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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
 Posted - May 10 2011 : 2:13:08 PM
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| namaste,today ive been thinking about the said the guru is in you,its something absolutely true however how many of us can comunicate with our own guru?i mean getting through the barriers of our psychosomatic mind complexes inner secrets phobias paroia schizophrenic mind etc.our mind is a compendiun of past genes from ancestors is working out of traumas from childhood is concionated by plannets,social pressures family atachements etc,to reach our pure inner guru it takes sometimes too much and usually we think we connect with it but what we do is to acomodate our desires and excuses to acomplish what ever is in our mind.the REAL GURU is someone who can see through you he knows you in and out is the one who can tell you what you need what is good for you he can save you from lots of pains and hurdles he or she is the light of the right path he can reveal you a mantra that can destroy all the castles of despair of your life and soon you can see a new horizon he or she can turn up the light of your consciousnes in a speedy way he can comunicate with you in a dream he is your best father caue he cares for you rightly,isnt it wonderful?when you meet such experience and such person you revere him or her as a living GOD and in away it certainly is the biggest exposition of god of your whole life thats way in every thing there is a master and in something so mystic and hiden like the tusk of searching for the self realization(the truth) is extremely important to connect with a REAL GURU.om namah sivaya |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2011 : 3:26:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by omarkaya
namaste,today ive been thinking about the said the guru is in you,its something absolutely true however how many of us can comunicate with our own guru?i mean getting through the barriers of our psychosomatic mind complexes inner secrets phobias paroia schizophrenic mind etc.our mind is a compendiun of past genes from ancestors is working out of traumas from childhood is concionated by plannets,social pressures family atachements etc,to reach our pure inner guru it takes sometimes too much and usually we think we connect with it but what we do is to acomodate our desires and excuses to acomplish what ever is in our mind.the REAL GURU is someone who can see through you he knows you in and out is the one who can tell you what you need what is good for you he can save you from lots of pains and hurdles he or she is the light of the right path he can reveal you a mantra that can destroy all the castles of despair of your life and soon you can see a new horizon he or she can turn up the light of your consciousnes in a speedy way he can comunicate with you in a dream he is your best father caue he cares for you rightly,isnt it wonderful?when you meet such experience and such person you revere him or her as a living GOD and in away it certainly is the biggest exposition of god of your whole life thats way in every thing there is a master and in something so mystic and hiden like the tusk of searching for the self realization(the truth) is extremely important to connect with a REAL GURU.om namah sivaya
This is an important question, key to the entire practice of AYP.
So, this one I'll leave to Yogani, or one of the better retreat
trainers.
However the larger issue of knowing when something is inspiration
in any area of life, not just practice, is worthy of a treatment
in another section. I'll wait until later, to give the approprate
person time to respond.
I recommend that you study the AYP lessons, found to the left
of the forum messages, starting with the first lesson, if you
haven't yet. They are an easy and marvelous read. I say this, even
though I came from another tradition. Recognizing genius in "others"
is always an appropriate response.
Welcome Friend,
Kevin Cann |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2011 : 5:01:51 PM
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Hi Omarkaya:
It should be mentioned that AYP is not anti-guru. Whatever people long for deep in their heart is what they will find. Or, more accurately, it will find them.
So even the finding of an external guru is an internal process. It is in us all along.
This lesson elaborates on the relationship between inner and outer guru: http://www.aypsite.org/57.html
The guru is in you. 
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2011 : 6:24:52 PM
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| If a personal humble opinion is allowed, I would like to give one. And that is,just like fire is in the wood or stones; or just like butter is in the milk, but to get them, we need to apply a particular technique to obtain them. In the same way, God, Guru,etc is also in each one of us. Ishtas, gods or gurus are just levels of higher consciousness. Just like plants, insects, birds, mammals or humans, all of them have consciousness in them, but then what is the difference between them; well, different levels of consciousness would be the answer; it would be like going downwards or upwards on a ladder. Mostly from all,something that I can percieve here, is that, whatsoever even the best experiences narrated here,it is sometheing really good, wisfull and desirable, to even start with, but in the end is nothing but experiences of the higher mind, or purer mind. And here are included, beings apart from our human brothers and sisters, beings like gods, ishtas, places like swarg, baikunth or heaven, though these words may seem fantastic or unimaginable, but they do exist, and the reality of them, is that, they are all under the limits of higher mind, whose limit is up to the (huge)causal region or plane, which covers all of the gross or material plane and all of the astral plane. Just as we have teachers of KG, school, university or doctorates... in the same way, we have gurus, of different graduation or reach, or levels of consciousness... not all are same, though guru is a word used very commonly, without one being aware of the reach of it`s meanings. |
Edited by - harsharan000 on Jul 05 2011 6:31:08 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2011 : 09:23:29 AM
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something inside us pushes us to search for the Truth
then we find the external Guru...he guides us and helps in removing the blur obstructing our vision
then we discover our inner Guru...it was already there!
