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 Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
 Question about Alcohol
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warlock

USA
15 Posts

Posted - Feb 06 2012 :  04:20:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
I have been practicing DM for about 6 weeks now. I have noticed the peace that has entered my daily life already. I drink beer probably one day a week. I usually drink 2-3 beers and get a light buzz. I usually drink socially or at a nice dinner with my wife.

My question, will the occasional drinking slow my spiritual progress? I want to continue to unfold spiritually, but, I don't want to get so legalistic where I develop a bunch of "rules" for myself to follow.

I had some bad experiences with codified behavior with the religion I was brought up in. They taught me that I was "unworthy" if I drank alcohol. This in turn made me feel that I wasn't worthy for God. So I admit that I do have a slight rebellious streak in me that doesn't like codified behaviors.

maheswari

Lebanon
2455 Posts

Posted - Feb 06 2012 :  04:28:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
hi warlock...social drinking is not a big deal
check this lesson: http://www.aypsite.org/29.html
just practice and listen to the intuition coming from your inner silence and you will know exactly what to do

Edited by - maheswari on Feb 06 2012 04:29:55 AM
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jeff

USA
971 Posts

Posted - Feb 06 2012 :  08:48:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Warlock,

There is nothing wrong with drinking, but it will make a difference in your ability to "feel" the energy. The alcohol in your system seems to make it harder to sense. But, cutting down drinking seems to be a natural part of the process. I used to have a glass of wine (or two) with dinner, no I find I have to force myself to drink a half glass when in social situations...

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LittleTurtle

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Feb 06 2012 :  6:25:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I still have alcohol when I feel like it. If my arthritis is flaring, or if I just want to taste with a nice meal, I usually have a glass (actually half a glass) of red wine. I went through a situational funk a while back and started drinking tequila shots frequently. Had to really focus on my sadhana and problems to stop doing that and now I have no desire to ever see another shot of tequila. I think beer or wine in moderation is OK.
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  03:02:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I enjoy a nice glass of red wine with dinner and I don't think there is anything "unspiritual" about that. Jesus turned water into wine. However, I have noticed since my reality changed back in May of last year, if I drink more than 1 glass of wine it puts a serious dent in my "natural high"! Whereas alcohol used to give me a buzz, now it ruins my buzz. Warlock, I also oppose the "legalism" that you mentioned and I think it can be more detrimental than a glass or wine or a beer on the spiritual path.
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  10:01:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Warlock,
Welcome to the AYP forums.

An occasional drink wont slow down your spiritual progress by much... but obsessing over it may...

After a certain amount of purification happens, and inner silence begins to come naturally in meditation, you may go through a phase where you may find the meditation sessions the next day may be a bit surfacey. Then, after a while you may have access to a lot of inner silence and even though the effects of alcohol is there, you may be able to go past it and hence it not affect your meditation much.

So it is individual.


Like Yogani says in the lesson Maheswari quoted above:
quote:

The rising experience of pure bliss consciousness will change your attitude about alcohol. Give regular practice of meditation a fair chance, and the things that are not good for you will tend to drop off naturally over time.

There are no rules just the rise of pure bliss consciousness, our true nature. All we have to do is meditate twice a day, and listen to what our inner silence is telling us. We will know what to do.
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shades

Sweden
35 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  11:48:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I do agree. Being obsessed is more of a curse. You could come obsessed with not being obsessed. The mind is acctually more obsessive than the acctuall obsession What i do personally is sort of letting it happen if it gets to strong of a pull. But then you also have to reason. You can't do anything you want. There are limits otherwise you might end up in situations you might not prefer. A kind of common sense i guess

Edited by - shades on Feb 07 2012 12:10:24 PM
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  12:55:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Also there are different attitudes about alcohol and what it can be used for, depending on your consciousness. There is the (lower) attitude of wanting something outside myself to "take me away from all of this", and dull my consciousness; in other words, get "drunk".
Then there is the (higher) attitude of knowing that a small dose of some connoisseur beverage combined with intense activity of some kind can be really fun. My drinking friend used to say "You want to be like a little bee, just a small buzz, constantly moving here and there." We discovered that this only works well if you are active and drinking water too, but I don't know if that is true for everyone.
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mr_anderson

USA
734 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  1:57:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit mr_anderson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I think relax and go with the flow is the best advice here, with respect to drinking.

