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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 07:18:08 AM
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Shri Yoganiji,
In a book by JZKnight, 'Ramtha' says that Kundalini can only be raised by their method of "C & E ". "People should be too naive to believe that it can be raised by just sitting around and doing meditation". Would you like to comment on this ? Or would any other member ? Thanks.
K.R.Chary |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 08:23:10 AM
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| Kundalini was awakened in my body from "just" meditating. The day it awoke, I was meditating on the part of my being that Is. |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 09:35:40 AM
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Details, Anthem, details? Maybe you indeed hold a royal flush, but C'mon, don't bait the man (or me either) like this!
newpov |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 10:45:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
In a book by JZKnight, 'Ramtha' says that Kundalini can only be raised by their method of "C & E ". "People should be too naive to believe that it can be raised by just sitting around and doing meditation". Would you like to comment on this ? Or would any other member ? Thanks.
Welcome K.R.Chary.
What is "C & E" method?
Did Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Paramahansa Yogananda, Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Nityananda all practice "C & E" method? Or does 'Ramtha' think they did not have an awakened kundalini?
Not trying to be cocky here.. maybe her definition of or use of the word kundalini is different from what we understand and maybe her 'C & E' method has something that would be comparable to what all the realized people have done... and something in AYP is similar to this "C & E" method. Just trying to understand. |
Edited by - Shanti on Nov 06 2008 11:03:43 AM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 11:55:23 AM
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Hi,
Sorry but this person is talking rubbish and probably is seeking either fame or money.I have had shaktipat twice and can categorically state that my Kundalini was awakened fully on the first time and so have many others around the world not only by my sadguru but also by many other guru's around the world.I agree with Shanti that this person may be mistaking something other than Kundalini.Many feel heat etc and think this is an awakening but it is not usually the case.
L&L
Dave |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 10:42:12 PM
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Hi newpov,
Not sure what kind of details you are looking for?
I think the important part to note from my perspective is that kundalini awakening is just another beginning point through the journey of life. We have all had many beginnings and none should be valued above others, they all mark equally important changes in life perspective. When the inner energies awaken, it marks a moment where again our perspective of life changes forever and in this case, it is a process of all the imaginary mental sand-castles that we have "built in the air" disintegrating to reveal a majestic view of reality where our hearts sing.
Don’t get me wrong, it is hardly a smooth rose filled path of euphoria. Many ups and downs like any other path, very, very difficult and exceedingly challenging at times.
It's also not like our hearts don't sing before that either. They do for most people every time they reach a goal or live a dream, the only problem is we soon realize that this kind of happy heart doesn't last very long so we eventually start looking elsewhere for something more permanent. One day we start to look inwards and so our quest for happiness continues, who knows when or where it will end?
What I am realizing these days is that awakenings can come to each of us at different stages along the road of our mental house-cleaning. I believe and this is just a theory, that when the experiences come earlier on, they are more dramatic and often harder to navigate, when they come later on, after lots of sitting practices, maybe we will hardly notice them? Even if they were dramatic in the initial stages, which was the case here, soon it becomes quiet and in the background and all that really matters is that we are moving towards more and more happiness (bliss) in our lives.
No one experience is important in the end though, even if it seems like the be-all-end-all. What matters most is that from our efforts each day, that we can look back a month or a year and notice that life has gotten a little smoother for us and that we are happier or quietly more blissful than we used to be.
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Edited by - Anthem on Nov 06 2008 11:03:24 PM |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 10:56:56 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 11:49:59 PM
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Thanks Everyone for your responses. I am falling in love with this forum, what with the lightning quick responses.Cheers to this forum and its devoted members.
JZKnight, who is a channel for "Ramtha" ( Washington-School of enlightenment), describes "Kundalini" without using the word, with an illustration showing all the 'Chakras". So I guess she means the same Kundalini as we do. The method, described in her set of 6 or 7 VCDs, mainly includes cupping of the hands in front of the mouth and blowing the breath out with intensity numerous times for several minutes everyday.
When I read what she says in a book recently, the same thought expressed by Shantiji, about Ramakrishna, Yogananda, etc. came to my mind !
A major difference between AYP and Ramtha is that Ramtha's teachings cost a penny, and people have to go to Washington twice a year to refresh the teachings, whereas AYP is free ! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4383 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2008 : 03:39:13 AM
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Hi krcqimpro1 and welcome to the forum.
