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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
 Posted - May 07 2010 : 02:54:44 AM
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Hello there,
I was scanning some topics in the forum and I found a question from a practitioner who was accustomed to meditating in Savasana, or laying down rather than in Siddhasana.
I myself enjoy meditating in Savasana, although I do meditate in both positions.
I know that, in general, Siddhasana is recommended for meditation.
However, the only benefit of Siddhasana over Savasana seems to be the risk of falling asleep. Personally, i have never had a problem with this.
Are there any other reasons why, in your opinion, Siddhasana is preferable? |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2010 : 04:14:30 AM
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Siddhasana prevents energy from leaking from fingers and toes. The gravity effects lesser on the body in this position and the straight spine allows proper flow of Kundalini. A tongue lock will also seal your aura.
Its comfortable.
And its the only other posture in which a human can actually fall asleep... apart from lying down. This is the beauty and secret of this asana. A state can be achieved that is of dreamless deep sleep.
NATURALNESS IS TECHNIQUE, ASANA HAPPENS.
http://www.balbro.com/dd/die9.htm |
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Clear White Light
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2010 : 08:11:44 AM
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| The main benefit of Siddhasana has to do with the heel putting pressure on the perineum, thus stimulating the root chakra. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2010 : 1:29:57 PM
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Thanks for your reponses guys!
Manigma,
that is an interesting point about energy "leaking" from the hands and feet. I will have to keep my focus on this the next times i meditate. I think you might be on to something here...
Clear White,
If pressure on the root chakra is the main benefit to this asana, is it fair to say that if one does not believe in the literal connection of sex/tantra/prana than Siddhasana is no better than Savasana?
Greats points guys.... I have to say that i'm not convinced about the superiority of Siddhasana. I would love to hear some other people weigh in here! :) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 06:08:40 AM
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Hi Tonightsthenight,
quote:
Greats points guys.... I have to say that i'm not convinced about the superiority of Siddhasana. I would love to hear some other people weigh in here! :)
Siddhasana creates a gentle flow of energy moving upwards through the body. Gradually this flow of energy becomes ecstatic and fills the whole body. This ecstasy is part of the enlightenment equation and combined with meditation gradually evolves into ecstatic bliss.
This is the main reason that siddhasana is sometimes referred to as the king of all the asanas. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 5:16:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Tonightsthenight,
quote:
Greats points guys.... I have to say that i'm not convinced about the superiority of Siddhasana. I would love to hear some other people weigh in here! :)
Siddhasana creates a gentle flow of energy moving upwards through the body. Gradually this flow of energy becomes ecstatic and fills the whole body. This ecstasy is part of the enlightenment equation and combined with meditation gradually evolves into ecstatic bliss.
This is the main reason that siddhasana is sometimes referred to as the king of all the asanas.
But how is it superior to savasana since you can obtain these benefits in both poses? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2010 : 5:27:26 PM
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Hi tonightsthenight 
How does savasana stimulate energy flow from the perineum/root? (sorry for my ignorance)
Love!
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 04:01:16 AM
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| Personally I prefer padmasana (the lotus position) for meditation, but it is difficult or even painful for most people. Siddhasana oddly enough is more difficult for me, but in either case you are in an upright sitting position and the relationship to gravity is the main difference from savasana. Being vertical in relationship to gravity effects the breath, nervous system and conciousness. It creates alertness at the same time that you are training to quiet the mind. Lying down in savasana is very restful and good as a recovery from asana, pranayama, and meditation practice but I would not use it as a substitute for sitting practices. There is also much more of a tendency to fall asleep in savasana which can be very restful but is not the same as AYP deep meditation. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 04:24:33 AM
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Thanks for your opinions guys :)
Carson,
I don't understand why that is even an issue? In savasana there is as much energy as i call upon. it is very relaxing, and allows one to completely surrender to the holy divine.
victor,
padmasana! you're bonkers! hehehe  , that is one difficult position. Siddhasana seems quite natural, but padmasana for me is impossible 
In terms of alertness, i don't know, i am perfectly alert in savasana, i can attain much deeper levels of meditation within it. in siddhasana, i always feel like i am half way there, part of the world. in savasana i can feel like i'm in another place, completely sepearate. and certainly i can attain much higher levels of energy within savasana. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 11:33:35 AM
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Hi tonightsthenight
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Carson,
I don't understand why that is even an issue? In savasana there is as much energy as i call upon. it is very relaxing, and allows one to completely surrender to the holy divine.
Who said there was an issue?  (certainly not me!)
