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Maya

India
21 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2013 :  04:45:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hello

I wonder if I could get advice on the following...

I have been doing AYP and DM for about 1 1/2, with 2 breaks (1 of 3 months and 1 now of 6 weeks).

What's happened is that I also practiced healing myself by watching my thoughts. It works fabulously and cures many things, like pain, colds, coughs, flu, toothache, etc... This is discussed by Frank Kinslow and he's got it from Advaita Vedanta, I believe, but he's trademarked it. (Not sure how you can TM a process like meditation). He calls is quantum entrainment.

Anyway, about 6 weeks ago, I started doing more of the QE for myself and found that I was going into a state of deep calm much more quickly than AYP and could often feel tingling in my arms, like I USED to in AYP - not now.

The problem with AYP is that when I used to do it in the mornings, I would just say the mantra over and over again (in my mind), but nothing happened. I felt no change. Nothing, not even like I'd rested.
I was doing it after 10 mins SB and had a 5 mins rest at the end.

Also, when I did AYP in the afternoons, I nearly always fell asleep, or felt deeply rested. It's almost like it only 'works' if I'm slightly tired, which doesn't seem right to me. Why does it depend on the time of the day as to how I feel at the end of it?

The other thing I used to do is use it as a means to fall asleep in the night, so if I woke up at 3am and couldn't sleep, I'd do AYP and then sleep as my rest period. I know it probably wasn't something I was supposed to do, but I just needed to sleep. After some months, that sleep issue went away and I was sleeping great for the last few months.

Now that I've stopped AYP, my sleep has deteriorated in the last week.

I also noticed my hormones MAY have improved due to AYP, as I no longer get acne, which is the first time EVER in my adult years. (I'm 43).

I would appreciate some advice; should I go back to AYP or pursue watching thoughts?

What are other people's experiences with watching thoughts? Also, what are the roots of it; is it Advaita Vedanta?

Many thanks

Maya x

SeySorciere

Seychelles
1188 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2013 :  05:07:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Maya,

It appears that you are looking for results of AYP during your sessions whilst Yogani clear says that results are to be seen during your daily life. During the sessions themselves you are to simply follow the procedure and have no expectations (not easy to be without expectation, I know). And yes, you are not supposed to use DM as a means to sleep - but if you are not experiencing overloading symptoms (feeling groggy or spacey or just tired the next day), I guess there's no harm in it.

I cannot comment on the practice of watching thoughts as anything I say will be hearsay. I'm sure others will chime in on that one.

Sey
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Maya

India
21 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2013 :  06:16:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
SeySociere

Thanks for your quick reply. Yes, I have certainly found improvements in my life, which could well be due to AYP; much happier, less anxiety, more accepting. I also practice mindful thinking during my waking hours; you know observing negative thinking when they arise, which I believe have given me much progress, loving myself more, being more present, etc... It's all been good, with very few setbacks.

It was the issue between practising AYP or watching thoughts. I don't have time (and don't want to) to do both. It's possible that the answers lie inside me already, but I can't find them! Why do hide?!

M x
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1188 Posts

Posted - Feb 14 2013 :  12:13:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Maya,

I would say if you are 'watching your thoughts' in a broad and general way i.e. if you find yourself having negative thoughts churning around over and over in your head and you make a conscious decision to let them ok. That is fine. I do that all the time. In fact, I believe it is the rise of the Witness that helps one spot such negativity and unhelpful habits. However, if you are going into analysis on every thought that crosses your mind - that sounds like a nightmare to me. Bound to give one headaches. Advanced practitioners are able to watch thoughts go by with equanimity but they have years of practice under the belt and are well established in the Self.

That said (and to answer your question), I would suggest that you do both. Cultivate the Witness (Inner Silence) with DM and do mindfulness in between during the day. Do you feel you have a good degree of inner silence already?

Read up on the lessons on Self-Enquiry. Yogani explains it all in there.

Enjoy your practices

Sey
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Maya

India
21 Posts

Posted - Feb 14 2013 :  3:41:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sey

Apologies for misspelling your name earlier; I couldn't go back and edit it.

