made by the individual, except of course doing the practice itself.
So, there must be a will present at some level to transcend oneself and let go of one's limitations (including the ego and other emotional and mental baggage). I think this will is what is called bhakti. And, if this will is present in some measure, then the mantra will do its work and create inner silence, whereby the limitations will come up to the surface of consciousness and one can choose to let go of them or hold on to them. It seems to me that, with inner silence present, the limitations are for the most part not very attractive to hold on to.
So, I guess the crucial question is, will the mantra, if meditation is practiced as prescribed, create inner silence automatically even if a person wants to continue to live and experience their life exactly as they do it now, if there is no desire in the individual to let go of anything in their present setup of ego, desires, opinions, habit patterns, thought patterns, emotional patterns etc.?
Looking forward to more comments on this. |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 11:23:36 AM
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Thanks Andrew and Maximus those are very good insights.
As Maximus says most of those ppl that I saw didnt change are the ones that are selfish and completely into themselves. I doubt if they even had that desire to move onto lesser selfishness. Afterall what you ask for is what you get. At the same time as AYP and other major spiritual practices say, we can start with any of the branches of ashtanga yoga and others will come by themselves. Sitting practices, done well could bring on yama niyamas (the letting go part) themselves. Ofcourse provided we do desire it.
Andrew,
quote:
I did meditation for many years before AYP, with no big experiences of any kind, I know it just felt good and I was drawn to do it. The last 2 plus years of AYP have changed my life in ways I couldn't have imagined from my vantage point of 2 years before.
This is good news for me that AYP did for you what other system wasnt able to do. I am basically drawn towards the honesty and sincerity of these lessons and am happy i am with the best of practices.
But still experiences are experiences ;) I am dying to have one.
-Near |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 11:43:27 AM
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| Near, if i was you i would totally forget about God and any other fancy experiences. Just relax with meditation. Try to will your heart beat to slow down. You might find it very nice. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 11:52:55 AM
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Hi Near
For me cultivating inner silence makes every normal moment an experience of increasing happiness and the experience of life in general more and more a wonderment. I too have wanted to have some of the 'experiences' I've read about, but I think that even if I look for an image or an event of energy to happen to me then that set-up expectation may be a road-block to self-realization. I think transcendance may be an increase of more and more quiet and gentle and soft events at first before it shows itself in all its awesome splendor. I slowly give up my entire attention a little at a time, one day all will be revealed.
What an experience this is
~Alan |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 11:55:39 AM
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quote:
This is good news for me that AYP did for you what other system wasnt able to do. I am basically drawn towards the honesty and sincerity of these lessons and am happy i am with the best of practices.
But still experiences are experiences ;) I am dying to have one.
Hi Near,
I think the years of meditation I did before AYP did help but it was the slow way as I did not have all the tools at my disposal that AYP offers which adds so much to the speed of the process. So those "pre-AYP" practices gave me lot's of progress, just not in the "bells and whistles" kind of way but more in the developing inner-silence and quality of life kind of way.
Fortunate for us, AYP is a very complete path, so progress will be as fast as possible!
all the best,
A
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 12:04:46 PM
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Hi Weaver,
Didnt see your post earlier. Thats an interesting discussion. I am always confused how much should I "will" it. If I force myself to be "the ideal man" from today, I might get hurt because that is not my natural self. Let us say a person is hurt for a silly thing and he wants to take revenge. He wont be happy until he reacts or takes revenge in some form and that is his nature. Getting hurt for minor things is his nature and that will only change with long term spiritual practice. Even if he wants to let go, he wont be able to because his mind will by shouting from inside to react.
Should he force himself not to react and stay unhappy? or shud he go with his nature do what satisfies his mind (though temprarily!) and let spiritual practice take care of things.
Spiritual teachings say we should not force ourselves and let the natural path take in. But to me it is tough to understand why we shud not force ourselves (even though its against my nature) when we are
1.) Doing good to other person by not taking revenge
2.) Doing good to ourselves by helping our spiritual practice
But I have read in many places that if we force also there wont be much benifit. The internal system should change. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 12:17:03 PM
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Hi Near,
My take, and as you say what spiritual teachings say, is that one should not force oneself. That's what AYP teaches also, nothing is done with force, just a gentle nudging the way we want things to happen. That's how we practice, we meditate easily etc. Same is best in daily life, if the impulse is to react back with revenge, not to really force oneself to restrain. Rather, the usual advice psychologically, when feeling heavy emotions, is to wait a little before reacting, to step back, and then it's easier to see a clearer solution and also respond in a more balanced way. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 12:29:52 PM
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| I agree that you should not force yourself to be more moral. With Yoga comes the revealation that the pain of not changing is greater than the pain of changing. Then the role of will power is to be honest and acknowledge this fact and surrender to it. The pain is in the initial steps where the ego wants to fall back to established comfort zones. Once bold steps are taken, the rest will become easy. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2007 : 1:24:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nearoanoke
But to me it is tough to understand why we shud not force ourselves (even though its against my nature) when we are
1.) Doing good to other person by not taking revenge
2.) Doing good to ourselves by helping our spiritual practice
But I have read in many places that if we force also there wont be much benifit.
I think it is because as Yogani says even 'no path' is a path and all roads lead home. If you are forcing yourself then you are not following even the 'no path' and may be it really becomes a 'NO PATH' then. But yeah, you become punishable by law for harming another person, and that's the way it is. |
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aditya
82 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2007 : 1:38:37 PM
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Hi robertjames,
I feel your pain and anguish over sense of nothingness. I went through same so many times.
Let me narrate my experience and see if it helps you:
Till last year Januray - I would try and give up - try and give up - that was all that I would do, until one day I realized that to get in any path you need to leave behind bad habits. I was a smoker - a pack (or two sometimes) was regular for me. I broke that habit - it cleansed my body and then mind just like Graham's law of diffusion - I decreased the intake of garbage in myself. Then it was followed by Pranayam (to cleanse prana by breathing clean air). I did body cleansing - Neti and ShakhPrakshalan - it helped immensely - I got results in few weeks that I could not get in years! On top of that I was reading good literature on the path which I was following - including aypsite as well. Everyone wishes to get a Guru in person, but perhaps that is not what Gurus want (or most of the Gurus). Many Gurus will come to you in person, but most of them will be glass cut rather than diamond. But you can ask for Guru in meditation, they guide you when you fall. Bliss - I don't know what it is. But you can feel energy flow in your body. I have heard that accomplished ones get much more that this in even shorter time span. If nothing else - keep right association - sometimes that helps too. And you will find accomplished people on board here.
Just to tell you how much some people are accomplished: I had energy blockage in my body and a person of this board helped me reduce it - I could actually feel him working on it. We never met - we just exchanged few emails - that is all. Think about the power!
Just keep working in right direction and take out the weeds that stop you from moving further. |
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frustration on progress
