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 Discussions on AYP Deep Meditation and Samyama
 Fuzziness of the mantra
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Cato

Germany
215 Posts

Posted - Oct 05 2023 :  8:59:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hi everybody,

I have some thoughts regarding the fuzziness of the mantra and would appreciate some clarification. I hope I find the right words to express my thoughts:

  • The increasing fuzziness of the mantra is a precursor to its dissolving into stillness, is that right?

  • Knowing that, I find it hard sometimes to distinguish between naturally evolving fuzziness and fuzziness that might be favored (or pushed) subconsciously.

  • I experience difficulty in staying with the mantra when its fuzziness increases. It is like concentrating on a blur.

  • However, I perceive meditating on the mantra with increasing fuzziness as twofold: On the one hand there is the "mantra-thought" (which still can be kind of tracked) and on the other hand there is the "mantra-pronounciation", which crystallizes around the mantra-thought and gets fuzzy.

Does that make sense?

Dogboy

USA
2165 Posts

Posted - Oct 06 2023 :  03:23:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello again Cato

The mantra is ongoing, fuzzy or not. When you notice you are off it, you favor it again. I know some days, especially if tired, I am off the mantra more than on. I offer it up. It is this way today. I wouldn?t put much thought into fuzziness.
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TensorTympani

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Oct 07 2023 :  12:19:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Cato,

I have only practiced DM for a year now, so my experience with it is still quite limited, but I had (and sometimes still have) similar thoughts popping up from time to time.

For me, when the mantra gets to a really fuzzy state, there is just so much spaciousness, bliss and its ``vibratory quality'' coming along with favouring that fuzzy form of the mantra, that any doubt during DM (that still sometimes arises) is washed away by favouring the mantra again

With continued practice it became easier for me to favour the mantra at whatever fine level of fuzziness, and the worries you mentioned became less and less.

Maybe this lesson helps to be more relaxed about your DM practice
https://www.aypsite.com/397.html

Edited by - TensorTympani on Oct 07 2023 2:55:13 PM
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Christi

United Kingdom
4332 Posts

Posted - Oct 07 2023 :  3:09:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Cato,

You have been given good advice already by Dogboy and Tensor.

Looking at your first bullet point above: Stillness and silence can be present in the mind with or without the mantra being present, and with or without the mantra being faint and fuzzy. In other words, inner silence is not dependent on any pre-existing, or existing, condition of the mantra.

Looking at your second bullet point: In the practice there is no deliberate effort made to make the mantra increasingly fuzzy. If it happens naturally, then it is fine to let it happen. And of course the forces that are at work making something happen beyond our conscious choices, are the unconscious ones. So, that is a natural part of the meditation process.

Looking at your third bullet point, the object of the meditation is not to stay on the mantra. The object is to come back to the mantra each time you notice you are off it. So, it does not matter if it is easy or difficult to stay with the mantra.

Looking at your fourth bullet point, the mantra can be an actual thought in the mind, with either clear, or fuzzy pronunciation, or it can become so subtle that it is a mere "impulse". It can exist at any of these levels and we can favour whatever it is in the moment with our attention whenever we notice we are off it.

Do remember, that if the mantra is faint and fuzzy in the mind, and then you realise you are off it, you can come back to it at any level that is comfortable for you, either with a clear pronunciation, or at the fuzzy level that it was at before you lost it. And because inner silence is not dependent on the level of fuzziness of the mantra, but is actually always already there, it does not matter which you choose.
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Cato

Germany
215 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2023 :  11:01:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi everybody,

thanks for your advices! Guess I got somewhat confused with fuzziness and tried to favor it, but there obviously is no need to do so.

It is such a simple technique but also easy to wander around while practicing.
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Dogboy

USA
2165 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2023 :  11:53:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
It is such a simple technique but also easy to wander around while practicing.


There is beauty in its simplicity, so hard to get wrong really, and wandering is just that, and default again to the mantra. I love the paradox of knowing you are on your seat, and so far far away simultaneously.
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