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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
 Posted - May 07 2010 : 5:20:10 PM
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Hi Christi, i really appreciate your responses 
I understand your point, and it makes a lot of sense.
Unfortunately, i'm one of those people that needs to know whats going on "under the hood"... hehehehe!
I don't think i'll be buying the wilder novel, though i have seen it mentioned several times.
I see better now what AYP is and what it can do for me and what it can't. I am grateful for being introduced to some of the techniques like samyama and spinal breathing, i have incorporated them into my practice. And although i was looking more for robust discussion about where i can go from here, how i could break through this invisible ceiling, i have found that AYP has no answers for that 
I think when i first found AYP i was over-excited about it because i was seeing other people with legitimate and authentic "enlightenment" experiences for the first time... plus i was in the middle of the meanest k crisis i can imagine, so i was looking for some stability and some community support. Which i did find! 
In the end, I commend Yogani and all the contributors here for providing such an amazing resource, and i will continue to be grateful for the information that i have learned from AYP |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2010 : 5:46:46 PM
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Hi Tonightsthenight,
quote:
I think when i first found AYP i was over-excited about it because i was seeing other people with legitimate and authentic "enlightenment" experiences for the first time... plus i was in the middle of the meanest k crisis i can imagine, so i was looking for some stability and some community support. Which i did find!
Great.
quote:
And although i was looking more for robust discussion about where i can go from here, how i could break through this invisible ceiling, i have found that AYP has no answers for that
There isn't really an invisible ceiling that you need to break through. That's an illusion. There is just a continual letting go into the moment and a waking up to what is real. This is the divine abiding when samadhi becomes part of our active engagement in the world. It is called sahaja samadhi, or natural samadhi. It is a continuous melting in love with what is.
All the answers are there if you choose to look for them.
quote:
Hi Christi, i really appreciate your responses
You're welcome. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 04:17:06 AM
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Christi, thanks again, it is really cool of you to provide me with such wonderful discussion :)
My deal isn't about describing samadhi, or the levels of it. Its really just that hey, before i wrote this post, i didn't know if other people felt things like this or not! When yogani talks about "ecstatic bliss" or whatever, what does that mean? Nothing, until you give it a definition. So really, I was just wondering if other people feels this type of thing or not... it sounds like they do :)
In the end, it doesn't matter what i feel. I don't care, this condition, "enlightenment" has brought nothing but suffering. Its a shame, my "bhakti" is so strong. I have given everything to this process, and it does not care for me one bit. You guys all have these codewords, like "abiding" and "moving" and more, but i do not understand these things. They are nonsense. What do they mean? And what good is full on 24/7 samadhi? All it means is that you have a smile on your face while you suffer... that's how i've experienced it. And that gets old.... really old!  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 08:29:14 AM
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It's not about smiling while suffering. No need to understand the meaning of the words. Some people like a lot of words, others like me don't like words.
Just meditate twice a day and don't expect quick results. Seek the profound peace that meditation brings, and as that peace permeates your whole life there will be no rush for attaining enlightenment.
Make sure you are following mantra meditation and other practices as prescribed in the lessons and books. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 09 2010 08:33:51 AM |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 09:15:20 AM
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Hi TNTN,
Sorry I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, so please don't take my response as just "here read this lesson"....but here, read this lesson
www.aypsite.com/321.html which discusses suffering.
Essentially, our suffering come from our identification with the experiences that we have, the stories that we build up around the physical or mental pain that we are experiencing. Over time with deep meditation our identification with these experiences lessen...so yes maybe we have pain from whatever ailment but we don't have any of the judgements (good or bad) about what it means why its happening to us, why can't things be different, etc...pain in the physical body may be unavoidable...but the suffering comes about from our attachments/judgements of the experience. Ask the question "Who is it that's suffering"
With 24/7 "full on samadhi" our attachments to the experience aren't there, which actually represents the end of suffering (even if not the end of physical pain)...I openly admit that I am not there yet, but that is certainly what I'm working toward with 2x daily practices...
And all the "code words" are merely the shorthand ways of trying to describe a lot of the symptoms that you were describing at the beginning of your post. After awhile it becomes much easier to use a "code phrase" like ecstatic conductivity than to have to say every time a feeling of energy moving up from the root and down from the crown and permeating every cell of my body...or ecstatic bliss instead of a feeling of emptiness and merging with my surroundings while at the same time a feeling of tingling energy and indescribable bliss...just shorthand...sorry if it comes across as condescending or exclusionary it is certainly not the intent...as we all increasingly have these experiences, no doubt we will have our own unique ways of describing them!
