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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 31 2011 : 1:58:36 PM
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| The inner and outer gurus, world united is the illusory body of brahma. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2011 : 5:11:46 PM
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Hi John,
quote:
Secondly, as far as flying off in an emanation body, be careful you don't just fly the coop by accident. Your wife would be upset for one thing.
No worries there... I'm not married, never have been.  |
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John C
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - Apr 11 2011 : 7:57:53 PM
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Hey Christi,
So you have developed the capacity to leave the physical body. What are your travels like? Does this happen during sleep? During meditation? How long are you gone? Can you go to physical places, or visit people? Can we meet there sometime?
J |
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John C
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 06:48:54 AM
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Hi Christi,
I was serious in my above questions. I believe anything is possible for the yogi, because our only limitation can be a disbelief in our imaginations, in our potentials, collectively. The faculty of imagination opens many doors to us, and is of great use in our spiritual practices, just like in the practice of magic. Just like in any creative endevour. Otherwise there would have been no J.S. Bach nor A. Einstein. Furthermore, we are more connected by a tangible unity than separate, non metaphorically speaking, literally.
J |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 07:23:42 AM
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While it is true that your beliefs can limit your progress, it is not true that your beliefs create your enlightenment. That is where creative endeavors differ from practical yoga techniques.
If someone absolutely believes that committing more murders will make them more enlightened, will it work for them? Not very likely, because enlightenment is a process built into our bodies, not something created out of our imagination.
Of course that example is absurd, but I am using it to illustrate a point that is harder to see with other examples. And that point is that certain practices will lead most people toward enlightenment, and other practices usually won't, no matter how vivid your imagination is.
Let's not assume that the negative power of disbelief also has as much positive power.
An analogy would be a person who had been driving with their parking brake on, releasing it and then thinking that brake release handle increases the power of the engine tremendously! |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 6:56:07 PM
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| The body is built out of imagination. Eyes touch each others forms. The mind enjoys it. Then bodies touch each other. The mind enjoys it. Then a body is made. The mind arising from this body resembles the parents imaginings in many ways. If the body-mind arises from an error in imagination, then perhaps relying on that error is also an error. "Enlightenment is a process built into our bodies" is a belief no? The contours of action are honed from the images behind our words. Seeing how these images and boundaries shape our mandalas and our actions and our speech is a very useful way to wake up from the illusory body. What do we hold to be true? That is the illusory body. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 9:32:25 PM
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Beliefs are functions of the mind. We need to step outside of the mind with deep meditation and find inner silence and the witness before inquiring into the mind. Otherwise it is mind games that create only more words.
Words don't enlighten people; practices do. |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2011 : 10:10:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Words don't enlighten people; practices do.
How did you learn the practices? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2011 : 01:23:00 AM
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| The nature of existence is to enlighten. There are no discrete contours of black and white. Modern people love having a good workable methodology, a scientific method. That is the mandala of modernity. Once the Self is your mandala. Everything happens by itself. In this very moment that changeless awareness seems to permeate every perception. This is not just words. It's something to see during practices. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2011 : 07:41:16 AM
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Everything happens by itself if you wait many lifetimes. The reason people investigate yoga is they want to take actions that cause a difference in this lifetime. Of course many people are willing to wait lifetimes for everything to happen by itself, and there is nothing wrong with that approach. Those are the people who are not interested in yoga.
What I meant by "words don't enlighten people" is this:
Yogani has given us very simple practices that lead to enlightenment. And also he has written much about advanced methods. But you can read his writings everyday for the rest of your life and not become enlightened, even if your imagination is extremely creative.
That is because the practices he has given us are represented in words. Words are a method of imagining.
A good part of enlightenment is learning to stop imagining because words lead us away from reality.
Deep meditation is a practice that does just that; it shuts down the words of the imagining mind. This is the kind of practice that leads to enlightenment, but only if you do it consistently, twice a day, for a long time. Other practices that lead in the same direction are much more difficult, and not any more effective.
For instance, try imagining being a yoga master without using words. It's pretty difficult. After working on this for some time, you will realize that the only way to do that is increase your bhakti. You could practice this twice a day if you wish. What you will find is words will begin to creep into your practices. That's where deep meditation comes in. It's a method of stopping those words from creeping in. |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2011 : 3:55:27 PM
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| The right words timely spoken by the master to the receptive person yield enormous benefit. Sheaths of coverings that would have taken lifetimes while practicing yoga can be removed in an instant. Of course, a person must become receptive. Practices can make this happen. This grand awakening ritual of living and dying is truly grand. It assumes so many forms. Maya is a great spectacle. Thoughts, dreams and events of the past so difficult to remember, the inevitable future so easily ignored, the present too impossible to comprehend. Then, this awareness here literally permeates everything I see, hear, feel, taste, touch, do and think. It naturally distinguishes between everything instantly and perfectly, without itself changing or doing anything. The Protector, the Pacifier, the All-Knower, the Self. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2011 : 6:27:51 PM
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| I agree, practices can make this happen. and it's much easier for some people who have done past life practices. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2011 : 3:45:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by John C
Hey Christi,
So you have developed the capacity to leave the physical body. What are your travels like? Does this happen during sleep? During meditation? How long are you gone? Can you go to physical places, or visit people? Can we meet there sometime?
J
Hi John,
I can't leave the physical body at will, but it happens sometimes. I have never experienced it during sleep, or during meditation. I cannot go to other physical places or meet other earth bound beings, I can only visit heaven and meet the angels and ascended masters.
