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 Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
 Yet another perspective on Surrender & Letting Go
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imtp

Germany
6 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2020 :  04:01:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hello Fellow AYPers,

Been practicing the techniques for 2 years now and have been lately stumbling upon many resources that I totally needed for where I am at right now. One of them is a very useful perspective on Surrendering and Letting go. I've mostly had a tough time letting things go as Yogani suggests, since the emotions behind the object (usually attachment or any of it's annoyingly sticky cousins) always clung on (rather, my mind was clinging on to them) pretty tight when I was "attempting" to "let it go into stillness". Anyway, I have noticed that, often realization/true understanding just dawns on you if the same subject is viewed from a slightly different perspective. Having said that, here's what I found mega helpful:

quote:
Letting go involves being aware of a feeling, letting it come up, staying with it, and letting it run its course without wanting to make it different or do anything about it. It means simply to let the feeling be there and to focus on letting out the energy behind it. The first step is to allow yourself to have the feeling without resisting it, venting it, fearing it, condemning it, or moralizing about it. It means to drop judgment and to see that it is just a feeling. The technique is to be with the feeling and surrender all efforts to modify it in any way. Let go of wanting to resist the feeling. It is resistance that keeps the feeling going. When you give up resisting or trying to modify the feeling, it will shift to the next feeling and be accompanied by a lighter sensation. A feeling that is not resisted will disappear as the energy behind it dissipates.

As you begin the process, you will notice that you have fear and guilt over having feelings; there will be resistance to feelings in general. To let feelings come up, it is easier to let go of the reaction to having the feelings in the first place. A fear of fear itself is a prime example of this. Let go of the fear or guilt that you have about the feeling first, and then get into the feeling itself.

When letting go, ignore all thoughts. Focus on the feeling itself, not on the thoughts. Thoughts are endless and self-reinforcing, and they only breed more thoughts. Thoughts are merely rationalizations of the mind to try and explain the presence of the feeling. The real reason for the feeling is the accumulated pressure behind the feeling that is forcing it to come up in the moment. The thoughts or external events are only an excuse made up by the mind. As we become more familiar with letting go, it will be noticed that all negative feelings are associated with our basic fear related to survival and that all feelings are merely survival programs that the mind believes are necessary. The letting go technique undoes the programs progressively. Through that process, the underlying motive behind the feelings becomes more and more apparent.


This perspective triggered so many understandings, and has by far been the most beautiful thing I have learnt this year. Just wanted to share this gem with you guys. This forum has helped me so much in my quest so far, so I wanted to come out of the "lurking mode" and start helping along others who might be stuck in similar ruts.

If this resonated strongly with you, I definitely recommend reading "Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender" by David Hawkins.

Cheers,
Prashanth

Edit: Goofed up the Quote inset somehow. :P

Edited by - imtp on Sep 04 2020 04:08:07 AM

Dogboy

USA
1759 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2020 :  09:47:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice. I like how the technique separates feelings and thoughts, for often they can be tangled together.
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firststep

USA
7 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2020 :  4:29:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
When you give up resisting or trying to modify the feeling, it will shift to the next feeling and be accompanied by a lighter sensation. A feeling that is not resisted will disappear as the energy behind it dissipates.


- I did not realize there are two things going on: the feeling itself and the energy behind it. It will make it easier to work on some of my negative feelings.
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interpaul

USA
155 Posts

Posted - Sep 04 2020 :  7:52:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Prashanth for this sharing and the book recommendation. I had read a book by David Hawwkins in the past and this one looks really interesting. In the same way you report stumbling on resources at the right moment I had an experience today in which the same message of surrender was so clearly experienced. Reading your posting confirmed this is an important life lesson.
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imtp

Germany
6 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2020 :  05:13:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi guys,

@Dogboy - That was the game changer for me; The understanding that emotions were the underlying cause of the thoughts. While reading the book, I suddenly realized how many months or even years worth of thoughts one single repressed emotion (guilt/regret from when I was 16) had caused. Many of those thoughts had definitely influenced my actions even earlier this year, 13 years later. Thatís crazy!

