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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 24 2014 : 7:30:45 PM
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Do you find bliss distracting? If so, read on.
I've had issues with bliss from the beginning. I find it distracting; it's hard to let go into silence when the greatest ecstacy the human body is capable of keeps showering you (many years ago, I asked Yogani about it).
I find that silence is easily available even with dogs barking or sirens wailing - even when I'm hungry or when life's got me down - the only thing capable of distracting me is bliss. And the big problem is that increasing silence increases bliss. It's like a Chinese finger trap; the further you go, the more stuck you get.
It's standard in yoga (and I believe Yogani himself suggests it in one of his lessons) that if automatic yoga movements get out of hand, you can simply release an intent for it to stop, and it usually does. Similarly, I discovered fairly early on that you can also release an intent for bliss to disperse....and it usually does (it's funny how ardent prayer for, say, a new camera or a job promotion is an iffy proposition, yet these sorts of requests are so diligently accommodated!).
But you need to keep repeating that intention, or the bliss rebuilds. And it was disruptive to my practices to constantly attend to this. So for years, I've simply plunged in, trying not to get distracted - sometimes with more success than others.I considered the bliss to be the ultimate "test" of the sincerity and depth of my desire to let go (which matches up well with the concept of "koshas", if that's something you're into).
Today I figured out the trick. It came out of my musing about how bliss is wasted on yogis. We develop equanimity, so we really don't need the opiates! The world, by contrast, is full of grim, pained, grasping people who could use some relief! So this morning, before practices, I released an intention not only to disperse my bliss, but to let it go - however thinly spread! - to anyone/anything in the world that might possibly make use of it (including people I don't know or even like!). I didn't think about it much; I just let the four winds handle it. Not my job!
Understand this: I don't imagine myself to be a vast spiritual furnace capable of "saving" the world or anything like that. I don't have such newbie delusions at this point. I accept that whatever I'm donating is ridiculously inadequate for changing, really, anything. But merely that spirit of "donation", attached to my intention to disperse, seems to be the magical combo. The smoke disappeared, just like that. No more of the moaning and writhing and drama.
And I don't seem to have to keep reminding myself, either (it may help that I always do my practices in a general spirit of "donation", anyway...without any conscious recipient, or, again, delusions that what I have to donate is anything special. I imagine this might be what Christian "faith" is about).
Perhaps this will help someone out there someday. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 24 2014 8:43:01 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2014 : 8:37:39 PM
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Very interesting. I, too, blindly disperse the bliss without any particular objects. Into the field, as it were. It's a letting go and a non-doing. I also will visualize a holographic diamond vortex that is drawing in suffering from the local area, while simultaneously emitting serenity (comparable to the Buddhist practice tonglen). I have found this to be key in tight situations of volatility, and again, it's not something I try hard to do, but rather seems to arise on its own accord. I just have to cooperate with the template.
But, for me, what keeps coming back as a more precise solution is bringing the bliss into physicality, and that includes playing music. It just flows into the hands and keep pushing for more dexterity and depth. This is also simultaneously grounding, in addition to mitigating overloads. Also, allowing kriyas, or what I call "free movement", to unfold, is very relieving. The shift is from rigidity to fluidity.
Thanks for sharing. The outpouring sounds like it has an angle of 360 degrees.  |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2014 : 8:48:45 PM
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"The outpouring sounds like it has an angle of 360 degrees"
Yes, but, as with all this stuff, there's a trap if you try to assure that it does. If you try to make rather than let, you're back to holding on, and there will always be unintended consequences and complications.
I periodically remind myself that even god (who's presumably way more competent at making stuff happen than I am!) chose to LET there be light. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2014 : 8:51:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Yes, but, as with all this stuff, there's a trap if you try to assure that it does. If you try to make rather than let, you're back to holding on, and there will always be unintended consequences and complications.
I periodically remind myself that even god (who's presumably way more competent at making stuff happen than I am!) chose to LET there be light.
Well said. Undoing the doer.  |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2014 : 9:06:15 PM
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quote:
Undoing the doer
That is, of course, a doing.
That's the paradox of sadhana. Any effort to let go unavoidably involves a holding on (i.e. to a need to let go). This is precisely why so many wise people insist that sadhana is counter-productive.
I have a practice I do at the end of each session. For a minute or so, as I relax (dovetailing into my post-practice rest period), I have a strict practice of Not Letting Go. Not surrendering. Not seeking. I just relax all those muscles. I fully realize that this, too, is a doing, but it's the most refined I'm able to manage.
