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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 08 2006 : 11:43:55 PM
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hi all,
I am trying out siddhasana again, as I am feeling quite good these days. Not really doing it in meditation (since I think it's a bit distracting), just trying it out so I can use it when I need it. A few questions here:
1. when I sit on my heel, should the back of my hips be lying on the ground? Or should I only be sitting on my heel and nothing else? If I put the back of my hip on the ground, the hip will naturally be leaning a bit backward (since the front of it is uplifted by my heel). Also, the pressure on the perineum don't seem to be strong enough. On the other hand, sitting solely on the heel seems to require some balancing! Not difficult on its own, but I think it's not stable enough for meditation...
2. What hand position would you recommend when I just start it? This questions also applied for sitting in meditation cross-legged, as I don't seem to see any instructions on these in the lessons (at least I'm not yet into them) Currently I am putting them on my knees in chin mudra, palm facing down.
Thanks for any comments!
Alvin |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 09:09:09 AM
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Hi Alvin:
If you sit on a soft surface, like the bed, with back support, the foot will sink reducing excessive pressure and the hips will be level and resting on the bed also. Siddhasana in AYP is intended to be a comfortable seat with some sexual stimulation going upward, overlapping whatever other practice we are doing. The time to build the habit is in spinal breathing. Then eventually it will be comfortable in meditation and other sitting practices too.
Hands can go anywhere that is comfortable. In AYP we regard hand mudras, like chin or jnana, to be effect (automatic yoga) rather than cause.
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 10:06:26 AM
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Alvin,
absolutely don't sit on the heel and nothing else -- you could injure yourself (your penis!) permanently if you did that for a long time (though I'm guessing it probably would not happen from just the 20 minutes of meditation twice a day). But there is no doubt that if you sat with all your weight on your heel under your perineum for long periods regularly, you would probably develop erectile dysfunction, possibly permanent.
Many unwary cyclists have done this to themselves, from sitting improperly on the saddle.
I don't want to be a scaremonger about that, but let's not lose sight of the fact that the perineum is the root of the penis.
Also, the pressure on the perineum don't seem to be strong enough.
Strong enough for what?
-David
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 10:43:03 AM
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My bed seems to be too hard for that. Currently I am placing a cushion under the back of my hips to balance it out. Still, the hip tends to slide a bit backward, making the heels pressing into the more front part of the perineum. And this tendency also create a static friction between the clothes and the skin of the perineum, sometimes making the skin a bit painful. (though this is not a big deal) I have to adjust the position for quite a while everytime, to make sure that the heel isn't sliding too front which may hurt my genitals. (Or is it still hurting even if it's not front enough to press on my genitals? may be I should look up books on anatomy to make sure)
I do it during spinal breathing. I could feel the difference after adding siddhasana---I enjoy the process much more. Paradoxically it feels less sexually arousal than it was two months ago. The same goes for mulabandha. But I guess that's a good sign of energy going up instead of going down?
quote:
absolutely don't sit on the heel and nothing else -- you could injure yourself (your penis!) permanently if you did that for a long time
Sound rather terrible...I could recall the report on cyclists as you remind me. Actually I have no idea of how much weight is enough. So the large weight alone is enough for hurting my penis, without ever hurting it directly?
I will rest for a few days before I attempt again... |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 11:33:07 AM
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Alvin said:
So the large weight alone is enough for hurting my penis, without ever hurting it directly?
Yes Alvin, maybe you did not get his:
but let's not lose sight of the fact that the perineum is the root of the penis.
Your penis extends under the testicles as far as your anus. The perineum region is the base of the penis. The part of the penis in the perineum is where the penis, in the erection process, is firmly and rigidly attached to the body (otherwise it would swivel, like a carrot attached by a string to your body). Nerve damage in the perineum can effect the entire penis and cause erectile dysfunction.
Siddhasana should be done with light pressure on the perineum. You can do it quite effectively with a rolled-up sock if you want.