My reason for asking was because the main benefit of siddhasana is the direct stimulation (in an upward direction) of the root/kundalini with the heel. I just don't see how this can be done in savasana (hence my comment about being sorry for being ignorant and me asking you for some clarification)
Love!
P.S. Most people who try to meditate in savasana fall asleep and no meditation is achieved which is another reason why it is not recommended to meditate in savasana and is usually better to meditate in an upright position. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2010 : 4:47:33 PM
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Hi TNTN,
quote:
Siddhasana creates a gentle flow of energy moving upwards through the body. Gradually this flow of energy becomes ecstatic and fills the whole body. This ecstasy is part of the enlightenment equation and combined with meditation gradually evolves into ecstatic bliss.
This is the main reason that siddhasana is sometimes referred to as the king of all the asanas.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But how is it superior to savasana since you can obtain these benefits in both poses?
Yes, these benefits can be obtained in both poses, but savasana does not create a gentle flow of energy throughout the body, and neither does it activate the root chakra. These things can be done consciously in savasana, using attention, but at what cost? When we are doing one thing, we are taking our attention away from other things. This is the real beauty of siddhasana, it is kundalini stimulation in automatic mode. The attention can then be freed up for other purposes, such as kriyas (like spinal breathing), meditation and samyama practice whilst the root chakra is being gently activated automatically.
And, as Victor pointed out, there is an important relationship between the spine and the direction of the Earth's gravitational pull during meditation. It is good to have them aligned if possible. That's my experience anyway, but if something different is working for you then I would stick with it and not worry about what is inferior or superior. If you are used to using savasana for meditation and it is working, I would stick with it.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on May 09 2010 4:51:25 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2010 : 4:11:46 PM
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Thanks for your responses!
I think i will try out more siddhisana than i've been doing recently.
Although i do find savasana to be "automatic" as well, it will be interesting to push my limits with siddhisana.
Generally, i have chosen savasana over siddhisana because the "swaying" as always been so pronounced while sitting. I really have to focus on shutting it down in asana classes, for example, otherwise everyone's sitting and i'm there doing this weird little "dance"! |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 02:59:48 AM
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| I get swaying too in sitting practice. I just learned to enjoy it and not suppress it. With time internal releases come and the silence gets deeper and the swaying becomes more internal and less noticable |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 03:20:07 AM
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| yeah, the real "issue" i've found is that i can't really tell i'm swaying, so i'll be there doing it, and then all of a sudden i realize i'm swaying. hope nobodies looking! |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 05:41:23 AM
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| Yeah, I practice at home in my room so no worries about spectators |
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Rael
USA
173 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 06:20:14 AM
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Hi All! 
Unless i am way-off balance inside, no matter what, my sexual force is pretty strong and consistent. I have done my practice, from the beginning, in a full lotus with my hands down on my knees. (My hands are placed in spontaneously-occuring mudras nowa' days, sometimes). Do i really need to sit on my heel? I must say i am not CONSCIOUS of my sexual forces while i am practicing, so maybe it WOULD be good idea?
Also, it is mentioned above to put the tip of the tongue up on the front of the upper palate. I have never been able to get a straight answer as to whether we are supposed to do this in Kundalini Yoga or not. I know it is favored for the Microcosmic Orbit in Chi Kung (Qi Gong), but else wise??? I try to leave my tongue lying on he bottom of my mouth, as much as possible.
Oh, and i do PLENTY of swaying too, at one point even when i got up to walk around, even side-to-side...hah hah! If i get sleepy, my body takes over and sways like crazy...TOO tired and i fall forward!
Blessings!
Rael! |
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Wafu
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 06:29:20 AM
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Interesting discussion.
Tonightsthenight are you using the AYP Deep Meditation technique? I have experimented with meditation in savasana and for some reason it just doesn't seem to "work" as well. I've been wondering why for some time, and I guess the orientation of the nervous system relative to gravity may have something to do with it since that seems to be the only significant difference between savasana and siddhasana that would affect meditation (except possibly the root chakra issue).
Although, the brain is still the brain, and the spine remains the spine, no matter which way up it is. And in my understanding the effects of gravity should not effect the movement of energy within the nervous system, as gravity only acts upon matter with mass. My inclination would be to say that when lying in a prone position, the nervous system notifies the body that we would like to rest and begins shutting things down and producing Melatonin, (the sleep hormone) and taking other measures to prepare the body for sleep. Perhaps your own body does not respond as strongly in this way, allowing you to meditate properly without falling asleep.