it is one of the many paradoxes in spiritual quest |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2011 : 10:20:00 AM
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| That is true,and it has to be so, because our true nature is a spiritual one... as some Mahapurush has said: we are spiritual beings going through human experience... so naturally as all gross worlds and bodies are transient and perishable up to the causal realms,and so if we are a ray and He is the Sun, naturally all rays have to merge back in the Sun, sooner or later. It is clearly stated in most dharmas, that the human body is the living temple of God, so if He is to be found ever at any place, it has to be inside us. All matter is non consciouss, and it is childish to try to find Him (superconsciousness) in perishable objects or nature forces. This is a beautiful topic, but it has to be practical and sound, with logic or comon sense... but then each and everyone is a sruggling soul trying it´s best as nature has supplied each one of us in the adequate envoirements and conditions, it is up to us how to move, when to move, or in which direction to move, that is His greatness, without forcing anything on anybody. As it is said in the bani: denda deh, lenda thak pae, which means : the bountifull Giver gives in abundance until the receiver is tired of getting, and asks for nothing else, except for the Giver Himself, this the secret of real happiness and bliss. |
Edited by - harsharan000 on Jul 09 2011 5:18:11 PM |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2012 : 7:58:00 PM
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THE GURU IS IN YOU....so easily said...but how much truth is there in this... so lightly used sentence?
If the Guru referred, is the Primal Lord...it is o.k, otherwise, it is just a slogan.
As it is said: Aad Gureh nameh, Jugad Gureh nameh, Satgureh nameh; which means, I bow to the primal Lord, I bow to the same present Lord, and I bow to the present Satguru, who made me meet my beloved Lord.
But in spite of having that Lord within us, we are unhappy...we are distressed...we are misearble.
Why?
Because, we have gone astray in this creation. Our soul consciousness is the same in essence as Him, but this our soul is caught and overpowered now by the mind and the senses...and covered by three layers: causal body, astral, physical body...and if that was not enough...also tightly chained by the karmas one performs. And to sum up: Maya overshadows the whole creation.
So, generally, this is the disgraced present state of each and every soul. And until this process is not reversed, we can never ever find everlasting peace and happiness.
If the so called Guru was in us, naturally, this would have never ever occurred to our souls. So please, let us not confuse ourselves, neither to others.
Guru is a level of consciousness, is a really free being, is a Master of all situations at all times, not a prisoner like us.
We maybe potentially gurus, one day...but not currently.
Otherwise, why all this calamity, chaos around? While in the company of a true Guru, one is at peace through the vibrations emanating from Him, one is filled with love and grace. So let us sincerely ask ourselves, has this happened ever to me?
The wide range of answers will be no! So let us not be carried away with slogans.
Now, let us ask ourselves, what is really inside us? The answer will be:the Lord which is hidden(because He is beyond the reach of mind, He is transcendental), then also, our mind and our soul are there...nothing more...nothing less.
Ans as said before, our soul is a prisoner in this alien land, of the mind.. and the mind is a slave of the senses...and these senses are the slaves of the sensual pleasures of all types. So there is no such "guru" inside us, at least for the moment.
So until all this process is not reversed, we can never be truly free nor happy. Until the drop of our soul merges back into the ocean of bliss, the Father, the Lord.
So we come to the conclusion, that the the only so called "guru" inside us for the moment, is our blind mind, who is making us dance to its tunes, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad...but anyhow keeping us confined in this creation, with all its products, that we can see around us....every single thing is due to this mind.
Even the so called "gods" or the avatars, are just creations of the Universal Mind, who have been coming from time to time to keep the creation going on by not allowing the souls even in dreams to know about its origin. Because that Universal Mind, though powerful, needs the souls to keep running his creation, and that he does not want any single soul to escape from his clutches. So as said before, from time to time he comes as avatars in the world, with new religions, with new prophets...to establish order up to an extent... to punish the evil doers and reward the meek in heart... all this done for the only purpose of keeping the souls confined in this creation.