Best,
-D
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 12:42:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
but let's not lose sight of the fact that the perineum is the root of the penis.
Your penis extends under the testicles as far as your anus. The perineum region is the base of the penis. The part of the penis in the perineum is where the penis, in the erection process, is firmly and rigidly attached to the body (otherwise it would swivel, like a carrot attached by a string to your body).
I may have entered the wrong room here, but if you don't mind, I'd like to enter this discussion. The above quote makes me think that it's quite possible that siddhasana is a guy thing, which I've suspected all along. If the perineum is an extension of the penis, then what is it an extension of in the female anatomy? For me it seems to be some empty acreage which offers little in the way of pleasure. Furthermore, it doesn't create a very comfortable cushion. (It may be that I'm a bit boney down there). From what I can recall, there is a heel-sized gap between the perineum and the scrotum, which, when seated, I'd think would make a convenient little nest for a heel. You'll correct me if I'm wrong. So once the heel is in place, there isn't much room for it to slide around? With the female anatomy, however, there is the perineum, and then there is the great plains, which my heel tends to ride around during siddhasana and meditation. By the end of a sitting I feel like I've gone on a 10-mile bike ride.
I'd like to hear from some women on this. Do any of you experience any stimulation from siddhasana? Can you give me some advice? Specifically, where does your heel end up? Do you have any sexual sensations at the perineum? Thanks!!
m |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 12:45:55 PM
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Hi Alvin and David:
The root of the lingam goes up into the body before the anus and it is in the space between lingam root entry and anus where siddhasana is done, preferably with fairly light and adjustable pressure on the organ itself. With some practice this is quite easy to do on a soft surface with back support. The idea is not to crush the root of the lingam (David's caution on this is well-advised). It is to apply light pressure upward behind it -- the same place where blocking is done in tantra -- the hollow behind the pubic bone and root of the lingam, in front of the anus. This hollow area is analogous with the location of a woman's yoni opening. For further clarification on location, see here for a discussion of female and male aspects of siddhasana: http://www.aypsite.org/T28.html
Mulabandha/asvini joins in the process via the anus.
If you check "siddhasana" in the AYP lessons topic index (near top of list), you will find much more on this: http://www.aypsite.org/TopicIndex.html
The guru is in you.
PS -- Meg, we crossed notes on this one, but I believe the female side of it is covered here, at least as far as AYP goes to date. Lesson T28 above describes the traditional approach to siddhasana for women. Yes, feedback on siddhasana from the ladies would be welcome so we can refine this knowledge. There are yoginis I have been in touch with over the past few years who are using this method (and variations) with good ecstatic stimulation. Everyone has to find their own "sweet spot" in siddhasana.
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 1:15:00 PM
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| Thanks, Yogani. I'll check out the lesson. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 1:31:34 PM
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By the way, I think how much sexual stimulation you get from Siddhasana or Siddha Yoni Asana, is a very individual thing. I never got very much.
So now, do I put a smiley or a sad-face?
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2006 : 10:04:10 AM
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Yogani:
Is there an anatomical picture a-la-Gray's-Anatomy that we can refer to to visualize the direction of the perineum cavity, the root of the lingam and its direction inside the body, where the heel would fit and optimal direction of the pressure from the heel in respect the the perineum cavity? A treasure map of sorts |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2006 : 10:22:55 AM
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gaw, Y---you need more than a treasure map if you're having that hard a time navigating your perineum!  |
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2006 : 6:33:56 PM
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| I know where it is silly! It's just interesting to see the anatomy behind the practice. |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 01:21:07 AM
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I would like to see an anatomical picture too, detailed enough to show where the root of the lingam goes up. Not just for interest, though. From yoganni's lessons T28 it seems that there are certain schools which would pressure on the front of the perineum. That probably would press on the end the lingam? But still I concern much about permanent damages this may bring. So may be it's better for me to start with pressing the part closer to the anus....