Some nervous systems operate differently to others it would seem, not much of a surprise I guess |
Edited by - Wafu on May 11 2010 07:32:04 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 07:51:11 AM
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Hi Wafu,
quote:
I have experimented with meditation in savasana and for some reason it just doesn't seem to "work" as well. I've been wondering why for some time, and I guess the orientation of the nervous system relative to gravity may have something to do with it since that seems to be the only significant difference between savasana and siddhasana that would affect meditation (except possibly the root chakra issue).
Although, the brain is still the brain, and the spine remains the spine, no matter which way up it is. And in my understanding the effects of gravity should not effect the movement of energy within the nervous system, as gravity only acts upon matter with mass.
In my experience it doesn't really have much to with gravity, the connection is just coincidental. By aligning the spine with the direction of the Earth's gravitational pull we are aligning our spine with the Earth's spiritaul energetic field. The Earth is a living organism with it's own spiritual aura and pranic flows. The spiritual energy of the Earth rises up from it's centre and flows out through the surface. So any sitting or standing posture will align the spine with the Earth's rising pranic flow.
Christi |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 1:41:33 PM
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| Rael, the tongue has been addressed possibly more than any other body part on this website. Personally, that is the reason that I came to AYP because I was curious about kechari mudra and then discovered a comprehensive practice here. In AYP the tongue is suggested to be kept in kechari mudra or at least turned upward to touch the palate, so yes, it is the same direction as in the microcosmic orbit and even further! |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2010 : 6:43:22 PM
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Rael,
In my experience regarding the position of the tongue:
My tongue was "forced" to touch the top of my palate in deep meditation, similar to the automatic hand mudras that you are speaking of... I do not keep my tongue there all day long, but the position of my tongue is almost always "automatic", even when not in meditation. There is a lot of energy that flows through there.
This was before i had ever read anything about microcosmic orbit or kundalini so take that for what its worth.
Wafu,
I do not practice AYP meditation, although i have incorporated spinal breathing and mantra ay-am in my practice on a preliminary basis.
My practice originally derives from automatic and/or intuitive movements and inspirations. I have found that my spiritual experiences differ quite a bit from a lot of people that have sought out energetic experience with AYP. In my opinion, this is likely the reason for my different reaction to savasana.
One thing i feel inclined to note is that my meditation practice is quite different in intent than the AYP method. Much of my meditation is in fact focused upon "resting" (as you have noted that savasana/reclining promotes rest). This is how my nervous system integrates... so a fairly typical meditation session will be one of "give and take" with the divine.... that is concentration and then oblivion... push and receive... back and forth. Hope that makes sense 
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Wafu
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2010 : 08:50:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
In my experience it doesn't really have much to with gravity, the connection is just coincidental. By aligning the spine with the direction of the Earth's gravitational pull we are aligning our spine with the Earth's spiritaul energetic field. The Earth is a living organism with it's own spiritual aura and pranic flows. The spiritual energy of the Earth rises up from it's centre and flows out through the surface. So any sitting or standing posture will align the spine with the Earth's rising pranic flow.
Thanks for this perspective Christi, I had not considered this possibility. So by aligning the spine vertically we are in harmony with the direction of natural energy flow from the earth, I see
quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
My practice originally derives from automatic and/or intuitive movements and inspirations. I have found that my spiritual experiences differ quite a bit from a lot of people that have sought out energetic experience with AYP. In my opinion, this is likely the reason for my different reaction to savasana.
I think I understand, thank you |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2010 : 09:53:35 AM
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Any posture that you take in meditation should be passive. In India we have evolved the most passive ASANA, that is SIDDHASANA. And the beauty of SIDDHASANA (as Buddha sits) is that the body is in the deepest of passive states.
Even while lying down you are not so passive; even while sleeping, your posture is not so passive, it is active.
Why is SIDDHASANA so passive? For many reasons. In this posture the body is locked, closed. The body has an electric circle: when the circle is closed and locked, the electricity moves round and round inside the body, it does not leak out. Now it is a proved scientific phenomenon that in certain postures your body leaks energy. When the body is leaking energy, it has to create energy continuously. It is active. The body dynamo has to work continuously because you are leaking. When energy is leaking from the outside body, the inside body has to be active to replace it. So the most passive state will be when no energy is leaking.
http://www.oshoworld.com/tantra_med...?news_id=109
The finest of all postures for meditation is called siddhasana (accomplished pose). In this pose, if you gently and gradually practice it, you will find that your body becomes like a statue.
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/M..._posture.htm
This is my experience too. The body would lock, close and become like statue.