As commonly believed and as many have also stated, that Gurus come to save all of us....that is not true...and it can never be true.
Now let us argue this logically. If this creation has to continue, naturally not all will believe in the words of these true Gurus when they come... because if it was that easy, this creation would definitely get to an end, by getting unpopulated eventually, as all souls will be liberated from the chains of karmas, from the cycle of births and deaths, from it´s master, the mind...and once the soul is freed from all these oppressors, it will shoot up with the speed of a bullet, and merge in its origin, the Father, the Lord, the Supreme Being, who is an infinite fountain of truth,wisdom and bliss.
But, if the soul as said before, is imprisoned... naturally it can not free itself by itself...needs some help from someone to be freed and move forward...and this someone is a true Guru; who is sent by Him, to liberate certain souls, or let us say the marked souls...that is why Jesus says in the Bible, I have come to to collect the marked sheep by my Father.
Now, how will these sheep or marked souls come to the Shepard, the Guru?
At other place, He says: my sheep shall recognize my whistle. Means, only those will be attracted to come and believe in Him, who are meant for Him, while He is contemporary with us, in His physical form.
Once He finishes off His job of kindling the lamp or truth in the interior of those souls...He goes away...until at other time, the father sends another Guru(that we can not demand, it is all His utmost grace and mercy).
Now that Guru can be born in another country, class or religion, it does not matter much, but the thing is, the teachings will be the same.
Now the thing is, for example, when Jesus came, what did He do, for His marked sheep? He baptized them with the water of His holy Name or Word. Now here, this mentioned baptism is not with the water as said namely, but initiated with the Name or Word of God, which is mentioned in the Bible, when it says:in the beginning was the Word, this Word was with God, and this Word was God. In Islam this very Word is known as KUN, chinese call it TAO, in Sikhism is known as Shabad or Nam. It is the same thing...different Saints and Gurus at different times, in different languages, have given different words to express themselves, but in the end, is the same thing.
In Sikhism, the Guru has said:
Shabade Dhartee, Shabade Akash, Shabade Shabad Hoa Parkash, Nanak, Sagli shrishti Shabade Ke paache, Shabade Shaba ghat aachay; which means: This Shabad has created the Earth, the Sky, and from this Shabad came out the Light; Nanak, all the creation is a projection of this Shabad, not only that, bur pervades in each being.
So we can read different teachings of the real Gurus, all mention the same truths.
Now coming back to the question of having the Guru inside us...
That happens only, when we come in the company of a real Guru, outside He is with us on the physical level, and inside He is with us at all times, in the astral realm with His astral form, in the causal real with His still causal form, and from there on, until we reach the Father´s house with His light form.
Now many shall say, I do not need any Guru, I can do everything by myself...well, yes everything, but not to merge in the Father.
That is why He says: I and the Father are one, he who hath seen Me, has seen the Father....means any other thing small or big, easy or difficult can be attained in more or less time...but not Him.
Why? Because inside us is only darkness, only ignorance(spiritual). But when we are initiated(baptized) by Him with the holy water(the Name of God), He comes and establishes Himself inside ourselves, that is why, then He says to His marked sheep: I am the light, I am the way...that means, then we shall never be alone...with His spiritual light, He shall guide us and protect us inside. This is the real work of a true Guru. Not that He displays powers, miracles, or satisfies our desires. His only job is to kindle our consciousness with the flame of love for the Father in us, and make us clean and immaculate, to be worthy of the Father.
Now, if we are that much fortunate, to come across such a Guru, and be blessed by Him, with the Word, the Logos, the Shabad or Nam, then only can we truly say: the Guru is inside me, and once having Him inside, we can love him, we can talk to Him, we can listen to Him, just as we do on this worldly plane...but this is intellectually said, in reality, when we see Him inside as well as outside, we are so pulled and fascinated by His beauty, that we only feel like loving Him, no need to talk, words are useless there.
Yoga, through the branch course of meditation, according to the instructions by a perfect Master or Guru only, can lead us to the tree of spirituality in its full development.
May God bless us all!
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 05:43:28 AM
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| You have misunderstood the meaning of " the Guru is in you ". It allows for an external Guru if one is required. As long as one has the intention of discovering the truth, then the internal Guru will point the way. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 10:23:13 AM
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The first person to become a guru to another probably had no guru of their own and yet they still managed to guide themselves to a position recognized and then validated by others. So they must have relied on their own inner guru which was by definition a product of their interaction with the natural world in the most basic forms it is perceived. Of course even this proposition isn't sound and still relies on a number of assumptions that I cannot even begin to verify.
