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LordBuzzKill
Canada
171 Posts |
 Posted - May 08 2015 : 01:41:27 AM
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Hi,
I find very little info on Belly Breathing here. I know how to do, I have been doing it for well over a decade now. I find belly breathing very relaxing and that is how I relax and let go.
Lately I have noticed that when I am relaxing, reading a book, or just thinking. My mind automatically goes into belly breathing and my thoughts slow down and reduce in quantity. Sometimes I stop thinking all together and just end up staring at the monitor or something. Then I realize that I am just sitting there and doing absolutely nothing at all and my head is clear of thoughts as well. It feels that I just woke up from a dream while I was awake already. It is like I just stop existing or something. My awareness of the world just stops and there is nothing!
Is it ok for my mind to just turn off? I feel like a computer that was just turned off and no more thoughts. Until something in the real world gets my attention somehow.
What I would like to know is the Benefits of Belly Breathing and any side effects it may have.
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Edited by - AYPforum on May 08 2015 05:49:10 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2015 : 05:48:43 AM
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Hi LordBuzzKill
To my knowledge, belly breathing is not a yogic think. It is of taoist origin.
Yoga is more concerned with complete breathing - using the full capacity of the thorax and abdomen.
I've not heard of any side effects of belly breathing apart from - if you're really very serious about it - developing a pot belly.  I used to know a kung-fu practitioner who was heavily into it. He was talking about boiling an egg over the duration of just one breath. He was a slim man but did have a pot belly. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2015 : 05:49:10 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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LordBuzzKill
Canada
171 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2015 : 05:56:39 AM
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Hi BlueRaincoat
Wow really, you have to use your thorax as well? I was always taught that you should never use your thorax to breath.
I don't ever remember this being ever mentioned in AYP. Did I miss something?
Makes me wonder which yoga system I got belly breathing from.... I know kung fu has it, which I did practice for a decade just for the health benefits, until I started doing my own system. |
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NoDogma
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2015 : 12:20:46 AM
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LBK,
thanks for opening this topic.
By 'belly breathing' do you mean diaphragmatic breathing ? As far as I know, diaphragmatic is the recommended breathing (unless you're doing aerobic workout, climbing mountain ..) and is supposed to calm mind. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2015 : 03:25:58 AM
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quote:
Wow really, you have to use your thorax as well? I was always taught that you should never use your thorax to breath.
Hi LBK,
Yes, Blue is right, the thorax is used as well as the belly in yoga pranayama practice. This would be true for Spinal Breathing Pranayama, Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka, Dynamic Jalandara, Spinal Bastrika, Anuloma Viloma, etc. It is sometimes called "full yogic breathing".
Here are the instructions for breathing during Spinal Breathing Pranayama practice from lesson 41:
"Sit comfortably with back support, and close your eyes just as you do when you meditate. Now, keeping your mouth closed, breathe in and out slowly and deeply through your nose, but not to the extreme. Be relaxed and easy about it, breathing as slowly and deeply as possible without discomfort. There is no need to be heroic. Work your muscles so each breath begins in your belly and fills you up through your chest to the top of your collarbones, and then comes back down slowly."
I would recommend the same for asana practice if the breathing needs to be deep for a particular asana. For meditation the breath should be natural and relaxed as we need to be focussing on the mantra rather than on how we are breathing.
How you breath outside of practices is really up to you and breathing into the belly is recommended in Taoist traditions as well as some Buddhist traditions. I have never heard of any negative side effects from breathing in this way.
All the best,
Christi |
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LordBuzzKill
Canada
171 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2015 : 3:33:48 PM
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Nodogma,
Yes I am talking about diaphragmatic breathing.
Just like Yogani I have explored many things. Which eventually led me here to AYP. I used to be a Buddhist. Now I follow the path of yoga, I like it because its more to my liking. Just my feeling.
Christi,
As long as we are talking about it, filling up naturally and not actually trying to lift our chest then yes I had been doing that too. When I would take naturally slow deep breaths, I can feel it filling up all the way to the top.
What I was thinking was, that you actually have to force lift your chest up, as some people do when they are breathing incorrectly. |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2015 : 10:27:04 PM
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Hi LBK,
As you confirmed, Belly Breathing is diaphragmatic breathing or abdominal breathing. This type of breathing uses the movement of the diaphragm to fill and empty the lungs. It is supposed to be the best breathing in regular life. It is said that babies breathe abdominally, but most of the adults breathe "on the chest," using the intercostal muscles to expand the lungs, and employing a very small amount of the lung capacity.