The technique you describe above is a modified form of Kapal Bhati, and does not have much to do with the awakening of kundalini. Is this the only practice he has channeled? It doesn't sound like much for 7 video discs. What else is there?
Christi |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 02:56:46 AM
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Hi Christi,
The 7 videos mostly talk about how we ourselves are Gods and that each one of us is responsible for all of creation. In the practice of C&E( consciousness and energy), we are asked to make the sign of triangle with our hand, starting from the eyebrow centre, down to our left thigh, on to our right thigh and back to the forehead.( seated in sukhasana). Then the forceful breathing out through cupped hands. It is certainly not Kapalbhati. You may be able to get some details from their website through Google (School of enlightenment- washington)
Krish (krcqimpro1) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4383 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 04:28:10 AM
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Hi krcqimpro1
quote:
Then the forceful breathing out through cupped hands. It is certainly not Kapalbhati. You may be able to get some details from their website through Google (School of enlightenment- washington)
Kapalbhati is practiced by repeatedly breathing forcefully out of the nose, with a shallow in-breath.
This sounds similar to me, only out of the mouth instead of the nose?
Cupping the hands in front of the face would reduce oxygen intake and increase co2 intake during the practice.
If Ramtha ,or JZNight do not use the word "kundalini", then it is hard to refute their claim. If they are saying that "something" is raised only by the C&E method, but won't say what it is, then how can you refute that?
Christi
p.s. My kundalini was awakened only by meditation too.
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 3:06:09 PM
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I respectfully disagree with everything in this thread.
"Kundalini" is not a biological reality. It is more like delusions brought about through manipulating the breathing mechanism and using attention to concentrate on body parts to affect the heart rate. This may produce an altered state of consciousness, but if God is real and God created people to only know God in an altered state of consciousness that is deviant from the "norm" then why should normal people not "get it"?
Kundalini does not exist and nobody here can prove that it does. |
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solo
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 3:22:37 PM
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| I read a book that details about 8 or 9 ways for Kundalini to be raised from shaktipat to kriya yoga to spontaneous. I do not believe that there is one method and one method only. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 4:04:31 PM
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Hi gumpi
quote:
It is more like delusions brought about through manipulating the breathing mechanism and using attention to concentrate on body parts to affect the heart rate.
I never manipulated the breathing mechanism, never concentrated on any body part and certainly not even thought of my heart rate. And I hadn't even heard of Kundalini at the time!
Yet Kundalini awoke in this body. So it certainly is a biological reality for me.
The only practise I was doing at the time was meditation and self-inquiry. I had been meditating for many years when it awoke.
quote:
why should normal people not "get it"?
It happens to completely ordinary human beings, gumpi.
quote:
Kundalini does not exist and nobody here can prove that it does.
Lots of people here speak about their experience of it, gumpi.
However - the only proof that is valid is your own experience. Why would you care if someone proved it to you? What difference would that make - so long as you don't experience it?
It's like love. You can explain and explain about it......but what's the use of that....you have to experience love to understand love.
Meditation is a great tool.
Find out for yourself.
I wish you all the best!
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 4:06:56 PM
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Hi Solo
quote:
I read a book that details about 8 or 9 ways for Kundalini to be raised from shaktipat to kriya yoga to spontaneous. I do not believe that there is one method and one method only.
Yes - there are several ways it can awaken. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 7:52:05 PM
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quote:
gumpi: I respectfully disagree with everything in this thread.
"Kundalini" is not a biological reality. It is more like delusions brought about through manipulating the breathing mechanism and using attention to concentrate on body parts to affect the heart rate. This may produce an altered state of consciousness, but if God is real and God created people to only know God in an altered state of consciousness that is deviant from the "norm" then why should normal people not "get it"?
Kundalini does not exist and nobody here can prove that it does.
I decided to delete my previous post. (ego) 
Anyway, gumpi, like Katrine, my kundalini awoke and I knew nothing about it and wasn't seeking anything like it. So, anyway, it's not about the kundalini, but purification of the system so that there is peace and happiness. Anyway, your opinion is just as good as everyone elses.
Take care:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Nov 09 2008 6:22:27 PM |
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slenten
23 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2008 : 04:45:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I respectfully disagree with everything in this thread.
"Kundalini" is not a biological reality. It is more like delusions brought about through manipulating the breathing mechanism and using attention to concentrate on body parts to affect the heart rate. This may produce an altered state of consciousness, but if God is real and God created people to only know God in an altered state of consciousness that is deviant from the "norm" then why should normal people not "get it"?