Thanks for starting this thread and raising these issues I think its helpful for everyone!!
Much Love
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 3:20:10 PM
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Hi TNTN.
As Ether said, samadhi is not about smiling whilst suffering. Sahaja samadhi is when the samadhi that you are experiencing during meditation, which you described in your first post, begins to spill over into the rest of your life. It is the gradual spreading of ecstatic bliss into daily activity. Abiding just means "living in", and as this bliss expands we come to live in that place 24/7. "Moving" just means "moving". Samadhi is stillness, no motion at all, but within samadhi, something moves and that movement is ecstatic.
You are right, there are a lot of code words in yoga, and as Parallax says, it is a way of making communication easier. In fact AYP uses a lot less code words than many schools of yoga. But the code words are inevitable, especially when describing experiences which are not common to most people, such as those you described in your first post in this thread. Samadhi, ecstatic bliss, nirvikalpa, divine love, peace, are all words that describe things that people actually experience, and the words become much more meaningful when they become our reality. When we are abiding in them.
The lesson that Parallax linked to is a great lesson on suffering and the end of suffering. You may also find the 17 lessons that follow that one useful. They are a summery of Yogani's book called "Self Inquiry", and aptly sub-titled "The dawn of the witness and the end of suffering". It's one of the best books I ever read, but you have to be ready for it, ready to take your samadhi (bliss) into every moment of your life.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on May 09 2010 4:28:58 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 4:06:56 PM
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Hey thanks guys, you have all been very helpful.
Parrallax, thanks for the link to the great lesson 321 from Yogani.
Christi, i really appreciate your wise responses.
While i can relate to yogani's words, and to what you have both said as well, with regard to suffering... at the same time i just can't completely reconcile that with my personal experience. Two years ago i would have agreed 100% with this assessment of suffering.
My (limited) understanding is that some people on the mystic path undergo more suffering than others, and in fact, it is quite clear that the divine does intend for us to suffer. It is part of the purification process.
I think it is wise to differentiate the suffering caused by identification with things (attachments) and the suffering imposed upon us by the divine. Personally, i have experienced the constant samahdi that you talk about (sahaja) for extended lengths of time. But while this samahdi does give me perspective and the ability to smile at the vicissitudes of life, it does not eliminate the trials imposed upon our lives by the divine. Hence the phrase i spoke of: smiling while suffering.
And it is of this point that i am fairly certain. We must suffer in order to complete the transformative process. Not only this, but it is not about overcoming the suffering so much as it is about completing these trials.
I guess, informally, what i'm saying is that despite my best efforts, i feel somewhat abandoned by the divine power. That is, i feel that now i am expected to "do what i'm told" but without any recompense, in contrast with the past in which i felt a divine plan and purpose. As if somehow, i should be able to survive in the world and follow my path with all the forces of the universe allied against me. Have you heard the phrase "the universe conspiring against me?" .... that is exactly the expression i would use to describe the last couple of years. And yes, a lot of the time, i could still laugh and smile about the mysterious nature of the universe and the divine, and find contentedness even in that suffering. Contentedness, but not fulfillment.
Earlier in my path, i could easily discern the magical qualities of the universe, and in deep stillness i could find my way. Now it seems that deep stillness gets me nowhere, i feel abandoned, as nothing happens in deep stillness and any effort on my part to improve my situation or find my way is doomed to failure by some divine precept.
So it is very difficult to resolve notions like these that are very common at AYP. Notions that somehow with regular practice, things will improve. Or that suffering is just a matter of attachment. I know from experience that these notions are not completely accurate, and while they may be true early in one's path, i do not agree that they are true for me where i stand today. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 4:23:25 PM
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quote:
Have you heard the phrase "the universe conspiring against me?" .... that is exactly the expression i would use to describe the last couple of years.
Who is being conspired against? Who is suffering?
Love!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 4:46:45 PM
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hehehehe, Carson, 
That would be me, and me!
This is a very difficult thing to explain.
For instance, at this moment, i can be here and if i wish be completely content, and feel the universal nature of existence.
And yet, this ability is entirely dependent upon me having a roof over my head, and enough food in my stomach. Without those things, i will no longer be able to be content. I must have the basic things in order to reach my spiritual potential. You cannot reach "samadhi" without the basic hierarchy of needs.