What is more clear to me and harder to deny, however, is that the natural world, not excluding the physical body, is a great teacher itself. Some describe ecstatic conductivity to be an innate intelligence just by their observations alone without allusion to scripture or various philosophical systems. Accomplishments and discoveries cannot be denied the effort of trial and error as well as sustained collaboration among participants. Intuition, if I could loosely qualify it as a factor of ripeness in general, certainly does not fail to speak and offer guidance. Even so, ripeness begins and remains in the experience of the natural world. Trying to short-circuit or by-pass that invites dependency by falsely absolving one's own efforts and associated failures, leading nowhere but to low sense of self-efficacy and artificially-induced period of stagnation. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 10:44:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
Otherwise, why all this calamity, chaos around?
Your generalising. You see calamity and chaos while others do not. While you are your own witness to this chaos, remember that to repair a house takes time and effort, there will be dirt, noise, destruction and disturbance.
See the work as part of the repair and not separate to it and the chaos becomes a necessity, just as a tree needs to break through rock and soil before it reaches sunlight. The tree and it's struggles are one. Without struggle there is no tree, without the tree there is no struggle. |
Edited by - karl on Feb 12 2012 10:47:00 AM |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 11:13:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
Otherwise, why all this calamity, chaos around?
Your generalising. You see calamity and chaos while others do not. While you are your own witness to this chaos, remember that to repair a house takes time and effort, there will be dirt, noise, destruction and disturbance.
See the work as part of the repair and not separate to it and the chaos becomes a necessity, just as a tree needs to break through rock and soil before it reaches sunlight. The tree and it's struggles are one. Without struggle there is no tree, without the tree there is no struggle.
What I meant was, if we had really that inner Guru in us, as Guru is synonymous to wisdom and perfection...all this chaos and calamity had never occurred, because He would had been there to guide us...but instead with all the best intentions we listened to our higher mind...and mind can be a guru, a teacher, up to an extent...but it can never take place of a real Guru..like Christ, or Kabir, or Guru Nanak(these were spiritual masters)...because if we had someone like them to guide us inside, definitely, we were not talking all these matters here today....worst come worst, even the so called "guru is in you"...needs to come into contact with the above mentioned like spiritual Masters.
We can conclude, that inner guru must be imperfect...because otherwise why did he not stopped us while making mistakes, and with his knowledge make us take right decisions....so even he needs to make contact with that real spiritual Guru... |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 11:13:15 AM
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quote:
See the work as part of the repair and not separate to it and the chaos becomes a necessity, just as a tree needs to break through rock and soil before it reaches sunlight.
very nice metaphor...2 days ago i had an electricity technician to fix electricity problem in the heaters...as he was working i was watching the dirt and mess and saying to myself well this mess is very good cause it is needed to keep my apartment a beautiful ,warm place....from "chaos" and "destruction" beauty is created... |
Edited by - maheswari on Feb 12 2012 11:15:59 AM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 11:27:14 AM
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| it is like Lord Siva...destroying to re create |
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 11:34:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
We can conclude, that inner guru must be imperfect...because otherwise why did he not stopped us while making mistakes
Just curious before we conclude, do you mean a perfect guru would have it ready for the follower as soon as they arrive and there will be no longing, no craving, no occasional tripping, and no need to face the karmas we have accumulated? |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 11:41:04 AM
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But even Siva is misled by the Universal Mind....he is doing the job alloted to him, without even knowing of the Supreme Being...
Anyhow, it is said Brahma is the creator, Vishnu the preserver, and Shiva the destroyer...the we have goddesses...we have so much variety of gods....while the real Saints and Spiritual teachers say God is one...it is not that Vishnu, Shiva, Ganesha or the other gods do not exist...it is only that the term God or Father is much beyond their even acknowledgement...
If ever a chance, just read Anurag Sagar of Kabir Sahib...available on the net, it is a beautiful and a very well exposition of each being in this creation...we come to know the value and place of every spiritual beings and divinities... |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 11:47:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Swan
quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
We can conclude, that inner guru must be imperfect...because otherwise why did he not stopped us while making mistakes
Just curious before we conclude, do you mean a perfect guru would have it ready for the follower as soon as they arrive and there will be no longing, no craving, no occasional tripping, and no need to face the karmas we have accumulated?