Kundalini does not exist and nobody here can prove that it does.
Hi gumpi,
My meditation practice led to an ability to raise a current of energy from my perineum, amplified by my solar plexus to the top of my head. At first, it happened as I exhaled smoothly and automatically retained my breath as my meditation state deepened. Now, I can raise it with inhalations and with mental concentration alone. Like you, I suspected that kundalini was a fiction but my experience has proven otherwise. My experiences seem quite ordinary now, just an ability to manipulate energy at will; the attendant bliss and ecstasy become boring too. It's not god consciousness for me and I'm still not sure of its utility in that direction. It can be very strong and get in the way of exploring finer states of consciousness. The Menninger Foundation studied Swami Rama's abilities and verified that he had control of his autonomous nervous system. With the right kind of instruments and methodology, I suspect that Kundalini energy will be verified as well.
slenten. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2008 : 1:02:04 PM
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Ah, yes, just what in the world IS this "kundalini" anyway? I studied personally in ashram for several years with one of the spiritual lights of the 20th century, the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He never once, in all the time I studied with him, mentioned the word kundalini. I never heard the term, and we studied many ancient yogic texts with him. I did the yoga practices he taught me (basically, many of Yogani's AYP things) for 30 yeas, period, nothing more or less. In my early fifties, after several months of enforced celibacy (due to family medical circumstances), I too had a spontaneous kundalini awakening, never even having heard of kundalini! I came to gradually understand what was happening, and I did conclude a few things that are mistakenly believed about kundalini. I now understand that the breathing stuff--the so-called "breath of fire", all of that nonsense, is NOT cause but effect! I HAD all of the breathing things take hold of my physical body and just sort of happen to me, during the initial few hours of rising. It's not something you DO to make it happen, it's something that HAPPENS after it's begun. But since people have witnessed this effect, it has gotten associated as a way to make kundalini rise, rather than merely a side-effect of the rising. The other important misconception involves the relationship between kundalini and enlightenment. They are not necessarily related too directly. One can be enlightened without having kundalini awkwakened, and one can have kundalini awakened without being enlightened. One need not experience kundalini to experience god.
Michael |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4383 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2008 : 03:17:19 AM
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Hi Mikkiji
quote:
I now understand that the breathing stuff--the so-called "breath of fire", all of that nonsense, is NOT cause but effect! I HAD all of the breathing things take hold of my physical body and just sort of happen to me, during the initial few hours of rising. It's not something you DO to make it happen, it's something that HAPPENS after it's begun.
The breathing excercises like "breath of fire" are both cause and effect as far as kundalini is concerned. They lead to kundalini awakenings, and increase it's effect after an awakening, and they can happen spontaneously in the body because of an awakened kundalini.
quote:
The other important misconception involves the relationship between kundalini and enlightenment. They are not necessarily related too directly. One can be enlightened without having kundalini awkwakened, and one can have kundalini awakened without being enlightened. One need not experience kundalini to experience god.
It is possible to experience an aspect of God (pure bliss consciousness) without an awakened kundalini, but it cannot be sustained for too long. Ecstasy, and divine love cannot be experienced without kundalini being awakened.
Christi |
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yogani
USA
5197 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2008 : 12:21:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Ah, yes, just what in the world IS this "kundalini" anyway? I studied personally in ashram for several years with one of the spiritual lights of the 20th century, the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He never once, in all the time I studied with him, mentioned the word kundalini. I never heard the term, and we studied many ancient yogic texts with him. I did the yoga practices he taught me (basically, many of Yogani's AYP things) for 30 yeas, period, nothing more or less. In my early fifties, after several months of enforced celibacy (due to family medical circumstances), I too had a spontaneous kundalini awakening, never even having heard of kundalini! I came to gradually understand what was happening, and I did conclude a few things that are mistakenly believed about kundalini. I now understand that the breathing stuff--the so-called "breath of fire", all of that nonsense, is NOT cause but effect! I HAD all of the breathing things take hold of my physical body and just sort of happen to me, during the initial few hours of rising. It's not something you DO to make it happen, it's something that HAPPENS after it's begun. But since people have witnessed this effect, it has gotten associated as a way to make kundalini rise, rather than merely a side-effect of the rising. The other important misconception involves the relationship between kundalini and enlightenment. They are not necessarily related too directly. One can be enlightened without having kundalini awkwakened, and one can have kundalini awakened without being enlightened. One need not experience kundalini to experience god.