However, what i meant in the last post is that it has felt as if the universe, in its infinite wisdom, has been attempting to take those things away from me. Whether that means an ability to practice, or something else. More succinctly, the things that i require in order to function on a basic level have been the things that the universe is taking away from me. So much so, that i was a hair's breadth away from not being here today.
So i know you're going for some kind of taoist mind trick with your question Carson , but there's my answer!
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 5:09:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
That would be me, and me!
This is a very difficult thing to explain.
Very difficult to explain because there really is no "you", no "me", no "I". Don't believe me? Just try and tell me where this "me" is....WHAT this "me" is. Is it a body? A brain? An idea? A desire? Pretty hard to pinpoint what "I" am because it doesn't actually exist.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
For instance, at this moment, i can be here and if i wish be completely content, and feel the universal nature of existence.
And yet, this ability is entirely dependent upon me having a roof over my head, and enough food in my stomach.
This is all physical stuff. What "we" are is quite beyond the physical, although it is physical as well.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Without those things, i will no longer be able to be content.
I know a couple of homeless people who would beg to differ. I used to teach AYP to some homeless people at the local homeless shelter, and some of them are the happiest, most content people I have ever known, and they did not have a (consistent) roof over their heads nor food in their bellies (often).
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
I must have the basic things in order to reach my spiritual potential. You cannot reach "samadhi" without the basic hierarchy of needs.
The people described in this topic here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=7700 seem to have a different point of view!
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
However, what i meant in the last post is that it has felt as if the universe, in its infinite wisdom, has been attempting to take those things away from me.
I understand what you meant. But everything happens for a reason. If the universe is making it difficult for you to eat and keep a roof over your head it is because that is what is required in order to bring you home. It can be no other way.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Whether that means an ability to practice, or something else. More succinctly, the things that i require in order to function on a basic level have been the things that the universe is taking away from me. So much so, that i was a hair's breadth away from not being here today.
Well, I hope that you continue to fight for your physical existence and that the Universe chooses to keep you around for a while longer. If there is anything I can do to help please don't hesitate to ask....I will do whatever I can to help.
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
So i know you're going for some kind of taoist mind trick with your question Carson , but there's my answer!
Hahaha, no, no Taoist mind trick intended. Just trying to spur some inquiry into who you really are. Perhaps it was unwarranted.
Love!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 6:29:33 PM
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Hehehehe, thanks for the dialogue Carson.
Well, with respect, the link only talks about urban legends of a couple of people. I have never seen any evidence that one can overcome physical reality. That is like an water molecule losing its hyrdrogen atoms and still claiming it is water.
Regardless of all the Eastern jargon, i am actually a person. I exist. You cannot deny this. If nothing else, i am attention itself, the observer. At a higher level, of course, i just exist.
But nonetheless, i exist, in a variety of forms. And i exist in different forms according to what "density" i am at in a particular moment. So for example, if i am chopping wood, i have one form. If i am meditating, i have a much more subtle form. In the end, i always have some sort of expression of existence, including the "formless" expression of existence.
One of these forms we have is on a very physical level!
Anyways i appreciate your perspective Carson, it is certainly interesting! I just don't have the same conception of the nature of things , it is not in my nature.
I really believe there is a reason to be here other than sitting around feeling content that things suck so bad ... i guess if this goes on maybe i'll be the first once-enlightened person to go lucifer-style! hehehehe 
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 05:24:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Hey thanks guys, you have all been very helpful.
Parrallax, thanks for the link to the great lesson 321 from Yogani.
Christi, i really appreciate your wise responses.
While i can relate to yogani's words, and to what you have both said as well, with regard to suffering... at the same time i just can't completely reconcile that with my personal experience. Two years ago i would have agreed 100% with this assessment of suffering.
My (limited) understanding is that some people on the mystic path undergo more suffering than others, and in fact, it is quite clear that the divine does intend for us to suffer. It is part of the purification process.
I think it is wise to differentiate the suffering caused by identification with things (attachments) and the suffering imposed upon us by the divine. Personally, i have experienced the constant samahdi that you talk about (sahaja) for extended lengths of time. But while this samahdi does give me perspective and the ability to smile at the vicissitudes of life, it does not eliminate the trials imposed upon our lives by the divine. Hence the phrase i spoke of: smiling while suffering.
And it is of this point that i am fairly certain. We must suffer in order to complete the transformative process. Not only this, but it is not about overcoming the suffering so much as it is about completing these trials.