To clarify; I meant should I do the "watching thoughts" meditation (as suggested by Frank Kinslow)or AYP practices? As for watching my thoughts (being aware of them) during the day, yes I do that sometimes when they're negative, if I remember to do it. I've found a great improvement in my feelings, which I believe is due to the practice of watching them, to often say that I love myself and to appreciate rather than condemn. It's all helped, I think. (And the dedicated meditation).

Thanks for your suggestion on lessons on Self-Enquiry. I'll look it up.

I think that inner silence is slowly creeping up - I've never felt so good in all my life, even though I might have some "issues" to deal with.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

M x
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NJL

31 Posts

Posted - Feb 14 2013 :  6:59:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Maya

Sey

Apologies for misspelling your name earlier; I couldn't go back and edit it.

To clarify; I meant should I do the "watching thoughts" meditation (as suggested by Frank Kinslow)or AYP practices? As for watching my thoughts (being aware of them) during the day, yes I do that sometimes when they're negative, if I remember to do it. I've found a great improvement in my feelings, which I believe is due to the practice of watching them, to often say that I love myself and to appreciate rather than condemn. It's all helped, I think. (And the dedicated meditation).

Thanks for your suggestion on lessons on Self-Enquiry. I'll look it up.

I think that inner silence is slowly creeping up - I've never felt so good in all my life, even though I might have some "issues" to deal with.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

M x



Maya, one must be able to get into witness mode in order to watch one's thoughts. Witness is all about a higher perspective and observing oneself is if one were an outside observer. In order to be able to get into witness mode you need to have some inner silence. I hope this helps.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1188 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2013 :  12:16:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Maya,

I'm afraid I am not conversant with the Frank Kinslow method of 'watching thoughts'. Does it involve releasing /letting go of those thoughts at some stage? Or do you go into 'Who is thinking those thoughts' routine?

As you know in DM, if you are aware of thoughts, you go back to mantra. This is also teaches you to let go /release unhelpful thoughts. In samyama, AYP teaches you to release certain words (sutras)into Inner silence. This is also useful in helping you to release unhelpful thoughts into Inner Silence. The key element here is to release into Inner Silence; so the Inner Silence must be present and that can only be cultivated with DM (or some other form of meditation)

No worries about not getting my name right. Sorciere is french for Witch



Sey
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Maya

India
21 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2013 :  08:35:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
NJL

Thanks for your feedback. I don't know if I'm at a point of having some inner silence. (Honestly, I think so). As I said before, I'm more upbeat, less perturbed by others, a bit more patient, a bit more loving, having much less frustration in life, much less anger. Surely, these are correct signs to inner silence?

I get it that one must have some inner silence to watch oneself. I only try it (as per Kinslow's method of watching one's thoughts) and have had quicker feelings into that calm, peaceful nothing. I think I've had it when, after my meditation, I come out feeling like I don't know where I've been. It happens with both "watching" (as I know it)and DM.

Can you tell me, have you felt it? If so, what does it feel like to you and your experience with it?

Sey, with the watching thoughts meditation, you do just that. So, whatever you're thinking (try not to be so active, like what shall I make for dinner today?). Instead, just allow thoughts to come easily. Then watch your thoughts. The idea is that you don't get involved, try to be passive. Don't get caught up in it. I've found within 5 - 10 mins, I often get into that deep, calm nothing feeling. When I've used it for pain relief, I state the intention and then allow my thoughts to go up (in a cloud, say), which I believe is the same as watching one's thoughts and as you described about releasing them. It's just great as a healer. Try it! Hardly anyone does, but I've found it effective many, many times.

I really appreciate both of your replies and will come back to them from time to time.

That's not to say I don't need more feedback from you; I'm happy to hear more.

M x
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Goodway

USA
99 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2013 :  08:46:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
When you please your Self, then you will have more change from within.
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Holy

796 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2013 :  2:39:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Holy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Maya,

DM and watching thoughts are completely different practices. DM uses active intention the whole session, while being consiously the witness of thoughts needs some intention first but will change its character way faster to a passive state where watching thoughts continues to happen by itself.

