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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 26 2016 : 06:13:56 AM
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I think this thread can be misleading due to its title the content of some post, not sure. However in my opinion after so many years, the key question lies in the fact if a digital guru or digital esoterik server can offer the minimum threshold to teach, guide, heal the readers who would practice daily the meditation technique.
In the past, I did try practicing some AYP beginner lessons but did not work, not saying it is due to AYP because my problem is of another nature, one of them being to have read to many books, webpage which over-saturated or confused my mind.
I did meet some yoga teachers of different lineages and found also authentic ones are not so easy to find plus many do lot web marketing, do what I say but do not do what I do…
The web has brought incredible opportunities to restore ancient knowledge, offer quicker access to fundamental information and techniques but this has become also a business or place of many teaching but did not resolved some of their blockages.
For a few years now, I really do not feed any more my mind by reading new books or going to new forums because it is a friend and a foe. However I've been member of AYP forum for very long, I find the place to be unusual, safe and open minded to other systems of meditation with lot of tolerance. The only thing which has been lacking in my opinion, the choice of Yogani to stay invisible behind this forum, his book whereas at some point, it would be more grounding to meet.
I've witnessed recent yogis who were supposed to be very pure going down or falling, I suspect that we live in a critical time own in our planet where it is best to have a real close guru once we start to enter into deep healing work and karma detox. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2016 : 07:44:13 AM
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Hi Selfonlypath,
What you are talking about is something that has been coming up in AYP over the years. People have said that it is sometimes not easy to follow a path, without a teacher present in the room, to guide them. This is why we have set up the Teacher Training Programme, to begin next April. The plan is for people who need the support of a teacher, to be able to get that support.
Even if someone does not need a teacher to guide them, because they are able to follow the guidance from the lessons and the books, simply being able to join AYP classes and retreats to benefit from practising as part of a group, can have major benefits spiritually.
The truth is, that after 30 years of practising yoga, I have never met anyone, who has managed to become enlightened on their own, without a teacher and without support from others on the path. It has always happened with support and companionship, and usually with a large amount of support and companionship. I am sure this was the case for Yogani as well.
I can understand why Yogani has chosen to remain anonymous. Putting together the AYP writings, publishing the books and running the support networks, is a full time job for one person. And he was already retired before he started, more than 10 years ago!  We have a saying in England, that you cannot be all things to all people.
At the moment there are already many AYP teachers around the world, but they are spread out. So the chances of someone being able to find one nearby is small. The Teacher Training Programme is designed to build and expand on that. The hope is to one day have AYP teachers running classes and workshops and retreats, in every part of the world, so that everyone will have the opportunity to benefit from that, if they want to.
Christi
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2016 : 12:11:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
The truth is, that after 30 years of practising yoga, I have never met anyone, who has managed to become enlightened on their own, without a teacher and without support from others on the path. It has always happened with support and companionship, and usually with a large amount of support and companionship. I am sure this was the case for Yogani as well.
Personally I'd be interested to know from Yogani himself if he considers to have reached complete enlightment and if yes, was it feasible by his own meditation effort (alone) or required at some critical steps external teacher, guru.
Around my circles but also via my own little practice of yoga, it seems very easy to make one step forward and 10 steps backward at some point in the process. The deeper we go into unlocking hidden inconscious into super-consiousness state, it works like mathematics of 1/0 hence becoming infinity with many traps, temptations and more. So probably only real guru who was able to go through this key vital process can eventually help a disciple, not sure this is feasible by digital guru.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4382 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2016 : 6:11:04 PM
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Hi Selfonlypath,
quote:
Personally I'd be interested to know from Yogani himself if he considers to have reached complete enlightment and if yes, was it feasible by his own meditation effort (alone) or required at some critical steps external teacher, guru.
Only Yogani could answer that, and maybe he will? Although he is much more active in the AYP Plus forum these days than here.