I used to get annoyed that drinking would drain out my natural high, and so I started being really strict about not drinking. I eventually got fed up with that, as I was becoming a major bore in social situations, and never wanting to go out. I'd gotten addicted to trying to feel a natural high the whole time, and it wasn't really compatible with my lifestyle out in the world.

Finally I started drinking again and I find it works much better for me to be relaxed about things, than self-disciplined to the point of being anally retentive. There's pretty deep inner silence even when intoxicated or hungover.

It's always a personal thing though, go with your intuition.
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shades

Sweden
35 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  4:22:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
How can you go with intuition and be personal? Hmm.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  4:25:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Intuition IS personal. My inner guru never gives me advice about other people.
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shades

Sweden
35 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  5:13:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I get it, there is no split between intuition and person.

Edited by - shades on Feb 07 2012 5:38:35 PM
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  5:52:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I wouldn't put it that way. I think maybe I see what you are saying, that "person" is ego/illusion and intuition is universal/divine.

But what I am saying is your intuition is for you only, nobody else in my opinion.
Of course, holy scriptures and books have divine instructions that were given to one person, to be broadcasted to many, but I have never experienced that, and so I don't know if that really happens.

What I HAVE seen a lot of, is individuals getting a divine connection, and then ego taking over trying to own it. This leads to the receiver thinking he is special, and enjoying people gathering around and putting him on a pedestal.
Followers of many famous gurus claim great benefits from being in their presence, so maybe they ARE special, but I believe finding a personal connection is much more true than something or someone outside yourself.
I know this brings up the question of whether your inner guru is outside yourself or not, but that's another subject.
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shades

Sweden
35 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  6:21:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree...it is rather personal.
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  6:29:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know. Words break down talking about this subject. Many people write that there is no "person". It is impossible to talk about, because words belong only to this world where there is a "person".
All I know is what I experience, and that is: meditation causes inner silence, and silence causes you to receive information.
I don't have any idea what that means, except it is divine, good for me, and correct information from something that is much greater than me.
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shades

Sweden
35 Posts

Posted - Feb 07 2012 :  7:43:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
What i see is that "you" respond to people in a mirror way. You say that information comes from silence and I understand, but another way to put it is that respons becomes more and more in cordination with what happens, and less out of inner body reactions.
Also person or no person dosen't really matter, not if there is silence in the person. The more silence the less things for the so called person to be caught in.
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Bodhi Tree

2972 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2012 :  12:52:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Bodhi Tree's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by warlock

I have been practicing DM for about 6 weeks now. I have noticed the peace that has entered my daily life already. I drink beer probably one day a week. I usually drink 2-3 beers and get a light buzz. I usually drink socially or at a nice dinner with my wife.


quote:
Originally posted by Radharani

However, I have noticed since my reality changed back in May of last year, if I drink more than 1 glass of wine it puts a serious dent in my "natural high"! Whereas alcohol used to give me a buzz, now it ruins my buzz.


Just to echo the comments of Radharani...when I first had a surge of kundalini energy, it far dwarfed any buzz or euphoria I had gotten from alcohol. Now the addiction has shifted--from chemically-induced consciousness to divine-filled ecstasy!
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mr_anderson

USA
734 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2012 :  4:17:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit mr_anderson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
RE: intuition etc

Let's not get trapped in semantics and trying to define meanings.

It's a personal thing, because only you intuitively know what is right for you.

Each person is different and has a different path to tread. What is right for one person, may not be right for the next.

Each may use his intuition to find their own truth.