Had some months of experience of watching thoughts as a part of the Maitreya Ishwara meditation technique, where one starts to be aware of the body energy and later on adds more to the "being aware of list". You can also start with watching thoughts and later add other elements of perception. No matter where you start, ultimately "being witness to" leads to silence of everything.

Watching thoughts here resulted in

1. the end of gross thinking which is mainly the voice in the head, the bubbling main voice =P

2. with the end of the gross voice, subtle thoughts, voices, imprints of the past of all kinds become visible and then by watching get silent aswell.

3. When the second more refined backround thoughts get still aswell, just by being a consious witness of them, even more refined thoughts come up and are witnessed. In this level of refinement they are already joyful or blissfull to some extend, as more and more space opens up for the silent bliss to pour through. This is were the healing also happens.

4. Even those extatic more joyous and blissfull thoughts (mostly not thoughts anymore but already dreams, visions, music, combinations of these, insights and so on...) get silent after being exhausted by constantly being watched.... with that you may experience or fall into pure bliss consiousness for some seconds and come back to 3. or even 2. just after some more watching to fall back into 4. etc...

5. After more and more causes of thoughts/mind dissolve in the process of watching in this way, the duration of resting in pure silent bliss increases into minutes and from minutes to realization of the blissfull continuity..

-> the problem here with this (otherwise nr.1 technique) was, that the nomind-bliss phases extended and continued the whole day after some months of 4. and 5. And together with this, there was no breathing aswell, digestion also went down the road etc. Functioning in the world was replaced with 24/7 bliss-paradise... Any will power to think was gone completely and with that to wish, to do, all was gone.. the body just lay there and thats all... =P

Ok, there was no "self-pacing" applied, so you can't judge the tecnique/system by one attempt. It was more successful than any other method/technique to dwell loooong and longer and 24/7 in the ever present bliss, but on the other hand nothing else to do in maya worked ^^ I remember someone I met half a year ago who is established in this, telling me that I was impatient back then and that the body-mind would have adapted. But it already took so many months and it just looked like this will deepen some more years, forget any possiblity of adaption :D

Yeah, regarding this, a meditation technique like DM is dosable. 5 minutes more or less make a huge difference. Watching the thoughts needed 1-2 hours for good results (ok the results were superb), but on the other hand watching them for 20 minutes did not do much. There we are back at efficiency and smoothness of practice results and integratability within your lifestyle.

For all kind of jobs were you need to think actively or need to use the thinking mind for e.g. calculations, problem solving or whatever, then to my experience "watching the thought-stream" is the end of that mind-function =P Any other kind of practice which does bring the mind into silence without a passive continuous watching of it, will not be problematic in this regard if practiced in easy amounts.

Other than that, if your profession and lifestyle is not dependent on thinking and "watching the thoughts" work for you, why not. There are some who were ultimately successfull with it, like Maitreya Ishwara.

As you say, AYP gave you good results aswell, so the options are at your hand. When it comes to full spectrum transformation, including a strong physical body, AYP has its advantages. If your aim is fast entry into paradise, "remaining the witness" and "being passivlely aware of thoughts (and later everything)" did it here back then.

Happy practicing :)
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Goodway

USA
99 Posts

Posted - Feb 19 2013 :  6:05:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes we think we have to suffer to grow. Maybe the truth is that we need to have pleasure, instead? If you want to know the witness, look at the scene in front of you. You are that scene. Where you meet the scene in front of you is you.


Edited by - Goodway on Feb 19 2013 6:25:23 PM
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lmaher22

USA
217 Posts

Posted - Feb 21 2013 :  2:48:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Good stuff, but if we're watching our thoughts, who's watching the watcher? very very strange, Mr. Yang.
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Goodway

USA
99 Posts

Posted - Feb 21 2013 :  4:32:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by lmaher22

Good stuff, but if we're watching our thoughts, who's watching the watcher? very very strange, Mr. Yang.



Does it matter?
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Maya

India
21 Posts

Posted - Mar 04 2013 :  3:28:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Holy

Thanks so much for entering all your advice and experience. It's taken me sometime to reply, as I need to get my head around all you've written. I'm still at it...

M x
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