As a child, by contrast, I had a facility for entirely escaping this sticky wicket, but I lost touch with it, hence years of yoga. And the child within has been giggling at my efforts the entire way. But not entirely disapprovingly (recognizing that everyone deserves a hobby!) |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2014 : 9:37:50 PM
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| LOL. Nice! Anytime we try to pin down the mystery with words, it eludes us. Non-duality embraces duality. Letting go is balanced by holding on. Every moment has its demand. Surfing on the crest of the moment, the demand is met. Whether we categorize that surfing as doing or non-doing is of minor importance in comparison to the experiential quality of the moment itself, which can only be felt subjectively. When there is tranquil resonance and zero suffering, the struggle has evaporated, and liberation is present. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2014 : 12:37:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
(many years ago, I asked Yogani about it).
I enjoyed reading Yogani's response to the question Jim offered many years ago, cited above (Lesson 285). To fully appreciate Yogani's answer, I find it important to attend to his use of terminology, specifically, the terms "bliss" and "ecstasy." Lesson 113 clarifies how Yogani uses these terms. http://www.aypsite.org/113.html
Ecstasy: "...we get lost in a reverie of pleasure. 'Overwhelming rapturous delight' is a good a description for it. ...the result of prana ravishing us in delicious ways..."
Bliss: "It comes up as a pleasant, peaceful silence, a sort of unending inner smile, if you will."
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2014 : 12:42:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
"The outpouring sounds like it has an angle of 360 degrees"
Yes, but, as with all this stuff, there's a trap if you try to assure that it does. If you try to make rather than let, you're back to holding on, and there will always be unintended consequences and complications.
I periodically remind myself that even god (who's presumably way more competent at making stuff happen than I am!) chose to LET there be light.
But the wise men did years of sadhana anyway to finally realize that it is indeed counter-productive  |
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Dogboy
USA
2202 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2014 : 3:38:09 PM
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I am at the stage where I toggle between bliss/ecstasy, many times within the same sitting, which indeed can be a distraction. I have been experimenting with solar centering and intention to smoothen things out, with some success. I imagine a release valve at that center where energy can circulate and release during DM. When I slip into samyama, the sutras exit there too. It helps having Love, Radiance, and Unity the first three sutras as they have a physical resonance in my solar center.
quote:
I have a practice I do at the end of each session. For a minute or so, as I relax (dovetailing into my post-practice rest period), I have a strict practice of Not Letting Go. Not surrendering. Not seeking. I just relax all those muscles. I fully realize that this, too, is a doing, but it's the most refined I'm able to manage.
I too have a practice at the end of a sit. After releasing "I thought who am I?" I completely surrender to the effervescence of the response, then bow forward and put my third eye on the floor. This humble stance feels very grounding to my system. I stay there until my perineum stops fluttering and the energy dies down. I am confident this action keeps overload at bay. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2014 : 5:22:33 PM
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Hi Dogboy and all,
During Deep Meditation practice there is no need to be concerned by the presence of ecstasy or bliss. All you do is to keep following the procedure of the meditation practice which is to return to the mantra every time you realize you are off it. If you are distracted by feelings such as ecstasy or bliss, you just return to the mantra every time you realize you have become distracted. Gradually the ecstasy and bliss will merge together to take you to the next stage of yoga which is the presence of unity and divine love, or Christ Consciousness as Yogani calls it.
When bliss and ecstasy are merging in the body, we come into a spontaneous state of advaita (non-duality) and samadhi becomes very easy and natural (sahaja). Gradually the heart expands way beyond the body and becomes the center from which we function as love in the world. So far from being distractions, ecstasy and bliss become known as enlightenment factors and we learn how to welcome them when they come and we learn how to practice in a state of ecstatic bliss.
Good things are happening. 
What is the end game in yoga?
Christi |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2014 : 7:41:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
Ecstasy: "...we get lost in a reverie of pleasure. 'Overwhelming rapturous delight' is a good a description for it. ...the result of prana ravishing us in delicious ways..."
Bliss: "It comes up as a pleasant, peaceful silence, a sort of unending inner smile, if you will."
Thanks, bewell, indeed, under Yogani's definition, I'm talking about ecstasy.
15 years or so ago, when I sent that email to Yogani, ecstasy roared 24/7. Now, daily life isn't distracted with that; it's way more bliss than ecstasy. However, during practices, as I purify deeper and deeper nooks and crannies, ecstasy still happens (and relaxing into that result is, itself, purification, and therefore yields greater ecstasy...hence my analogy to a Chinese finger trap). It's the unavoidable side effect of purification (it's like the fragrant smoke of the process of mantra dissolving deeply buried micro-clenches). To the best of my knowledge, there is no end to purification, because it is ultimately non-personal. If the smoke dissipates, it means you're no longer dissolving anything (perhaps because you've convinced yourself you've reached some imagined state of perfection...a sad head trip).