Michael
Hi Michael:
Each of the limbs of yoga are both cause and effect, and all of the limbs of yoga are interconnected within us. So one person's structured practice may be another person's symptom. Personally, I'd rather rely mainly on practices than on symptoms. That's why in AYP we favor the practice over the symptoms. And, as you know, we have plenty of practices.
I agree with you that kundalini of the dramatic symptomatic kind is not a prerequisite or ongoing feature of enlightenment. The drama of kundalini is purification (the friction of awakening energy passing through obstructions) and not the end result. However, the subtle characteristics of kundalini that evolve to permeate the neurobiology as ecstasy and the refinement of sensory perception are essential to enlightenment, as Christi points out. You may not call that kundalini. But it is, in fact, the eventual refinement of the flashy versions of kundalini that some people experience along their path. It is the emergence of our ecstatic nature, ultimately to be dissolved in stillness. In AYP we call it the rise of ecstatic conductivity. That and abiding inner silence (stillness, the witness) are the two pillars of enlightenment. The equation looks like this:
Stillness + Ecstasy = Unity (enlightenment)
In AYP, we use deep meditation for cultivating abiding inner silence (stillness).
Ecstasy (ecstatic conductivity/kundalini) is cultivated with spinal breathing and other pranayama methods (including kumbhaka), plus asanas, mudras, bandhas, and tantric sexual methods.
Rising stillness and ecstasy are blended together (in the equal sign), with samyama, karma yoga, and self-inquiry. Each of these finds its fruition when performed in stillness (presence of witness), which we call "relational" in AYP. The result is "divine radiance."
Bhakti (divine desire) plays an over-arching role in all of this. Bhakti is the fuel of all spiritual progress. Even the tiniest desire for growth contains all of these elements of unfoldment within it, and stimulates them directly.
Now, some will say that stillness is enlightenment, and others will say that ecstatic kundalini is enlightenment. The truth is that both together form enlightenment. It is the union of stillness (shiva) and ecstasy (shakti) which brings an unending outpouring of divine love and the unity experience in daily living, i.e., Oneness. In AYP we also call it "stillness in action."
This process is inherent in the human nervous system and is universal. Different paths emphasize different aspects of its development. In the end, all the bases will be covered. It is a natural process, once it gets going. Our job in daily yoga practices is to get it going and keep it going, without overdoing it (self-pacing). Then we come to know what it is by direct experience, right?
The guru is in you.
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 08:56:44 AM
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Yogani--yes, I get it now--thank you for the clarification.
Michael |
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mahabaratara
United Kingdom
92 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 5:51:42 PM
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Yogani just nails it everytime.
Thank you...
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 11:00:41 PM
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Hi Christi,
When I said 'cupping of the hands', what the visuals in the video show is this: the heel of the left hand is held touching the chin with the palm stretched out horizontally and facing up, while the heel of the right hand is held touching the side of the left hand, with fingertips facing vertically upwards. So there is no possibility of reduced oxygen intake.
Secondly, JZ Knight actually indicates how the "sexual energy", as she calls it,(pointing to the genital area) will rise upward, "plexus by plexus" till it reaches the top of the head. So there is no doubt she is referring to "kundalini". In the background, there is a visual showing the chakras clearly(the caduceus), and a picture of Shiva, with the serpent coiled round his neck.
Now that you mention it, it does seem like a different version of "kapala bhati". If kapalabhat alone can raise the kundalini, then it is quite believable. Thanks for your response.
Krish
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Christi
United Kingdom
4383 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 06:08:37 AM
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Hi Krish,
quote:
Secondly, JZ Knight actually indicates how the "sexual energy", as she calls it,(pointing to the genital area) will rise upward, "plexus by plexus" till it reaches the top of the head. So there is no doubt she is referring to "kundalini". In the background, there is a visual showing the chakras clearly(the caduceus), and a picture of Shiva, with the serpent coiled round his neck.
Well, if she is talking about the raising of kundalini, and she says that the only way it can be done is by this modified form of kapalbhati, then all I can say is that she is talking nonsense.
Christi |
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Propundit
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 11:23:27 AM
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Ramtha/JZ Knight was behind an interesting video called "What the Bleep!! Down the Rabbit Hole" - it was an interesting attempt at reconciling {religion and consciousness}with {quantum physics} and talked about meditation and in terms of scientific metaphors. The science was not always 100%, but it was an interesting movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_bleep
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