We are not saying, karmas shall not be paid off...we are saying, there would be a drastic change in our attitude, in our view to the creation, changes like: forbearance, forgiveness, tolerance, meekness, shall take place in, us replacing our bad vices, and at the same time directions shall be followed faithfully, to not to incur in new karma, and at the same time burn the store karma..which is the reason for our unending cycle of births and deaths... |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 11:49:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
Otherwise, why all this calamity, chaos around?
Your generalising. You see calamity and chaos while others do not. While you are your own witness to this chaos, remember that to repair a house takes time and effort, there will be dirt, noise, destruction and disturbance.
See the work as part of the repair and not separate to it and the chaos becomes a necessity, just as a tree needs to break through rock and soil before it reaches sunlight. The tree and it's struggles are one. Without struggle there is no tree, without the tree there is no struggle.
What I meant was, if we had really that inner Guru in us, as Guru is synonymous to wisdom and perfection...all this chaos and calamity had never occurred, because He would had been there to guide us...but instead with all the best intentions we listened to our higher mind...and mind can be a guru, a teacher, up to an extent...but it can never take place of a real Guru..like Christ, or Kabir, or Guru Nanak(these were spiritual masters)...because if we had someone like them to guide us inside, definitely, we were not talking all these matters here today....worst come worst, even the so called "guru is in you"...needs to come into contact with the above mentioned like spiritual Masters.
We can conclude, that inner guru must be imperfect...because otherwise why did he not stopped us while making mistakes, and with his knowledge make us take right decisions....so even he needs to make contact with that real spiritual Guru...
It does guide, it is our minds that behave like wandering dogs. We are born of free will, it is our nature which we must come to know. The student does not always hear what the master has said, the inner voice is quiet and still, but it's wrath at the students actions to disobey is anything but
Only the intention is needed, the instruction will follow. It is not a mistake, or error, it was always meant to be like this, because it is. We follow a route by choice otherwise we would be robots and not humans.
Jesus said that the way is hard and narrow, it is easier for a camel than for a rich man ( take rich man as meaning rich in Ego not wealth). |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 12:06:09 PM
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| The thing is, in spite of having that guru inside us, we are weak, we are slaves of our minds, as you have very well said, so we have to change ourselves slowly and slowly, with patience and hard work(meditation) in order to be attentive to that our inner guru, that is what meditation all about....to be more receptive to that inner guru... |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 12:09:59 PM
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| in the absolute there is no inner nor outer...it is inside out |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 12:18:42 PM
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| Yes, you are right, in the absolute, it is everywhere. It is we humans say inside or outside, because of the coverings upon us, like the physical, astral or causal bodies....so because of that when our attention is on the physical level, we say outside, and when it is directed to higher levels, we say inside... |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 12:43:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
The thing is, in spite of having that guru inside us, we are weak, we are slaves of our minds, as you have very well said, so we have to change ourselves slowly and slowly, with patience and hard work(meditation) in order to be attentive to that our inner guru, that is what meditation all about....to be more receptive to that inner guru...
No need to change, only to know what is, it can be known by many paths of which meditation is but one. Give up on changing anything.
Meditation provides relative stillness of mind, when enough stillness is present it spills over into everyday life. The inner Guru is always there, even when the mind is busy, we do not need to hear the inner voice as a voice, it needs no sound to get the message across and it has limitless time in which to do so. |
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harsharan000
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 1:03:03 PM
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So now, no need to change...before it was said, sometimes we need to be robbed, in order to know we should not stop...how smart is the mind....it is absolutely cunning.
Jokes apart, I think things are unnecessarily going off track...leading nowhere...each and everybody has his/her way of thinking...may God bless us all. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 1:17:36 PM
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Hi,
I have a personal guru who is a siddha but I still agree with an 'inner guru' as inner guidance.The inner guru becomes more evident as we progress in my experience. One does require guidance on the path of meditation which is where this site or an 'outer guru/teacher' as there can be many pitfalls.
L&L
Dave |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2012 : 4:50:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by harsharan000
So now, no need to change...before it was said, sometimes we need to be robbed, in order to know we should not stop...how smart is the mind....it is absolutely cunning.
Jokes apart, I think things are unnecessarily going off track...leading nowhere...each and everybody has his/her way of thinking...may God bless us all.
Which is why I said there was no absolute answer. Your conclusion is sound. Everyone has their own way, which is exactly how it is. Many paths. |
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the guru
