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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 1:53:06 PM
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About a week ago I set the intention to have a lucid dream and do pranayama. I have done meditation in the OBE state and the results have been nothing short of profound, so I was curious to see what might happen if I did pranayama in a lucid dream.
The challenge is to first have the lucid dream, then be able to remember that I wanted to do pranayama.
In this dream I realized I was long jumping rather far and wanted to see just how far I could take it. I went back down a hill and started running but some kids got in front of me. I remember being a little agitated that I was having to run slower because they were in front of me and continually blocking the way. So, some karmic traces came up, in real life of course this would have been more of a source of amusement.
Finally I decide to jump at an angle to the way we were running in order to avoid having them in my path. I did manage to jump very far and then just as I was landing I summmoned my will and decided to just hover in the air. This worked and it clued me in to the fact that I was dreaming.
I flew up further into the air yet oddly wanted one further confirmation that I was dreaming. So I flew over to a car nearby and put my hand through the glass. Yes, 100% confirmation that I was dreaming.
Here I started to try to talk to the people nearby, I felt I had some spiritual message I wanted to communicate to them, yet they seemed largely oblivious of me despite the fact I was flying around above them.
Now there was a 3D reflection of myself in the air, matching my every move. It looked mostly like me in real life, except more translucent and with more of a bowl type haircut.
I thought about what I needed to do. I could feel that I did not have the strongest hold on this dream state to begin with so I was anxious to try to remember if I had any goals before I just did the default thing and flew off in search of random adventure.
Then it flashed on me, yes, I had said I would do pranayama.
I flew over to one of the cars and sat down cross legged to meditate. I was a little too anxious so did not remember to use Siddhasana. I then began to visualize my spine and it seemed as if the perspective shifted a bit to where I was seeing my spine more from behind my body. A strong silvery white light formed at my root and traveled up in a ball along my spine as I inhaled and then hit the base of my head and exploded into a larger ball of white light.
The stimulation of this was too great for me to contain in the already shaky dream state, and I woke up.
I wonder if I had more stability in this particular dream to begin with if I could have kept up pranayama for longer. I did forget to yell "Clarity now" or "Awareness now" upon realizing I was dreaming, which does often bring me more control in the dream state.
Yet I also think I just need deeper inner silence to be able to maintain these kind of energy surges without waking up.
Still, in the short time I have been doing spinal breathing, this was the strongest most energetic visualization of the spine. Scenery, but fun nonetheless.
And the Tibetan dream yogis say that if you do a practice in the dream it is "9 times as powerful" as if done in real life, so maybe that single breath did a lot of purifying. I certainly woke up feeling quite nice anyway :-) |
Edited by - AYPforum on Mar 23 2015 1:58:39 PM |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 1:58:39 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Dogboy
USA
2201 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 2:31:13 PM
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What fun! Like the part about the glowing shusumna.  |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 3:50:52 PM
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Thanks Dogboy :-)
I also noticed upon waking that my stomach was gurgling a fair bit even before I did my morning practice, so it sort of confirmed the usefulness of even that extremely short interlude of dream pranayama.
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 5:27:53 PM
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Interesting! And what practices do the dream yogis recommend during sleep? |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 7:18:54 PM
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Hi Willpower, there are many and some of them are actually quite archaic and involved so I don't concern myself with those personally.
But here is an example of more attainable, less archaic ones that are listed in the wikipedia entry on dream yoga:
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The primary aim and foundation of dream practice is to realize during a dream that one is dreaming. Once lucidity has been established the applications are limitless. One can then dream with lucidity and do all sorts of things, such as: practice sadhana; receive initiations, empowerments and transmissions; go to different places, planes and lokas, communicate with yidam; dialogue with sentient beings, creatures and people such as guru; fly; shapeshift, etc. It is also possible to do different yogic practices while dreaming (usually such yogic practices one does in waking state though the product and fruit of sadhana is greatly accelerated due to the learning, play and practice context). In this way the yogi can have a very strong experience and with this comes understanding of the dream-like nature of daily life. This is very relevant to diminishing attachments, because they are based on strong beliefs that life's perceptions and objects are real and, as a consequence, important. Dream yoga mastery not only assists in the complete realisation of shunyata, but also in the lila of Mahamaya. When one realises and embodies the Shunyata Doctrine of Buddha Shakyamuni and Nagarjuna amongst others forded by Dream Yoga and other advanced sadhana, complete realisation is imminent and elementary.[citation needed]
Namkhai Norbu gives advice, that the realization that the life is only a big dream can help us finally liberate ourselves from the chains of emotions, attachments, and ego and then we have the possibility of ultimately becoming enlightened.[14]
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So for me I consider my day time AYP sittings to be my core practice, but if I can get lucid or go OBE at night, I figure why not take advantage of that extra rocket boost we can get by doing spiritual practices in the dream state :-) |
Edited by - technoyogi on Mar 23 2015 10:20:09 PM |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 8:49:16 PM
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Hi Technoyogi,
your dreams are similiar to mine, always some jumping and flying involved Due to all the series and movies of my childhood, it is also natural for me to move things without touching them or sometimes doing an energy ball and sending it some direction :P
Coming to your pranayama, generally if you do pranayama you will wake up. The reason is, breathing in the astral plane is a different process than in the physical vehicle. There is no breathing at all (have you noticed?), it is a physical habit you try to introduce within the astral and this will be the cause for you to wake up back to the physical.
