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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 27 2014 : 09:33:08 AM
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Hi all,
I've been asking myself this question about the meaning of the "Inner sensuality" sutra. This is partly also induced by my attempt to translate it into my native language. However, this one remains among the sutras I still do in English, because I couldn't find a satisfying translation.
For a long tim, I thought "Inner sensuality" pertains to the senses or the development of the ability to sense things inside or receive information from the inside (as if through the senses). Now I'm not so sure about this anymore, given my experiences during samyama. Checking the Oxford dictionary, I read there this:
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sensuality
noun [ mass noun ]
the enjoyment, expression, or pursuit of physical, especially sexual, pleasure: he ate the grapes with surprising sensuality.
• the condition of being pleasing or fulfilling to the senses: life can dazzle with its sensuality, its colour.
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So this is about the senses, but clearly in the sense of sexuality, pleasure, enjoyment, fulfilment.
So, the question is:
Does this sutra aim at the development of 1) inward perception, or 2) the ecstatic and orgasmic inner lovemaking? |
Edited by - mimirom on Aug 27 2014 09:34:40 AM |
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Ayiram
88 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2014 : 10:16:49 AM
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Hi mimirom,
well, you can´t have the number 2) if you don´t have the number 1)  so, it´s both...
quote:
Now I'm not so sure about this anymore, given my experiences during samyama.
What do you mean by this?
There´s no what should it be like. There´s only what it is for YOU. Just let it evolve...
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2014 : 11:18:54 AM
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Comes a time when its realised that the sutra isn't for 'you' in the accepted sense. Its closer to a prayer but one which is selfless. That's possibly one of the reasons Yogani advises its only added after becoming stable/ developed in DM/SB.
Its best not to dwell on any exact meaning or interpretation of the sutra because any perceived understanding is incidental to the practice-just as the mantra is repeated without emphasis or meaning.
There is a 'sense' behind the apparent word form which shouldn't be confused with the material understanding. So its only necessary to touch on that sense of words very briefly before letting it go into silence.
Sometimes we can become too absorbed with self development of the 'I' and not realising the intention is better released into the infinite. Instead of perhaps thinking of it like a wish list, its better to think of yourself in service to something greater. Like putting a stitch into cloth for some infinite work where you are adding effort. No need to look for reward or attainment when those impostors are not required. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2014 : 4:23:28 PM
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I think Ayiram and karl make great points. 
Incidentally, all five senses (sight, sound, smell, touch, taste) operate in the inner dimensions. Therefore, "inner sensuality" is a kind of sensitivity that becomes more aware of the interior landscape. By becoming more illuminated from within, we also become more sensitive to the external phenomena. It's a win-win situation.
For me, this doesn't always equate to supernatural, multi-dimensional experiences. It can be just as simple as becoming more aware of emotions or thoughts in relation to very mundane things. Once the ego is given the proper attention on a basic level of survival/socialization/stability, then the more transcendental possibilities come into play. Trying to jump too fast into the more refined states can cause a lot of trouble. First things first. Easy does it. Self-pacing. |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2014 : 04:57:41 AM
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Thank you all for the interesting points you make.
So Bodhitree says the sutra is meant to promote pratyahara, the others say other things are more important in samyama. Well, the latter are certainly also valuable and valid points, but really, is it for pratyahara or for ecstasy?
Ayiram: I started to experience some intensifying bodily pleasure during cosmic samyama, so that brought me to the question about the possible erotic dimension of the sensuality sutra, or samyama itself. |
Edited by - mimirom on Aug 31 2014 08:00:37 AM |
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Ayiram
88 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2014 : 07:51:45 AM
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Hi mimirom,
do you see how things are evolving: you started with one sense of the sutra and now cosmic samyama is helping you expand that initial sense...and it will keep evolving and evolving...
if you´re worried about intending "a wrong" sense of the sutra - don´t be - there´s no such thing. just send what´s in you and let the Infinite teach you and lead you.