@firststep - Working on the emotions by ignoring the entanglement is suddenly giving rise to a lot of courage in me. I figure I could attribute that to the release of the energy in the form of repressed emotions. I feel very unburdened whenever I remember that I have this new tool in my toolbox in the face of rising emotions.
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imtp

Germany
6 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2020 :  05:17:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by interpaul

Thanks Prashanth for this sharing and the book recommendation. I had read a book by David Hawwkins in the past and this one looks really interesting. In the same way you report stumbling on resources at the right moment I had an experience today in which the same message of surrender was so clearly experienced. Reading your posting confirmed this is an important life lesson.



Hi Interpaul,

Glad to hear about your similar experience. A feeling of intense humbleness and awe arises in me when I get glimpses of the interconnectedness of reality. If you are looking deeper into surrendering, definitely read his book.

Something in me has been calling towards his works. Can you recommend any of his other works?
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k.cherry

USA
31 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2020 :  2:16:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing, Prashanth. I suppose the idea that thoughts are self-reinforcing and potentially misleading is the reason why so many great realizers make such a point of quieting the mind in order to find the authentic reality.

As far as the distinction between feelings and the energies behind them, I have found this to be quite useful in my own experience. For example, my personal emotional Achilles heel is anger. A major breakthrough in my understanding came when I realized that this anger is just the inappropriate manifestation of energy. This energy, honored and given the right outlets, could potentially manifest itself in an equally constructive way. An explosion can level a home, but it can be harnessed to generate electricity to provide light for it as well.

quote:
Originally posted by imtp
A feeling of intense humbleness and awe arises in me when I get glimpses of the interconnectedness of reality.


Reality is beautiful. I feel the same way.
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interpaul

USA
155 Posts

Posted - Sep 07 2020 :  12:34:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Imtp, I found the book "transcending the levels of consciousness-The stairway to enlightenment" on my bookshelf. I read it years ago. Looking at it now I realize it is a book that outlines the steps on the path to enlightenment. I'm not sure it would be as meaningful for me to read again now as it mostly catalogues the path. I have found the AYP practices the techniques to take the journey. Good luck on your path
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1255 Posts

Posted - Sep 10 2020 :  03:10:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear all,

Without wishing to be negative but I have found such techniques complicated and un-helpful. You get excited, give it a try for a few days and then give up. If you are not releasing into Inner Silence, you quickly get nowhere. Even when you are releasing in Inner Silence there are feelings which will not be un-done until they are un-done. In my experience I found it is not something you can "do". What you can do is be consistent with your meditation practice and eventually, you notice some stuff are no longer there.


We are all different - just sharing my experience.


Sey

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imtp

Germany
6 Posts

Posted - Sep 10 2020 :  04:52:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Sey,

I have been practicing Samyama for a bit over a year now and I never "got" what "releasing into Inner Silence" was supposed to be. Because I was trying to think and understand it, my mind developed hundreds of techniques and strategies; watching the sutras ripple into stillness, etc. While, the crazy strategies went away over time, this "technique" or rather perspective is when surrendering truly clicked in my head.

So here is my question to you: Is there really a difference between "letting an emotion come up in daily life and just being with it until it fades away" and "letting go into inner silence"?
Because, if one is genuinely letting it go, there is no intention to manipulate the emotion or "wish it away". Any "doing" in the process of "letting into silence" felt to me upon introspection (in daily life) like there might be a hidden mental agenda of escaping from the feeling. From this new perspective, it does feel like I am letting go of emotions. Can you clarify?

Regards
Prashanth
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k.cherry

USA
31 Posts

Posted - Sep 10 2020 :  10:56:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
fair enough, Sey. thank you.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1255 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2020 :  01:27:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by imtp

Hi Sey,

I have been practicing Samyama for a bit over a year now and I never "got" what "releasing into Inner Silence" was supposed to be. Because I was trying to think and understand it, my mind developed hundreds of techniques and strategies; watching the sutras ripple into stillness, etc. While, the crazy strategies went away over time, this "technique" or rather perspective is when surrendering truly clicked in my head.

So here is my question to you: Is there really a difference between "letting an emotion come up in daily life and just being with it until it fades away" and "letting go into inner silence"?
Because, if one is genuinely letting it go, there is no intention to manipulate the emotion or "wish it away". Any "doing" in the process of "letting into silence" felt to me upon introspection (in daily life) like there might be a hidden mental agenda of escaping from the feeling. From this new perspective, it does feel like I am letting go of emotions. Can you clarify?