What is more stable than breathing is just moving the energy with intention, attention and visualization or feeling. But generally the moment the exprience gets some intensity your waking up will not be too far away. At least I was never succesfull to do any longer session, but due to the fast responseness you can easily go into samadhis of all kind.
You were already pretty close to going into samadhi via the spinal breath too (=
Among the different techniques which worked here:
Trataka, a classic preliminary practice within hatha yoga, where you fix your attention visually to one object. It can be any object in the astral world you see, like the sun, the moon, anything is fine, as long as it is not moving. Or focusing upon the spine or a chakra also works. If you focus onto yourself, it also works. It is important to keep focusing until the magic begins so to speak. The transition from concentration to meditation to samadhi is a matter of seconds within the astral.
Mantra repetition, may it be localized or unlocalized as with DM also is an interesting experience, epecially if done open eyed.
Going up and down your spine without physical breathing does also work very fine, but due to the physical habit of doing it with, it may be harder to do than a classic DM session or just looking at something unmovingly.
Where the astral experiences really intensify is when you lay down after a practice session and go into astral mode. It may take between 10-20 minutes after laying down. For me it is a 100% thing. Now when the practice session has some good intensity, it is easily possible that without anything you do the astral-happening wil go into some kind of samadhi.
I remember very vividly, 9 years ago where I was overdoing yoga back then without any guide, after some months I went into horizontal mode, but before going into astral dream mode, some kind of awareness happened and in that scene the whole body-mind was laying in the bed and the observer, which was an "I"-less-witness was moving within the spinal channel up and down by itself like in a roller coaster and at the same time experiencing most intense ecstasies of different flavours in the chakras. The energy was also flowing into the penis and touching its most blissfull tip and again returning into the spinal channel. The perspective was not looking from the head down but the "By itself"-observer was moving within these ecstasies within this body which itself appeared as godliness laying and bathing in ecstasy while the atoms where intensly humming OM. After some time the energies concentrated at some point within the spine and a "scene break" occured and I appeared back in astral mode. The content I do not remember; afterwards coming back to the physical body. Only after getting up this inbetween scene came back into my rememberence. It was a partial savikalpa samadhi, some part meditaton without a meditator. Only after years and much more experiences it was clear why it happened. The chakras within the spine need some momentum. The moment they surpass a specific intensity, when you go into astral mode you will naturally land in these states. But yeah, the after effects were never stable for me, mostly some dizziness and some kind of depressiveness happened, which is the reason I avoid lying down after practice for longer periods :P
Thanks, your experiments are very welcome, they bring some freshness into this forum! :)
Happy practice to all :) |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2015 : 10:17:13 PM
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Wow such next level experiences Holy, I am so happy you shared all of that with me!
For a while, it was my goal to try to leave my body during meditation or during the day in general. I got close once then shut it down for some reason.
In the last month or so since starting twice daily AYP practices, I decided to de-emphasize my connection to LDs and OBEs and just learn these new disciplines. Yet I have to admit that the experience you described after laying down, and the fact that you could do it 100% is some "scenery" that I would not mind having at all!
What you said about pranayama and the lack of real breath in the astral is true of course, and it is interesting that I did not consider that at all when I decided I wanted to do pranayama! I guess though that it may pertain to one of my reality checks that works often, plugging my nose and trying to breathe. Something happens that even though it is not real breath always clues me into the fact that I am in the dream state.
I have had the mantra of OM vibrate everything and myself out of existence, but I realized that was because I must have said it with eyes open as you suggested, whereas I think with this pranayama attempt I closed my eyes which might have led to the hastened collapse of the dream state, so I will try in the future to do the I AM mantra with eyes open. Are you saying it out loud or internally?
I like the suggestion for trataka, it is somewhat synchronistic. I had a tantric session with my wife recently, just us in a room looking at each other, where I saw I could briefly morph her into fractal polygonal divine beauty if I really really concentrated on her to the exclusion of all else. The rest of the room and surroundings seemed to turn into a wave and she was the somewhat stable object, very profound experience. So I resolved to learn some trataka techniques to hopefully achieve that repeatably and more stably in the future.
However, what i did not realize that my telekenisis in the OBE state had been a form of trataka, but it makes sense. I started by moving ping pong balls and socks (random) and later was moving clouds, a beach ball sized moon on a hill that I returned to the sky, and then an entire galaxy once. That last one put a spring in my step the next day haha :-)
I suppose I still need to learn to crawl before walking, but while I have your attention if you can elaborate on what things might facilitate going into astral mode repeatedly after practice (including maybe how much yoga you were doing then daily and what types of practice, and how much you had done up to that point in your life) I would be all ears as they say.