Christi |
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John C
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2011 : 10:07:48 PM
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hi Christi,
So what are you doing at the time that this has happened. I would assume one would need to be in deep samadhi for that to happen, but if not during meditation, then when? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2011 : 7:56:05 PM
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Hi John,
There is a kind of samadhi called sahaja samadhi, or spontaneous samadhi. It can happen at any time, but at first it usually only happens when you are relaxed. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2011 : 06:07:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
I cannot go to other physical places or meet other earth bound beings, I can only visit heaven and meet the angels and ascended masters.
An angel once descended from above while I was meditating. The most beautiful being I ever saw. He was smiling and landed in front of me.
Then I heard a voice "angels and demons, heaven and hell, worlds upon worlds are created by Maya. Its a prison of dreams, of hopes and wishes, a beautiful trap that prevents you to wake up and see your true form."
As soon as I heard it the angel turned into a dark terrifying beast and vanished.
I had no such visions again.
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John C
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2011 : 06:45:15 AM
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Hi Christi,
I am aware of Sahaja Samadhi, but am interested to know if you are laying down when this happens. And if you remember the details of your foray into this other dimension. For myself, I practice yoga nidra, and during a survey of the energetic system utilizing bija mantras that exist at each chakric center, discover a dissolution of dual consciousness into the nondual, and in that state there is no separation nor any conceptual thought, and wise beings are within awareness often times, or the scenery indicates presence at some distant location, often in my locality, but I rarely recall the substance of the teachings that are given by these beings. This is not dreaming nor sleep, I am sure, due to the lucidity of these phenomena. That is the reason I have been pursuing more specific information from you, though your answers seem somehow vague.
J |
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nodoubt
India
90 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2011 : 11:39:38 AM
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| Sahaja samadhi is the realization that everything is maya. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2011 : 4:11:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by John C
Hi Christi,
I am aware of Sahaja Samadhi, but am interested to know if you are laying down when this happens. And if you remember the details of your foray into this other dimension. For myself, I practice yoga nidra, and during a survey of the energetic system utilizing bija mantras that exist at each chakric center, discover a dissolution of dual consciousness into the nondual, and in that state there is no separation nor any conceptual thought, and wise beings are within awareness often times, or the scenery indicates presence at some distant location, often in my locality, but I rarely recall the substance of the teachings that are given by these beings. This is not dreaming nor sleep, I am sure, due to the lucidity of these phenomena. That is the reason I have been pursuing more specific information from you, though your answers seem somehow vague.
J
Hi John,
Yes, I am always lying down when this happens. I always remember every detail of what I see, hear and feel when in the illusory body and in the presence of higher beings.
If I seem vague, it is only because I don't want to delve too far into a subject that can be a distraction on the path. It is beautiful scenery, but it is not the goal of yoga. The goal of yoga is liberation, which lies beyond the angels, archangels and ascended masters, beyond the illusory body and beyond all the different planes of being.
Don't get distracted by all of these things. They are like toys in the kindergarden compared to the taste of true liberation.
Christi |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2011 : 10:16:44 PM
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Linking oneself to one of the higher planes and then achieving liberation there in the next life can also be a valid path.
Wish you would give us more indepth descriptions of your experiences because it is quite rare and very inspirational. |
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John C
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2011 : 10:24:24 PM
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Hi Christi,
Yes, of course, not to get caught up in distractions. My interest is to discuss with you, my peer yogi, what is happening and so we can make some generalizations about these phenomena, that's all. Not meaning to imply any teleological significance to this. It's just that we are the same, and if the same phenomena occur to us both, that is some verification of a common sort.
J |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2011 : 1:35:16 PM
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Hi John and all,
quote:
Yes, of course, not to get caught up in distractions. My interest is to discuss with you, my peer yogi, what is happening and so we can make some generalizations about these phenomena, that's all. Not meaning to imply any teleological significance to this. It's just that we are the same, and if the same phenomena occur to us both, that is some verification of a common sort.
Yes, I believe it is useful to know about these things, and to share knowledge about them. Firstly, as Chiron mentioned, it is inspirational, and secondly, it means that when we begin to experience them, it does not come as such a shock. But beyond that, it can be a danger, because these aspects of practice can (and often do) become sought after in themselves, and then spiritual practice becomes about seeking experiences, rather than about waking up from the process of seeking experiences.
So it is enough to know that these things exist and are possible and at some point become part of the spiritual life, and that they should not be sought after or dwelt upon.
As for attaining rebirth on a higher plane and then attaining liberation from there, the general wisdom is that even the angels have to take a human birth if they wish to become enlightened. Whether that is true or not, I have no idea.
Christi |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2011 : 05:07:03 AM
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quote:
As for attaining rebirth on a higher plane and then attaining liberation from there, the general wisdom is that even the angels have to take a human birth if they wish to become enlightened. Whether that is true or not, I have no idea.
Christi
Have come across information which contradicts that common belief, in that its more likely for souls to jump only a few levels each birth instead of melting into nirvana straight from the human realm.
The higher and the subtler the plain, the more advanced the beings which populate it, with fewer limits, greater inherent perception and stronger energy level. So it makes sense that it would be easier for them to do spiritual practice and evolve into yet subtler planes.. until there is nothing left to evolve :)
This is not from experience, so don't know either, just prana for thought :) |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2011 : 05:10:37 AM
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| So.. next time you come across an angel or ascended master.. ask them what they think about this hehehe |
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The illusory body in Tibetan Buddhism