I don't feel pain after my hard pressing (which I did for 2 days before I post this topic. Not on the sole only, but I was still applying quite a large pressure on the fronter part of the perineum). But after David's warning, I worried that I may have done some short term damage, so I intend to stop for a few weeks.
The feeling was not very "senxual" for me, but it makes my spinal breathing (and seemingly my feelings after the practices) better. These few days, the "coldness" at my throat during my sitting practices seems to expand into my daily life, and my nostrils (which also start to feel some coldness) could never flow so freely before! Though these could also be the results of other practices, such changes in just a few days still makes me looking forward to my next attempt on siddhasana.
Of course, I want to make it absolutely sure that I am not paying a high prices in the long run. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 07:58:37 AM
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Hi Alvin:
The approach to siddhasana in the AYP lessons has been in use here for over 20 years with no deleterious effects. To the contrary, siddhasana has been an essential component in cultivating ecstatic conductivity. But not the sole component -- it is a combination of the means presented that brings about the transformation. In time, these become naturally integrated, forming what the lessons call the "whole body mudra."
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 10:02:10 AM
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Alvin,
I didn't mean to scare you, just to caution not to sit with all your weight on your heel.
I expect strongly that guys who get 'saddle injuries' from sitting wrongly on the saddle feel sore, or discomfort, at some point maybe after the sitting on the saddle. Perhaps the absence of any discomfort should be a reassuring sign?
Cyclists who sit properly on the saddle do not get these problems. Likewise, people who do siddhasana properly won't hurt themselves.
Just watch out for extremes or pain as usual.
-D |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 10:28:23 AM
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Hi again:
There is also the old stand-by, especially favored by the ladies -- the rolled up sock. Where there is the will, there is a way.
The guru is in you.
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m_a_srini
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 4:41:33 PM
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Hi
I have been practicing pranayama and meditation for about a year and half now. However, I have been practicing Guru Yogani's meditation method and spinal breathing for a little over a month and a half and have had great results. Also, I have always been attempting to sit in
Siddhasana and off late have been able to sit for approximately 45 minutes in this asana.
My routine starts off at 5:30 am by doing Anuloma-Viloma Pranayama for about 15 minutes using Iyengars digital pranayama technique.
After this I do 4 rounds of Kapalabhati pranayama followed by 5 minutes of Spinal breathing pranayama.
During the Anuloma-Viloma pranayama I practice Mulabandha and Jalandara bandha. During Spinal breathing pranayama I practice Mulabandha.
My meditation session lasts for about 30 minutes followed by 10 minutes of rest.
Off late I have been experiencing some tingling sensation at the tip
of my genitals and was wondering if it has anything to do with the
pranic currents surging within my body during and after pranayama.
Please advice of any amends that I may need to make to my practice
to better my overall experience.
Thank You
- Srinivasan Mandayam A. |
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yogani
USA
5195 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2006 : 11:04:43 PM
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Hi Srinivasan:
Sounds like a very good routine. Not sure about the Iyengar anuloma-viloma pranayama. Maybe some of the Iyengar folks here can comment on that. If you find too much energy flowing later on it can be from inadvertently "doubling up" on pranayama. It can happen when using several styles, thinking they are not cumulative. They are, and sometimes it can lead to too much overall "restraint of breath" in a session or day. So be careful with that, and the delayed energy reaction that can happen with pranayama. A reasonable program of spinal breathing (5-10 minutes before meditation) and not overdoing with other styles of pranayama in our early days is the best insurance for avoiding undesirable energy buildups. These buildups are often invisible until a big release happens. Ka-boom! We have seen a few of those around here, and we are all getting smarter about pacing our practices as a result.
Yes, any sensations out of the ordinary are pranic energy flow, unless you are cutting off blood supply to your organ in siddhasana. That has been discussed already -- not the end of the world for short periods, but not something you want to be doing constantly.
You did not mention sambhavi. It is a companion to mulabandha. The two practices cover both ends of the sushumna for aiding spinal breathing in cultivating and balancing the energies in the spinal nerve and throughout the entire nervous system.