Yoga tradition puts a strong accent on breathing techniques. Controlling the breathing is a mean to controlling the mind. As you notice, simply bringing your attention to the breath slows it down, and consequentially it slows down the mind. When the mind slows down, there is a space in which your other dimension of being starts to come in.
It is said that superficial breathing habits are the cause of many ailments, and that 10 complete breaths every day bring great benefits. Christi gives you the exact description of a complete breathing cycle:
1. abdominal breathing - fill the lower part of the lungs, by pulling down the diaphragm; if you keep a hand on your belly, you feel it raising.
2. chest breathing - fill the middle part of the lungs with air, by gently pulling apart the ribs; if you keep a hand on the chest, you feel it raising.
3. shoulder breathing - fill the upper part of the lungs with air; the shoulders raise gently.
Then you expel the air in the reverse order:
4. shoulders
5. chest
6. abdomen.
Another way to promote health is by making sure you breathe abdominally most of the time. It sounds like you, LBK, are doing this already. If anyone wants to try to this breathing, the procedure is simple: While relax, place a hand on your abdomen. Make sure that with each breath, the belly goes gently up and down. Be aware of the movement of the diaphragm, this powerful muscle that stretches under the ribs, separating the thorax from abdomen. Repeat this exercise every now and then over the next couple of days. Your body will quickly re-learn to breathe using the diaphragm. Bonus points: If your doctor ever checks the level of oxygen in blood, he/she will be surprised to find it 100% or close to it - not so often seen in adults. |
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LordBuzzKill
Canada
171 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2015 : 12:10:29 AM
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Blanche
Exactly how does one use their intercostal muscles to breath with their chest? I have injured my intercostal muscles and I want to know how I can strengthen them. When ever I laugh or turn my torso in some ways it hurts around my rib cage area. |
Edited by - LordBuzzKill on May 10 2015 03:50:49 AM |
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NoDogma
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2015 : 01:08:02 AM
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Kristi and Blanche,
This is interesting. The diaphragm breathing I've learned emphasizes on not significantly expanding the chest and also not raising the shoulders. You breathe in till upper part of chest fills but not to the point of expanding chest too much and there is hardly any movement in shoulders. The spinal breathing part of the Kriya that I am following also mentions this.
and it helps me in yodeling too :-)
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Dogboy
USA
2201 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2015 : 07:14:11 AM
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quote:
it helps me in yodeling too :-)
...and for all you dogboys and girls out there, howling at the full moon  |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2015 : 07:34:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NoDogma
Kristi and Blanche,
This is interesting. The diaphragm breathing I've learned emphasizes on not significantly expanding the chest and also not raising the shoulders. You breathe in till upper part of chest fills but not to the point of expanding chest too much and there is hardly any movement in shoulders. The spinal breathing part of the Kriya that I am following also mentions this.
and it helps me in yodeling too :-)
Hi NoDogma,
The previous post described two types of breathing:
1. Complete breathing, that goes through a cycle, filling the lungs with air from bottom to top, and then expelling the air from top to bottom. Do 10 rounds of "full yogic breathing" every day. After you master it, use it in spinal breathing, jalandara, yoni mudra, etc. (see Christi's post).
2. Abdominal breathing, that uses the diaphragm for breathing; it does not use the chest/intercostal muscles = you are right, when you breathe abdominally, your chest moves very little, just as you learnt. Abdominal breathing is only a fraction of the "full yogic breathing."Use this breathing for the regular life.
All this should definitely improve yodeling. In fact, I think I hear something ... 
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Edited by - Blanche on May 10 2015 07:43:11 AM |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2015 : 07:51:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by LordBuzzKill
Blanche
Exactly how does one use their intercostal muscles to breath with their chest? I have injured my intercostal muscles and I want to know how I can strengthen them. When ever I laugh or turn my torso in some ways it hurts around my rib cage area.
Hi LBK,
What did you do to hurt your intercostal muscles? Sometimes I feel them sore after vigurous asanas or nauli kriya, and a couple of days of rest is all it takes to feel better. Yes, I feel these muscles when I turn/twist and/or laugh. Give these muscles a break if they are sore, then use them wisely with awareness to strenghten them.