And I did Savasana right after Siddhasana everyday.
Savasana worked like coming back to earth and becoming normal again (fitting back inside the body mind). The energy realigned with the earth at chakra points on the body. More like grounding.
The body is made of earth. You are made of sky. |
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Rael
USA
173 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2010 : 04:28:13 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Rael,
In my experience regarding the position of the tongue:
My tongue was "forced" to touch the top of my palate in deep meditation, similar to the automatic hand mudras that you are speaking of... I do not keep my tongue there all day long, but the position of my tongue is almost always "automatic", even when not in meditation. There is a lot of energy that flows through there.
This was before i had ever read anything about microcosmic orbit or kundalini so take that for what its worth.
Dear Victor and TNT!
Thank you for your responses! Maybe i have over-looked something, but in all the directions from Yogani, from Deep Meditation to Samyama, i have seen no directions concerning the tongue. When it is spontaneously pushed there, i would imagine that that is because it is something that is needed by your system. I have seen the references to Kechari, but i am not at that stage yet, nor has my tongue been placed for me in that way. If someone could present me with a link or directions to get to this information (from AYP site), from within the first three levels of practice, i would greatly appreciate it. I tend to be inclined to do it, from many years of using it outside of this practice, but i also want to go by the book when it comes to what i should do willfully.
Love and Blessings!
Sincerely,
Rael! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2010 : 06:44:40 AM
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Hi Rael,
quote:
Thank you for your responses! Maybe i have over-looked something, but in all the directions from Yogani, from Deep Meditation to Samyama, i have seen no directions concerning the tongue. When it is spontaneously pushed there, i would imagine that that is because it is something that is needed by your system. I have seen the references to Kechari, but i am not at that stage yet, nor has my tongue been placed for me in that way. If someone could present me with a link or directions to get to this information (from AYP site), from within the first three levels of practice, i would greatly appreciate it. I tend to be inclined to do it, from many years of using it outside of this practice, but i also want to go by the book when it comes to what i should do willfully.
Yes, there are no special instructions about placing the tongue during Deep Meditation or Spinal Breathing pranayama, or any of the other AYP practices other than kechari mudra. Just let your tongue rest gently wherever feels most comfortable.
Christi |
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idiotegue
Czech Republic
12 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2010 : 09:01:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
yeah, the real "issue" i've found is that i can't really tell i'm swaying, so i'll be there doing it, and then all of a sudden i realize i'm swaying. hope nobodies looking!
Just a funny thing: I am not only swaying but my mouth also spontaneously opens, and as I have quite a lot of saliva, I just spit on myself  so cool
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
The body would lock, close and become like statue.
That's correct! My body seems quite lock (maybe even disconnected)/ when I finish DM, I can't often move for a while. I am already fully consciousness and sending signals to my body but it just ignores me and it takes some time to reload it again |
Edited by - idiotegue on May 15 2010 09:13:31 AM |
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Rael
USA
173 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2010 : 11:49:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Rael,
quote:
Thank you for your responses! Maybe i have over-looked something, but in all the directions from Yogani, from Deep Meditation to Samyama, i have seen no directions concerning the tongue. When it is spontaneously pushed there, i would imagine that that is because it is something that is needed by your system. I have seen the references to Kechari, but i am not at that stage yet, nor has my tongue been placed for me in that way. If someone could present me with a link or directions to get to this information (from AYP site), from within the first three levels of practice, i would greatly appreciate it. I tend to be inclined to do it, from many years of using it outside of this practice, but i also want to go by the book when it comes to what i should do willfully.
Yes, there are no special instructions about placing the tongue during Deep Meditation or Spinal Breathing pranayama, or any of the other AYP practices other than kechari mudra. Just let your tongue rest gently wherever feels most comfortable.
Christi
Thank you Christi!
Just to add to this;
When the tongue is placed at the front of the roof of the mouth, it trains the energy coming up to the head, from the ren-du spinal channel, to come down through the face, to the lower Dan Tien. Since in Kundalini yoga, the energy seems to be trained upward, period, i wonder if this position is compatible with Kundalini practice?
I guess my original question was based on the following:
* Does putting the tongue up this way also affect the Kundalini course of movement.
* If it does so, is it desirable to do so?
* Can this be used to relieve excess heat in the head without disturbing the Kundalini Process?
I probably should have been clearer in asking, since placement of the tongue in various parts of the palates creates far differing effects.
Thank so much
Love
Rael |
Edited by - Rael on May 18 2010 03:42:38 AM |
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Meditation Position