You did not mention kechari either -- not necessarily going for a higher stage right away -- just getting started in stage 1 -- tongue up to the roof of the mouth in spinal breathing for starters.
Don't load all of this extra stuff into meditation until it is happening there automatically as established habit. We do not divide our attention with any other practice in deep meditation. That is an important guideline.
I mention developing sambhavi and kechari (in spinal breathing) because, interestingly, it is the upper mudras that ultimately have the greatest influence on lower center (and all) openings -- one of those spiritual paradoxes. That is why we start mulabandha and sambhavi pretty much together once spinal breathing is stable. And siddhasana and kechari add to the simultaneous upper and lower cultivation. It is a sort of layering of increasing stimulation as and when we are ready.
Of course, all of this all depends on maintaining a good and unfettered routine of deep meditation, and the rise of inner silence it brings. It sounds like you have that end of it in good shape.
All the best on you path. Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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m_a_srini
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2006 : 12:57:32 PM
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Respected Guruji
Thank you for your previous response. I'll definitely add the sambhavi mudra and kechari during spinal breathing as per your advice. Also, I've been doing the various styles of pranayama for sometime now. Is it possible that I may be doing something wrong as so far I have not had any negative effects of the pranayama? Also, as far as sitting in Siddhasana how can I ensure that I have my heel against the perineum with the correct pressure so as to not affect my privates. How do I ensure that my heel is resting correctly on the perineum?
What are the feelings or sensations that I should be looking for and how can I tell whether it is a good sensation or a bad one?
Guruji you response is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance. |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2006 : 1:40:07 PM
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Hi again Srinivasan:
Well, a lack of negative symptoms is certainly not a sign of doing pranayama incorrectly. Progress with pranayama really depends on a well-rounded practice with deep meditation involved. It takes time, according to the process of purification occurring in the individual nervous system. "Progress" does not mean big chaotic energy releases that can disrupt our practice and our life. We are not looking for that. A "break through" strategy with too much breath retention (kumbhaka) will not be a stable path. It is, in fact, slower than a steady less dramatic unfoldment over the long term. So the advice is to aim for the long term rather than the short.
On siddhasana, the same goes -- just easy comfortable sitting. Nothing extreme. This can be aided by using back support on a soft surface for more comfort and better regulation of angle and pressure. Bringing the heel back a bit further toward the anus aids in control too. These means are not mandatory. Nothing is in AYP. Only suggested if better comfort and control are desired. Comfort in siddhasana makes the other sitting practices easier too.
As for what to look for in siddhasana -- some find ecstatic stimulation right away. For others, it takes a while. It is closely related to one's inclination toward tantric methods in general. Siddhasana is a tantric method, though is claimed by several branches of yoga that are non-tantric also. Well, all of yoga and tantra are coming from one place -- the human nervous system. No matter how we slice it, siddhasana is for regulated pre-orgasmic sexual stimulation in sitting practices. We each are free to find it, or not, according to our tendencies. Like pranayama, mudras and bandhas, the effects in siddhasana are dependent on the rise of inner silence in the nervous system. So it always comes back to daily meditation.
The guru is in you. (you may call me Yogani -- no special titles are necessary. Your appreciation of the knowledge is greatly appreciated here, so the admiration goes both ways.  )
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Juliet
43 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2006 : 3:18:07 PM
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Meg wrote: "I'd like to hear from some women on this. Do any of you experience any stimulation from siddhasana? Can you give me some advice? Specifically, where does your heel end up? Do you have any sexual sensations at the perineum? Thanks!!"
Meg -- I don't get too much from the heel, either. I get WAY more juice putting an energetic (not physical) "hand" placed gently touching back near the base of the spine. Like, just a thought there does more than a foot. Also good during the day.
Juliet
(sorry I don't know how you guys do the post quotes in the body of the reply text) |
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Questions on Siddhasana