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2014 : 08:09:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayiram
Hi mimirom,
do you see how things are evolving: you started with one sense of the sutra and now cosmic samyama is helping you expand that initial sense...and it will keep evolving and evolving...
if you´re worried about intending "a wrong" sense of the sutra - don´t be - there´s no such thing. just send what´s in you and let the Infinite teach you and lead you.
No no, it's not that I am worried about my samyama practice - it went well for many years and there are no worries. I am also not trying to think about the sutras during practice. It just that when you translate the sutras into another language, for yourself, or maybe also in writen form, for other fellows etc., you want to have the basic form of the sutras right. We have 9 sutras, each for something specific. There has to be a simple, straightforward answer to this.
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Edited by - mimirom on Aug 31 2014 08:43:49 AM |
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Ayiram
88 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2014 : 08:46:14 AM
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| Translate it directly. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2014 : 1:47:48 PM
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Pratyahara = Ecstasy...does it not? Inversion of the senses leads to more ecstasy. We're looking at a win-win scenario here. As the inner world is enriched, so is the outer world. The lines get blurred. As Yogani says, the world doesn't disappear; it's just that its veils become more transparent and illuminated. As you become enlightened, you enlighten the world around you. Refinement of the senses.  |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2014 : 5:29:24 PM
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Hi,
I'm enjoying this thread.
As I have come to understand the teaching, Pratyahara, introversion of the senses, is the intended result of SBP, Mudras and Bandhas and DM. When Samyama is done in sequence, it is done in a state of pratyahara. "Inner sensuality" the English phrase Yogani uses to express "pratyahara" as a samyama sutra, is similar to "inner sensation", "inner sensitivity", or "inner senses" but Yogani has chosen it perhaps because of its connotation of pleasure.
Many of us notice that going inward results in pleasure. We are weaning ourselves of outer pleasures, and finding the source of pleasure within. Refining our capacity for pleasure. This facilitates freedom from addictions, and it feels so good! Of course, the pleasure levels out over time, but it seems to me that it is ok to enjoy the spikes of pleasure while they last.
PS I found this Wikipedia article informative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyahara |
Edited by - bewell on Aug 31 2014 5:32:07 PM |
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Dogboy
USA
2198 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2014 : 8:00:08 PM
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quote:
Many of us notice that going inward results in pleasure. We are weaning ourselves of outer pleasures, and finding the source of pleasure within. Refining our capacity for pleasure. This facilitates freedom from addictions, and it feels so good! Of course, the pleasure levels out over time, but it seems to me that it is ok to enjoy the spikes of pleasure while they last.
Ahh, Nirvana! But is it the pleasure levels out over time, or our body adjusts, or both actually? Great link, by the way, I bookmarked it. |
Edited by - Dogboy on Aug 31 2014 9:07:47 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2014 : 12:43:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
But is it the pleasure levels out over time, or our body adjusts, or both actually?
It is a mystery--the wisdom of the body in relation to transformative practices!
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2014 : 5:07:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
Hi,
I'm enjoying this thread.
As I have come to understand the teaching, Pratyahara, introversion of the senses, is the intended result of SBP, Mudras and Bandhas and DM. When Samyama is done in sequence, it is done in a state of pratyahara. "Inner sensuality" the English phrase Yogani uses to express "pratyahara" as a samyama sutra, is similar to "inner sensation", "inner sensitivity", or "inner senses" but Yogani has chosen it perhaps because of its connotation of pleasure.
Many of us notice that going inward results in pleasure. We are weaning ourselves of outer pleasures, and finding the source of pleasure within. Refining our capacity for pleasure. This facilitates freedom from addictions, and it feels so good! Of course, the pleasure levels out over time, but it seems to me that it is ok to enjoy the spikes of pleasure while they last.
PS I found this Wikipedia article informative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyahara
Thank you bewel, this makes sense to me. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2014 : 08:50:10 AM
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Does the wind know the sound it makes, does water know its name ?
The guru is in you means that the sutra meanings and there use are those we have individually decided upon. Asking ourselves more deeply about their use age won't reveal anything new. We already know why we use them because we proposed using them.
There is a concretion of naming things the belies the fluidity of intent. Concrete is dimensional and limited, fluidity is infinite. |
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"Inner Sensuality" sutra question