Very inspired and thankful for your insight on this Holy, thank you!!!  |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2015 : 1:56:50 PM
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Hi technoyogi,
regarding mantra repetition in the astral plane, am not into these things anymore, but you can try out both. With closed eyes the chance is high that you will become physically aware faster. It is not a practice anyway, just some enhanced insight about what your spiritual practice is actually doing in the subtle anatomy. Bringing this all into the arena of spiritual practices is not covered by most yogas as a seperate instruction from the one rooted in the physical. The reason is, all densities of body-mind will become more and more visible while you remain physically aware and the need for seperate practices will become visibly obsolete.
Trataka is really just looking at one thing unmovingly. Even if you do it in your physical body all perception will melt into milky white bliss, but in astral mode due to the ability to be much more easily and fully still, the whole process from concentration to samadhi is much shorter. Still it is just good for playing if your main practice is AYP. Trataka is part of the shatkarmas and a preparational practice to burn off lots of resistances in the body and mind. I must have used it back then in astral mode for the reason of used behaviours coming from the telekinsesis training which was a starting point here regarding all practices, but long before yoga. Unknowingly life was preparing me for the real deal of yogic treasures (=
In general, the ability to perceive and act in the astral plane is mainly dependent upon the amount and quality of life energy flowing within the nadis and chakras. To the degree of stimulation that has accured to your chakras and the nadis by moving prana through the system, to that degree you will have a vibrant astral travel. Practice over time will automatically transform the astral body to a degree that whenever you lay down after a normal sitting practice, you will land in astral mode. It is also possible to force this condition by overpracticing and then laying down, which was good back then for me to see and experience, but is not recommended at all as it only causes instability in the body-mind. Especially AYP-overload is not funny. Injuries from overpractice can become a serious problem for months and years, therefore it is better to stay in the healthy spectrum of digestable practice amounts.
For practical reasons, if you were successfull in LDs, OBEs etc. sofar, it may easily be possible today. Just lay down in corpse-position after a normal session for the resting-phase, keep the body warm enough to easily go into sleep mode and naturally awareness will switch back when the physical body starts to sleep. Just lay down with the intention to relax and the allowance for sleep-mode to happen, nothing else is needed. All the active tricks to come into astral mode mostly do not allow the physical body to go into sleep mode which is the first thing that needs to happen. When the astral anatomy is in good energetic swing, astral awareness will be a natural result after the physics sleep, therefore this is no big thing at all. All yogis will naturally land in astral mode earlier or later and pass through it aswell.
You are welcome technoyogi :)
Happy practice to all (= |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2015 : 7:31:32 PM
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Thank you yet again Holy for your guidance and sage words!
I was especially struck by the truth you expressed that eventually "all densities of body-mind will become more and more visible while you remain physically aware and the need for seperate practices will become visibly obsolete."
I have been fortunate through astral travel and some other means to glimpse these rarified states and not become attached for too long to seeking them for their own sake. It occured to me that there was much work to be done on myself back in the world, that there was something to strive for to be deserving in essence of such states. It took over a year, yet after some of these first encounters I found AYP and I believe it to be the "work" I intuitively knew back then must be done.
I am still trying to balance my bhakti with self pacing, yet for now I will forego the temptation to push too hard just to get another ticket to Astral scenery. Especially after reading your warning about AYP-overload. Every week or so on average something seems to happen naturally of an astral or lucid nature, so I will just learn from that while I can.
Listening to Autobiography of A Yogi last night, the thought struck me that I hoped to meet one of the great figures from that book. If I remember when the next astral event happens, I hope to ask to meet one of them. And failing that, then perhaps one day my practices will bring me that blessing directly now that the intent has been gently seeded.
Otherwise, for now, my focus is on maintaining this new habit of twice daily sits, and to fulfilling my duties in the world such as they are now...
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2015 : 5:34:55 PM
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Thanks technoyogi. As Lahiri Mahasaya said, it is unnecessary to look for the grace of the master, it will come when sadhana is performed.
Holy I agree, in the astral world when I remembered about breathing I went back. It's better not to get attached to the astral world though |
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technoyogi
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2015 : 6:49:02 PM
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You raise a good point Will Power.
And yet, Lahiri himself called for Babaji even after he had appeared to him spontaneously the first time. And that call was made not to satisfy his own bhakti and desire to learn from or see Babaji again, but rather to prove something to non-believers.
He was rebuked by Babaji for this and was told he would only come when Lahiri himself had a desire to see him, even though Babaji still did indulge the non believers and dematerialzed before them...
I still think of this idea as rather innocent and understand in advance that it would qualify as scenery and that it is not for getting attached to.
And sadhana will proceed in the meantime anyway as I said. Actually getting into a dream state and remembering to even make the request could take months to years or never for all I know. With luck or persistence, either way perhaps I will meet such a master, and if not I will still continue my sitting practices...
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2015 : 6:06:36 PM
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Hi technoyogi,
if you continue like this, meeting with all kinds of masters will be unavoidable 
Happy practice friend! |
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Did Pranayama in a Lucid Dream