The intercostal muscles are situated between the ribs. Put your palms flat on the sides of the ribcage, and do a cycle of complete yogic breathing. You will feel how the ribs pull apart gently and the ribcage expands a little, then later in the cycle the ribs come closer together and the ribcage comes back to the resting position - your intercostal muscles are doing this work. Does this make sense?
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LordBuzzKill
Canada
171 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2015 : 1:03:30 PM
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Blanche
I got hurt long time ago when I was a kid. Fell on my ass from about a height of 1 story. You know kids climbing on everything. So years down the road school, work, computers at home and other back injuries they all add up. I have a lower back and upper back injury. Upper back injury is mainly between the shoulder blades and in around that area. Right now I am recovering and doing rehab workouts to help it heal.
So for my lower back I have to squeeze my waist muscles to help strengthen the muscles for my tailbone or its going to be a long and painful day. Think of it as getting ready to take a punch to the gut, that's what I hold for 5 seconds and 40 reps to help release the pain on the tail bone. From what I understood, my physiotherapist said because of that and some other injuries now my intercostal muscles hurt. It all start for the intercostal muscles when I hurt my back between the shoulder blades around the time of January this year.
I had injured my upper back multiple times over the years.
Who knew a bad bed can hurt your back so much. Got a new one now but the damage was done and I had no idea. All my damage is on the muscles primarily. So I just need to rehabilitate them and I am good to go. That's where I am right now. I can only sleep on my back for about 5-6 hours or the pain is too much. Good thing I am not working right now and will be going to college in September so I have time to fix it.
Rehab is helping but I need to find my pace and keep at it. I move forward just a little too much and back to square 1. My upper back is so weak that I do 2 reps of 5 seconds and anything beyond that is too much. I would like to know how to workout my intercostal muscles. I know where they are, just found that out a few months ago. Now I am trying to figure out what's an easy and safe way to work them out. |
Edited by - LordBuzzKill on May 10 2015 1:05:44 PM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1730 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2015 : 2:33:34 PM
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Hi LordBuzzKill
quote:
Originally posted by LordBuzzKill
I would like to know how to workout my intercostal muscles. I know where they are, just found that out a few months ago. Now I am trying to figure out what's an easy and safe way to work them out.
I would work gently with the breadth to get the intercostal muscles back in order. You don't need to work those muscles voluntarily, they work naturally during the breathing process - as you probably know, on the inbreath they contract and move the rib cage upwards and out; on the outbreath they relax.
Suddenly putting a lot of power into breathing doesn't seem like a good idea since the muscles are already strained/injured. I would apply the same principle that is so commonly used in yoga: work at the limit of your comfort without ever crossing it. Use your awareness to find that edge.
Go through the process of yogic breathing as described above i.e. fill the abdomen and thorax from the bottom up. Breathe in as deeply as you possibly can without crossing the comfort limit. If it hurts, come down a notch. Keep doing that every day, and you will notice the comfort limit moves further and further - the muscles get a gentle work out every day, they become a little stronger every day. In time, you will be able to take deeper and deeper breaths without strain.
Also it sounds like you could benefit from a program of gentle asanas to strengthen your back muscles. Probably best to find an experienced asana teacher in your area to help you with that.
All the best. |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on May 10 2015 2:38:15 PM |
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LordBuzzKill
Canada
171 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2015 : 2:59:54 PM
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Thanks BlueRaincoat,
I have a set of workouts I was given to do for my back. I just need to get in the comfort zone like you said and move ahead slow.
update-wording |
Edited by - LordBuzzKill on May 11 2015 4:23:56 PM |
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Blanche
USA
859 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2015 : 06:52:23 AM
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Excellent advice, BlueRaincoat!
LBK, gentle workout of the muscle, without getting to pain, is the best way. Then follow the medical advice to avoid hurting your back. Also, ask you physical therapist if swim is good for you - people are often unaware that swimming uses mostly the back muscles. Getting a stronger back might offer a better support for your spine and ribs, and hopefully alleviate pain. Best wishes for you and your practice! |
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LordBuzzKill
Canada
171 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2015 : 4:24:51 PM
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| For now no swimming, later for sure. Thanks Blanche |
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Belly Breathing