Regards
Prashanth



Dear imtp,

It takes quite a while - for most, I would say many years - to get Samyama, especially as a means of automatic releasing in stillness in daily life. Inner silence must be sufficiently present and abiding. If you are still unclear what Inner Silence is, you are just not there yet but you will get there with consistent practice of DM.

As to your question - is there a difference? I would say - yes. A big difference. Being with an emotion until it fades away, does not mean the emotion is gone. It has faded now because thoughts have a natural way of moving to something else if not engaged in. It will come up again tomorrow or next year. Some come up daily, thoughts that haunt you. In a beginner's stage of samyama, you would witness the emotion and the thoughts and you would also be aware of inner silence and choose to move your "I" into that core stillness. That is letting go of the emotion. Choosing Inner Silence over the emotion.

In an advanced stage of samyama, that emotion will not even arise despite being in circumstances that would usually trigger it. That's when you know it is gone for good. Like say feelings of "not being worthy" or feelings of competitiveness or wanting to be always right.
Or the pain you have always felt when thinking of a particular someone's betrayal. You would think of the person but the pain would no longer be there.

Yogani has many beautiful lessons about all that but to comprehend the depth of the lessons takes a while. I have tried to formulate it from my experience and I hope have not added more confusion.

It can also be that I have never had the patience to stick to the kind of techniques you mentioned above and therefore I have failed to realise their benefits.



Sey

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imtp

Germany
6 Posts

Posted - Sep 11 2020 :  04:19:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:

It takes quite a while - for most, I would say many years - to get Samyama, especially as a means of automatic releasing in stillness in daily life. Inner silence must be sufficiently present and abiding. If you are still unclear what Inner Silence is, you are just not there yet but you will get there with consistent practice of DM.

As to your question - is there a difference? I would say - yes. A big difference. Being with an emotion until it fades away, does not mean the emotion is gone. It has faded now because thoughts have a natural way of moving to something else if not engaged in. It will come up again tomorrow or next year. Some come up daily, thoughts that haunt you. In a beginner's stage of samyama, you would witness the emotion and the thoughts and you would also be aware of inner silence and choose to move your "I" into that core stillness. That is letting go of the emotion. Choosing Inner Silence over the emotion.

In an advanced stage of samyama, that emotion will not even arise despite being in circumstances that would usually trigger it. That's when you know it is gone for good. Like say feelings of "not being worthy" or feelings of competitiveness or wanting to be always right.
Or the pain you have always felt when thinking of a particular someone's betrayal. You would think of the person but the pain would no longer be there.



Hi Sey,

Good stuff here! The thing about maintaining a daily practice is definitely key to any progress. I fully agree with you on that. In fact, mixing new witnessing techniques into the predefined DM practice might hinder the technique in most cases. I am at a stage where I have phases of no thought during the day (most often outside of practice). While there are no particular bliss sensations, I can notice a sense of very subtle calmness and can just relax into whatever I am doing without the commentator.

In contrast, there are times when there is a tornado of thoughts originating from specific emotions. These are always emotions that I have suppressed/repressed, escaped from and vented out in the past on many occasions. I find it nearly impossible sometimes to just let "it" go at that stage. I feel it is natural for the beginner to identify with these thought streams and flow along for hours on end. My mistake so far was to "try to let go" of the thoughts. Splitting the thoughts from the emotion was a key step in my experience.

Allowing the intense emotions to be present without any judgement, resistance, wanting it to be different/gone has been quite transformational for me in the past 10 days. While some emotions did recur, I notice many of them have reduced in intensity. It doesn't feel like they have just faded because my thoughts have moved on. When I summoned up the same thoughts both consciously and unconsciously, the feeling behind them are noticeably lighter now.

Perhaps, this new perspective is just a form of beginners Samyama (for daily life; not a replacement for practice), before the sense of identity loosens from intense emotions and rests with Inner Silence in the face of noise emotions. Perhaps it helps others; perhaps it doesn't. I feel I have gained some lightness from the process, so I am going to continue experimenting with it in daily life.

Cheers,
Prashanth
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1255 Posts

Posted - Sep 12 2020 :  12:34:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear imtp,

The fact that you can separate the thought from the emotions, I would say good things are happening. It is happening within the Witness aka Inner silence.

I am all for exploring our inner workings - so enjoy your practices.


Sey
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