Yogani has written about this subject quite a few times. He has explained that there is no such thing as "final enlightenment". That is simply an idea in the mind. He has explained that actually enlightenment is not a destination, a place that you will one day arrive at. It becomes more of a process of letting go. See this lesson:
Lesson 120 - Q&A – “Getting enlightenment”
He has also spoken about it in the following lesson addition:
"While a person may reach a condition of "Oneness," what we call "Unity" in AYP, this can be regarded as final enlightenment only by those sages who choose to rest on their laurels. Good for them. It is enlightenment in isolation.
No. There is much more. Enlightenment will not be complete until all of humanity (and the entire cosmos) is self-aware in Oneness. A seemingly impossible task, yes? Nevertheless, Oneness cannot truly be Oneness until all have been brought home to That. The urge for this is what drives sages forward. It is the power of divine love, and we see it in all who serve for the benefit of others." [Yogani] from: Lesson addition 120.1- The "Gold Standard" for Determining Enlightenment.
The book on Liberation also covers this subject in more detail.
Basically, beyond a certain stage the process of spiritual awakening becomes less about "what can I attain?", or "when will I get there?" and more about "What can I do for others?", even as we see those others increasingly, as aspects of our own true nature.
I doubt that Yogani would talk about his own teachers (but who knows? ). Nearly all (if not all) of the AYP practices, are traditional yogic practices, that have been used by spiritual seekers for a long time. So he must have learned them from someone! Or more likely from several someones?
On the subject of rising into the super-conscious state (beyond the mind), yes there are traps and temptations that come on the way. But there are also certain strengths that come too, which mean that we can steer away from the traps that arise. The more we get out of the way, the more grace comes in and takes over the process (sadhana). The sadhana becomes less of a "doing" and more of an "undoing", and then the traps and potential pitfalls become much less.
As we progress on the path, certainly we need a teacher, or teachers who have already been through the stage that we are at. If they haven't been through it already, then they would not be able to offer much in the way of useful advice. I am sure that is why so many are drawn to the AYP writings, as Yogani has clearly navigated through all the various stages that people encounter on the way.
Are there limits to books and online resources? Yes, I am sure there are. Are there limits to what real world teachers can offer? Yes, there are too. So it is a case of taking the best we can from every situation and making as much progress as we are able to.
It is possible! If it wasn't, there would be no enlightened people in the world.
There is a saying, that when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. In my own experience this has proved to be true many times over. So more than anything else, it is about continuously making ourselves ready, and trusting that the teacher will be there when we need them.
Christi |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2016 : 8:42:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Basically, beyond a certain stage the process of spiritual awakening becomes less about "what can I attain?", or "when will I get there?" and more about "What can I do for others?", even as we see those others increasingly, as aspects of our own true nature.
Precisely.  |
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Student-of-life
Germany
16 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2016 : 11:00:20 AM
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It was wonderful reading through all these nice posts in this thread.
I've only started practicing AYP three months ago, but I'm quite happy with it. Before this, I've meditated for about five years, but the AYP system has introduced a fantastic framework and a lot of important theory about why it is necessary to do certain things in one's meditation practice. At the moment, I'm doing spinal pranayam and after wards mantra meditation, as outlined in the AYP book. And I'm perfectly happy with it.
Before practicing along the lines of the AYP system I was able to enter the fascinating state of samadhi once or twice a year, but it always resulted in energy problems. But now that I practice the AYP system, I feel that the energy is a lot better balanced throughout the body. If that makes sense.
But yes, I'm so happy that I have discovered AYP, however, I am often a little bit irritated, which is why I have to self-pace myself. |
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Dogboy
USA
2207 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2016 : 1:49:26 PM
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Welcome, student of life (aren't we all? ). Acquiring the knowledge of balancing silence and energy, and the experience accumulated by dedicated practice goes a long way to keeping overload at bay. Thanks for sharing! |
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Blanche
USA
861 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2016 : 08:00:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Student-of-life
It was wonderful reading through all these nice posts in this thread.