Fortunately, it's possible to make bliss non-personal, as well. Just will it so...and then DONATE it, non-purposefully :) |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 26 2014 7:46:05 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2014 : 9:25:24 PM
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I think Jim is on the right track when it comes unending purification. Yogani once wrote in a forum post that he never met a plateau that didn't eventually refine into an even deeper plateau. Similarly, if we consider the fundamental pattern of a spiral, we see that the circles revolve around a singular, central point, which must be infinite. The closer one gets to the central point, the closer one gets to the infinite. The boundary conditions surrounding the center are the obstructions to be dissolved, but the real question is: who can capture an exact end or beginning of the event horizon where finite transmutes into infinite?
The inherent mystery within the core of Being/Non-Being is beyond attainment, but we must strive, nevertheless.
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled."
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Dogboy
USA
2202 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2014 : 10:07:45 PM
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Thanks Christi.
quote:
During Deep Meditation practice there is no need to be concerned by the presence of ecstasy or bliss. All you do is to keep following the procedure of the meditation practice which is to return to the mantra every time you realize you are off it. If you are distracted by feelings such as ecstasy or bliss, you just return to the mantra every time you realize you have become distracted. Gradually the ecstasy and bliss will merge together to take you to the next stage of yoga which is the presence of unity and divine love, or Christ Consciousness as Yogani calls it.
"Distracted" might have been a poor word choice on my part as I rarely lose the mantra and go deep rather easily.
quote:
Gradually the heart expands way beyond the body and becomes the center from which we function as love in the world.
Since discovering my ishta, I feel I'm swimming in this pool. So I guess good things are happening! The Solar Centering is more about steering energy from my head. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2014 : 01:38:13 AM
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| Solar Centering...is...da...bomb-diggity. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4380 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2014 : 12:09:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
Thanks Christi.
quote:
During Deep Meditation practice there is no need to be concerned by the presence of ecstasy or bliss. All you do is to keep following the procedure of the meditation practice which is to return to the mantra every time you realize you are off it. If you are distracted by feelings such as ecstasy or bliss, you just return to the mantra every time you realize you have become distracted. Gradually the ecstasy and bliss will merge together to take you to the next stage of yoga which is the presence of unity and divine love, or Christ Consciousness as Yogani calls it.
"Distracted" might have been a poor word choice on my part as I rarely lose the mantra and go deep rather easily.
quote:
Gradually the heart expands way beyond the body and becomes the center from which we function as love in the world.
Since discovering my ishta, I feel I'm swimming in this pool. So I guess good things are happening! The Solar Centering is more about steering energy from my head.
Hi Dogboy,
Yes, using solar centering to move energy away from the head is a good use of the practice.
Everything sounds like it is going according to some divine plan.
Christi
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2014 : 2:57:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Solar Centering...is...da...bomb-diggity.
Those who don't want to put quite so much attention there might try what I term "Solar Light"
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2015 : 2:33:18 PM
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Expanding on my first posting, above (note: I'll switch here to Yogani's terminology, and call this "ecstasy" rather than "bliss")...here's another way of saying it:
If you're experiencing ecstasy, you will have noticed that the suffering people experience in day-to-day life is voluntary. Pain's unavoidable, but suffering is a learned behavior of focusing perspective to that state of mind. We let go of how we need everything to be - we let the universe simply be as it is - and even though nothing outward's changed, we're released from suffering in the blink of an eye. It's a change of perspective; the letting go of an old habit.
What I'm suggesting about ecstasy is a similar move. Just as we at some point saw past the habit/obsession underpinning our suffering, we can do likewise with ecstasy. Just release it from the bondage of your attention. Let it go, as just another "thing".
But it's got to be specific, not generalized. If you keep repeating the experience of general surrender which first brought the ecstasy (as you eventually must, as part of the process of spreading the surrendering into subtler, more unconscious pockets of internal clenching - i.e. "purification"), the ecstasy will keep swelling. Ecstasy is the cookie god gives us to show we're on the right track, and, like any other good thing, too much can be a problem (yoga can be seen as a technology for surrendering without choking on the cookies). The key seems to be: once ecstasy happens, before you continue and deepen the surrender experience, you need to consciously and specifically let the ecstasy go. Even if, like me, it's not something you'd ever clung to - even if you've considered it a distraction - it's nonetheless something that needs to be let go of.
I tried to transcend the entire issue via more and more surrender, but got caught in the "Chinese finger trap" of increasing ecstasy from deepening surrender. Rather than transcend the issue, you need to proactively release it.
And all you need to do is ask. God may not give you a Porsche or a promotion at work, even if you ask constantly. But this is a request that gets answered immediately. You've had enough cookie? You'd rather spread it out upon the four winds? Fine....*poof*.
It took me fifteen years to stumble upon this. There's a chance that had I tried it fifteen years earlier, it wouldn't have worked as well. But my hunch is that it would have. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 15 2015 3:15:07 PM |
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Bliss Management