I guess, informally, what i'm saying is that despite my best efforts, i feel somewhat abandoned by the divine power. That is, i feel that now i am expected to "do what i'm told" but without any recompense, in contrast with the past in which i felt a divine plan and purpose. As if somehow, i should be able to survive in the world and follow my path with all the forces of the universe allied against me. Have you heard the phrase "the universe conspiring against me?" .... that is exactly the expression i would use to describe the last couple of years. And yes, a lot of the time, i could still laugh and smile about the mysterious nature of the universe and the divine, and find contentedness even in that suffering. Contentedness, but not fulfillment.
Earlier in my path, i could easily discern the magical qualities of the universe, and in deep stillness i could find my way. Now it seems that deep stillness gets me nowhere, i feel abandoned, as nothing happens in deep stillness and any effort on my part to improve my situation or find my way is doomed to failure by some divine precept.
So it is very difficult to resolve notions like these that are very common at AYP. Notions that somehow with regular practice, things will improve. Or that suffering is just a matter of attachment. I know from experience that these notions are not completely accurate, and while they may be true early in one's path, i do not agree that they are true for me where i stand today.
Hi TNTN,
Yes, it is important to look after your body, make sure you have a roof over your head and food to eat. That way you can take care of the body and keep it strong enough to do your spiritual practices. It may be true that during the later stages of the path this becomes less necessary (or completely unnecessary), but for most of us it is important.
As for the relationship between suffering and attachment, it is still valid. If we do not get the things we want, we suffer. It doesn't really matter what those things are... food, shelter, a job, security, fulfilling relationships etc. But we only suffer if attachment to the object of the desire is present. No attachment, no suffering. If you apply for a job, and are not attached to whether or not you get the job, and you don't get it, you don't suffer.
Suffering will be present as long as attachment to the outcome of our desires is present. It really doesn't have much to do with God, or the universe. It has a lot to do with us, and what we are ready to let go of. Meditation is the practice of letting go. Again and again we let go into silence. The silence is not actually as important as the process of letting go, because it is the process of letting go, which is ultimately liberating.
Gradually as silence deepens, there is the gradual differentiation between ourselves as the observer (the subject), and of everything else as object. This is the rise of the witness. When this happens it is possible to view the events of our lives with objectivity and equanimity. We know that we are not that, but are observing that happening. Suffering can still be present in the witness state, to the extent that we are still identified with the vicissitudes of the mind, with the play of attachment and identification within the thought stream.
Sahaja samadhi is a stage beyond the witness (identification with subjective awareness). It comes about when there is no longer attachment or identification with the waves of the surface mind. It is an expansion of consciousness beyond our limited reality and beyond the subject/object differentiation. In sahaja samadhi, suffering for our own self is not possible, because the limited self is no longer part of our perception. Compassion is a natural condition in sahaja samadhi, as the heart opens in love. It is both contentment, and fulfilment and is the end of suffering.
This is a natural progression which takes place as our practice deepens. Self-inquiry plays an important role in this, taking us beyond the sitting cushion, and bringing the insights that we have found there into our everyday life.
All the best,
Christi
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 06:42:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
The silence is not actually as important as the process of letting go, because it is the process of letting go, which is ultimately liberating.
Hi Christi,
I sometimes think this is the crux. My thinking is that this idea of 'letting go' is confusing to many. My approach is that it is about acceptance as much as it is about letting go.
There is more balance to it. Something like a simultaneous equation.
Let go in order to accept and accept in order to let go.
'letting go' conjures the idea of pushing away a thought, ignoring it etc. Acceptance, suggests identifying with the thought. Neither are wrong or right only the perception of the meaning. For balance both meanings help cancel out the perception.
Maybe that could be improved upon ? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 07:28:59 AM
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Hi Karl,
Yes, when we let go of what is not real, we accept what is real. As you say, two sides of the same equation. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 6:58:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
The silence is not actually as important as the process of letting go, because it is the process of letting go, which is ultimately liberating.
Hi Christi,
I sometimes think this is the crux. My thinking is that this idea of 'letting go' is confusing to many. My approach is that it is about acceptance as much as it is about letting go.
There is more balance to it. Something like a simultaneous equation.
Let go in order to accept and accept in order to let go.
'letting go' conjures the idea of pushing away a thought, ignoring it etc. Acceptance, suggests identifying with the thought. Neither are wrong or right only the perception of the meaning. For balance both meanings help cancel out the perception.