But yes, I'm so happy that I have discovered AYP, however, I am often a little bit irritated, which is why I have to self-pace myself.
Hello, Student-of-life!
Nice to meet you here, in the forum, and to hear that AYP is working for you.
If you feel irritated at times, make sure you rest without a mantra at the end of the meditation. The practice can dislodge a lot of impurities, and they need time to work themselves out and allow the nervous system to settle down. Also, get plenty of sleep at night. The process of spiritual transformation is supported by a rested body.
Best wishes  |
Edited by - Blanche on Oct 04 2016 09:16:56 AM |
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Blanche
USA
861 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2016 : 08:36:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
Personally I'd be interested to know from Yogani himself if he considers to have reached complete enlightment and if yes, was it feasible by his own meditation effort (alone) or required at some critical steps external teacher, guru.
Around my circles but also via my own little practice of yoga, it seems very easy to make one step forward and 10 steps backward at some point in the process. The deeper we go into unlocking hidden inconscious into super-consiousness state, it works like mathematics of 1/0 hence becoming infinity with many traps, temptations and more. So probably only real guru who was able to go through this key vital process can eventually help a disciple, not sure this is feasible by digital guru.
Patanjali says that one mind does not illuminate another one (4.21). That means, each of us has to do the spiritual practice to awaken/enlighten/liberate. A guru is only a catalyst, a facilitator, a supportive presence pointing to the path, but he/she cannot do our work. Sooner or later, spiritual teachers encourage their students to leave and find their own path. Patanjali does not say that an external guru is a necessary condition for awakening.
It takes one to know one. That is, as we purify our nervous system, we become more aware of the reality, and more likely to recognize a teacher when we meet one. I wonder if this is the reason for the saying "when the student is ready, the teacher appears." Yogani is a real teacher, and he follows in a long tradition of anonymous yoga teachers. He has offered his knowledge, experience, financial support, time. I would love to meet him, but if he wants to remain anonymous, I understand and respect that.
In the meantime, let's keep up the practice! |
Edited by - Blanche on Oct 04 2016 10:19:05 AM |
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Student-of-life
Germany
16 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2016 : 02:40:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
Welcome, student of life (aren't we all?). Acquiring the knowledge of balancing silence and energy, and the experience accumulated by dedicated practice goes a long way to keeping overload at bay. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Dogboy! Indeed, we are all students of life ;-)) Thanks for welcoming me to the forum. You're right, there's still a lot of work to do. But I'm happy to take one step after the other.
quote:
Originally posted by Blanche
Hello, Student-of-life!
Nice to meet you here, in the forum, and to hear that AYP is working for you.
If you feel irritated at times, make sure you rest without a mantra at the end of the meditation. The practice can dislodge a lot of impurities, and they need time to work themselves out and allow the nervous system to settle down. Also, get plenty of sleep at night. The process of spiritual transformation is supported by a rested body.
Best wishes
Nice to meet you too, Blanche!
Thanks for these important tips. Roughly 3 months ago, I began resting for a while after meditation, thanks to the great advice of AYP members. But considering your reply, I think I should increase that resting time a little. Thanks a lot for making me aware of this.
It's also great that you mention I need to sleep a lot. I really wondered why I had this increasing demand for sleep. So I guess I'll schedule more sleeping time.
All the best ;-) |
Edited by - Student-of-life on Oct 06 2016 05:23:41 AM |
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Blanche
USA
861 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2016 : 08:43:36 AM
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Everything, sleep included, is a matter of balance. Most people need about 8 hours of sleep, so if you sleep only 6 hours, you might want to try to sleep a little more (there is a lot of research showing that in our days people do not get enough sleep). If you sleep 9 hours, you might want to cut down on sleep, and look for other ways to get rest if needed. As with any change of habit, it will take about two weeks to get used to a new sleeping schedule.
Best wishes! |
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