This is not in conflict with the idea that we are all part of the oneness / there is only one. Not by any means. We live in a world of dualities and paradox, and we have to be able to accept the particular paradox that the illusory duality derives from the real, non-dual reality and that both exist side by side, in a sense.
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warlock

USA
15 Posts

Posted - Feb 09 2012 :  9:13:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the advice everyone. I am starting to enjoy the rising inner silence more than any chemical can provide. I am just going to let things unfold naturally. If I feel an urge to quit alcohol altogether, then I will.
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matangi

USA
53 Posts

Posted - Feb 14 2012 :  10:02:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit matangi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate the open question having wondered myself about the place of alcohol in my life. I used to drink in my early 20's and reached a point where I didn't want my feel goods to come from outside of myself but instead from within myself.

Except for maybe 1 or 2 occasions I did not touch alcohol for 20 years or so. Did not miss the hangovers for sure!

I did find it interesting if on a rare occasion I had a yen for a drink. I decided that meant I was seeking to avoid something.

Two or three years ago I experienced several traumatic events and I had a glass of wine...and another most nights. I don't regret it. It may have saved me my sanity and ability to get through another day. No, I was not meditating consistently during this time.

I am finding myself through the other side and even though I still have wine sometimes, I am waking up at night and spinal breathing and meditating. I have had the experience of feeling such joy and love at times that when I have a glass of wine it is as if I am placing a blurred lens over the joy I feel. Truly a joy kill!!

And yet, I am very grateful to have had the wine when I did....and I am happy to feel it passing away....

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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2012 :  02:46:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Matangi, I love good wine myself - but only the fairly expensive kind, unfortunately. And yes, it can be medicinal! But, I can really relate to what you said about "placing a blurred lens over the joy I feel." Like I said, it kind of puts a dent in my buzz. The silence/clarity is still there underneath but the energy is definitely dampened... However, this has not stopped me from having a glass of wine with dinner or when going out to karaoke. In fact, I find that I NEED alcohol at karaoke in order to endure all the country music which is inevitably sung here where I live...
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2012 :  06:19:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Radharani

In fact, I find that I NEED alcohol at karaoke in order to endure all the country music which is inevitably sung here where I live...


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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2012 :  08:21:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it tends to make everything all soft and fuzzy.
I wonder is it just me, or does physical action take away the dullness of alcohol? I used to play volleyball with friends while drinking, and more recently dancing, and noticed that physicality changes everything. If i just sit still it makes me feel awful.

@Radharani: good wine doesn't have to be expensive. Wine doesn't agree with me, but I have heard wine lovers saying that sometimes small wineries produce as good as the well known ones, and have cheaper prices. I think you have to read reviews by local connoisseurs to find them.
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Radharani

USA
843 Posts

Posted - Feb 16 2012 :  02:20:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Radharani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish

Yes, it tends to make everything all soft and fuzzy.
I wonder is it just me, or does physical action take away the dullness of alcohol? I used to play volleyball with friends while drinking, and more recently dancing, and noticed that physicality changes everything. If i just sit still it makes me feel awful.

@Radharani: good wine doesn't have to be expensive. Wine doesn't agree with me, but I have heard wine lovers saying that sometimes small wineries produce as good as the well known ones, and have cheaper prices. I think you have to read reviews by local connoisseurs to find them.



Dancing while on alcohol will make me more alert and less lethargic, but still my essential "high" is somewhat diminished.

In my extensive experience as a wine connoisseur I have found that the smaller wineries DO sometimes produce better wines, but they are almost always more expensive. Of course that was when I lived in California, which has abundant wine. Now that I live in Podunk Florida it's not even an issue. Here you can only get the major brands, and a limited selection of those. I have often read reviews by people recommending the cheaper ones and tried them, only to respond, "BLECH!!!" and use them for cooking...
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Feb 16 2012 :  08:16:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Good that you are a connoisseur yourself. That's a way you can get wine for free, but I suppose Florida is not wine country, and it doesn't help when away from home like karaoke night.
My grandfather used to grow his own grapes in oregon and make his own wine. Delicious, but he was Japanese, so he liked to ruin it by putting sugar in it. We had to get it before that point.
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maheswari

Lebanon
2455 Posts

Posted - Feb 16 2012 :  1:33:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
We had to get it before that point.

loll...i can imagine you running in order to get it before that point

Edited by - maheswari on Feb 16 2012 1:34:43 PM
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