Maybe that could be improved upon ?
Hi Christi
I completely agree with you that attachment leads to suffering.
I apologize, because sometimes i do not write my thoughts very clearly.
There is something else, beyond the suffering of attachment. That is a suffering related to one's dharma. If my dharma is not being lived to its potential, i suffer. That is the suffering that i am referring to, even beyond the suffering of attachment.
And yes, you can say that attachment to dharma is still attachment
I want my dharma, goddamit! Hehehehe
I totally dig your description of sahaja samahdi too. And you know what? When i am living my dharma.... i have absolutely no problem keeping that state. Its the periods when i am not in my dharma that i just can't keep it! I wonder if you can relate?
Here is what i don't understand....
what happens is that i lose my dharma (and then of course i always lose my sahaja state within a few days) because of external circumstances...not things i am attached to necessarily (although sometimes), but its like when the universe wants to mess with you and throw you off, and statistically impossible events begin occur in rapid succession.
I can tell you that when life starts throwing strange curveballs, and i mean strange, that's what throws me out of my dharma.
So, is that like karma then? Karma comes and kills my dharma? Or is it purification? I really don't have a clue.
All i know is that this is a form of suffering too, not having one's dharma.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 04:50:00 AM
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All is thought, everything for a reason.
You see that you are trying to fight with the thoughts. They are your thoughts. They divide up nicely like opposing sides even when there is only one. This is how your mind justifies and enforces it's own existence, it spins up a whole universe and doesn't know when to quit, it's a machine that lacks control and all it wants to do is to throw as many balls in the air as possible, it's very creative.
When you say 'the universe throws me a curved ball' you regard that as an undesirable thing, you make a judgement which is yet another thought. Accept all these things, you cannot fight thought with thought because it is just internal war and that internal war is projected into what you see around you.
Until you call a halt to that internal war you will be forever surrounded by a fog which obscures the truth. Just like the wars you see being fought around you they are solved not by more bloodshed but by peaceful intent, by fully committed people who are genuine.
Accept the 'curved ball' with good grace, welcome it, show it genuine understanding and love and you see it for what it really is. That is the truth you will see and that will be the end to internal conflict.
Accept totally in order to let go. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 09:28:34 AM
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Hi TNTN,
quote:
There is something else, beyond the suffering of attachment. That is a suffering related to one's dharma. If my dharma is not being lived to its potential, i suffer. That is the suffering that i am referring to, even beyond the suffering of attachment.
And yes, you can say that attachment to dharma is still attachment
I will.
quote:
I can tell you that when life starts throwing strange curveballs, and i mean strange, that's what throws me out of my dharma.
So, is that like karma then? Karma comes and kills my dharma? Or is it purification? I really don't have a clue.
Yes, that's karma at work. Anything that spins us off-centre is karma, the delayed reactions of deep-rooted samskaras. As Karl says, accept the curve balls with grace. Originally, we set the whole thing up, so it is difficult to blame anyone else for what happens. Accepting what is, is our real (and highest) Dharma, and the only dharma which leads to Moksha (liberation).
Christi |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2010 : 5:02:15 PM
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This discussion is quite helpful
I am beginning to see that "Sanskaras" color our perception.
I have noticed in the past that the objects of observational perception are sometimes false, just as our internal voices are sometimes false.
So i suppose i must concentrate on distinguishing the external "voices", just as i have done with the internal "voices"... thus, i would imagine they will disappear.
In a sense, Sanskaras implies that i am having trouble seeing the object as it really is if, for instance, a circumstance repeats itself.
Am i on the right track here? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2010 : 04:18:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
This discussion is quite helpful
I am beginning to see that "Sanskaras" color our perception.
I have noticed in the past that the objects of observational perception are sometimes false, just as our internal voices are sometimes false.
So i suppose i must concentrate on distinguishing the external "voices", just as i have done with the internal "voices"... thus, i would imagine they will disappear.
In a sense, Sanskaras implies that i am having trouble seeing the object as it really is if, for instance, a circumstance repeats itself.
Am i on the right track here?
Of course, because you project all that you see. It's all internal. Everything enters through the senses and then you make them fit your ideal. Although others might see a ball, only you view it as your particular attachment to 'ball'. For you a ball may represent a string of thoughts related to suffering while another may think of the ball with fondness because it is related to happy times.
Even the word 'ball' will conjure that image without there being one around and that is your internal representation that you will apply to a solid example.
Of course you supose that 'ball' would invoke a simple 'like' or 'dislike', however the amount of connected information and thoughts range through your timeline (and beyond). It's a huge raft of complexity that has taken a long time to build.
First you need to get a clear view on these thoughts and understand that you are not them.
My mental image of this is of a projector lamp illuminating pictures and projecting them on a wall. The pictures are thoughts, until illuminated they have no energy. Something watches the pictures and something illuminates them. The pictures can interract with each other, like colliding bodies, and produce many more pictures, it is totally dynamic and infinitely fast.
That mental image is only for simplification because it is very different and not at all explainable, only experiencial, but it does serve to get an idea across. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2010 : 05:23:11 AM
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I might also add that it is acceptance of the thoughts without attachment that is the root of change.
What was important for me was to end suffering. It was not to go somewhere spriritual, attain fantastic powers or be able to see the inside of creation as an untouchable being.
All suffering is internal, finding the mechanism to release this and gain perspective gives ultimate acceptance and so ultimate acceptance of self allows a wider vision and a deeper understanding.
It does not mean that I communicate with God or can understand how I became I. Just, simply that I love what I am and that everything else is, regardless of how it is and finally an end to the search for something to make me happy/something to become/something to avoid.
Does make me laugh out loud at how I ended up like that in the first place. It really is so simple, yet I seemed to have decided to make it into something with infinite complexity and difficulty in order to obscure the truth.
You can have the same but you have got to decide that you really want to take it and that's the hard part |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2010 : 06:06:47 AM
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Hi TNTN,
quote:
In a sense, Sanskaras implies that i am having trouble seeing the object as it really is if, for instance, a circumstance repeats itself.
Am i on the right track here?
Yes. Samskaras are mental formations, or habitual tendencies. They are like ripples on a lake which prevent the light of the moon from being reflected clearly. Through consistent spiritual practices, the surface of the mind becomes like a still lake, and the world is reflected on the lake as it really is. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2010 : 8:24:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
I might also add that it is acceptance of the thoughts without attachment that is the root of change.
What was important for me was to end suffering. It was not to go somewhere spriritual, attain fantastic powers or be able to see the inside of creation as an untouchable being.
All suffering is internal, finding the mechanism to release this and gain perspective gives ultimate acceptance and so ultimate acceptance of self allows a wider vision and a deeper understanding.
It does not mean that I communicate with God or can understand how I became I. Just, simply that I love what I am and that everything else is, regardless of how it is and finally an end to the search for something to make me happy/something to become/something to avoid.
Does make me laugh out loud at how I ended up like that in the first place. It really is so simple, yet I seemed to have decided to make it into something with infinite complexity and difficulty in order to obscure the truth.
You can have the same but you have got to decide that you really want to take it and that's the hard part
I get what your saying here. You want peace. Makes sense.
I want peace too, everyone wants peace.
But like most humans, i want to contribute and i want to use my talents to create and to thrive and to serve. Life to me is more than just the evolution of spirituality... its about a making believe, its about playing, its about mystery and its about romanticism.
I think we can do both. Do you? |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2010 : 8:36:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi TNTN,
quote:
In a sense, Sanskaras implies that i am having trouble seeing the object as it really is if, for instance, a circumstance repeats itself.
Am i on the right track here?
Yes. Samskaras are mental formations, or habitual tendencies. They are like ripples on a lake which prevent the light of the moon from being reflected clearly. Through consistent spiritual practices, the surface of the mind becomes like a still lake, and the world is reflected on the lake as it really is.
It makes me think that the nature of yoga is to be vigilant in countering habits... whether that's muscular movements, the way you walk to the store, or how you think.
As i understand it, neurons that are used the most often become the strongest... in a similar way, neuromuscular paths that are used often become ingrained... so we create grooves in our brain, grooves in the transmission lines of our body, we create grooves on maps... hehehe...
asanas work to break down neuromuscular habits and promote ideal posture. meditation works to break down the habitual ways of the mind... if we walk to the store the same way every time we go, we will miss out on all kinds of different stores and places... so by breaking down these habits, and flattening the "land" we are in effect opening ourselves to see everything there is on offer.
Not sure if you guys can follow that, but its just a though |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4381 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2010 : 04:27:13 AM
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Hi TNTN,
That's right, yoga is about creating new habits, habits which lead to union and love rather than suffering and seperation. Simple really. |
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I need some help understanding meditation
